Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

The whole reason SE just raised all the exp lvls in the older areas was to get people back to lvling out there. Many of the parties I have been in during the last rew weeks have gotten 600-800 exp per kill. Of course, the turnover is not as fast as Abyss but its at least 3 times faster than the old days. They know the game is doomed in the long run if people don't get back into the bigger sense of the whole game.

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It depends on your definition of the "whole game".

If all you do is exp, then yes the game is doomed since its very easy to exp nowadays.

If you do endgame events, it remains to be seen what SE has to offer for the future. Abyssea is awesome but it wont last forever, people already have multiple jobs with emp weaps and 5/5 af3+2s. SE has already started working on older events like dynamis.

Take zietzone for example. He sounds like the type of player who is in some BS social shell that does nothing but level because they dont have many older/skilled players. It sounds like its full of noobs who get corrupted by morons like zeitzone who view old exp through rose-tinted glasses and cry all day about abyssea making his previous leveling "accomplishments" null since anyone can get a job 30-90 in one sitting. He can claim all he wants that hes not the minority with his views, but he wont post his gear so we can only imagine the abomination that he calls a "skilled" player.

From zeitzone's perspective, the game is doomed since his archaic way of self aggrandizement is pointless now. He cant just run around claiming hes awesome because he has x# of 75 jobs that are geared awful as sin.

From the perspective of people who actually play endgame such as myself and a few other posters here, we like the way the system works right now. We have gone through the old way of exping for years and are tired of it. We like being able to level a new job for abyssea procs or to help out others or to simply have fun on a new job. We know what we are doing and dont need to grind collibri to know how to play the game. Raising the level cap for abyssea would just force accomplished players to go back to collibri syncing or smn buring or just not lvling new jobs altogether. I sure as hell wont be going back to the old 5k/hr pts just so people like zeitzone can "experience the social aspects of the game".

I agree that SE needs to revisit the old area's and respark interests in them again!

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

I sure as hell wont be going back to the old 5k/hr pts just so people like zeitzone can "experience the social aspects of the game".

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I 100% support this statement, and as a side note I've found that abyssea parties are generally more social than old exp parties anyway.

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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Well Said!!

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

I sure as hell wont be going back to the old 5k/hr pts just so people like zeitzone can "experience the social aspects of the game".

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zeitzone wasn't trying to say that there is anything wrong with Abyssea itself giving good exp, *just there is something wrong with it giving good exp to leechers*.

So the correct argument would be: "Why the hell can't a student (a level 30) learn from their mentors (lvl75+)? Isn't that a social aspect of the game too? If you think about it from a Role Playing perspective, the student tags along with their mentor into a live combat situation to learn."

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Originally Posted by Valaris

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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1. People will only sync to Eron[S], ToA zones, korroloka tunnel.

2. You dont need good gear to kill collibri or smn burn.

3. See above.

4. See point 2-3

5. Lvl sync will keep skill levels low, or in the case of smn burn skills will be the same as they are now.

6. Shout abyssea pts are 18 man groups, oldschool exp are 6 or less man pts. Abyssea = larger pts and less people seeking. Also there are 9 abyssea zones to choose from, but only 4 for sync (3 collibri, 1 smn burn).

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if people couldnt leech in abyssea that they would go back to places like crawlers nest or garlaige citadel.

Try again.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

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Despite what nostalgia makes you think, the vast majority of areas in this game have been virtually empty since ToAU was released.

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reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

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Again nostalgia is fooling you. It has been difficult to find low level gear on the AH for years since the synths for low level gear are generally money losers for crafters. There simply hasn't been enough demand to make these synths for a long time now.

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reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

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It might make a few items more readily available, but overall the materials were placed on the AH by people specifically farming them and not from exp parties.

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reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

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Nostalgia strikes again, the economy has been stagnant for a long time with most synths only being profitable if you can HQ the crap out of them. Again the demand just hasn't been present for a long to really support a ton of crafters and the economy as a whole.

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reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

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If you know what you are doing it is faster to skill up after you hit 90 than to spend weeks or months in old school exp parties trying to keep skills capped as you go.

