Dark Knight and the Dev Team

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Originally Posted by SNK

imo a Guillotine should have had crit mods a long time ago..

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this X1000000000

been saying this on drk forums for awhile and it turns into a monkey shit fight at the zoo.

edit: i''m also game for insurgency being crit based, jesus just something!

axe/ridill should not be my top weapon choice for dmg in abyssea

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Since when are we suddenly talking about DRK/THF.

You seem to be trying to put a lot of words into my mouth. Please don't.

I mean, you might have a point if I said "ALL DRK'S SHOULD SUB THF 100% OF THE TIME. LET IT BE WRITTEN". But I clearly didn't.

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Get torcleaver, sub thf. Problem solved.

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=> implying Torcleaver and DRK/THF fixes DRK
it doesn't

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Originally Posted by Rayik

You don't have DRK levelled, do you... Know how I know?

DRK Elemental Magic rating is B+, it's higher than a freakin' RDM, and equal to a SCH using Dark Arts. The skill is fine, we just have no native MAB do do anything with it. So our Fire III lands just fine, it's just does less damage than a dagger swing, and takes 10x as long.

If SE wants us to cast more spells, give us a damned reason to cast them! Occult Accumen was a start, but why on earth am I going to spend the time to cast a spell, possibly get interrupted, do crappy damage, and get back 2 or 3 tp, when I could've swung my scythe/GS, done MORE damage, NOT get interrupted, and gotten back around 19-ish tp?

It's simple. Have Occult Accumen give us tp comparable to a weapon swing. Make the casting time comparable to weapon delay, and give us the tp associated with it. I'll happily cast spells all day if I can get that tp that my weapon would get.

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I do have Dark leveled. It's actually one of my favorite jobs to be honest.

What i meant by "Too low" wasn't our skill level, but the tier of spell. And you pretty much outlined the reasons why I said it. My argument was horribly worded.

There's a problem if your tier 3 spells are doing less damage than the 2 melee swings you'd probably make in that time. You should be able to do more than that.

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=> implying Torcleaver and DRK/THF fixes DRK
it doesn't

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Once again, taking what I said out of context to your own end. I was directly replying to someone who was asking for a JA to give DRK crit on the first hit of a WS.

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Originally Posted by Cruentus

Um, because balance has to be maintained throughout the game? Come on, use your head, please. How would you like it if people demanded "Warrior or get the hell out" of you, and your melee jobs amounted to Dark Knight and maybe White Mage? And this is concerning most of the good stuff that's out right now.

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Clearly someone didn't even read my post, which is fine. I don't take offense to illiteracy.

What I implied was that I don't consider Abyssea to be an actual part of the game. More like a bonus level where you can go batshit crazy on everything and get the best gear to-date in about a week's worth of effort, or less. Abyssea is not going to last forever, so when it dies down, I believe everything will be back to the way things were before. Basically pre-Abyssea, if you were actually good at a job, people would invite you to use it regularly. If we're lucky, we can go back to that. Now, if you aren't a specific job that meets the standard of Abyssea, people treat you like shit and make you the bench warmer. That's basically what everyone is saying about DRK right now. DRK is the one sitting on the side. For now. Everyone should just calm down and think about what the future actually holds, not try to adjust the current situation.

Think about it, do you believe this is the first time DRK has been on the bottom of the barrel? 2004 it was lolDRG and lolDRK and RNG was the leet DD. RNG+NIN+THF+BLM+RDM+WHM = win PT all! omg guys Sidewinder + SATA Dancing Edge + Blizzaga 2 we can get chain 5!! Of course back then some people thought BRD was pretty useless too, and look what's happened to that! BRD is losing the interest of most people again as well.

Did you all forget that just before Abyssea, DRK was one of the most popular jobs to be used as a DD and often times a tank for many situations, especially low-manning HNMs and other similar events.

This is just another phase in the world of FFXI. It'll all be over soon.

Get torcleaver is a terrible way to fix DRK....GS is one of the more terrible DD emps, scythe being the worst.

