SE, Please Delete Scarlet Delirium

I'm replying to a statement you made, that's the point.

e.g. the "good crit ws" you named is not the best one they have.

Then you obviously aren't getting the main point than I'm making. Maybe I'll write it clearer for you to understand.

Your PUP has VS
A DRK has an overpowered crit WS that does over 9000 damage.

You and the DRK go to Abyssea and proc red & blue then come here and post the results.

Aside from aftermath from Vere and looking at WS only, Pummel is way better in Abyssea

All I was doing is making an example of jobs that already have powerful critical hit weapon skills that aren't used in Abyssea purely because they lack the tools to cover many red/blue proc - like WAR or NIN and MNK for blue have. PUP was just an example, much like DRG is too.

And for the main topic at hand, DRK is an extremely powerful job outside Abyssea, it's just that the people with tears down their faces complaining that it's not simply have no idea what they're doing with the job. Sure it would do with some tweaks but seriously, the people saying SE never do anything with DRK QQ cannot comprehend how powerful the RECENT LR update was.

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Originally Posted by Rearden

Aside from aftermath from Vere and looking at WS only, Pummel is way better in Abyssea

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Um, no, it's not. Clearly, you haven't used both of them.

Smite mops the floor with pummel in abyssea. It's not even close. Even with the WWoE weapon smite is better.

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All I was doing is making an example of jobs that already have powerful critical hit weapon skills that aren't used in Abyssea purely because they lack the tools to cover many red/blue proc

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Due to the stigma associated with PUP (even though the job has improved greatly in the last several updates), even if they could proc 10 different weapons and proc yellow easily, they'd still not get picked just because people still act all "LOLPUP."

Question, what does more damage, Asuran Fists or Raging Fists

Question, what is the relevance of that statement?

I know what you're thinking. "Pummel is better cuz it has more hits!"

Yes, it has more hits. it also has lower mods and a much lower FTP. in the end, you can ignore all the maths and stuff and just use both WS and see that VS performs better.

edit: this is way off track, so I'm not going to go any further on that.

Your answer is relevant to my point, if you would care to indulge me.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

even if they could proc 10 different weapons and proc yellow easily, they'd still not get picked just because people still act all "LOLPUP."

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You're making an assumption.

Mnks and Pups get out of this thread....go find your own thread to argue about, pummel vs victory smite is a derail take that crap somewhere else. This thread is about SE deletion of Scarlet Delirium, and I promptly expect them to delete or greatly overhaul it

Hey guys Power Slash is a crit ws

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Mnks and Pups get out of this thread....go find your own thread to argue about, pummel vs victory smite is a derail take that crap somewhere else. This thread is about SE deletion of Scarlet Delirium, and I promptly expect them to delete or greatly overhaul it

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Well you and all the other cry babies take your shit to the actual test server sub forums.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Hey guys Power Slash is a crit ws

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Which is not a WS on our main weapon. Power aside.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Which is not a WS on our main weapon. Power aside.

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"our main weapon"

herp because you have A+ in one and A-(highest GS skill in the game) makes scythe your main weapon derp

idk why people used rampage all those years, or why ninjas even use katanas

Crit WSes aren't only good in Abyssea you tool.

All of DRK's non-Catastrophe WSes are retarded weak in comparison to most WSs in the game. Crits are massive boosts to WS numbers even without RR/SS atmas, especially on higher level mobs. Why? Because a crit adds a 1.0 to cRatio which can be 50-100% more damage per hit on high enough mobs, and still a decent boost on trash.

And yes, while GS WSes have powerful potential, it's not at 100 tp, and/or the delay makes the WSes come much, much slower.

Crit WSes are generally superior to noncrit WSes. Need Proof? Raging Rush is a lot better than King's Justice, despite the fact KJ has superior mods. Jin vs Ku. Drakes vs Penta. Jishnu's vs Sidewinder.

