New SMN JA "Possession" Empowering the "Melee SMN"

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Even the illiterate guy knows what I use my MP on. Hint: /SAM doesn't have any spells...

Idiots.

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Who do you play with?

Who lets you do this?

Have you figured out where the MP goes yet?

Avatar perpetuation? Just that? Because anything worth our concern in this matter (lol, SMNs meleeing EXP mobs is no biggie), the Avatar's neutral melee damage isn't anything to write home about either.

And Blood Pacts incur JA delay. So try again.

Okay, We understand SMN Melee isn't an accepted norm and people are phobic of anything related to change and have some massive hatred of people attempting to have their job play a separate role than what is known and accepted as a norm.

Can we move on now? Your opinions have been stated and your views are known, now you're simply insulting each other back and forth.

Be the better man and Drop it. In your own words SE will never add this, So why is there so much harm in 3-4 people discussing it? Even we (Well I) admit its mostly unrealistic for FFXI, its not completely ludicrous for the series (hint: FF3 you basically fuse with your avatar, Ride the ShivaCYCLE!), But for FFXI i agree it will likely never happen.

Seriously, You people *** up every single thread even remotely related to SMN going back and forth with Dallas about him or SMN melee.

can't even one of you act like a man and move on and stop bickering like angry children?

seigan and hasso have 50% casting time recast increase...

what the f*** is going on

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Okay, We understand SMN Melee isn't an accepted norm and people are phobic of anything related to change and have some massive hatred of people attempting to have their job play a separate role than what is known and accepted as a norm.

Can we move on now? Your opinions have been stated and your views are known, now you're simply insulting each other back and forth.

Be the better man and Drop it. In your own words SE will never add this, So why is there so much harm in 3-4 people discussing it? Even we (Well I) admit its mostly unrealistic for FFXI, its not completely ludicrous for the series (hint: FF3 you basically fuse with your avatar, Ride the ShivaCYCLE!), But for FFXI i agree it will likely never happen.

Seriously, You people *** up every single thread even remotely related to SMN going back and forth with Dallas about him or SMN melee.

can't even one of you act like a man and move on and stop bickering like angry children?

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You don't have to read it...

I'm having my fun . _ .

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

You don't have to read it...

I'm having my fun . _ .

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I know, But i read it in every thread and some decent discussion (Even unrealistic, i admit!) is lost because if you guys keep going back and forth a GM will eventually lock the thread :\

That's a valid point. Where'd my 100pg smn melee basher go?

JA delay is 1 second, like all JA. I don't have a lot of those compared to most melee.

Yes, perpetuation. 23% in Haste gear isn't cheap. Avatar's melee damage is icing on the cake. Putting the avatar away has the following negative effects:

1) loss in at least 10 seconds per minute just casting the avatar (thanks for reminding me... 15 seconds with Hasso)
2) loss in time aligning the avatar for buffs (a meleeing avatar is in range)
3) loss of hate generated by BPs (very important solo and backup tanking)
4) loss of pettp gained, lower cures, lower merit pacts
5) loss of buffs on avatar (only a few, but they help)
6) loss of damage from melee

There are a LOT of reasons to keep the avatar out. I have unlimited MP, so I keep the avatar out.

its 2 seconds (or 120 delay)

Pfft, the delay doesn't really matter anyway. I use Hasso/Hastega/Meditate outside of the melee cycle, which leaves the Rages and 507hp Winds.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Okay, We understand SMN Melee isn't an accepted norm and people are phobic of anything related to change and have some massive hatred of people attempting to have their job play a separate role than what is known and accepted as a norm.

Can we move on now? Your opinions have been stated and your views are known, now you're simply insulting each other back and forth.

Be the better man and Drop it. In your own words SE will never add this, So why is there so much harm in 3-4 people discussing it? Even we (Well I) admit its mostly unrealistic for FFXI, its not completely ludicrous for the series (hint: FF3 you basically fuse with your avatar, Ride the ShivaCYCLE!), But for FFXI i agree it will likely never happen.

Seriously, You people *** up every single thread even remotely related to SMN going back and forth with Dallas about him or SMN melee.

can't even one of you act like a man and move on and stop bickering like angry children?

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Oh ok. Note to self: make pipedream thread about how WAR needs Treasure Hunter because it doesn't already do enough as-is.