To Therin: DRK is not good outside of Abyssea, with the addition of some nice AF3+2 and every job capping haste its getting left standing still in every zone in the game.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

I don't think DRKs are helping their cause when they start saying stupid things like a dagger swing does more damage than a T3 nuke. Lies and gross exaggerations like that pretty much make the rest sound like whining.

Martially, I'll just reiterate that Insurgency should be a crit WS. During the TP phase, at best I'd offer DRK a trait that grants a high chance of attacking again after landing a critical hit. If we're gonna dabble into the whole Combat Casting idea, that's something RDM and PLD should be getting their hands on, too, with RDM being the best at it if it winds up being tiered.

Magically, I could maybe see up to the MAB2 trait. DRK should have Auto Refresh just like PLD, as Aspir isn't always an option. A trait to greatly enhance nukes on MBs has also been considered in the past, as well as a JA that could make a T3 function like a T4 with the T3's MP cost and (re)cast time. I'd also be okay with simply getting a DRK-specific nuke that does similar, maybe a bit better on MP costs and cast time. The decay rate on Absorbs should be abolished and their overall potency needs to scale better. Absorb-TP should be more like 3/4 the mob's TP unresisted instead of 1/2. I'd be okay with Dread Spikes absorbing maybe 1/2 to 3/4 a blow if it lasted for 5 minutes. And this is just me babbling off the top of my head.

Overall, we all know Abyssea's skewed job perception. I don't forget DRK being the go-to zerg job for damn near everything pre-Einherjar (and even then it was moderately useful at times). I saw DRK tanks on HNMs, tanked some low-man activities myself, and was rarely excluded from the pink pecker phase of birds EXP. DRK isn't a bad job. It's just not popular for Abyssea due to the lack of crit WS on their main weapon(s) and limited proc selection. Meanwhile, for those itching for more and more and more melee prowess, all I can suggest is a job change. Like it or not, the magic is not going away, as that is part of what makes DRK a DRK and it SHOULD be used more often.

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I'm not saying magic should go away. I'm fine with being a hybrid caster, all I'm saying is give us a reason to cast one of our terrible spells in the first place. Maybe T3 damage versus a dagger was an exaggeration, but really, not by much.

I think they were on the right track with Occult Occumen. As it is it's not worth it, but it has potential. Bottom line is, most of our nuke spells take longer to cast than a normal attack, give a laughably pitiful return on tp(I realize no other job gets even that, but their spells actually do something), use mp, and can be interrupted. Why bother with all that garbage when I can just swing my weapon?

DRK Elemental Magic; IMO, fix it or remove it.

I love DRK. Even with all the Abyssea hullabaloo, and my other jobs that are more in demand that I'm always asked to come as(WAR, etc), I still consider DRK my main. Has been for 4 years. I want to see this job get the respect it deserves. Right now, we're the laughing stock of FF, with all the "emo" references and Q_Q faces. I'm all for other jobs getting their time in the spotlight, but that doesn't mean our job has to get trashed with garbage updates and nerfs to already weak spells(Absorb-TP).

There has to be a way all those other jobs can get their moment without us getting sand kicked in our faces.

Since the 75-->90 additions SE has add nothing useful except endark but that fall null and void because it can't stack with some other additional effects like haste samba or the death proc on twilight.

Really my problem with what the Dev team is that in one hands they say "We're gonna encourage DRKs to use magic" then add something really useless like occult acumen then next update tactical parry my response to that kind of stuff is DON'T BOTHER i'd rather you add 1 good thing or nothing to DRK than 4-5 useless things.

Honestly if the dev team wants DRK to be a more solid magic user then they need spells that do a decent amount of DMG or spells that augment our WS/melee DMG enough for them to be worth casting.

And if thats too much effort then just fix our WS dmg and tweak souleater/last resort and give us some new Job ability or Job trait for our melee.

Really at the end of the day Absorb-TP/Drain I/II and stun is a good set of spells for a melee maybe put in a drain III and Terror and call it done for DRKs magic then lets us compete with other melees dmg wise.