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reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

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The argument coming from your side is wildly inconsistent on this point. So many of you say that the majority of players don't want to leech in abyssea, but then you say that you can't find parties. Both of the statements can't be true, if there are enough of you opposed then finding an old style party shouldn't take much longer than it did before abyssea existed.

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its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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Come back when you actually know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

1. People will only sync to Eron[S], ToA zones, korroloka tunnel.

2. You dont need good gear to kill collibri or smn burn.

3. See above.

4. See point 2-3

5. Lvl sync will keep skill levels low, or in the case of smn burn skills will be the same as they are now.

6. Shout abyssea pts are 18 man groups, oldschool exp are 6 or less man pts. Abyssea = larger pts and less people seeking. Also there are 9 abyssea zones to choose from, but only 4 for sync (3 collibri, 1 smn burn).

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if people couldnt leech in abyssea that they would go back to places like crawlers nest or garlaige citadel.

Try again.

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lmao i said good reasons that help game dynamis you just proved there are none. and on smn burn pts only two can pull that off at a time so it will still force people to lvl in crawlers nest just like it was before abyssea. your reasons hold no merit at all if you cant list any that help game dynamics to support your claims dont bother wasting my time listing them and your reason 6 18 people=less people seeking you just hurt your own cause because less people seeking is whats creating the problom lmao. and yes people can still leech outside of abyssea but if you remember smn charged people gil for that and in my server people lvled the old ways because they would rather earn what that have rather than waste gil paying a some high lvl to pull the mobs for them.

[QUOTE=Pharaun;39801]Despite what nostalgia makes you think, the vast majority of areas in this game have been virtually empty since ToAU was released.

lol at you is all i can say roflmfao when this game dies people like you will be the ones to blaime.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

lmao i said good reasons that help game dynamis you just proved there are none. and on smn burn pts only two can pull that off at a time so it will still force people to lvl in crawlers nest just like it was before abyssea. your reasons hold no merit at all if you cant list any that help game dynamics to support your claims dont bother wasting my time listing them and your reason 6 18 people=less people seeking you just hurt your own cause because less people seeking is whats creating the problom lmao. and yes people can still leech outside of abyssea but if you remember smn charged people gil for that and in my server people lvled the old ways because they would rather earn what that have rather than waste gil paying a some high lvl to pull the mobs for them.

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You are the only crying about how the system is broken and that things need to change, I dont need to list any reason other than abyssea has worked for months. If it was truly a problem, SE would have patched it by now.

Also, if theres less people seeking then theres less people not exping and therefore people arent stuck in town seeking. If you cant find a party nowadays my advice to you is to start your own pt or just suck less.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

You are the only crying about how the system is broken and that things need to change, I dont need to list any reason other than abyssea has worked for months. If it was truly a problem, SE would have patched it by now.

Also, if theres less people seeking then theres less people not exping and therefore people arent stuck in town seeking. If you cant find a party nowadays my advice to you is to start your own pt or just suck less.

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Or solo an all EP page for 100xp a kill +FOV. You can even do this while seeking.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

lmao i said good reasons that help game dynamis you just proved there are none. and on smn burn pts only two can pull that off at a time so it will still force people to lvl in crawlers nest just like it was before abyssea. your reasons hold no merit at all if you cant list any that help game dynamics to support your claims dont bother wasting my time listing them and your reason 6 18 people=less people seeking you just hurt your own cause because less people seeking is whats creating the problom lmao. and yes people can still leech outside of abyssea but if you remember smn charged people gil for that and in my server people lvled the old ways because they would rather earn what that have rather than waste gil paying a some high lvl to pull the mobs for them.

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Maybe it's because I just woke up from a nap, but I have no idea what the point of this is. I can't follow his train of thought. Someone help me translate.

and on a closing note. (after this im done wasting time explaining this). the opinions expressed in these forums dont really matter anyway. the developers have already increased the xp in areas outisde of abyssea. why do you think they have done this. simply to get people to xp outside of abyssea. once they realise that this is not working what do you think they will do. they obviously are not going to let all that programming they spent so much time on with those zones go to waste do you. no they are going to make a simple adjustment to abyssea such as a lvl restriction or a xp restriction on abyssea to force people away from low lvl leaching in there. they have already started toying with ideas to stop this kind of thing so enjoy it while it lasts.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

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Adding in new "Dynamic Events" to the old areas will breathe new life into the game. Example:

A player walks by Selbina only to see an NPC running away from the town crying while carrying her baby in her arms. Said adventurer goes into town to see more adventurers fighting off pirate NMs, and other players *casting Water on a house to put out a fire*.