It's just hilarious how butt-hurt "summoners" seem to be about how their job "sucks" because it doesn't do the things they want it to do, when there are so many other jobs that DO what they *** want to do. But no, it HAS to be Summoner that does it. Why? *** if I know. But hey, it's okay for Summoners to pipedream about doing something they can't and won't be able to... but as soon as it's any other job, it's STFU and QQ from everyone instead. Waah I'm a Summoner but the job sucks! /thread

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Oh ok. Note to self: make pipedream thread about how WAR needs Treasure Hunter because it doesn't already do enough as-is.

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Why not? Discuss whatever you want. Doesn't make the idea any less absurd. If you bother to read this thread you would see I admit fully the idea is absurd for the FFXI universe. You don't have to shit up a thread with your hate fill babble simply because you disagree with it.

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It's just hilarious how butt-hurt "summoners" seem to be about how their job "sucks" because it doesn't do the things they want it to do, when there are so many other jobs that DO what they *** want to do. But no, it HAS to be Summoner that does it. Why? *** if I know. But hey, it's okay for Summoners to pipedream about doing something they can't and won't be able to... but as soon as it's any other job, it's STFU and QQ from everyone instead. Waah I'm a Summoner but the job sucks! /thread

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You seem entirely more butthurt than anyone else in this thread. I asked you to calm down, and your response is some rage-induced hate spewing about us being butthurt and blatant sarcasm. Hypocrisy thy name is Tagrineth

No one here (Well, Me specifically) Is asking for some Magical SMN Melee buff. If you actually took the time to read it rather than acting like a profound Self-appointed Knower-of-all in every one of your posts so far you could see that.

I admit the idea does not fit, But thats not even the point. the point is the idea was good in itself, it doesn't fit in FFXI but i enjoy it and I'm running with it. Maybe King or Dallas feels this is valid but i can see it doesnt fit SE's vision of the job.

Your attitude is the main problem here and your childish behavior. Nothing else in on trial. We get you don't agree. My point is you don't have to act like an ass to state your opinion.

Tag, the pro-melee SMN aren't the ones complaining about the job. The "watch paint dry" SMN are complaining. Please understand that the SMN divide is much deeper than swinging the staff.

The more MP recovery you have, the less reason you have to hate SMN. I think the job is already balanced. I'm looking forward to the tilt.

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You seem entirely more butthurt than anyone else in this thread. I asked you to calm down, and your response is some rage-induced hate spewing about us being butthurt and blatant sarcasm. Hypocrisy thy name is Tagrineth

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I might be coming off moreso that way than intended, as a note. There's no real "rage" there, more general irritation at how so many Summoners... I mean, look at the other damn thread. "Job vision: watch paint dry". Really? Do some summoners REALLY feel like playing the job is like watching paint dry...?

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

I might be coming off moreso that way than intended, as a note. There's no real "rage" there, more general irritation at how so many Summoners... I mean, look at the other damn thread. "Job vision: watch paint dry". Really? Do some summoners REALLY feel like playing the job is like watching paint dry...?

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It seems to be the same few people. (Namely Dallas and like 2 others who really think Melee is wonderfu).

I myself stay in touch with Reality however and admit the shortcommings of the job and that SE has never changed a job "Vision" in the past.

WAR was always a DD
PLD was always a tank
WHM was always the healer
THF will always be uselesss outside of TH

etc etc. So i doubt SMN will go from

"Watching their pets while picking their noses"

to

"Meaningful Melee".

If it was a different game this would be a really good idea. It might fit into something like the Diablo II universe, But its just FFXI leaves little room for this type of thing because SE and the community does not view SMN as a melee and it would take a lot to change that view. So much to downright impossible.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Tag, the pro-melee SMN aren't the ones complaining about the job. The "watch paint dry" SMN are complaining. Please understand that the SMN divide is much deeper than swinging the staff.

The more MP recovery you have, the less reason you have to hate SMN. I think the job is already balanced. I'm looking forward to the tilt.

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If SMN ever gets any kind of fancy tilt, it won't be Staff-related.

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

If SMN ever gets any kind of fancy tilt, it won't be Staff-related.

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Myrkr = unlimited MP. Are you thinking the tilt won't be mp-related?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Myrkr = unlimited MP. Are you thinking the tilt won't be mp-related?

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I thought you were trying to prove your melee swings were worth a rat's tail?

Your WS might be unlimited MP, but so is /RDM. I've never, ever, ever had to rest on SMN at 90. Anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I thought you were trying to prove your melee swings were worth a rat's tail?