You know what I find funny? The fact that the mods are blatantly ignoring the DRK forums. By ignoring I mean just not posting anything or shedding any light on these matters, I'm sure they're all reading these (they probably have to). But at least they step in on other threads to let people down, as SE has been doing for several years, even before FFXI. I guess we just can't get our hopes up about anything creative and interesting. Of course knowing DRK's misled reputation, they'd probably be afraid of everyone killing themselves from the disappointment.

...wow you guys seriously made me not want to come back to the game now. lmfao wow....that's just heart breaking hahaha. well hopefully we can get some information shined on this situation. please mod's tell us if anything is being planned for drk?

okay somebody just gave me the low down on what's going on with DRK. please for the love of god give the job a buff lol. we're not asking for much, just asking for a level playing ground.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

You know what I find funny? The fact that the mods are blatantly ignoring the DRK forums. By ignoring I mean just not posting anything or shedding any light on these matters, I'm sure they're all reading these (they probably have to). But at least they step in on other threads to let people down, as SE has been doing for several years, even before FFXI. I guess we just can't get our hopes up about anything creative and interesting. Of course knowing DRK's misled reputation, they'd probably be afraid of everyone killing themselves from the disappointment.

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Why should the dark forum get special treatment? Have you seen any developer interaction in the other job forums?

Only Drg and Cor have; Cor because one of its abilities is being worked on atm, and Drg because a thread was moved from general, that had an easy to answer question.

The devs are busy with more pressing issues at the moment I'm sure.



Cater to Darks who only recently became deficient? Or work on releasing new content and fixing jobs that need balancing more urgently?

And Darks only became deficient by proxy, because other jobs that were neglected for years finally got a boost.

Get some perspective...

Recently became deficient eh? I seem to remember back in 2005 getting kicked out of pt's because they found a rng. Or looking for a party for days before finally getting proficient at making my own parties before I got a static. Oh, and not being able to get into zilart or promathia missions. Right I guess this has only happened recently.

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Originally Posted by Frost

Why should the dark forum get special treatment? Have you seen any developer interaction in the other job forums?

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Because DRK is obviously played by special people, such as yourself. ;)

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

Recently became deficient eh? I seem to remember back in 2005 getting kicked out of pt's because they found a rng. Or looking for a party for days before finally getting proficient at making my own parties before I got a static. Oh, and not being able to get into zilart or promathia missions. Right I guess this has only happened recently.

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Yes recently.

Really? Going to bring up Rangers? Really? You do recall they got nerfed to near extinction right? That's the worst example you could possibly come up with. You, as well as everyone got replaced by rangers because they were so ridiculously over powered at the time, and got "adjusted". Then everyone played Rdm, Blm, Nin, and Brd for about 3 years... Then they added the Two handed buff and pretty much every one-handed job fell to the wayside as Drks, Drgs, Sams and Wars got invites, casting off the one handers into exile for a few years(with a few exceptions).

Now, the pendulum has swung in the other direction, and the one hander jobs are enjoying a bit more of the limelight, but sharing said limelight instead of dominating it with those two-handers of yesteryear.

You guys make it seem like Darks are completely useless; like Darks are just under a melee Smn/Blm on the pecking order or something. I have no problem getting invites on my Drk or holding my own in a party nowadays. Most of the reason why I hold my own is that I adapt and enjoy the whole berth of the Dark job. And I'm not the only one having no issues. If you think it's so hard to play right now and that you're useless, while other Darks still holding top slots in a parse, getting invites on "your job", and don't see it as underpowered... You might want to think about maybe why YOU are having issues.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Clearly someone didn't even read my post, which is fine. I don't take offense to illiteracy.

What I implied was that I don't consider Abyssea to be an actual part of the game. More like a bonus level where you can go batshit crazy on everything and get the best gear to-date in about a week's worth of effort, or less. Abyssea is not going to last forever, so when it dies down, I believe everything will be back to the way things were before. Basically pre-Abyssea, if you were actually good at a job, people would invite you to use it regularly. If we're lucky, we can go back to that. Now, if you aren't a specific job that meets the standard of Abyssea, people treat you like shit and make you the bench warmer. That's basically what everyone is saying about DRK right now. DRK is the one sitting on the side. For now. Everyone should just calm down and think about what the future actually holds, not try to adjust the current situation.

