Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You're splitting hairs. THF just tags. Not needed but better drops. SMN can handle it w/o a THF.

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But the THF hits it, so it's not soloing.

And, if you time it right, you actually can proc NM's in Abyssea. Now, that would be truly solo... but in many cases, it's not a picnic. Some are far easier on NIN, for example... but with far more options to proc with. Oh wait....I just let the cat out of the bag, didn't I? NIN is broken because it can solo stuff....ZOMG! NERF NIN!

/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Legion, Odin 2.0, Voidwatch, abyssea solos.

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That... thats funny, Abyssea is part of where SMN is balanced? When it gets a single atma which works amazingly for it? Odin, Legion, these events are not balanced for SMN, they are events where you used PD and ShockSquall because you could not live without PD and you wanted stuns, so you used the SMN for SS because you wanted to make at least some use out of it after PD.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

It's not unfair if it balances out the playing field.

Again, without this mechanic, SMN is virtually useless in reives for gaining XP/Bayld.

And I never said the need to GTFO or lolmelee... and by the way, a decently geared WHM is not exactly lolmelee. Granted, 1k+ hexa's pale in comparison to a 3k+ Shoha.... but considering you're using a toothpick and not a big sword, it's pretty impressive for a mage to pull off.

The point is, you can change your approach. How did Einstein put it? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You can switch up your playstyle and melee if you want. You can move to the other side. You can stop following that herd and go to another reive that's not so heavy with SMN's.

It's also not too far fetched to apply your logic to other compa\onents....PLD has an unfair advantage in lair reives and needs to be changed....BRD, SMN, RDM, and BLM shouldn't be able to keep all the mobs slept off to the side of a palm tree while everyone beats on it because people can't get any good xp off the reive.

Do you see the slope yet?

SMN is not "broken" on this event. If anything, it's more a blessing because it allows others to participate in a way that might not otherwise happen. For instance, there might not be anyone fighting the mobs--they could ust sleep everything, beat down the obstruction, ending it with virtually no rewards given at all. BECAUSE SMN can sustain the fighters like it does, it is able to be extended so everyone gets rewarded more in the long run because they are able to achieve various gols that would not be possible without people actually fighting the monsters.

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1. It's not leveling the playing field. It's destroying it in favor of SMN.

2. You do not know that and based off my on use of Cure 4 I find it a dubious claim. Regardless again that would be for SE to adjust as well with point gains.

3. You are saying exactly that with your argument you won't just admit it. In fact you just did just almost say it directly. Again telling a mage to melee. You've seen a 1k hexa on a root? Cause WHM sure won't last out in the open swinging at the PLD's mobs.

4. You're right for once. It's insane to try and get you to acknowledge any sort of reason. I'm going to stop.

5. PLD does not have an unfair advantage. If functions exactly the same in Reives as it does every where else in the game. BLM or BLU can sleep anything they want anywhere in the game. Again these are the standard operating mechanics of those jobs. I also would argue that trying to keep all these slept is suicide but to each his own. A well organized group could probably swing it.

6. I do see the slope. A very uphill battle to meet or even come close to performing a support job roll vs a SMN in Reives.

7. Only DD get rewarded with this broken game play mechanic. All the other mages get told to go away or melee.

You really do fail to see any of my points from anything other than someone that really likes to play SMN and anything for SMN is just.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

That... thats funny, Abyssea is part of where SMN is balanced? When it gets a single atma which works amazingly for it? Odin, Legion, these events are not balanced for SMN, they are events where you used PD and ShockSquall because you could not live without PD and you wanted stuns, so you used the SMN for SS because you wanted to make at least some use out of it after PD.

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Please quote me as saying SMN was balanced in abyssea. I infact just said that abyssea shut out many jobs not just SMN. Abyssea was also unbalanced from a proc perspective. I did say that SMN is able to solo most things in abyssea with the right atmas. Something that is not in dispute as I can see.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You get a time out penalty for leaving a reive. Again not upset they're useful. However it's useful to the point of being unbalanced. Thank you for your comments.

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You don't leave the rieve, you pick a side to stand on before it starts.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You don't leave the rieve, you pick a side to stand on before it starts.

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But I was told to just go to the other side! It's very easy and all.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Please quote me as saying SMN was balanced in abyssea. I infact just said that abyssea shut out many jobs not just SMN. Abyssea was also unbalanced from a proc perspective. I did say that SMN is able to solo most things in abyssea with the right atmas. Something that is not in dispute as I can see.

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Last line of the post you quoted in your post.

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Originally Posted by Aezelas

Speaking of unbalanced event, could you even name 1 or 2 events in the whole game balanced for SMN?

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Looked like you were replying to that part, in which case, you were claiming it was balanced.