Your WS might be unlimited MP, but so is /RDM. I've never, ever, ever had to rest on SMN at 90. Anywhere.

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I'm not proving anything. I'm being compared to a SMN/RDM who does nothing but maybe casts Cure 3 every once and a while. It's no contest, which is why I don't allow you to compete.

If you think /RDM mp recovery is that good, replace all your perp gear with gear that enhances your pet's damage:

Staff: Soulscourge
Head: Haste 5%
Neck: Regain or Attack (yeah, try full-timing sac torque lol)
Body: Crit: 4%
Hands: Accuracy, 2 choices
Waste: Attack
Legs: Accuracy
Feet: Attack

Until someone manages this setup, all SMN have MP issues.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

What I honestly think about this idea:

Bad to get rid of the avatars completely. Now if it did something else, like reduce the cooldown of BP to x2, to compensate for how powerful the SMN has become...

Still don't like SMN melee but if the public wants it that badly, it's SE's choice to weigh the options.

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I looked at the idea as a modal ability, where you can either summon the avatar as a pet as normal, or if this ability is active, you take control of and become the avatar itself.

Either way, I feel summoner needs something to help it live up to its reputation of power. I don't mean OVERpowered, but right now, in terms of inflicting any kind of damage, SMN is not very capable, no matter how you try to do it. It was pointed out that the master can substantially outdamage its pet (The total is still abysmal, of course, but still). This is something that should be rectified in one way or another. Most people, I'm sure, would like to see the avatars be stronger, or some kind of modal ability like avatar's favor that "channels the avatar's power towards special attacks" or something, perhaps disabling Wards to give a damage boost and faster recast to Rages or something. I don't know, just throwing something out there.

SE's implied ability of paying more MP for faster blood pacts seems like a start, but it would have to be a substantial BP delay reduction for it to be worth having at all. The OP's idea I find interesting, but is at odds with most people's perception of what the job is "supposed" to be. You may like summoner as it is for the things it does that are special, e.g. perfect defense, but I would prefer the job be known for a bit more than that. Why settle for good enough when you can always have more?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I'm not proving anything. I'm being compared to a SMN/RDM who does nothing but maybe casts Cure 3 every once and a while. It's no contest, which is why I don't allow you to compete.

If you think /RDM mp recovery is that good, replace all your perp gear with gear that enhances your pet's damage:

Staff: Soulscourge
Head: Haste 5%
Neck: Regain or Attack (yeah, try full-timing sac torque lol)
Body: Crit: 4%
Hands: Accuracy, 2 choices
Waste: Attack
Legs: Accuracy
Feet: Attack

Until someone manages this setup, all SMN have MP issues.

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I'd macro it in to blood pacts, like I macro avatar MAB into blood pacts. I wouldn't full time it. It's not helping enough to full time anyway, except for the head slot (which I could easily keep +mp by losing the 1 refresh I actually have on head slot lol). Avatar physical attacks are incredibly weak in comparison to real DD physical attacks.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I looked at the idea as a modal ability, where you can either summon the avatar as a pet as normal, or if this ability is active, you take control of and become the avatar itself.

Either way, I feel summoner needs something to help it live up to its reputation of power. I don't mean OVERpowered, but right now, in terms of inflicting any kind of damage, SMN is not very capable, no matter how you try to do it. It was pointed out that the master can substantially outdamage its pet (The total is still abysmal, of course, but still). This is something that should be rectified in one way or another. Most people, I'm sure, would like to see the avatars be stronger, or some kind of modal ability like avatar's favor that "channels the avatar's power towards special attacks" or something, perhaps disabling Wards to give a damage boost and faster recast to Rages or something. I don't know, just throwing something out there.

SE's implied ability of paying more MP for faster blood pacts seems like a start, but it would have to be a substantial BP delay reduction for it to be worth having at all. The OP's idea I find interesting, but is at odds with most people's perception of what the job is "supposed" to be. You may like summoner as it is for the things it does that are special, e.g. perfect defense, but I would prefer the job be known for a bit more than that. Why settle for good enough when you can always have more?

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Honestly I don't understand SE's tip-toe approach to SMN. From 75-90 SMN has gotten what, some niche blood pacts and crap tons of perp- gear? A set bonus that barely ever works, and shows lesser numbers than a BLM using a similar set bonus.