Think about it, do you believe this is the first time DRK has been on the bottom of the barrel? 2004 it was lolDRG and lolDRK and RNG was the leet DD. RNG+NIN+THF+BLM+RDM+WHM = win PT all! omg guys Sidewinder + SATA Dancing Edge + Blizzaga 2 we can get chain 5!! Of course back then some people thought BRD was pretty useless too, and look what's happened to that! BRD is losing the interest of most people again as well.

Did you all forget that just before Abyssea, DRK was one of the most popular jobs to be used as a DD and often times a tank for many situations, especially low-manning HNMs and other similar events.

This is just another phase in the world of FFXI. It'll all be over soon.

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Except that add-ons never get fully removed from the game. Abyssea will always be there, just like Dynamis, Einherjar, and Eco-Warrior. And I did use the phrase "right now." Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

First, don't imply things. Say what you mean instead of being sarcastic, and the only people who will misunderstand you will be the idiots who can't read. I.e., not me. Second, no, I don't believe this is the first time. I believe it's the first time in my time in Vana'diel, which is true, since I've had this game for a year. I'm working with what I know. Screw 2004. Finally, no matter what, balance is required in a game like this. If a job (like how DRK is right now) is useless compared to everything else, it needs to be fixed. There is no possible argument against this fact, and I will thank you to either help the situation by suggesting things that will actually help, rather than keep your attitude and help drag this thread down.

Now, to everyone... Try doing something constructive already. Instead of arguing with each other, try suggestions to fix the job. I'm getting really, really sick of this stupid one-upsmanship attitude everyone has.

while we are talking about drk.. i always thought drk should have some sort of spell similar to holy .. but drk based...

would be really fast to cast and could do a quick augment to your damage like holy.. maybe instead of calling it un-holy they could call it ummm.. Desecrate?

Then we could pretend like we are evil pld's >_>

I suggest they do something about scythe which SE said they would do 4 years ago...

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Originally Posted by Frost

Yes recently.

Really? Going to bring up Rangers? Really? You do recall they got nerfed to near extinction right? That's the worst example you could possibly come up with. You, as well as everyone got replaced by rangers because they were so ridiculously over powered at the time, and got "adjusted". Then everyone played Rdm, Blm, Nin, and Brd for about 3 years... Then they added the Two handed buff and pretty much every one-handed job fell to the wayside as Drks, Drgs, Sams and Wars got invites, casting off the one handers into exile for a few years(with a few exceptions).

Now, the pendulum has swung in the other direction, and the one hander jobs are enjoying a bit more of the limelight, but sharing said limelight instead of dominating it with those two-handers of yesteryear.

You guys make it seem like Darks are completely useless; like Darks are just under a melee Smn/Blm on the pecking order or something. I have no problem getting invites on my Drk or holding my own in a party nowadays. Most of the reason why I hold my own is that I adapt and enjoy the whole berth of the Dark job. And I'm not the only one having no issues. If you think it's so hard to play right now and that you're useless, while other Darks still holding top slots in a parse, getting invites on "your job", and don't see it as underpowered... You might want to think about maybe why YOU are having issues.

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Try getting a party invite on something other than trash XP mobs. Only reason DRK gets invites to Abyssea parties is to fill up space in an alliance. Nobody goes out of there way to get a DRK, it's never "Ooh! a DRK, grab him!" Have fun fighting NM's or actually accomplishing something besides XP.

Addendum: I've been a DRK main for 4 years, leveled RDM a year and a half ago just so I had something useful at events(and I enjoyed the job). Even when I low-man with RL friends and family, they NEVER ask me to come DRK. They'd rather have me on my gimpy full-perle, Abyssea-burned WAR with red procs(skills barely high enough for that) than my full geared out and merited DRK.

