Common Courtesy

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Originally Posted by Linh

Beastly Shank was part of the original deal yes. I was to be allowed to lot the BB item if it dropped on any orb (instead of only lotting it on my orb, since it is a YOYD) in return for giving up the Beastly Shank from my orb.

Following Pewpeww's logic, I was not even guaranteed the Tongue EVEN IF IT DROPS. Cuz by that logic, I'm only allowed to lot it right? Not win it.

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Okay no. You're 100% in the wrong. Thanks for making this thread. Sure, it backfired for you. But the rest of us know who never to invite to things.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Okay no. You're 100% in the wrong. Thanks for making this thread. Sure, it backfired for you. But the rest of us know who never to invite to things.

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So if Behemoth Tongue had dropped I'm only allowed to lot it right, and not win it? And I have to give up my Beastly Shank regardless?

Wtf pewpeww is kind of notorious for a douchebag on caitsith that left he was always stealing shit LS banks and the sort~

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Originally Posted by Linh

So if Behemoth Tongue had dropped I'm only allowed to lot it right, and not win it? And I have to give up my Beastly Shank regardless?

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Yes. You're already lotting on someone else's orb. That doesn't guarantee you a win on the lot. That means you're lotting on someone else's orb. It's not anyone else's fault that you made what appears to be a stupid deal for you and then got greedy. Because that's all that happened.

The deal was you had the opportunity to lot a drop which was not yours if it dropped, in exchange for a 100% drop from your orb. You took their concession and then ran. You scammed them. They just got lucky that they lost nothing from it.

I don't care how notorious Futchy is. I know all about Futchy. That doesn't mean this guy is any less guilty.

Edit: Hell, if this guy even knew who Futchy was and was intentionally trying to scam him because it's freaking Futchy, I'd have just laughed and been okay with it. But this guy does not know who Futchy is, and this could have just as easily happened to some other random person.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Yes. You're already lotting on someone else's orb. That doesn't guarantee you a win on the lot...

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That's treating your fellow man like crap, and you know it.

That is them doing you a favor and saying "Even though this is supposed to be mine according to the rules, I will give you the opportunity to cast lots on it in exchange for X."

You know what common courtesy really is, buddy?

If someone offers you the chance to lot on their orb without any strings attached, common courtesy is letting them lot something from your orb that they want with no strings attached. Unfortunately, common courtesy is rare these days and people just take something for nothing whenever they can get it. Thus people make arrangements before events in order to ensure that some form of equity is maintained.

Common Courtesy:
Player A shouts to give away AF3 feet they don't need.
Player B gets said boots from Player A, and thanks him by tipping him in some fashion, usually 50k or 100k for their trouble.

Common Practice Situation A:
Player A shouts to give away AF3 feet they don't need
Player B takes the feet and disbands, forgetting the guy's name within a couple days and neither paying forward or paying back the favor.

Common Practice Situation B:
Player A shouts to sell AF3 boots they don't need for 50k because no one has common courtesy these days
Player B freaks out, calls Player A a prick, makes a warning thread about them on FFXIAH, and otherwise verbally abuses someone whose only expectation was that people reciprocated his courtesy. He could have just let the chest depop.

People who can only take favors and can never repay them or return them in kind are just leeches on the system.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

That is them doing you a favor and saying "Even though this is supposed to be mine according to the rules, I will give you the opportunity to cast lots on it in exchange for X."

You know what common courtesy really is, buddy?

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Not treating your fellow man like crap by making it so he can only lot the item and not even win it^-^

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Yes. You're already lotting on someone else's orb. That doesn't guarantee you a win on the lot.

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It wasn't until we were at Ronfaure and after I supposedly convinced Pewpeww that Behemoth Tongue still dropped from KS99 (cuz he said it didn't anymore) that he sent me this /tell with the agreement.

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So he accepted the original deal based on the fact that he thought BB item didn't drop.

SCUMBAG.

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If someone offers you the chance to lot on their orb without any strings attached, common courtesy is letting them lot something from your orb that they want with no strings attached.

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What are you smoking? 100% right to lot on the Shank should result in 100% right to lot on the first BB item.

What part of the transition from:

"This is YPYD, you cannot lot on anyone else's stuff no matter how much you want it"

to

"This is YPYD, but you're welcome to cast a lot on Behemoth Tongue if it drops on my orb if you want"

do you not understand? Christ, some people have absolutely no sense of common decency.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

So he accepted the original deal based on the fact that he thought BB item didn't drop.