Stringing pummel is weaker than VS due to low fTP first hit, weaker WSC mods, more swings, and less power from DA/TA.

ITT: GS swings slower than scythe, Torcleaver is weak at 100TP

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Originally Posted by Rearden

idk why people used rampage all those years, or why ninjas even use katanas

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Who knows, it will forever remain a mystery.

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Originally Posted by Rearden

ITT: GS swings slower than scythe, Torcleaver is weak at 100TP

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No one said GS swings slower than scythe. The WSes come slower because the delay means you require more hits to 100, but I guess that eluded you in your rush to look like a smug retard.

A 5 hit scythe build WSes ~25% faster than a 7 hit Torcleaver build even though it has higher delay, unless you want to TP/WS in some godawful gear/food that hurts Caladbold/Torcleaver.


Torcleaver is the lone exception to the the GS Weaponskills sucking at 100%, outside of SS situationally on mobs with absolutely ridiculous level correction and defense that your WSes without the atk bonus would be floored.

Torcleaver is also the worst off of the WSes when it comes to WS speed thanks to Caladbolg's low delay. Not gonna bother running numbers on the WoE weapon as it's already out of the question.

No one ever stated crit ws are inferior you tool.

14.64s to 100TP with Apoc

14.28s to 100TP with Cala

Not factoring DA or Zanshin, but that favors Cala anyway.

A 5 hit with Catastrophe means you need 4 hits to make 100tp after the WS.

Catastrophe total delay to 100tp: 2052 delay.

A 7 hit with Torcleaver on Caladbolg means you need 6 hits to make 100tp after WS:

Torcleaver total delay to 100tp: 2580 delay

That's ~25.7% slower for the GS. DA also favors Catastrophe because the delay between rounds is larger, meaning it's a larger boost in terms of speed when multihits proc.

Keep on failing.

I would love to see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

I also have no idea where you're coming up with your numbers for total delay unless you're assuming 15% total haste or 5% and Hasso but then again I'd still love to just see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

I use

TP
Apocalypse
Rose Strap
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White Tathlum
Bale Burgeonet +2
Ganesha's Mala
Brutal Earring
Bale Earring
Armadaberk (STP +6, DA +3)
Bale Gauntlets +2
Hoard Ring
Rajas Ring
Atheling Mantle
Goading Belt
Calmecac Trousers
Ace's Leggings

STP gear on WS - Brutal Earring, Rose Strap, Armadaberk, Rajas Ring, Ace's Leggings.


You're basically sacrifing feet (which isn't a huge tradeoff) and augmented P. Body. Worth it in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Rearden

I would love to see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

I also have no idea where you're coming up with your numbers for total delay unless you're assuming 15% total haste or 5% and Hasso but then again I'd still love to just see the 5hit WS build for Cata.

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It only takes 44 STP to make a 5 hit with Apoc. You can go about that in many, many ways. I'll give one example:

15 /SAM
5 Food
4 Rose strap
1 Brutal
5 Rajas
4 Hoard
5 Goading
5 Ace's

44 total. Not ideal because you're limited in WS swaps in some slots, but there are literally dozens of ways to 5 hit with Apoc.


If you don't get how I came up with the delay I can't tell if serious or trolling...

Set-up I posted doesn't require you eat STP food for the record so you can stick with RCB's. I did toy with Arrabbiata for a while but it worked out worse.

Basically if you TP in 47 STP, you need to WS in 33 STP to 5 hit. SAM sub, Rose, Armadaberk, Brutal, Rajas is 31. So you can either use something like Ace's Leggings, White Tathlum or Hoard to WS in or you can use Atilla's when TP'ing and WS in whatever.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Mnks and Pups get out of this thread....go find your own thread to argue about, pummel vs victory smite is a derail take that crap somewhere else. This thread is about SE deletion of Scarlet Delirium, and I promptly expect them to delete or greatly overhaul it

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I don't need you to tell me what's a derail and what isn't. that's why I said it was off track and i wasn't going to continue. That being said it's a public forum and people can post where they want, so you can't tell people to "get out."