@Flunklesnarkin: FFXII had "Scourge" which was pretty spiffy, they could add it to this game, Drk only, Good idea on the concept though. Hell they coudl have given us the old school "Demi" I, II, III, & IV(?) spells as "Dark Spells" instead of weak elemental spells they did give us.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Try getting a party invite on something other than trash XP mobs. Only reason DRK gets invites to Abyssea parties is to fill up space in an alliance. Nobody goes out of there way to get a DRK, it's never "Ooh! a DRK, grab him!" Have fun fighting NM's or actually accomplishing something besides XP.

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First fallacy: You assume it's not like that for any if not all jobs.

Second fallacy: You forget, it's might not be the job, it might be you.
(Not you specifically, just the proverbial 'you'.)

And final thought on this line of ill-conceived bovine excrement. Get better friends. If I want to come dark, I do. And I am welcomed to do so. Because I know my role, and how to play the job to benefit the group, and my friends know I know what I am capable of, and don't second guess my ability.

So in retort I have no issue playing Dark as it is, nor getting invites, nor participating in larger scale events on Dark. I know I am able to show people it's not a "Weak Job", and that's easy because it's not a weak job.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Addendum: I've been a DRK main for 4 years, leveled RDM a year and a half ago just so I had something useful at events(and I enjoyed the job). Even when I low-man with RL friends and family, they NEVER ask me to come DRK. They'd rather have me on my gimpy full-perle, Abyssea-burned WAR with red procs(skills barely high enough for that) than my full geared out and merited DRK.

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Then your friends suck, and judging by their actions as stated here, they don't respect you. Considering you have a self-admitted:

"gimpy full-perle, Abyssea-burned WAR with red procs (skills barely high enough for that)",

I'd assume you don't respect you. Why level a job you have no interest in? Why not gear it up if it's needed? Why can't you make a case to go Dark, when, if War's being used solely for proc'ing, it's barely different?

The answer isn't "Dark is weak"...

And I think the statement that you have skills barely high enough to proc reds on war speaks volumes; because that statement holds a 100% truth to your dark too... They're the same skills used on both. If you give a shit, they'll give a shit.

Melee BRD might be able to outDD DRK. I haven't done the math on it, but looking at it, it seems likely... inside Abyssea of course.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Melee BRD might be able to outDD DRK. I haven't done the math on it, but looking at it, it seems likely... inside Abyssea of course.

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BlueGartr tested that a long time ago I thought. But yeah, if a BARD can out-damage a Dark Knight, something is seriously wrong.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Melee BRD might be able to outDD DRK. I haven't done the math on it, but looking at it, it seems likely... inside Abyssea of course.

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I assume you're just trolling, but I'll bite...
If a melee bard and Drk were in the same party, and both receiving buffs, there's no way a melee Brd could out-damage a Drk. If only for the fact a Drk gets access to every offensive ability that bard has, save for requiem, while having access to generally better gear.

Calling Raen a troll your just making yourself look like a retard. x:

Other than Kirschy he has to be one of the most knowledgeable DRKs out there.

Even Kirschy says DRK is worthless and when she is saying that much, you know something is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Gradd

Calling Raen a troll your just making yourself look like a retard. x:

Other than Kirschy he has to be one of the most knowledgeable DRKs out there.

Even Kirschy says DRK is worthless and when she is saying that much, you know something is wrong.

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I said that post was a toll post just due to the absurdity of the premise, not that Raen is a troll.

I like Raen's posts, and usually agree with what they have to say, and even in the case that I don't agree with what they say, I respect their opinion, because unlike a seemingly large vocal group of people coagulating here on the forum that seem to be autistic or something, Raen seems to be able to formulate thoughts properly, and convey them in a meaningful, generally constructive, way.

Idk what I am doing different, that makes my Dark preform acceptably. I've given clues, and I HAVE seen other darks struggle, but it's generally due to them not adopting new ideas and game-play elements. I've been trying to be nice about it, but maybe that's not getting the point across.