Why do they think the job is so powerful that they can't give Avatars at least the power of a PUP automaton? I don't think anyone would get pissed if Shiva would just start casting Blizzard IV by herself sometime instead of wasting a Blood pact: Rage on it. I mean using spells form avatars was never very good in the first place.

Why can't Avatar's get Haste? And why can't BP be affected by fast cast gear or haste?

Black Magic: Haste affects recasts
White Magic: Haste affects recasts
Physical Weapon Skills: Haste affects WS frequency

SMN: Haste does nothing
RNG: Haste does nothing
COR: Haste does nothing

Considering it's the strongest stat in the game, every job that DOESNT have it gets completely sidelined when comparing them to other jobs that are affected by haste.

Does SE not realize how powerful haste is, that not giving it to certain jobs completely undermines them?

The only fix, other than having it affect said jobs/abilities, is to scale damage to make up for the lack of haste. (Or in RNG and COR's case, make a totally new stat particularly for Ranged Attacks.) SMN get's -bp in gear, but let's face it. 15 is 25% of 60, same as 25% haste in gear. However when you add the spells, Haste, March, or the abilities Hasso, Desperate Blows, and Haste Samba, it significantly increases the power (exponentially even) of damage.

80% of 60(BP timer) is 48, meaning for a SMN to even compare to a DD at capped Haste the recast on Blood Pacts should be Twelve seconds. (Even still, the maximum time for a Ukon WAR to WS is 10 seconds at capped haste, assuming 6hit build, with DA, TA, and retaliation it gets lowered to as little as 2 seconds (WS after delay).

Finally, SMN should not need to Melee to compare to other jobs. Sure, it can melee, but it shouldn't be potent enough that the Avatar loses out on being SMN's most powerful aspect just because some special snowflake thinks he can do damage with his staff.

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Avatar physical attacks are incredibly weak in comparison to real DD physical attacks.

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Not really. Or well, it hasn't always been that way. I once noticed vs Cerberus that my avatar was hitting for 35 and the DRK was hitting for 40. Then the BRD came along and DRK shoot up to 100-120 per swing. Avatars on HNM are pretty much on par with melee jobs, before buffs.

And that is really the problem. Game perfectly balanced without BRDs and CORs, then 110% in favor of melee when you apply these jobs to parties. We'd have a lot less issues if BRD and COR was never added, but it is a pretty harsh thing to say.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Honestly I don't understand SE's tip-toe approach to SMN. From 75-90 SMN has gotten what, some niche blood pacts and crap tons of perp- gear? A set bonus that barely ever works, and shows lesser numbers than a BLM using a similar set bonus.

Why do they think the job is so powerful that they can't give Avatars at least the power of a PUP automaton? I don't think anyone would get pissed if Shiva would just start casting Blizzard IV by herself sometime instead of wasting a Blood pact: Rage on it. I mean using spells form avatars was never very good in the first place.

Why can't Avatar's get Haste? And why can't BP be affected by fast cast gear or haste?

Black Magic: Haste affects recasts
White Magic: Haste affects recasts
Physical Weapon Skills: Haste affects WS frequency

SMN: Haste does nothing
RNG: Haste does nothing
COR: Haste does nothing

Considering it's the strongest stat in the game, every job that DOESNT have it gets completely sidelined when comparing them to other jobs that are affected by haste.

Does SE not realize how powerful haste is, that not giving it to certain jobs completely undermines them?

The only fix, other than having it affect said jobs/abilities, is to scale damage to make up for the lack of haste. (Or in RNG and COR's case, make a totally new stat particularly for Ranged Attacks.) SMN get's -bp in gear, but let's face it. 15 is 25% of 60, same as 25% haste in gear. However when you add the spells, Haste, March, or the abilities Hasso, Desperate Blows, and Haste Samba, it significantly increases the power (exponentially even) of damage.

80% of 60(BP timer) is 48, meaning for a SMN to even compare to a DD at capped Haste the recast on Blood Pacts should be Twelve seconds. (Even still, the maximum time for a Ukon WAR to WS is 10 seconds at capped haste, assuming 6hit build, with DA, TA, and retaliation it gets lowered to as little as 2 seconds (WS after delay).

Finally, SMN should not need to Melee to compare to other jobs. Sure, it can melee, but it shouldn't be potent enough that the Avatar loses out on being SMN's most powerful aspect just because some special snowflake thinks he can do damage with his staff.