SCUMBAG.

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You're misreading his post. Here are things in order:

1) Pewpeww did not know Behe Tongue dropped from KS99, and sets up the run as YPYD.
2) Linh gets to Ronfaure and convinces Pewpeww that Behe Tongue drops from KS99
3) Pewpeww then proposes the deal to allow Linh to lot Tongue on all orbs in exchange for his Pop
4) Linh agrees to this proposal.
5) The first two KS99 are fought and won
6) Linh pulls back on the original agreement and warps.

Edit2:

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Originally Posted by blowfin

What are you smoking? 100% right to lot on the Shank should result in 100% right to lot on the first BB item.

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Except that's exactly what I said. If they're both free lotting the tongue, he would just free lot his shank. If he's solo lotting the tongue, they're solo lotting his shank. I never said he would be free lotting the tongue and then not lotting his own shank. That's just your misinterpretation.

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1) Pewpeww did not know Behe Tongue dropped from KS99, and sets up the run as YOYD.
1a) Pewpeww accepts the deal thinking he's getting a free shot at a HQ pop item
2) Linh gets to Ronfaure and convinces Pewpeww that Behe Tongue drops from KS99
3) Pewpeww then proposes the deal to allow Linh to lot Tongue on all orbs in exchange for his Pop
4) Linh agrees to this proposal.
5) The first two KS99 are fought and won
6) Linh pulls back on the original agreement and warps.

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More like the above. Both parties are at fault really. I just don't think you need to go quite so far with vilifying the OP to be perfectly honest.

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Except that's exactly what I said. If they're both free lotting the tongue, he would just free lot his shank. If he's solo lotting the tongue, they're solo lotting his shank. I never said he would be free lotting the tongue and then not lotting his own shank. That's just your misinterpretation.

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Needed more clarity really. You implied that it would be fine for the other members to lot on the same tongue too.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

...Except that's exactly what I said. If they're both free lotting the tongue, he would just free lot his shank. If he's solo lotting the tongue, they're solo lotting his shank. I never said he would be free lotting the tongue and then not lotting his own shank. That's just your misinterpretation.

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This is exactly the type of Confidence Man tactic I've been talking about.

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If they're both free lotting the tongue, he would just free lot his shank. If he's solo lotting the tongue, they're solo lotting his shank. I never said he would be free lotting the tongue and then not lotting his own shank.

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And yes, you did.

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Yes. You're already lotting on someone else's orb. That doesn't guarantee you a win on the lot.

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Originally Posted by Linh

This is exactly the type of Confidence Man tactic I've been talking about.

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No, that's the deal you accepted straight up. Is it what I would expect to happen without an arrangement between two courteous people? Not at all. But once you make an agreement, you stick to it. If you aren't clear on something, you straighten it out before anything starts.

@Blowfin, I realize the OP didn't cause anyone serious harm in the end. I also realize Futchy is absolute scum and I am in no way defending his intentions, his history, or his character.

However, he did come in here making a thread about common courtesy when he himself has shown absolutely none, while repeatedly attempting to vilify someone who hadn't done anything wrong in this particular scenario. Did Futchy have the best intentions? Probably not. In fact I'm sure he had horrible intentions. But he didn't trick the OP into doing anything. He said "You can lot on Tongues on our orb if you give us your shank", and the OP agreed to it. The OP did not, or does not, even know who Futchy is so it could have very well been anyone else that this happened to.

If someone says "I'll fight Alfard for you and let you lot Widowmaker if it drops if you pay me 10Mil", and someone agrees, kills the NM, and then warps without paying if the Axe doesn't drop, which person is the scammer and which is the scamee?

Edit: I still think we're missing each other.

Situation A: The OP is allowed to lot on the tongue with orb owner A despite it being YOYD.
Expected result: Orb owner A lots with OP on the OP's Shank.

Situation B: The OP is allowed 100% dibs on the first tongue.
Expected result: Orb owner A is given 100% rights to OP's Shank.

Yes, I believe these situations are a good deal. However, people are allowed to make deals that are not good. That does not mean anyone is being misleading. That simply means the person who takes the bad deal is an idiot.

