Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

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Originally Posted by Panthera

I want to experience that content and I want to be able to group up with people to do just that.

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And abyssea isn't stopping you from doing just that. As I said I've done a lot of parties in old areas.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

And abyssea isn't stopping you from doing just that. As I said I've done a lot of parties in old areas.

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Then tell me how raising the cap to 70~75 would stop people from doing Abyssea?

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Then tell me how raising the cap to 70~75 would stop people from doing Abyssea?

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When did I say it would? Just because 70+ people would keep doing is not a reason to stop lower levels from doing it as well.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

When did I say it would? Just because 70+ people would keep doing is not a reason to stop lower levels from doing it as well.

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Yes it is. You are skimming over a very important point: allowing people to exploit and bypass 80% of the games content is a ridiculous idea.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Yes it is. You are skimming over a very important point: allowing people to exploit and bypass 80% of the games content is a ridiculous idea.

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No it's not. You're missing the point:

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Originally Posted by Akujima

I want to experience that content and I want to be able to group up with people to do just that.

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you can still do the content. you can still find people willing to do it. But just because you want old content does not mean SE should limit other players who want to skip it.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

But just because you want old content does not mean SE should limit other players who want to skip it.

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Name another successful MMO that does that. Name another MMO that allows players to LvUp quickly through the first few levels, and then allow them to skyrocket their way to endgame, completely surpassing 80% of the entire map, 90% of the missions, 75% of the quests and 95% storyline.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Name another successful MMO that does that. Name another MMO that allows players to LvUp quickly through the first few levels, and then allow them to skyrocket their way to endgame, completely surpassing 80% of the entire map, 90% of the missions, 75% of the quests and 95% storyline.

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WoW?


You can get from 15 to 80 and never leave Stormwind/Orgrimmar via the dungeon tool or BGs. a few of my alts had next to no maps and never did a single quest (past 15 that is, when dungeons get unlocked) until they reached 80.

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Name another successful MMO that does that. Name another MMO that allows players to LvUp quickly through the first few levels, and then allow them to skyrocket their way to endgame, completely surpassing 80% of the entire map, 90% of the missions, 75% of the quests and 95% storyline.

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Most of us already went through that in this game. While the side effects of Abyss are quite apparent, it's totally intentional by SE, and it's a breath of fresh air for the people who've been grinding for ~8 years.

Also, why does every MMO have to fit the same mold? Fresh ideas in games are few and far between these days and should be encouraged IMO.

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Akujima how long have you played the game if you dont mind?

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^ still curious of that, if you started pre-CoP then you should have learned a long time ago to get over it because XP got nothing but easier and easier and easier for people. If you started during ToAU you should not be complaining at all nor should anyone else who started around that time because exp became easily 50x quicker to get than previous years. It's a natural progression of quicker and easier exp as the game goes on. If you are a pre CoP player then you should have learned to deal with it by now, if you're a ToAUish player then you're just being a baby cause xp was technically spoon-fed to you at that point as compared to previous years.

B4 Zilart I dunno how they exp'd my guess is probably very slowly >>>>> After Zilart you had basic camps Gar/CN/Moon/Sky also exp was a fair amount higher per lvl when I got my first 75, >>>>> exp nerf >>>>> CoP Bibiki/Uleg/and a fair amount of new zones so that you were not fighting for days with other parties >>>>> Toau >>>>> Tons of great camps great for soloing and great for exping, generally 3x or more the exp that you had seen before in previous zone camps. Also wayyy more level 75 camps to instead of pretty much just sky. >>>>> Wotg, More viable camps with the addition of campaign for extra exp on the side to make your levels quicker and "bypass" other content in the game if you so chose to go a campaign leveling route. >>>>> Now Abyssea... ppl have suffered the exp grind long enough let them enjoy the rest of the game its silly to try to hate on aby just cause people can get lvl'd in a shorter amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Sesh

still curious of that,

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I've played since NA release but took a 3 year break just before ToAU came out. So by the time I got back, WoTG was already setup and was midway through. I've been playing ever since then and have been taking short breaks on and off for a couple of months here and there, due to IRL.