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I don't think you've ever made this much sense before. Glad to see that we are quite a lot on the same page, apart from SMN melee.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Not really. Or well, it hasn't always been that way. I once noticed vs Cerberus that my avatar was hitting for 35 and the DRK was hitting for 40. Then the BRD came along and DRK shoot up to 100-120 per swing. Avatars on HNM are pretty much on par with melee jobs, before buffs.

And that is really the problem. Game perfectly balanced without BRDs and CORs, then 110% in favor of melee when you apply these jobs to parties. We'd have a lot less issues if BRD and COR was never added, but it is a pretty harsh thing to say.

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pDIF is pretty much the deciding factor on high level NMs. That and accuracy.

The fact that avatars in no way get buffs to either of this without using a specific avatar for long periods of time is proof.

Avatar's Favor is trying to push for long-time usage of a single avatar; why force it into gimping damage? I personally don't use it cause 1) My SMN is never in the melee party, and Diabolos sucks for actual damage (and so does Shiva if you're going to eat the -20 MAB and have Shiva float around the BLM), and 2) I use magical blood pacts if I'm on SMN, which take a HUGE hit in potency. The physical variant is there, as in there is attack- because of Avatar's Favor, but it's harder to see. (I would use it, however, if Ramuh got a Crit WS!)

I wouldn't care if Avatar's Favor INCREASED perp cost. I just don't like losing out on damage, on a job that is gasping for it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Korpg, thank you for again thinking you deserve to be heard by me. You are wrong.

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Yet...you responded to me....hmm.

Hey guys! I'm going to ignore Dallas by responding to him now!

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I swing a 98 base damage staff for up to 900 damage on a normal hit in Abyssea (550 outside). I get back 1500-2000 MP with my WS. No one but a bunch of trolls on a forum are laughing.

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I swing a 124 Base damage Great Axe for up to 1400 on a normal hit in Abyssea (1100 outside). I can do up to 8k damage with my WS. And none of that damage is ODD either. When I finish my Ukon, I can swing up to 4500 on a normal hit in Abyssea (don't know outside yet). I can do 11k WSs normally, possibly getting higher than that. I already have a 5 hit/25% haste build for my Ukon for TP (thanks Leon for your help). And I'm not thinking that I can do something that my job doesn't allow me to (as in, you know, main healing, or nuking, or stuff like that).

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Originally Posted by Dallas

JA delay is 1 second, like all JA. I don't have a lot of those compared to most melee.

Yes, perpetuation. 23% in Haste gear isn't cheap. Avatar's melee damage is icing on the cake. Putting the avatar away has the following negative effects:

1) loss in at least 10 seconds per minute just casting the avatar (thanks for reminding me... 15 seconds with Hasso)
2) loss in time aligning the avatar for buffs (a meleeing avatar is in range)
3) loss of hate generated by BPs (very important solo and backup tanking)
4) loss of pettp gained, lower cures, lower merit pacts
5) loss of buffs on avatar (only a few, but they help)
6) loss of damage from melee

There are a LOT of reasons to keep the avatar out. I have unlimited MP, so I keep the avatar out.

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Number 3 is proof positive that Dallas doesn't use SMN, at least in a party situation. If his avatar is tanking, or even backup tanking, then either his tanks REALLY suck or he is full of...you know.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I'm not proving anything. I'm being compared to a SMN/RDM who does nothing but maybe casts Cure 3 every once and a while. It's no contest, which is why I don't allow you to compete.

If you think /RDM mp recovery is that good, replace all your perp gear with gear that enhances your pet's damage:

Staff: Soulscourge
Head: Haste 5%
Neck: Regain or Attack (yeah, try full-timing sac torque lol)
Body: Crit: 4%
Hands: Accuracy, 2 choices
Waste: Attack
Legs: Accuracy
Feet: Attack

Until someone manages this setup, all SMN have MP issues.

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That SMN/RDM is helping out the party a lot more than swinging a staff to keep an avatar out does.

Bolded: Hence, the reason why you need to swing a staff. Love to see you keep your avatar out outside of abyssea....oh wait.

Also: Gear, man, you really have no clue what a SMN is. Any/everyone who is a SMN can name off the gear you just put on there by name. Why can't you?

Plus: You mentioned that you solo stuff. What exactly have you soloed? Bubbly Bernie doesn't count.

Edit: 4 posts in a row! Sorry about that guys!

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And I'm not thinking that I can do something that my job doesn't allow me to (as in, you know, main healing, or nuking, or stuff like that).