Different town, different country, different area = different type of "event".

Also, this doesn't mean people *have* to level this way. The old way of leveling should be kept intact and co-exist with this one.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

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Leveling in these *events* will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

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If people choose to level only through the Dynamic Events, they can get the same rewards and exp as if leveling the old way, thus will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH.

OR people can just level the old way too, since they don't *have to* level in the refreshingly new and fun events.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

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People will need old gear to level in these events, and they'll get the same synthesis materials too!

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

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Leveling in these *events* will allow characters to skill up too!

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

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Anyone of any level will be able to participate in these events. There will be things to do in each event for people of varied levels. Whether solo or in a group!

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Originally Posted by Valaris

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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OR I can just go back to Abyssea leeching cuz SE hasn't implemented my neat ideas yet.

I set my expectations a lot higher than killing nameless mobs so I can reach max level to participate in endgame events.

I wanna be able to be *immersed* in the virtual and go on these events/ADVENTURES!

And if I want to, go and level "the old way" too, cuz just bashing something's head in over and over can be fun too.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

1. People will only sync to Eron[S], ToA zones, korroloka tunnel.

2. You dont need good gear to kill collibri or smn burn.

3. See above.

4. See point 2-3

5. Lvl sync will keep skill levels low, or in the case of smn burn skills will be the same as they are now.

6. Shout abyssea pts are 18 man groups, oldschool exp are 6 or less man pts. Abyssea = larger pts and less people seeking. Also there are 9 abyssea zones to choose from, but only 4 for sync (3 collibri, 1 smn burn).

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if people couldnt leech in abyssea that they would go back to places like crawlers nest or garlaige citadel.

Try again.

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You people fail to understand this, so I will say it again.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Problem with that is Pre-Abyssea level sync was still here and there were TONS of parties in old school spots that weren't just burn or bird parties. Why?

Simple really.

There are only so many parties that these spots can hold.

Pre-Abyssea there was no problem with everyone abusing smn burns and bird parties because more than 2 parties per camp and you wouldn't make it past chain 3, so the camp sucked. This stopped people from abusing and people actually made parties around their level.

Now the only parties outside of Abyssea are Qufim Island and Kazham because they're pre-30.

It's sad, really.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

and on a closing note. (after this im done wasting time explaining this). the opinions expressed in these forums dont really matter anyway. the developers have already increased the xp in areas outisde of abyssea. why do you think they have done this. simply to get people to xp outside of abyssea. once they realise that this is not working what do you think they will do. they obviously are not going to let all that programming they spent so much time on with those zones go to waste do you. no they are going to make a simple adjustment to abyssea such as a lvl restriction or a xp restriction on abyssea to force people away from low lvl leaching in there. they have already started toying with ideas to stop this kind of thing so enjoy it while it lasts.

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It might just be his server. There's plenty of XP outside of abyssea [This way.]

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

You are the only crying about how the system is broken and that things need to change, I dont need to list any reason other than abyssea has worked for months. If it was truly a problem, SE would have patched it by now.

Also, if theres less people seeking then theres less people not exping and therefore people arent stuck in town seeking. If you cant find a party nowadays my advice to you is to start your own pt or just suck less.

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lol i dont xp anymore i have 7 lvl 90 jobs and yes they were 75 long before the server merges and abyssea. i dont plan on lvling anymore jobs. i just dont have the inventory space for it. and suck less you say thats really funny if your on valefor server come pay me a visit and well see how much i suck lol

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Originally Posted by magnius

Maybe it's because I just woke up from a nap, but I have no idea what the point of this is. I can't follow his train of thought. Someone help me translate.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

I'm the new troll of the thread to be made fun of by rational people.

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About sums it up.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

lol at you is all i can say roflmfao when this game dies people like you will be the ones to blaime.