...Anyway, what's with all the listing of TP gear. I was pretty sure that gear is really not part of the problem with DRK. It's one of two things or a combination of both in my view:

1) Scythe WS cannot compete as well in the current crits-are-everything metagame, and unusual WS mods on some WS do not fit with the stats DRKs care about most.
2)spells and abilities that do not fully support the concept of making sacrifices to deal maximum damage (as DRK isn't regarded as capable of dealing the most damage right now), or may have at one time but have been since nerfed to hell (e.g. the signature ability, souleater, being completely useless in any meaningful fight)

It sadly is true that DRK is pretty much in the crapper at this time even with the new JA which with only a 1 minute duration seems week as garbage.

I had hoped for something better but not this...

Still, "deleting" it doesn't accomplish anything. Does the OP think that they could reclaim all the time they spent on it and immediately slap on something else in it's place if they did? Because no, they couldn't.

Dark knight is like being the figuratively speaking "black sheep" of the FFXI family. We are here and SE recognizes us but it's as if we are thrown bread crumbs while everyone else eats steak and complains how we should be thankful about the bread.

I'd rather SE make the job ability useful than delete it

My issue with SD is SE is showing there lack of knowledge in the game in general in there words....

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In many cases, dangerous special abilities and magic that are used by the opponent can be halted by Stun, but there are instances where Stun does not work or cannot be cast due to recast timers. There are also instances where players will have to take the damage from some attacks in order to stop more powerful attacks instead.

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I'd like to point out stun can be casted outside of most AoEs in the game which makes the use SE intended for null/void (unless SD had a DMG migration)

Either way unless they wanna change so that it can fit into normal HNM or party strats it should be deleted.

And here's the reason it 2 fold

1st is PS2 Limitation i'd rather that space used for something useful (even if it's on another job)

2nd SE keep adding useless stuff to DRK then buffing them with no real effect (see elemental spell/Occult acumen)

As far as DRK goes i'm happy with the job it may lack somewhat in abyssea but i've just subbed mnk and become a v.reliable tank there instead, outside we're really strong.

Also with the update in general. Absorb - Buff is a great addition to DRK considering the LR addition.

In summary
I'm tired of the addtions that mean nothing to DRK

If i had a choice i'd remove SD, Elemental spells(not the Dark magic),Tactical parry and Occult Acumen from DRK so SE could actually focus on adjusting the useful aspects of the job rather making a messy hybird job.

Btw i feel this is dumb how people were so aggressive proposing the idea of and the retort.

Outside abyssea i know DRK is the top DD in alot of cases.

Greatsword w/ torclever is our best combo atm.

As for the comments on how Torclever suck ....
4.5 ftp mod at 100% isn't weak in fact it's the best ftp mod for a melee weapon at 100%
It has a sucky stat mod?? ... at the start yes but please look up Jingang gear/Twlight gear/9 Vit neck(or 4VIT 2% Quad attack) which has made this mod decent now.
It sucks cause it doesn't have an attack bonus.... you know what has an attack bonus DRK lol we can get the highest attack in the game to back up our WS unlike say SAM that get hurt by this alot with Fudo. (which SE gave that dumb response of use gekko then /facepalm)
The Delay sucks... making 6 hit not worth it ... no it means u need stuff like carabonara, adaman, Regain earring for it to be easily worth it ^^

As for the comments of Scythe sucks...

5 hit OAT + Guillotine spam says HI!!!!
At 80% haste u get 100% tp in 3.5-7sec (avg is around 4-4.5 secs) (btw any job that can spam WS for decent DMG in Dyna is <3 for staggering)

Either way from the limited endgame content outside of abyssea i don't really have much trouble competing against other DDs infact in cases where my LR pushs me 15% haste over other DDs then DRK is a really hard job to compete with if played right.