Am I wrong though then? Playing since years back you should have seen the natural progression of easier exp it should be something that doesn't bother you anymore by this point. Take pride in the fact that you level jobs when exp was hard and you suffered through it. The noobs leveling to 90 in a day or whatnot can't take that away from you so just brush it off and enjoy what other aspects of the game you still like doing.

where are these noobs getting 90 in a day?

I think people are over-estimating how easy it is for someone starting from scratch to get in on Abyssea exp. My experience has been of sad horrible slow soloing - especially now that I am over 65. I would rather SE made it more feasible for people like me to actually be able to participate in Abyssea vs. being stuck in a horror show of grotesquely boring grinding, alone.

I mean the one thing the old days had over the new days is that at least in the old days one could pick up a job that was needed in parties and get your first job to cap.

Now... ugh. I hope you like soloing if you don't have cruor or an army of friends who want to powerlevel you

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Originally Posted by Olor

I would rather SE made it more feasible for people like me to actually be able to participate in Abyssea vs. being stuck in a horror show of grotesquely boring grinding, alone.

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The only reason you're out there grinding alone, is because all the veterans are leeching inside Abyssea, instead of outside PT'ing with you.

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Originally Posted by Olor

where are these noobs getting 90 in a day?

I think people are over-estimating how easy it is for someone starting from scratch to get in on Abyssea exp. My experience has been of sad horrible slow soloing - especially now that I am over 65. I would rather SE made it more feasible for people like me to actually be able to participate in Abyssea vs. being stuck in a horror show of grotesquely boring grinding, alone.

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I dunno how it is on other servers but Phoenix has leech pay2play FC's average around 150k an hour or so (titan b4 they merged with us said they let all leeches in for free etc which I don't believe but that besides the point) My group charges 500k for 6 hours (the first hour is free cause that involves getting lights etc) and in those 6 hours we always get all the payee's from 30 to no less than 85+ most of the time we go a lil extra and most walk away with 90 in about 6 hours time. Is it fair to the old players? No. But times change and we have to embrace the change if we continue to play. If we don't embrace it then you'll just end up miserable and bitter, and at that point is there really any reason to play anymore? I dunno, there wouldn't be a reason for me at least.

Note: Someone brand new who has to do genkai still has some work to do for sure, but I think it's safe to state that many of these leeches are still "noobs" in a general sense in the fact that even after all genkai are done they don't know what they're doing most likely.

Yeah, well, I don't think the solution is to nerf abyssea. I would much rather see SE create comparable exp elsewhere. I am pretty confident that most people would rather do something they participate in rather than leech. I don't blame anyone for wanting out of the terrible grind and frankly I don't want to force people to go through what I am going through right now, with or without a party.

GoV is a step in the right direction - (where mob placement isn't stupid anyway) - however - it is more useful for low level people than high level people because of the mob HP issue. It just takes too long to take down 60+ mobs for it not to feel like an agonizing chore regardless of page exp.

Honestly - it is the kill time that annoys the crap outta me more than anything.

Anyway, I would much rather SE make events like besieged and campaign as rewarding as Abyssea so that people 50-75 don't have to choose between either agonizingly slow grinding or afk/keying in abyssea.

I tried to solo campaign but it was not as fun as I remember it being with lots of people and I died and with no raise, I ended up wasting an hour (running back and forth, renewing my medal etc) and getting no exp.

Christ I remember when WotG first came out, doing campaign as a 40 whm, and when I died people practically fought over being able to raise me.

Anyway, sad to see the event abandoned. I am all for giving people choice so I don't think that raising the level for people to enter Abyssea is the solution. People just need to be given a real choice. Right now you'd have to be a complete idiot to choose the slow horrible grind over Abyseaa if you have the option.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

leeching is free and not against the TOS, terrible example is terrible.