I like how the entire purpose of this thread was to get it attention in the main general forums because SE ignores us.

And now its back here.

I'm seriously considering spamming it into the main thread, until I get an answer besides it being moved.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

A DRK/THF using Gswrd has nothing really going for it BUT the WS...

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Don't forget the death, -40% PDT and a Caladbolg isn't going to stop that quick sweet death due to my shit sub!

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Originally Posted by Frost

I assume you're just trolling, but I'll bite...
If a melee bard and Drk were in the same party, and both receiving buffs, there's no way a melee Brd could out-damage a Drk. If only for the fact a Drk gets access to every offensive ability that bard has, save for requiem, while having access to generally better gear.

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I am trolling in a way, in that I'm posting that to gain a reaction. The reaction I want is the initial disbelief and then when you realise that what I just said isn't that far from the truth, the next reaction I want is the "... wtf? Fix DRK".

We can either assume nonempyrean for both, or give them both empyreans (remembering BRD has full access to ToM daggers). Both cap haste, DRK can 5hit if Scythe, 6hit if Gswrd. Guillotine is 3.875 fTP and Evisceration is 6 fTP with critical potential. Assuming a base damage of ~200 for Scythe and ~120 for Dagger, 775 vs 720 relative units of damage, before criticals - so obviously when criticals are taken into account, Evisceration will absolutely rape Guillotine (not to mention I've assumed same WSC for both, when Razed Ruins atma (which both should use) will greatly favour Evisceration etc).

So DRK has capped Haste, BRD has capped Haste and some DW reduction on what are already extremely high DoT daggers. If we assume Kila +2 x2, 43dmg/190delay => 86dmg/304delay(after DW), giving a "DPS" of ~17 (ignoring the STR/atk/DEX/acc on the daggers). DRK using Woeborn (131dmg/528delay) has a "DPS" of 14.9. This is unfair, you cry! I should give DRK its top magian too. This is true, but you'll soon come to the depressing conclusion that you need a perfect magian with perfect gear to keep up with a rather mundane melee bard (albeit one with empyrean daggers).

I haven't factored Last Resort or Hasso, both of which should push DRK over BRD. In fact, most of this math is highly approximate and should not be taken beyond face value, and I haven't extended it to play with Torcleaver. What I just want to show is that DRK is not much better than a melee BRD inside Abyssea - if you performed these calculations with almost any other melee, BRD would be absolutely destroyed even at the initial premise.

OK now do all that and use Swords and Axes instead of G.Sword &/or Scythe.

I understand that Drks use Scythe/G.sword, but you don't have to.

Why was it so easy for everyone to use polearm on War and Sam on birds back in the day, and yet it's like pulling teeth to get a Dark to adapt nowadays?

Take Abyssea out of the equation, and you get your scythe/g.sword. Put it back in and you can do fine using crit WS that are available ot you.

I really don't think BRD can keep up with DRK.

It's a bit like Melee WHM which i mess about with sure it has a Crit WS and sure it can cap haste and all that but it just ends up trying to cap out attack and wasting alot of the time buffing it self.

As for the /THF thing honestly u can say it only has the WS but ur DoT isn't that much different + ur WS rate is like minus one hit which agian ism't that bad for a 7 hit weapon(not sure if ya even lose a hit). Really DRK/THF i'm sure beats /SAM if you in the sitiutation were you can land sneak attack WS 80-90% of the time. Ps u can WS in between the Sneak attack recast :O

As for survivablity most of the nasty stuff is AoE third eye isn't gonna help here and if you have hate long enough to die from the melee then all the DDs with u are slacking and u'd prolly be top DD /NIN anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

DRK Elemental Magic; IMO, fix it or remove it.