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You obviously have a hard time with reading comprehension so I'll break it down for you. Most people only exp'd in a few select areas and generally on the same type of mobs in the few areas that they did exp in. Raising the cap on abyssea will not cause all of these areas to magically become repopulated, they were dead long before abyssea existed.

Again, please come back when you know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

lol i dont xp anymore i have 7 lvl 90 jobs and yes they were 75 long before the server merges and abyssea. i dont plan on lvling anymore jobs.

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I don't get it then. So why do you care?(Serious question.)

/facepalm

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Problem with that is this: Pre-Abyssea level sync was still here and there were TONS of parties in old school spots that weren't just burn or bird parties. Why?

Simple really.

There are only so many parties that these spots can hold.

Pre-Abyssea there was no problem with everyone abusing smn burns and bird parties because more than 2 parties per camp and you wouldn't make it past chain 3, so the camp sucked. This stopped people from abusing and people actually made parties around their level. Once parties see there are multiple parties in a camp they realize that they should go to a camp that's open. Thus, exp spots that are now dead will be popping and popular.

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Stop saying that level sync is the problem because it's not.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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While I definitely appreciate a response to this thread that is significantly more coherent than Zeitzone's, I'm afraid I'll have to refute a couple of your points:

Counter 1: Even before the release of Abyssea, players were partying in 4 zones total, leaving 95% of them empty. People would solo to 18~ish (or use the Dunes if they were masochists), go to Qufim, then East Ronfaure [S], then Wajaom and Bhaflau to 75. Even before the release of WotG (which was years ago now), players generally only used 4-5 zones for exp'ing. Players have long since identified the most easily accessible and efficient camps in the game. While alternative options do exist (and had to for reasons I will elaborate on in Counter 6), they were as underused as Overworld exp areas are now. Removing Abyssea's EXP options while keeping WotG and ToAU in play will not increase the diversity in leveling locations at all. If anything, you'll be leveling in fewer zones since Abyssea utilizes between 4-7 zones on its own depending on your server (Scars + Heroes + La Theine).

Counter 2: The thing is, low level armor has practically no impact on playing jobs and hasn't in ages. Even if Abyssea were nerfed, people would still only exp in 4 general level ranges; 20~ > 30~ > 55~ > 75. If anything, people would be unable to find armor for their level because there is no profit in crafting it. The majority of the old armor on the Auction House wasn't newly forged, it was armor that people used and then resold. Now, most of this armor is out of the system, either because it's been tossed due to an inability to sell, or it's on a deactivated mule somewhere. As a Smith, I could run around making Solid Mail pieces, but why would I? I take a loss with every synth, even if I HQ, and it's generally a waste of my time.

Counter 3: Abyssea also drops a significantly wider variety of crafting materials than any exp camp in the game. Colibri Feathers and Colibri Beaks aren't used for something important now, are they? Once a player hits level 34~, those are the only crafting mats they'll be getting aside from Wind Crystals. In Abyssea, you can pick up buffalo and dragon meat, essential ingredients in popular foods, as well as high level synthesis mats like Divine Logs and Siren's Hairs. Abyssea promotes crafting on a very large scale.

Counter 4: The game's economy has shifted, but it's hard to say that it is not thriving. In the past, the majority of the best gear in the game required millions of gil to purchase on the AH, or merc for R/EX gear if you weren't in an HNM shell. Whoever could buy enough gil could get a relic and +1 gears. I'm not saying getting Gil was difficult, but there were definitely a choice few who cheated that system. Now, getting the best gear in the game requires going out and actually fighting things. You can't buy a Tantra Cyclas +2 off the AH. You have to go out and kill Gamayun and Alfard a dozen times each if you want one. Granted, you can still pay people to do these things for you, but as a general statement, the amount of Gil in your bank account no longer limits your ability to gear yourself properly.

Items like Grim Cuirass, Alcide's Harness, Hermes' Sandals, Juogis, and Spells of all classes also still sell well on the AH. Consumables like Shihei, and food, are never short on demand. Crafting took a hit with the reduced (read: little to none) demand for mid-level armor like Haubergeons, but at the same time the materials for those armors and higher level pieces became extremely cheap and easy to find because of Abyssea. Demand fell, but so did costs. Fishermen can still pull in millions a week as well, so it's hard to say crafting is entirely dead; or if it is, that Abyssea could fix it.