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In most cases it is not about what you can do, but what you want to do. Take PLD for example that indeed CAN main heal, but it will be rare to see them do so. BLU can also main heal... you won't see that happen often.

Almost all jobs pick one role they want, then claim everything else is "wrong". PLDs can heal, SMNs can melee. You just won't find many that will accept the truth. It is more convenient to pretend the job only has ONE way to be played. For one thing, it lets you mock others who stray from the path.

Its not that I don't mind SMNs meleeing on trash mobs, its that when others state that if you don't melee, you are worthless, that is when I have to set those people straight.

That and that melee SMN outdamages Ukon WARs.

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Finally, SMN should not need to Melee to compare to other jobs.

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I agree in the sense that the avatars should be strong enough to be respected on their own. But the very fact that SMN can add some small amount of damage by meleeing seems to prevent them from making any avatar as strong as a player. This is why some people feel they have to do it, because SE will never make the summons strong enough to compete with other jobs by themselves, just because you could add another 5% (if the avatars were actually strong) by attacking yourself. So just using that random number, they would never make a summon more than 95% of a player's strength.

It's kind of stupid, but at the same time I can see why they're so cautious about it. Pet jobs ARE hard to balance. But SE is much more cautious iwth SMN than with PUP DRG or BST. Maybe they're afraid because of the popularity of summoners in the franchise, that if they make SMN actually "good" then everyone will bandwagon all over it.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Its not that I don't mind SMNs meleeing on trash mobs, its that when others state that if you don't melee, you are worthless, that is when I have to set those people straight.

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You do less on SMN than me. That's OK, most people play a weaker SMN because they are lazy. It's you as a poster that has no value to the SMN community. You champion "lazy" because you have a WAR that no one cares about. You beg for the attention from the last person who will ever care what you do.

Your sense of worthlessness is something you brought with you. You take it with you too.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

That SMN/RDM is helping out the party a lot more than swinging a staff to keep an avatar out does.

Bolded: Hence, the reason why you need to swing a staff. Love to see you keep your avatar out outside of abyssea....oh wait.

Also: Gear, man, you really have no clue what a SMN is. Any/everyone who is a SMN can name off the gear you just put on there by name. Why can't you?

Plus: You mentioned that you solo stuff. What exactly have you soloed? Bubbly Bernie doesn't count.

Edit: 4 posts in a row! Sorry about that guys!

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OMG! I matter! Pay attention to me!

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You do less on SMN than me. That's OK, most people play a weaker SMN because they are lazy. It's you as a poster that has no value to the SMN community. You champion "lazy" because you have a WAR that no one cares about. You beg for the attention from the last person who will ever care what you do.

Your sense of worthlessness is something you brought with you. You take it with you too.

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Nobody does less on SMN than you, because quite frankly no one in their right mind would let you near anything(you personally, not melee mages in general) higher than TW--.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You do less on SMN than me. That's OK, most people play a weaker SMN because they are lazy. It's you as a poster that has no value to the SMN community. You champion "lazy" because you have a WAR that no one cares about. You beg for the attention from the last person who will ever care what you do.

Your sense of worthlessness is something you brought with you. You take it with you too.

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How can I do less than you as a SMN when you don't even PLAY SMN? You don't make any contributions to a job you don't play. You are about as worthwhile as what you preach. Which is garbage.

That level 1 RDM is probably his real character and main job

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That level 1 RDM is probably his real character and main job

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I would not be suprised, I honestly think he hates SMN and is trying to damage us by pretending to be one.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

In most cases it is not about what you can do, but what you want to do. Take PLD for example that indeed CAN main heal, but it will be rare to see them do so. BLU can also main heal... you won't see that happen often.

Almost all jobs pick one role they want, then claim everything else is "wrong". PLDs can heal, SMNs can melee. You just won't find many that will accept the truth. It is more convenient to pretend the job only has ONE way to be played. For one thing, it lets you mock others who stray from the path.

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PLD can main heal OUTSIDE ABYSSEA, but it's inferior to anything with a bigger native MP pool, and the other jobs restricted to Cure IV have much better options for enhancing their cures as well as recovering their larger MP pools. Considering this is really only relevant outside abyssea (GL keeping up with cures inside...), the smaller MP and very limited innate MP recovery make it laughably inefficient compared to the other Cure IV options. And BLU is limited pretty badly by recast timers, usually every time I've tried having a BLU main heal even on easy stuff like Gnawtooth it hasn't ended well.

So uh... no, try again