Do I think the OP's deal was very fair? No. It was very one-sided. But, frankly, the OP shouldn't have agreed to it if that was the case. Even then, it should be mentioned that it was never explicitly stated that anyone but the OP would be lotting on Behemoth Tongues. The fact of the matter is that none dropped, and the OP left specifically because there was the possibility that 0 tongues would drop and he would still be expected to give up his shank because that was the deal.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

No, that's the deal you accepted straight up.

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Not what I accepted straight up. From what you stated, this was all Confidence Man tactic. period.

The point I am getting out of this is that there is no way Pewpew can lose out on this deal. The reasonable thing would be to let the op get his shank if he didn't get a tongue and then get together to do the king behemoth fight. He already got his two shanks with OPs help, he could just let the op keep his shanks to preserve his chance to get to get the tongue.

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Not what I accepted straight up. From what you stated, this was all Confidence Man tactic. period.

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So what changed, you expected to be able to lot on the shank too, and then you were told you weren't able to?

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Originally Posted by Arlynne

The point I am getting out of this is that there is no way Pewpew can lose out on this deal. The reasonable thing would be to let the op get his shank if he didn't get a tongue and then get together to do the king behemoth fight. He already got his two shanks with OPs help, he could just let the op keep his shanks to preserve his chance to get to get the tongue.

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Why the hell is this thread still going? It shoudl've been over like 7 pages ago.
The leader of the run increased his chances at getting the Tongue, end of story. The OP didn't actually care about the shank, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed to the deal. It wasn't until his turn came up that he tried to make a big deal out of things because the Tongue hadn't dropped. Who the person was? Irrelevant. Whether or not the OP fully understood the deal? Irrelevant, he should'n't have agreed to the deal if he wasn't sure (Which is apparent when he tried to change the deal because it was his turn).

Other guy got scammed, not the OP. It's just that no one lost anything.

End.
Of.
Story.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Why the hell is this thread still going? It shoudl've been over like 7 pages ago.
The leader of the run increased his chances at getting the Tongue, end of story. The OP didn't actually care about the shank, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed to the deal. It wasn't until his turn came up that he tried to make a big deal out of things because the Tongue hadn't dropped. Who the person was? Irrelevant. Whether or not the OP fully understood the deal? Irrelevant, he should'n't have agreed to the deal if he wasn't sure (Which is apparent when he tried to change the deal because it was his turn).

Other guy got scammed, not the OP. It's just that no one lost anything.

End.
Of.
Story.

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It was a confidence man tactic. Due to all this convuluted wording, even if the Tongue didn't drop I wasn't guaranteed to win the lot at all!

That is the real end of story. Keeping your fellow man down and treating him like crap and scamming him instead.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

So what changed, you expected to be able to lot on the shank too, and then you were told you weren't able to?

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I expected to be able to keep my shank *if no Behemoth Tongue dropped*.

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Originally Posted by Linh

It was a confidence man tactic. Due to all this convuluted wording, even if the Tongue didn't drop I wasn't guaranteed to win the lot at all!

That is the real end of story. Keeping your fellow man down and treating him like crap and scamming him instead.

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Translation: "Words are hard, I don't understand the concept of increased chance, if anyone else can lot, that means I'm 100% not going to get the item because the game is specifically coded to not allow me to win lots. *Jibberish* Confidence Man tactics *More jibberish* FIGHT THE POWA! *extra jibberish*

^ Inflammatory? Maybe but, this is getting old. You think saying "confidence man tactics!" enough will make it true?

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Originally Posted by Linh

I expected to be able to keep my shank *if no Behemoth Tongue dropped*.

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And that's why you went last? If that's the case then I think you were perfectly entitled to warp out then if the rules of the deal weren't set out properly. You were basically about the throw away 99KS. Shame that it took you so long to realise that though, and you probably didn't need to make a thread about it.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Translation: "Words are hard, I don't understand the concept of increased chance, if anyone else can lot, that means I'm 100% not going to get the item because the game is specifically coded to not allow me to win lots. *Jibberish* Confidence Man tactics *More jibberish* FIGHT THE POWA! *extra jibberish*

^ Inflammatory? Maybe but, this is getting old. You think saying "confidence man tactics!" enough will make it true?

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Because that's exactly what it is. People trying to put their fellow man like me down.