Counter 5: This is a false comparison. It only takes maybe a day to skill up multiple weapons to cap (which you can do afk on Zvhal Fortalices), and about that much time to skill magics to cap on Hpemde. Unless it actually takes 2-3 days to level 30-90 with all weapons capped (and noting that no WAR in his right mind would use a Scythe in an EXP party, I would kick them so fast) the normal way, leveling in Abyssea and then skilling up afterwards is still significantly faster.

Counter 6: This is the only real argument of any validity I've been hearing. Unfortunately, it relies on one very important premise. If low level players are unable to find parties because no one is exp'ing at low level ranges, then it cannot also be true that there are a large number of players who want to exp at these low level ranges. Now, that's fine, if players who are against Abyssea are a minority then yes this is a problem. Low level players do not have the Cruor or the game experience to create their own Abyssea parties and/or leech in them. It is difficult for a lone new player to get very far on their own. With a social linkshell, however, even new players should be able to find people willing to level sync with them.

Addendum to 6: Also, if Abyssea were removed as a leveling area, one of the biggest faults with FFXI exp would come back into play. That is to say, camp crowding. The best exp camps in the game can only afford 1-2 good parties at a time, maybe 3 if some of the parties are less than stellar. Bhaflau Birds (MMJ and NI RPs) were notorious for this, and often times merit parties would be cancelled entirely despite a solid setup due to a lack of space during prime times. For what good it did to break up leveling into multiple ranges, *fewer* people were able to level at any given time then than do now. Abyssea allowing 18 people in a single party, and having camps whose mob respawns adjust themselves to the rate at which they are being killed constitute the biggest step forward in FFXI EXP history.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

While I definitely appreciate a response to this thread that is significantly more coherent than Zeitzone's, I'm afraid I'll have to refute a couple of your points:

Counter 1: Even before the release of Abyssea, players were partying in 4 zones total, leaving 95% of them empty. People would solo to 18~ish (or use the Dunes if they were masochists), go to Qufim, then East Ronfaure [S], then Wajaom and Bhaflau to 75. Even before the release of WotG (which was years ago now), players generally only used 4-5 zones for exp'ing. Players have long since identified the most easily accessible and efficient camps in the game. While alternative options do exist (and had to for reasons I will elaborate on in Counter 6), they were as underused as Overworld exp areas are now. Removing Abyssea's EXP options while keeping WotG and ToAU in play will not increase the diversity in leveling locations at all. If anything, you'll be leveling in fewer zones since Abyssea utilizes between 4-7 zones on its own depending on your server (Scars + Heroes + La Theine).

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Please read my above post as to why this is a misconception.

Pre-level sync my only 75 was DRK. After sync I leveled DRG and WAR to 75 and never did I have to abuse Colibri or Qufim camps. We exp'd like we did pre-level sync, the only difference was the 2-3 level gaps that many parties experienced that reduced exp was now gone and everyone who was 60-65 could get equal exp in Aydeewa parties instead of having the typical 61-64 level gaps.

[QUOTE=Valaris;39847]

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

Despite what nostalgia makes you think, the vast majority of areas in this game have been virtually empty since ToAU was released.

lol at you is all i can say roflmfao when this game dies people like you will be the ones to blaime.

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I would counter with replacing his name with yours. What he says is true. Merit/EXP places in old areas died when ToAU came out; and a lack of great things to EXP on meant that didn't change at WotG's release.

Honestly, the best part of the recent developments is people are less fussy about jobs. You know how hard it was to level up WHM, SMN, PUP, and some of the less popular DD jobs just because of people only wanting to party with BRDs, SAMs, and RDMs? If you wanted to play those jobs, you were lucky if you could party at all, because people would demand only the "best". Since abyssea, that hardly happens at all anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Please read my above post as to why this is a misconception.