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I didn't say that leeching was against TOS. I didn't say leeching wasn't free. And it's not an example, it's a metaphor. Well trolled, sir.

What I meant by the metaphor is that while having a level 90 job and doing end game events is supposed to be fun (i.e. having the model airplane), leveling is supposed to be fun in and of itself(building the plane).

Leeching used to mean coming as a less powerful job to an otherwise strong party, but at least you did what you could for what it's worth. We used the term "leeching" inaccurately, for lack of a better word. Leeching now standing around and contributing nothing while the rest of the ally does the work. Now we can use the term leeching to mean what it means.

Honestly, what's the point? Standing around while everyone does the work so you can get to max level, so you can stand around and wait to proc something if you can, or wait for the kill order...what has this game come to?

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Originally Posted by Panthera

Obviously, those with the best gear and focus on task contribute the most damage, yet everyone benefits equally in experience points. But that does not mean that those who contribute less contribute nothing, which seems to be what you contend. An unequal symbiosis? I'll give you that, but calling a level 90 in full Aurora a leech is hyperbolic, just as hyperbolic as these mythical champions that everyone else just leeches off of. What bothers me are people who go AFK indefinately and nothing is done about it. That's leeching.

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Wow, ahahaha, I couldn't stop laughing at that part... This guy seriously believes he's some kind of God amongst men.

Way to post, Panthera.

@OP: Yes, that's how it should be.

Why it's not that way: Leveling 1~75 SUCKED. It was horrible. If you think its any different than the mind numbing disgusting idea that is general ToM, then you are silly and quite frankly so biased to the point where fact just goes straight through you. ToM = killing the same mob until you finish a trial. Leveling up = killing the same mob until you finish a number of levels. How is it anything other than that? You can say that you needed a certain setup and skill set to kill mobs to level up, but really it boiled down to NIN BRD RDM THF DD DD (you could even leave out enmity control if your NIN had half a brain to buy both SH and Haubergeon).

If you liked old-style leveling but dislike ToM, then take off the nostalgia goggles. You liked playing a game because you were playing it.

Go play FFXI, if you're not having fun go play something else. Stop trolling these forums with the same rehashed point. Seriously all of your posts/threads say the same thing: "QQ I am somewhat displeased that this game has changed for the first time in 8 years! I want to go do the same thing over and over again like I used to!"

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Stop trolling these forums with the same rehashed point. Seriously all of your posts/threads say the same thing: "QQ I am somewhat displeased that this game has changed for the first time in 8 years! I want to go do the same thing over and over again like I used to!"

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Actually I've made a total of 4 threads so far, 4/4 of them being hot topics and all having around 10 or so thumbs up.

If you think I'm QQ'ing, then you obviously don't know how to take a joke. Some of my posts are meant to be satirical, while others just simply have some humor thrown in. Most of my posts bring up very good valid points that I think aren't being given enough attention, other posts are to support people whom also make very strong points about the related topic. If this weren't true, then those threads would get very little replies or none at all.

What usually happens is people pick them apart and point out very very minor inconsistencies, all in an attempt to stray away from the topic at hand.

No, I don't like ToM. And using the excuse of doing something over and over again can back-fire on you pretty easily. At least when you hit 75 back before they announced the LvCap increase, there was a variety of endgame content to do. Now at Lv90, you're stuck with doing Abyssea, over and over again.

I really want to know what all this content is that people are "missing out on" as a result of being able to level up faster.

Garrison? Eco-Warrior?

Tell me it isn't because you actually MISS killing 58 bajillion of 87 different types of crab, 43 different types of beetle and several different variations of pink tucan?

Top heavy game is top heavy. The very best parts of FFXI, the very best stories, the fiercest monsters, the craziest battles, the events that are the most fun, all require you to be strong enough (high level) to participate.

Making this easier to accomplish was the BEST thing SE ever did for new players coming in.

FFXI has a playerbase that is nearly a decade old with very few actual new players exploring Vana'diel. How do you keep old players happy? Is it by dragging out the arbitrary low level grinds? Or is by adding more challenging end game content for these leveled up adventurers to a tackle?