As for people saying souleater is useless .... nope infact since the update 6% hp lost for 12% DMG is really manageable for mages these days (most can be offset with a Regen IV) and in cases when mp isn't a issue it's awesome to use ^^.

They said they were going to increase the time and not leave it at one minute. People who are saying delete SD are stupid. I welcome this Job ability, considering I'm actually a good DRK who always out DD's every other job outside of abyssea. All those people saying DRK is miles behind other jobs are abyssea-ignorant and either need to state inside abyssea only or they just don't play with good DRKs. or maybe they just play with Urteil. Speaking of, why do you even care Urteil, All you do is go drk/sch and shout for ballista anyway, why do you play this game. Actually why do I play this game, it sucks.

Oh good grief. Urt is at it again. Viva La Dark Knight!

This ability does need work. However, while Urt is far more direct and loud about it, every point he makes is true. We do not see much of a response in the respective Job forums, but they do seem to pay attention to this general discussion forum. Can we blame them for possibly overlooking the official discussion about this on the DRK forum?

Still, I think it's clear that the way this ability is now, it has no real significance on DRKs and chances are quite high that it will be ignored with much of the reported posts claiming there's hardly any noticeable difference in damage dealt with the skill active.

However, we need to remember that we are merely beta testing this ability and it's current state does not have to be set in stone. That is why many Dark Knight players like Urteil and Myself are hoping for some more favorable alterations.

I think an excellent idea would be if we were presented with multiple options to discuss rather than being given something and hoping for the best. That way the development team will better understand what it is we feel that we need.

And that's the key word. "Need." Do we NEED this ability? In it's current state, no. Developers need to discuss with us more to find out what it is we NEED first. After that, THEN we can focus on "wants."

This ability is not a "need" for Dark Knights, which is why no one is truly pleased with it and perhaps wish that it will be removed or buffed in some way.

It just needs to be fixed up so that using it, and taking the damage has the expected result of the significant damage buff (and it needs to last longer).

It can be made more functional. It doesn't need to be 'deleted."

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Originally Posted by Vortex

Urteil man, it may be time to level another job, i mean it's clear you love and adore DRK but having DRK as your only job is just going to keep you in constant rage.

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I thought this was a joke untill I did some research:
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Urteil
He really has DRK only at 90...WOW

Level another job and stop emoing.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Oh good grief. Urt is at it again. Viva La Dark Knight!

This ability does need work. However, while Urt is far more direct and loud about it, every point he makes is true. We do not see much of a response in the respective Job forums, but they do seem to pay attention to this general discussion forum. Can we blame them for possibly overlooking the official discussion about this on the DRK forum?

Still, I think it's clear that the way this ability is now, it has no real significance on DRKs and chances are quite high that it will be ignored with much of the reported posts claiming there's hardly any noticeable difference in damage dealt with the skill active.

However, we need to remember that we are merely beta testing this ability and it's current state does not have to be set in stone. That is why many Dark Knight players like Urteil and Myself are hoping for some more favorable alterations.

I think an excellent idea would be if we were presented with multiple options to discuss rather than being given something and hoping for the best. That way the development team will better understand what it is we feel that we need.

And that's the key word. "Need." Do we NEED this ability? In it's current state, no. Developers need to discuss with us more to find out what it is we NEED first. After that, THEN we can focus on "wants."

This ability is not a "need" for Dark Knights, which is why no one is truly pleased with it and perhaps wish that it will be removed or buffed in some way.

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Nice way to try to separate yourself from the "radical nature" of my discontent.

But then basically hop on board with everything I am saying.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

"our main weapon"

herp because you have A+ in one and A-(highest GS skill in the game) makes scythe your main weapon derp

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OMG Leonlionheart said something smart.


As for the rest of the people in this thread guess what. Scarlet Delirium is a terrible idea, thats it, end of discussion, it just flat out fails.