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Inspired by Suikoden II, I've always wanted an ability that let DRK cast an elemental spell on themselves then transferring the damage to the enemy on the next auto attack or something.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

As for the /THF thing honestly u can say it only has the WS but ur DoT isn't that much different + ur WS rate is like minus one hit which agian ism't that bad for a 7 hit weapon(not sure if ya even lose a hit). Really DRK/THF i'm sure beats /SAM if you in the sitiutation were you can land sneak attack WS 80-90% of the time. Ps u can WS in between the Sneak attack recast :O

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if you lose 1 "tier" of x-hit, that's WS frequency -20% (6hit => 7hit) or -25% (5hit => 6hit).

Hasso is some minor STR boost (damage+<1%), acc+10 (if used, 5%+ damage increase, if not then meh) and Haste+10% (15%+~ damage increase). Meditate is some minor damage increase on the order of ~3% depending on how much you hold TP. Zanshin is minor but there. AND it gives you defenses.

/sam absolutely rapes /thf.

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OK now do all that and use Swords and Axes instead of G.Sword &/or Scythe.

I understand that Drks use Scythe/G.sword, but you don't have to.

Why was it so easy for everyone to use polearm on War and Sam on birds back in the day, and yet it's like pulling teeth to get a Dark to adapt nowadays?

Take Abyssea out of the equation, and you get your scythe/g.sword. Put it back in and you can do fine using crit WS that are available ot you.

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Because our weapon lineups for both of these suck. Can't magian either of them.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

Try getting a party invite on something other than trash XP mobs. Only reason DRK gets invites to Abyssea parties is to fill up space in an alliance. Nobody goes out of there way to get a DRK, it's never "Ooh! a DRK, grab him!" Have fun fighting NM's or actually accomplishing something besides XP.

Addendum: I've been a DRK main for 4 years, leveled RDM a year and a half ago just so I had something useful at events(and I enjoyed the job). Even when I low-man with RL friends and family, they NEVER ask me to come DRK. They'd rather have me on my gimpy full-perle, Abyssea-burned WAR with red procs(skills barely high enough for that) than my full geared out and merited DRK.

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i brag about having a job merited too

and if that gimp war your talking about is better than your "fully geared" DRK you are doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

I really don't think BRD can keep up with DRK.

It's a bit like Melee WHM which i mess about with sure it has a Crit WS and sure it can cap haste and all that but it just ends up trying to cap out attack and wasting alot of the time buffing it self.

As for the /THF thing honestly u can say it only has the WS but ur DoT isn't that much different + ur WS rate is like minus one hit which agian ism't that bad for a 7 hit weapon(not sure if ya even lose a hit). Really DRK/THF i'm sure beats /SAM if you in the sitiutation were you can land sneak attack WS 80-90% of the time. Ps u can WS in between the Sneak attack recast :O

As for survivablity most of the nasty stuff is AoE third eye isn't gonna help here and if you have hate long enough to die from the melee then all the DDs with u are slacking and u'd prolly be top DD /NIN anyway.

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you sir GREATLY underestimate /sam...................

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Originally Posted by Frost

OK now do all that and use Swords and Axes instead of G.Sword &/or Scythe.

I understand that Drks use Scythe/G.sword, but you don't have to.

Why was it so easy for everyone to use polearm on War and Sam on birds back in the day, and yet it's like pulling teeth to get a Dark to adapt nowadays?

Take Abyssea out of the equation, and you get your scythe/g.sword. Put it back in and you can do fine using crit WS that are available ot you.

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Axe/Ridill DRK is going to be better then a Scythe or GS DRK in Abyssea, but will continue to get PWNed by NIN,MNK,WAR,DRG,SAM,PUP etc. PA SAM worked because it took most SAMs from 6hit to 5hit and gave a multihit WS with a higher fTP then GKT WSs. As I've stated 20 times on this forum DRK has much bigger problems then a lack of critical WS. When people will perfect DRK gear say its trash, it probably is.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

I really don't think BRD can keep up with DRK.

It's a bit like Melee WHM which i mess about with sure it has a Crit WS and sure it can cap haste and all that but it just ends up trying to cap out attack and wasting alot of the time buffing it self.