How do you accomodate new players that want to be a part of a decade old playerbase? Do you force them to grind out over the same significant amount of time that we had to? Or do you allow them to level up quickly and join the rest of the playerbase that is tackling this exciting endgame content?

The age of the game is the neccesity for abyssea the way it is. Placing a level cap there would hurt EVERYONE.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Actually I've made a total of 4 threads so far, 4/4 of them being hot topics and all having around 10 or so thumbs up.

If you think I'm QQ'ing, then you obviously don't know how to take a joke. Some of my posts are meant to be satirical, while others just simply have some humor thrown in. Most of my posts bring up very good valid points that I think aren't being given enough attention, other posts are to support people whom also make very strong points about the related topic. If this weren't true, then those threads would get very little replies or none at all.

What usually happens is people pick them apart and point out very very minor inconsistencies, all in an attempt to stray away from the topic at hand.

No, I don't like ToM. And using the excuse of doing something over and over again can back-fire on you pretty easily. At least when you hit 75 back before they announced the LvCap increase, there was a variety of endgame content to do. Now at Lv90, you're stuck with doing Abyssea, over and over again.

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As if 10 anonymous likes means anything when the only way to go is up. I'm sure you would be quite displeased if there was a dislike button.

That variety of endgame is still there. Limbus still has some things to offer most players (as now almost everyone has several jobs leveled), Dynamis also has niche pieces for the true perfectionist, Salvage, ZNM, HNM, all have their place its just not as big as it used to be.

And how different is Abyssea from HNM or ZNM anyway? You fight a few small mobs to fight a big mob to get a reward. The only thing that is really different is you have more factors to look at (Lights/time/staggers). You can't tell me there were more challenging fights at 75 than there are now (After MPK was taken out who really wiped back at 75 on anything other than AV and Pandy warden? Maybe death house in dyna-windy when you had to deal with idiots, and idiots will still cause wipes in aby, btw.) Either way the only real difference is that there is less time involved. You don't have to wait for everything anymore or grind out ridiculous amounts of Zeni.

Old content is even more played now with augmentable gear. (Adaberk has risen to the top again with STP and DA on it, out-mathing AF3+2 for WAR apparently)

Also, the game was at 75 for YEARS. You can't argue that it still doesn't have the potential of tons of content at true end game (99) as it did at 75. In fact there are so many things to do in Abyssea just from 80-90 and even now outside of Abyssea with viable gear that is probably on-par with AF3+2, that how can you be so pessimistic about the way the game is going now?

Take off the nostalgia goggles.

Although I will say that being able to Brew anything you want is a piss-poor idea.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

As if 10 anonymous likes means anything when the only way to go is up. I'm sure you would be quite displeased if there was a dislike button.[/U]

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A "Dislike" button would only promote more bias and would create so much tension on these forums, people would be afraid to make a thread.

I might see some things from a nostalgic point of view, but you're making it out as if nostalgia is always 100% incorrect. Alot of people seem to agree with how the game ran before Abyss anyways, so I'll continue to make threads like these. At least its better than strolling into threads you didn't even create, tackling the OP to gain "ego points".

There are some people on here with a 1000+ posts, that haven't even started a thread of their own. What do you think that tells you?

Quality > Quantity, my good friend.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

A "Dislike" button would only promote more bias and would create so much tension on these forums, people would be afraid to make a thread.

I might see some things from a nostalgic point of view, but you're making it out as if nostalgia is always 100% incorrect. Alot of people seem to agree with how the game ran before Abyss anyways, so I'll continue to make threads like these. At least its better than strolling into threads you didn't even create, tackling the OP to gain "ego points".

There are some people on here with a 1000+ posts, that haven't even started a thread of their own. What do you think that tells you?

Quality > Quantity, my good friend.

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I like how the only thing you got out of my post was what was particularly directed towards you. And actually, you're posts are almost all completely similar and go back to the initial point I made note of earlier. "WE WANT OLD GRINDS BACK."