And if you truly wanted this thread to be over, you wouldn't still be here arguing about it, since apparently it was already "End. Of. Story." for you.

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Originally Posted by Linh

I expected to be able to keep my shank *if no Behemoth Tongue dropped*.

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And where'd you get that notion? That one has absolutely no basis aside from you thinking that your side of the deal didn't matter whatsoever. Just shows that you knew full-well what the deal was. You had absolutely no intention of giving up your shank and lucky for them, the tongue didn't drop so you could lot on it and warp if you won it. You might've made a big deal if some one else had lotted it too but, I doubt you would've stuck around after the fact either way.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

I doubt you would've stuck around after the fact either way.

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This wasn't what happened, so it has no basis in this conversation.

I don't why you assume he wouldn't give up the shank if he got what he wanted, the tongue. He doesn't want to fight king Behemoth unless he has to. Getting the tongue in exchange for a shank is a much better deal for him. If he doesn't get a tongue or a shank why give up 99 ks for someone guy he doesn't know and who has a rep for being a lootninja.

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Originally Posted by Arlynne

I don't why you assume he wouldn't give up the shank if he got what he wanted, the tongue. He doesn't want to fight king Behemoth unless he has to. Getting the tongue in exchange for a shank is a much better deal for him. If he doesn't get a tongue or a shank why give up 99 ks for someone guy he doesn't know and who has a rep for being a lootninja.

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Did you forget he's trying to say that no one has common courtesy? The very thing the thread is about, is what he lacks. And, again, he didn't know the person was a douche (and if he did, he shouldn't have gone in the first place, seeing how the deal proposal wasn't until after they left). That person being who that person was, is completely irrelevant. Wasn't the other person's fault the tongue didn't drop. There's no justification to not upholding his side of the deal, aside from a lack of "common courtesy" on his part. He backed out of a deal that gave him a chance, not a guarantee (either way, whether it was if it dropped that he would 100% get it or that if it dropped that he would get a chance to lot it even if it wasn't his orb). If he wanted to know what would happen if it didn't drop, then he would've asked that right as the deal was being made not after the fact.

This is quite literally, the last time I'm going to say this. The are no even plausibly legitimate counter-arguments to be made. "These are confidence man tactics!" being said over and over doesn't make it so. The person who lacked any form of courtesy in this situation was the OP. More than common courtesy was given with the deal proposal in the first damn place. I'm labeling this as a troll thread and going about my business since the OP couldn't even give specific details about the situation in his first post, why does he think that everyone else should be overbearingly explicit in making a relatively clear deal is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Did you forget he's trying to say that no one has common courtesy? The very thing the thread is about, is what he lacks. And, again, he didn't know the person was a douche (and if he did, he shouldn't have gone in the first place,seeing how the deal proposal wasn't until after they left). That person being who that person was, is completely irrelevant. Wasn't the other person's fault the tongue didn't drop. There's no justification to not upholding his side of the deal, aside from a lack of "common courtesy" on his part.

This is quite literally, the last time I'm going to say this. The are no even plausibly legitimate counter-arguments to be made. "These are confidence man tactics!" being said over and over doesn't make it so. The person who lacked any form of courtesy in this situation was the OP. More than common courtesy was given with the deal proposal in the first damn place. I'm labeling this as a troll thread and going about my business since the OP couldn't even give specific details about the situation in his first post, why does he think that everyone else should be overbearingly explicit in making a relatively clear deal is beyond me.

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And yea, not even being able to WIN the lot and simply "only lot" due to all this convoluted wording is definitely not fair. Which is exactly what you all have been saying and the exact same as him which is what I'm trying to get at. You're the type of people who are trying to keep me down and scam me when I've done nothing wrong to you as a fellow man.

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Originally Posted by Linh

And yea, not even being able to WIN the lot and simply "only lot" due to all this convoluted wording is definitely not fair. Which is exactly what you all have been saying and the exact same as him which is what I'm trying to get at. You're the type of people who are trying to keep me down and scam me when I've done nothing wrong to you as a fellow man.

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You know, aside from all the stuff you did wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

You know, aside from all the stuff you did wrong.

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Didn't do anything wrong, I was the one who was wrong by fellow man. And if I were to use your logic, shouldn't I have taken your 2 earlier posts at face value and that you are truly "End. Of. Story" and not posting in a thread that should've ended 7 years ago even though it was only started yesterday?