As for the /THF thing honestly u can say it only has the WS but ur DoT isn't that much different + ur WS rate is like minus one hit which agian ism't that bad for a 7 hit weapon(not sure if ya even lose a hit). Really DRK/THF i'm sure beats /SAM if you in the sitiutation were you can land sneak attack WS 80-90% of the time. Ps u can WS in between the Sneak attack recast :O

As for survivablity most of the nasty stuff is AoE third eye isn't gonna help here and if you have hate long enough to die from the melee then all the DDs with u are slacking and u'd prolly be top DD /NIN anyway.

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/facepalm - the lack of game mechanic knowledge in the DRK forum is exactly why the job will be left in the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Taint

/facepalm - the lack of game mechanic knowledge in the DRK forum is exactly why the job will be left in the dungeon.

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Agreed Taint.

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Originally Posted by Taint

Axe/Ridill DRK is going to be better then a Scythe or GS DRK in Abyssea, but will continue to get PWNed by NIN,MNK,WAR,DRG,SAM,PUP etc. PA SAM worked because it took most SAMs from 6hit to 5hit and gave a multihit WS with a higher fTP then GKT WSs. As I've stated 20 times on this forum DRK has much bigger problems then a lack of critical WS. When people will perfect DRK gear say its trash, it probably is.

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Agreed. A critical WS is kind of nice, but it's only for Razed Ruins. DRKs are lacking in FAR more ways than just a critical WS. We need fixed job abilities and more not-useless spells and traits.

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Originally Posted by Frost

@Flunklesnarkin: FFXII had "Scourge" which was pretty spiffy, they could add it to this game, Drk only, Good idea on the concept though. Hell they coudl have given us the old school "Demi" I, II, III, & IV(?) spells as "Dark Spells" instead of weak elemental spells they did give us.



First fallacy: You assume it's not like that for any if not all jobs.

Second fallacy: You forget, it's might not be the job, it might be you.
(Not you specifically, just the proverbial 'you'.)

And final thought on this line of ill-conceived bovine excrement. Get better friends. If I want to come dark, I do. And I am welcomed to do so. Because I know my role, and how to play the job to benefit the group, and my friends know I know what I am capable of, and don't second guess my ability.

So in retort I have no issue playing Dark as it is, nor getting invites, nor participating in larger scale events on Dark. I know I am able to show people it's not a "Weak Job", and that's easy because it's not a weak job.



Then your friends suck, and judging by their actions as stated here, they don't respect you. Considering you have a self-admitted:

"gimpy full-perle, Abyssea-burned WAR with red procs (skills barely high enough for that)",

I'd assume you don't respect you. Why level a job you have no interest in? Why not gear it up if it's needed? Why can't you make a case to go Dark, when, if War's being used solely for proc'ing, it's barely different?

The answer isn't "Dark is weak"...

And I think the statement that you have skills barely high enough to proc reds on war speaks volumes; because that statement holds a 100% truth to your dark too... They're the same skills used on both. If you give a shit, they'll give a shit.

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When you started in with the "Fallacy" talk, I was ready to just skip over your entire comment. This isn't Harvard Law, take your pretentious "high class" attitude and go get all those snazzy party invites on DRK(other than filling up space in xp alliances). It's ok, I'll wait.

"Get better friends?" you say? I play with my wife and brother. Doesn't get much closer than that. It goes both ways; my brother loves to play COR and PUP, but neither see any use in Abyssea. Events outside Abyssea? Sure, I'll come DRK and DD with the best of them. Lately we do a lot of Abyssea stuff, so DRK sits on the shelf. Anything DRK can do in Abyssea, WAR can do better. I do enjoy playing WAR, I already had it leveled pretty high, then I was offered a key person slot in a aby pt, so I went ahead and grinded it up to 90. Viola! Suddenly I'm getting invited to all manner of NM pops, Zone Boss runs, etc.

Try it for yourself. Put up your party flag on DRK, and see what kinds of invites you get. I'm willing to bet you get nothing other than {Worm}{Party}Abyssea{La Theine Plateau}{Do you need it?}

Have fun fighting trash mobs for xp all day. It's all you're gonna get to do.