I wish people were afraid to make threads, 80% of the threads can be boiled down to the same thing as all of these "QQ ABYSSEA" threads. If this forum had come out when the game had, we'd have archives upon libraries of "QQ DYNAMIS RELICS TAKE TOO LONG" "QQ LEVELING TAKES TOO LONG" "QQ FARMING ZENI TAKES TOO LONG" "QQ HNM REPOPS ARE STUPID" "QQ GARRISON IS TOO HARD FOR NO REWARD" "QQ SIGNET IS USELESS COMPARED TO SANCTION" "QQ LOLIBRI ARE TOO EASY" "QQ DIORITE DOESNT DROP" "QQ TOO HARD TO GET TO KIRIN" "QQ ULTIMA POPS ARE TOO HARD TO MAKE" Point is there's always someone complaining about something. The ones complaining are just louder than those who are actually out there playing the game and living their lives.

P.S. Look at your tags, none of which were added by me.

The problem:

One group of people want to leech from 30 to 70
One group of people want to exp party from 30 to 70
There are fewer people levelling from 30 to 70 outside of Abyssea because group 1 exist. But then hasn't group 1 always existed? The game has fewer players these days, so it prevails as a problem. Aby makes it easier for group 1, granted, but it keeps group 1 playing.

My solution:

Make parties between level 30 and 70 more appealing. Why punish people when you can just reward them instead? I think there are number of ways of doing that:

New exciting content - perhaps a version of Campaign or Besieged for lower levels. Or something new altogether.
Skill Ups - if a level sync party to say, level 45, were to give a level 90 skill ups, then I'm sure more level 90s would prefer to party for their skills up (and learn to play their job if they haven't done already) as sitting in The Boyahda Tree (for example) can be quite boring. The new Grounds of Valor offer people skill ups as reward, I don't know if a person can be level synced and still get skill ups, if so then maybe the solution is there and more people need to discover it, or if not, then that's a system where it could be worked into.
A combination of the two - it'd give more of an incentive for level 70+s to participate in new lower level content.

Whenever I see someone complaining about how it's impossible to level the old way, I think of pre-level sync / pre-FoV / pre-ToAU days when you could /sea all 50-55 inv, get 3 people, but they're all melees, and you could only solo, with no signet buffs or kupowers. Soloing a low EP then was about the same as soloing an EM now. You would get less than half the current xp per kill, since xp on mobs has been boosted twice. Back then, a standard pickup party pre-75 could get 3k/hr and be considered GOOD. If you never went through all that, stop complaining about how Abyssea made leveling easy.

ToAU was a huge boost to the speed of levelling due to large numbers of extremely weak mobs. It also introduced sigil bonuses, which had never been seen before; everyone got +15% xp on all kills, and could have regen, refresh, or extended food duration instead of being limited to gathering CP and getting crystals.

After level sync, smn burn from 10-75 appeared. It is still present, and all the "leech" does is stand in one place while the smns use astral flow. No skillups, no effort, no "learning your job," and they don't even contribute by opening chests (which costs quite a lot of cruor).

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Originally Posted by Panthera

What I meant by the metaphor is that while having a level 90 job and doing end game events is supposed to be fun (i.e. having the model airplane), leveling is supposed to be fun in and of itself(building the plane).

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Again, no one is stopping you from leveling the old way. And just because you think it's fun shouldn't restrict others from doing other things when they don't think it's fun.

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Originally Posted by Olor

where are these noobs getting 90 in a day?

I think people are over-estimating how easy it is for someone starting from scratch to get in on Abyssea exp. My experience has been of sad horrible slow soloing - especially now that I am over 65. I would rather SE made it more feasible for people like me to actually be able to participate in Abyssea vs. being stuck in a horror show of grotesquely boring grinding, alone.

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You can still make yourself a party. No one is stopping you and there are always enough people seeking.