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7 years ago even though it was only started yesterday?

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He said 7 pages ago, don't take it out of context against your fellow man.

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All I can see is Linh is a person who though may not realise it is rather selfish.

Would you have gotten scammed? No. Why? Because the rules prevented any scamming to take place.

This is what you have said the rules are.

a) You have a CHANCE to lot on the Behemoth Tongue if it drops, period.
b) They also can and will try to lot on the Behemoth Tongue.
c) They can lot on your Shank.
d) (This part is unclear, you never tell us if YOU can lot on your Shank or not.)

Now if you both can lot on the tongue and the shank. It's an equal trade deal. You both have been given boosted rates and better chances as such.

If you can not loot on your shank then from what you've told us, you didn't clarify the deal good enough. I could see if this was the case that it would seem like a scam, but since you didn't get it all fleshed out ahead of time it really isn't.

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You warping out when you saw that the deal wasn't what you thought you got into was right, to some degree. It also was wrong. Though you made a mistake you did BREAK you're part of the deal. Even though you weren't aware fully to the terms.

There was no Confidence Man act pulled on you. Simply you CHOSE not to read or ask about the small print. It's everywhere and if you ignore it, it will ALWAYS bite you in the rear.

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Originally Posted by Ordain

This is what you have said the rules are.

a) You have a CHANCE to lot on the Behemoth Tongue if it drops, period.
b) They also can and will try to lot on the Behemoth Tongue.
c) They can lot on your Shank.
d) (This part is unclear, you never tell us if YOU can lot on your Shank or not.)

Now if you both can lot on the tongue and the shank. It's an equal trade deal. You both have been given boosted rates and better chances as such.

If you can not loot on your shank then from what you've told us, you didn't clarify the deal good enough. I could see if this was the case that it would seem like a scam, but since you didn't get it all fleshed out ahead of time it really isn't.

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You warping out when you saw that the deal wasn't what you thought you got into was right, to some degree. It also was wrong. Though you made a mistake you did BREAK you're part of the deal. Even though you weren't aware fully to the terms.

There was no Confidence Man act pulled on you. Simply you CHOSE not to read or ask about the small print. It's everywhere and if you ignore it, it will ALWAYS bite you in the rear.

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I did not even ask if I could lot on my own shank. I asked if I could KEEP my own shank.

And small print? I stated before I don't live in some perpetual state of a flick or something to always expecting my fellow man to do me wrong and screw me over. Common Courtesy dictates this as what I strongly had faith in:

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Originally Posted by Firebert_Lakshmi

Here's how I'm interpreting this. In the original post, the tell said the TC would have a chance to lot on the tongue in exchange for the the shank. No tongue, no chance to lot. Therefore I side with TC.

I've seen similar deals set up with Royale Ramble back in the day. Members would trade their ingot to lot a weapon that they wanted.

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, not that words would be convoluted into:

"You only can lot, I didn't say you would win it."

As this would deteoriate into (due to all this Face Value convoluted mess):

"You can lot, but that doesn't mean I can't kick you from the party after you do."

All of that is truly trying to keep your fellow man down.

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Originally Posted by Ordain

He said 7 pages ago, don't take it out of context against your fellow man.

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Alright, my bad.

And this thread is still going, because it's a call to the community about common courtesy, or lack thereof. And while some people may be selfish and try to scam people over a large portion of the community is actually very nice and fair, from my own experience.

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Originally Posted by Linh

I expected to be able to keep my shank *if no Behemoth Tongue dropped*.

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That's you expecting something that was clearly stated not to be the case.

This "fellow man" talk is getting kinda stale, you haven't been wronged, even if that was indeed the intention of Pewpeww. I don't know him, so won't say it is either way, the fact is you made a deal and expected an inappropriate exception. And then you accuse others of keeping you down.

I wanna make clear on two things, because you haven't explained that properly anywhere:
1. How many people were in the party?
2. Did he actually say they were going to lot against you on the tongue? Because from the way you said it yourself, I think you misinterpreted his "chance". I don't think he meant a "chance" among others, but a chance as in, if it drops or not. At least that's how I understood it.

As was stated before, I think you're selfish without realizing it. You expected there to be a safety net, insurance, that, even if the run went wrong, you'd get something out of it at least. Reverse that situation, would you be ok if no shanks dropped, and they said "because no shanks dropped, we'll lot your tongue as well, just to get something out of all this"?