Pre-level sync my only 75 was DRK. After sync I leveled DRG and WAR to 75 and never did I have to abuse Colibri or Qufim camps. We exp'd like we did pre-level sync, the only difference was the 2-3 level gaps that many parties experienced that reduced exp was now gone and everyone who was 60-65 could get equal exp in Aydeewa parties instead of having the typical 61-64 level gaps.

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Just because it happened does not mean that it is the norm. The average player only used Colibri burns the majority of the time. Even then, you're adding, what, 4 zones to the mix if we're being generous (Jungle, Kuftal, Aydeewa, QSC)? That still leaves 85-90% of the zones in the game untouched. Some of them weren't used for exp even when us Dinosaurs were leveling.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Just because it happened does not mean that it is the norm. The average player only used Colibri burns the majority of the time. Even then, you're adding, what, 4 zones to the mix if we're being generous (Jungle, Kuftal, Aydeewa, QSC)? That still leaves 85-90% of the zones in the game untouched. Some of them weren't used for exp even when us Dinosaurs were leveling.

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You're telling me that people didnt exp in dangruf wadi or pso'xja?! Blasphemy! SE NEEDS TO BREATHE NEW LIFE INTO THESE ZONES AND FORCE PEOPLE TO EXP THERE.

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

It depends on your definition of the "whole game".

If all you do is exp, then yes the game is doomed since its very easy to exp nowadays.

If you do endgame events, it remains to be seen what SE has to offer for the future. Abyssea is awesome but it wont last forever, people already have multiple jobs with emp weaps and 5/5 af3+2s. SE has already started working on older events like dynamis.

Take zietzone for example. He sounds like the type of player who is in some BS social shell that does nothing but level because they dont have many older/skilled players. It sounds like its full of noobs who get corrupted by morons like zeitzone who view old exp through rose-tinted glasses and cry all day about abyssea making his previous leveling "accomplishments" null since anyone can get a job 30-90 in one sitting. He can claim all he wants that hes not the minority with his views, but he wont post his gear so we can only imagine the abomination that he calls a "skilled" player.

From zeitzone's perspective, the game is doomed since his archaic way of self aggrandizement is pointless now. He cant just run around claiming hes awesome because he has x# of 75 jobs that are geared awful as sin.

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Lol i bet i did more Endgame as you ever will in the time FFXI has left till its gone.
My gears are pimped out on max dmg but i dont need to pose that, i know my gear is good.
And i prefer a nice slow experience point party becouse it is a fair way to get up, not like leechig.
You guys just dont know the true way of gameing, thats very sad, you allways want to put in the cheat codes by Gothic or Morrowind, and ask friends for Endboss savegames becouse you are too lazy to get the weapons and spells the correct way or get trough the game on own power.

Yes, run away because you are "done feeding the trolls" and not because multiple people prove you wrong. At least I admit to trolling, how about you?

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Originally Posted by Ramsos

Yes, run away because you are "done feeding the trolls" and not because multiple people prove you wrong. At least I admit to trolling, how about you?

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Yeah all you can do is flame at other, hes not runing, hes just bored of the stupidness of a leecher who cryes with all his power to prevent FFXI from working correctly. Guess who that leecher is, you.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Yeah all you can do is flame at other, hes not runing, hes just bored of the stupidnes of a leecher who cryes with all his power to prevent FFXI from working correctly. Guess who that leecher is, you.

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Yes, we are all the stupid ones...

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Just because it happened does not mean that it is the norm. The average player only used Colibri burns the majority of the time. Even then, you're adding, what, 4 zones to the mix if we're being generous (Jungle, Kuftal, Aydeewa, QSC)? That still leaves 85-90% of the zones in the game untouched. Some of them weren't used for exp even when us Dinosaurs were leveling.

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There will always be people attempting to abuse, that simply leaves more zones for people who aren't morons and want to exp in a less crowded spot. Last time I had a Colibri (E Ronfaure) party there were only two parties and the chains were grossly slow because these camps can't support many parties.

I can guarantee you that if this happens there will be people attempting to abuse these areas but they will be the people getting slow exp due to overcrowded camps.

Overcrowded camps = Smart parties moving to different areas. When these different areas get overcrowded people will move elsewhere. When THESE spots are overcrowded people will move elsewhere, and the cycle continues.