These forums are designed for us the player base to actually tell SE what we think, and the votes are in, and Scarlet Delirium is an incredibly dumb and ineffective ability that offers very little boost in its extremely limited usage role and for a very short time. All in all its much better to either stun the said move or not be there when it goes off instead of even considering the use of this terrible ability.

I can argee with both sides on the issue of its deletion, yes it should be deleted instead of being implemented as is, and yes it should be fixed so that we DRKs can actually get some use out of it.

As for all you none DRKs who keep saying our damage is ok, stop posting in DRK related threads, seriously your just making yourselves look stupid. We DRKs are trying to get some fixes that our job desperately needs. If you say well our job hasn't got much either in the last few updates, guess what? You can use the forums to suggest stuff to the devs or debate the usefulness of your own abilities.

Finally, I think its really funny seeing wars comment in here, after all the jack of all trades melee jobs is king of dd and has been since level 75, not to mention it has recieved 2 ja's that would have been better in the hands of DRK (Retaliation and Restraint) and on the latter one it used to have a negative effect of no more crits, til SE realized they made wars deal less king of dd's with it on then they removed that. Anyways this thread has gotten way off topic I saw like 4-5 pages of nothing but mnk chat, seriously way off topic.

I'll second this. Please add a second tier of Tactical Parry to Dark Knight instead!

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I played since JP Beta. Distortion was nice, but not once have DRK ever been the "OMG GET!" job of FFXI outside of zerging. You do realize DRKs were dubbed "whiff knights" for a reason, right? DRKs were the "last resort" if there weren't any Samurai or Dragoons seeking (before SE raped TP return and people went derp about DRG.)

From 10 - 40 DRK was overlooked, in the 50s-60s DRK were the last resort for your party, in the late 60s and 70s, Spinning Slash was the only saving grace they had due to it having steady dmg on even high defense mobs, yet people rarely wanted one for a party if they could help it.

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A few corrections:
1. Whiff knight was the player base being stupid and it applied to a lot of 2H melees, but DRK took the blunt of all that for reasons that will follow. At the time, people were concerned with skillchains and a major issue back then was accuracy because people would be ridiculous and fight IT++ mobs instead of chaining VT mobs. Consequently, it was noticeable when someone missed because they would be slow to initiate the skillchain. The reason DRK developed this stigma is because their weapon was slower than all the other competitors (Scythe and G Sword being some of the slowest weapons in the game at the time since WARs used axe instead of G axe). However, there was no inherent accuracy deficit for DRK except for Guillotine (Later removed), which was irrelevant since great sword was the primary weapon during end game and people did not realize that this single hit WS received an accuracy and attack bonus (Not to mention people SATAed all their WS).

In short, issues with DRK at this time were player conceived, though their reasoning was fair (Even if accuracy is the same %, haste values will undermine or exaggerate this value; hence, accuracy will mean less for skillchain purposes if you hit at the rate of hundred fists). That said, you were better positioned than MNKs and DRG at the time. Even SAM was less valued during sky-prime era. WAR wasn't considered all that great either since they usually used 300% TP for Steel Cyclone. To say that DRK was unwanted is quite misleading when compared to other melees with inferior SATA WS (Which was the primary source of damage then).

2. DRKs also made a come back during the pre-Abyssea era. They were able to tank Omega and several other HNMs (Fafnir, for example). For some NMs, they surpassed Samurai's tanking capabilities, but for others, SAM was the safer option. In comparison to other melees, DRK excelled beyond many of them.

Maybe DRK/DRG will have a place with zerging with this JA

Wait for "GONNA ALMOST KILL ALL OF YOU AOE STYLE" tp move by a mob, pop scarlet delirium, pop high jump, rape shit.

Except /DRG has almost NOTHING else to offer but lol -30% enmity every 2.5 minutes and, unfortunately, Super Jump is level 50.

So the rest of us DRKs, yeah won't use this ability unless deliberately trying to suck at ffxi

Edit: as if subbing something other than SAM isn't already deliberately trying to suck