I can only relate this to myself, I would offer the same deal he did, and I don't do it to scam anyone or put anyone down. It's a simple deal, can't you see that everyone here interprets it the same way except for you? As I said, I think it's simple misinterpretation (or wrong expectation) on your part, no one pulled anything on you.

ITT: common courtesy is giving away 99KS

1. 3

2. No

And there has been people who has agreed with me.

This was what was said BEFORE the run while at Ronfaure:

"I'll give you the chance to lot on the Tongue if it drops, in return I get your shank."

Does most DEFINITELY NOT equal this "clarification":

"The deal was not for the BB item itself, but the chance for you to lot it if it drops on our orb. Even if it doesn't drop on your orb (meaning, "at all") we still get your shank."

it seems that Linh never got the chance to lot at a BB item, so the other person was unable to uphold his end of the bargain, so common rule says that the bargain is null and void...sounds to me like the other person was trying to manipulate the situation to get more than his share...I doubt he planned to invite or look for Linh the next time they went to fight this particular BCNM, or whenever they went to use these Shanks.

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Originally Posted by Bubeeky

it seems that Linh never got the chance to lot at a BB item, so the other person was unable to uphold his end of the bargain, so common rule says that the bargain is null and void...sounds to me like the other person was trying to manipulate the situation to get more than his share...I doubt he planned to invite or look for Linh the next time they went to fight this particular BCNM, or whenever they went to use these Shanks.

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This doesn't void any agreement. From Linh's own posts, to any player with a brain it's obvious that the other players were not lotting on the Behemoth Tongue. What he said was this:

"We are not trading you a tongue for a shank. We said you can get the Tongue if it drops on our orbs, but in exchange for that opportunity we get your shank period even if no Tongues drop."

This only means that the the deal was to remain intact even if 0 Behemoth Tongues dropped. That does not mean that he was expected to lot against everyone else when/if the Tongue dropped. Linh is either being intentionally dense for the sake of attempting to back up his own case, or is really just that bad. Either way, it's a red flag for anyone on Valefor. It's easy enough to add another name to the blist.

Call me gullible or whatever, but if the initial deal was worded the way Linh says, I too would interpret that as "you can lot BB item if it drops on another orb, in exchange for the shank off your orb". Meaning the shank would be considered as payment for the BB item, and therefore Linh also had to go last. And I can't help but think that's exactly what happened here really. Luckily, gullible or not, I wouldn't find myself in a situation like this as I never ever do KS99s with people I don't know.

No doubt though, if you go on a KS run like this with people you don't know, make 100% certain the lotting rules are absolutely impossible to misunderstand/misinterpret.

Eh, maybe if the OP provided screenshots we might be able to gauge how iffy the wording was. Personally, I'm in no rush to take his quotations at face value considering how many times he's jumped around, corrected his story, backpedaled, and otherwise tried to change the situation every time someone calls him out.

Definitely agree about making sure everyone's clear on the rules though. That is the #1 thing to do before even starting.

By my understanding, what would happen if the tongue never dropped was not specified, and what had been said left what would happen if the tongue never dropped up to interpretation -- which of course means that both parties read the interpretation as that which is most favorable for them.

This was an agreement for an exception to the otherwise agreed upon drop rights, so a gap in the agreement should be resolved by defaulting to the otherwise-agreed-upon-drop-rights.

In this case, the default distribution of items was "Your Orb, Your Drop" and therefore Linh is in the right in expecting to keep drops.

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Originally Posted by Linh

Beastly Shank was part of the original deal yes. I was to be allowed to lot the BB item if it dropped on any orb (instead of only lotting it on my orb, since it is a YOYD) in return for giving up the Beastly Shank from my orb.

Following Pewpeww's logic, I was not even guaranteed the Tongue EVEN IF IT DROPS. Cuz by that logic, I'm only allowed to lot it right? Not win it.

EDIT: To answer your second question, no. It wasn't until we were at Ronfaure and after I supposedly convinced Pewpeww that Behemoth Tongue still dropped from KS99 (cuz he said it didn't anymore) that he sent me this /tell with the agreement.

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Then you're technically in the wrong I'm afraid.

Although, I think your best bet would be to gather some friends up and do the KS99 yourself without deals.