I feel like a broken record. I am a cheapskate when it comes to gil. I've only leeched one job so far, the rest I've been xping in the normal way. I like leeching, I like my gil even more. There is only once in awhile where I can't get a pt but that's usually because 5+ other people of the same job are seeking at the same time. That is no different than the way it used to be either. If you think otherwise you're looking through your nostalgia glasses backwards. As long as there's a tank and a healer up you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to make a party and find somewhere level sync appropriate.

there is nothing stopping you from xping the old way, so leave other people who don't want to alone.

There are not, "always enough people seeking" - give me a break.

That said, I agree with you on the point people should not be forced to exp the old way - because frankly, it sucks.

Which is why there are NOT "always enough people seeking"

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Originally Posted by Olor

There are not, "always enough people seeking" - give me a break.

That said, I agree with you on the point people should not be forced to exp the old way - because frankly, it sucks.

Which is why there are NOT "always enough people seeking"

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It's not 100% That's true. but again I've had better luck getting parties when I came back to the game than I did before abyssea.

I remember it taking 3-4 days just to get a party on a DD job. Now it's only once in awhile I get unlucky for 1 day.

As the old ways, and as I said earlier, the issue is tanks, but again that is not because all the tanks are in abyssea leeching, and has been an issue for a long time.


I feel that people that whine never leveled DD jobs before level sync, or at least have forgotten what that was like in comparison to now.

I started playing before level sync... but I never got above 60 till now... on this char.

I think several things make it worse than it used to be:

1) You see other people go from 65-90 in three hours - which makes spending three hours to get a single level seem even more painful

2) Ironically making exp so easy to get and plentiful before level 60 makes it ALL THE MORE STARK and horrible when you get up to 65+ and exp is so frigging slow

3) The real lack of traditional parties because anyone who is not a masochist, who has a handle on Abyssea and a way in, is doing Abyssea, not forming parties on the outside

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

The problem:

One group of people want to leech from 30 to 70
One group of people want to exp party from 30 to 70
There are fewer people levelling from 30 to 70 outside of Abyssea because group 1 exist. But then hasn't group 1 always existed? The game has fewer players these days, so it prevails as a problem. Aby makes it easier for group 1, granted, but it keeps group 1 playing.

My solution:

Make parties between level 30 and 70 more appealing. Why punish people when you can just reward them instead? I think there are number of ways of doing that:

New exciting content - perhaps a version of Campaign or Besieged for lower levels. Or something new altogether.
Skill Ups - if a level sync party to say, level 45, were to give a level 90 skill ups, then I'm sure more level 90s would prefer to party for their skills up (and learn to play their job if they haven't done already) as sitting in The Boyahda Tree (for example) can be quite boring. The new Grounds of Valor offer people skill ups as reward, I don't know if a person can be level synced and still get skill ups, if so then maybe the solution is there and more people need to discover it, or if not, then that's a system where it could be worked into.
A combination of the two - it'd give more of an incentive for level 70+s to participate in new lower level content.

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SE failed to see this when Aby came out and they continue to fail making changing. It wouldn't be so hard to make 30-70 outside aby interesting and reward more xp/CP.

Olor, every post ive read from you in multiple threads boils down to: "QQ make it easier", its getting very annoying.

The only issue I have is that the current exp is like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1132077/images/expcurrent.png

When what I think it makes sense that it should look like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1132077/images/expshouldbe.png

-edit-
and why can't i put images directly in my post :(.

Now, exp per kill might have been sorted out outside of abyssea, we can get 500 exp from chain5 and stuff. All that's needed now is to make us able to kill things faster.

Another thing, and i've said this many times before but i think it is pretty important. Many FoV pages aren't worth doing anymore, not because the mobs on the page is hard, but because running back to the page to get another takes more time than it does to kill two-three more enemies, and the exp bonus you get from the page is less than the exp of 2-3 enemies now after the exp buff.

Solution? Let the FoV page exp bonus get the same increase as the exp per kill got. Or perhaps even a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Heady

Olor, every post ive read from you in multiple threads boils down to: "QQ make it easier", its getting very annoying.