I was simply using Aydeewa as an example. Places like CN, Garlaige (Top and bottom) Sauromuge weapon camps, Mount Z, The Boyahda tree, etc were all still used commonly as exp spots. It was only the introduction of Abyssea that made these spots desolate.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

My gears are pimped out on max dmg

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Please, by all means, show me your gear sets. Perhaps, it will change my mind on my way of thinking, and show me the errs of my way.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

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Adding in new "Dynamic Events" to the old areas will breathe new life into the game. Example:

A player walks by Selbina only to see an NPC running away from the town crying while carrying her baby in her arms. Said adventurer goes into town to see more adventurers fighting off pirate NMs, and other players *casting Water on a house to put out a fire*.

Different town, different country, different area = different type of "event".

Also, this doesn't mean people *have* to level this way. The old way of leveling should be kept intact and co-exist with this one.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

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Leveling in these *events* will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

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If people choose to level only through the Dynamic Events, they can get the same rewards and exp as if leveling the old way, thus will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH.

OR people can just level the old way too, since they don't *have to* level in the refreshingly new and fun events.

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

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People will need old gear to level in these events, and they'll get the same synthesis materials too!

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

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Leveling in these *events* will allow characters to skill up too!

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Originally Posted by Valaris

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

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Anyone of any level will be able to participate in these events. There will be things to do in each event for people of varied levels. Whether solo or in a group!

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Originally Posted by Valaris

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

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OR I can just go back to Abyssea leeching cuz SE hasn't implemented my neat ideas yet.

I set my expectations a lot higher than killing nameless mobs so I can reach max level to participate in endgame events.

I wanna be able to be *immersed* in the virtual world and go on these events/ADVENTURES!

And if I want to, go and level "the old way" too, cuz just bashing something's head in over and over can be fun too.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Yes, we are all the stupid ones...

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Im fighting fire with fire.
Ramsos already got on my nerves since his first post same as you, you 2 have no life, you both are in here the whole day and just wait on a message to apear you can flame against, i bet you 2 weight 150KG each, sit all day infront of your PC and eat potatoe chips.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Im fighting fire with fire.
Ramsos already got on my nerves since his first post same as you, you 2 have no life, you both are in here the whole day and just wait on a message to apear you can flame against, i bet you 2 weight 150KG each, sit all day infront of your PC and eat potatoe chips.

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I love potato chips.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Lol i bet i did more Endgame as you ever will in the time FFXI has left till its gone.
My gears are pimped out on max dmg but i dont need to pose that, i know my gear is good.
And i prefer a nice slow experience point party becouse it is a fair way to get up, not like leechig.
You guys just dont know the true way of gameing, thats very sad, you allways want to put in the cheat codes by Gothic or Morrowind, and ask friends for Endboss savegames becouse you are too lazy to get the weapons and spells the correct way or get trough the game on own power. You are pitiful

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More baseless claims. Its not your right to say what way of exping is right or wrong. I never leeched a job to 90, but I want the option if I want to level a new job. You can look me up on ffxiah, I'm not the best but I'm not clueless either. Ive done every endgame event this game has to offer to death. You claim to be "pimped out on max damage", so put up or shut up. If you are better than me (which you should be since I'm not exactly stellar), ill take your broken english seriously. Until then you're just another nameless troll.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I love potato chips.

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omg, me too.

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Originally Posted by magnius

Please, by all means, show me your gear sets. Perhaps, it will change my mind on my way of thinking, and show me the errs of my way.

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I have my own proud, i do not pose, i never did for over 7 years ffxi, and i will not do it now!
I never exposed my char to anyone outside the game.
But if you played on Unicorn im sure you had meet me and the chance is high that i helped you to get your first af or beat CoP, becouse beside endgame i loved to repeat those fights.

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Originally Posted by Zeitzone

Im fighting fire with fire.
Ramsos already got on my nerves since his first post same as you, you 2 have no life, you both are in here the whole day and just wait on a message to apear you can flame against, i bet you 2 weight 150KG each, sit all day infront of your PC and eat potatoe chips.

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Put up or shut up. If you think your gear is so much better than ours, and that you've done more endgame than we ever will, prove it or get out.