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No, I am not asking for it to be made easier... I am asking for the devs to fix the world outside of Abyssea so that we have a choice beyond

a) leech
b) suffer

That is all.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

The only issue I have is that the current exp is like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1132077/images/expcurrent.png

When what I think it makes sense that it should look like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1132077/images/expshouldbe.png

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This is exactly my complaint. Thanks for putting it in graphic form.

I don't think the level limit needs to be raised on Abyssea. Why? Because if a new player were to start, and miraculously get to 30, he or she can then begin to accumulate traverser stones. Need I say more?

The limit was 30+ because SE realized that new players, or even people without 70+ yet, should not be shafted and rather be rewarded in allowing them the ability to enable traverser stone accumulation. It would be unfair, in a sense, to restrict it to only level 70s or higher.

It's also 30+ because there are select quests that can be done without engaging a monster. If I were level 30-69 and interested in Abyssea I would do these quests simply because I know that later down the road they'll help me. If I'm not mistaken, Resistance Ops in the Scars areas can be done level by 30+ players as well. That is all the more helpful; though I won't lie, I doubt anyone below 70 does Bastion let alone the Resistance Ops (which I never see anyone do...).

The real problem with lower level partying is just that: it's lower level partying, and it's slower. Remember when the cap was 75, and you could get 20k/hr (40k/hr if you had the right setup & insanely good) in Aht Urhgan, and you dreaded having to go back to the 6k/hr max possible (without ring) partying?

Now is like then and vice versa, except now we have Abyssea. We have insane EXP/hr, breaking over 100k/hr easily. That's 500% more than your awesome 20k/hr. High level partying has become faster, low level partying used to be the same, but it's slightly faster now. The only thing keeping it from rivaling Abyssea and making it worthwhile: monster strength and difficulty. It takes not even 15-20 seconds in most good Abyssea groups to kill a mob. In most lower level parties, it's easily at least a minute that passes by before the mob is dead.

I just don't understand the logic behind getting more experience from running around popping chests for two hours, than from running around stabbing monsters that could kill you for two hours.

I'm not saying abyssea exp is too fast or should be nerfed, I'm saying it's just dumb that you gain levels slower by doing something that actually looks like it would make you stronger.

So doing things that it makes sense that would make you stronger should probably make you stronger faster.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

So doing things that it makes sense that would make you stronger should probably make you stronger faster.

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This. If XP outside Abyssea was anywhere near as good as that from opening boxes, most people wouldn't bother begging for a leech spot. The solution isn't to raise the minimum level of Abyssea, it's to boost XP dramatically when leveling the normal way.

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

This. If XP outside Abyssea was anywhere near as good as that from opening boxes, most people wouldn't bother begging for a leech spot. The solution isn't to raise the minimum level of Abyssea, it's to boost XP dramatically when leveling the normal way.

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They already did, but all of a sudden you find people not buying gear for their jobs because the cost greatly out weighs the benefits you get for the incredibly short time you have it.

You can get 2 levels per MMM pretty much without rings now, assuming you can 100% per run, up until level 50ish, then you'll start getting 1 level per MMM. This means you'll have decent gear for probably an hour before it becomes out dated by your new level.

You can buy then sell it back quickly for similar market price, however to be well geared at any given time would require a somewhat large stockpile of gil, and new players just can't accumulate gil easily like an Abyssea player could (Gil->Cruor rate is like 1gil=2.2cruor or something, while Gil->Dom Pt.s rate is like 1gil=2.5Dom Pt.s).

Without the slow ways of the old it's just not justifiable to have good gear at any given time when playing the game (excluding the long lasting pieces like Peacock Charm, Ochiudo's Kote, Haubergeon, Scorpion Harness, and the like).

This isn't such a big problem, but it can be attributed as one of the reasons your kills are so slow outside of abyssea. That and you're probably not using Qufim->E Ronf [S]->Wajaom->Caedarva->Bhaflau level syncs.