The fact you are using Abyssea as an example of why SMN should be ok anyways is stupid in and of itself as Abyssea is irrelevant in this matter. The content is stupid easy, it has been for a long time, there is no reason why this should be an excuse for SMN to be nerfed in this content.

Wanna know what though, your whining, acting like SMN is some mega OP job which is stealing your ability to do anything, guess what, the job has few real uses. Uses, not abuses, people abused it in things like Odin and Legion, using it for only a single ability and nothing more, after which they used it for another ability which is not as good as its primary use, or other jobs performing the same action. Another event this job has use in is WoE, Walk of Echoes is another area which follows these same rules even. It has mobs which have Alliance hate, same as here, it allows BPs to hit everyone in or out of Alliance, same as here, its fairly similar, and guess what, its fine, because it works!

I don't know if I missed anything or not, but by skimming these posts from the last several hours, it seems like you're the only one that has it out for SMN over this.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Last line of the post you quoted in your post.

Looked like you were replying to that part, in which case, you were claiming it was balanced.

The fact you are using Abyssea as an example of why SMN should be ok anyways is stupid in and of itself as Abyssea is irrelevant in this matter. The content is stupid easy, it has been for a long time, there is no reason why this should be an excuse for SMN to be nerfed in this content.

Wanna know what though, your whining, acting like SMN is some mega OP job which is stealing your ability to do anything, guess what, the job has few real uses. Uses, not abuses, people abused it in things like Odin and Legion, using it for only a single ability and nothing more, after which they used it for another ability which is not as good as its primary use, or other jobs performing the same action. Another event this job has use in is WoE, Walk of Echoes is another area which follows these same rules even. It has mobs which have Alliance hate, same as here, it allows BPs to hit everyone in or out of Alliance, same as here, its fairly similar, and guess what, its fine, because it works!

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I was very specific when I said abyssea solo. Don't see how that could be misconstrued.

I didn't say SMN should be nerfed. I've never said that. Again the SMN community putting words in my mouth. I said the event needs adjusting. The result is SMN loses an ability it can't use anywhere else in the game.

I can't talk about Abyssea but you can talk about WoE? That's the pot calling the kettle black.

People still use SMN and PD in Odin and Legion. Present day. Not abused at all. If you don't do these events that's your fault. I've saw huge offensive BP numbers in Legion. Maybe it's the players not the job?

How many SMN's do you see in WoE btw? Hoards. You're helping me here as that part of my position has been that this is a tactic you will start seeing more and more as this expansion goes on.

Considering the tight quarters for colonization/lair reives filled to the brim with enemies capable of heavy AoE damage to everyone regardless of party/alliance status, I for one welcome our SMN overlords.

Why not try to debuff and buff to get points if you're having trouble healing? Honestly, even with two summoners you shouldn't have a problem landing heals. You say that summoners directly reduce the experience of others, but honestly so do any actions from anyone who isn't just DD, and half the time DD zerg down the roots and ruin it for everyone anyway. You just need to find what isn't being occupied. I can get awesome bayld as blu, but all it takes is someone occupying my niche to reduce bayld, so I use different spells. Start landing paralyzes and debuffs on mobs, people rarely do that and it's extremely helpful.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

I was very specific when I said abyssea solo. Don't see how that could be misconstrued.

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Because Abyssea is stupid easy and irrelevant content in the grand scheme of things when almost every job in there is able to do things far beyond its wildest dreams...

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I didn't say SMN should be nerfed. I've never said that. Again the SMN community putting words in my mouth. I said the event needs adjusting. The result is SMN loses an ability it can't use anywhere else in the game.

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Exactly, inside of this event its losing an ability from its current status, that sounds like a nerf to me!

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I can't talk about Abyssea but you can talk about WoE? That's the pot calling the kettle black.

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Because WoE does not have a ton of Atma which make every job overpowered beyond its wildest dreams, yes, WoE is another event just like Reives are, without any of the Atma, Abyssites, or Cruor buffs that Abyssea has.

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People still use SMN and PD in Odin and Legion. Present day. Not abused at all. If you don't do these events that's your fault. I've saw huge offensive BP numbers in Legion. Maybe it's the players not the job?

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Using PD as a primary use for a job is abuse in and of itself, no different than SCH was abused for Embrava, you brought the job for a single ability, everything else it did was simply a bonus to make the job less useless after that fact. If you want a DD in Legion you do not bring a SMN, you bring a WAR or DRK, the fact they do a few good BPs for damage is simply a bonus which offsets its normal worthlessness.

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How many SMN's do you see in WoE btw? Hoards. You're helping me here as that part of my position has been that this is a tactic you will start seeing more and more as this expansion goes on.

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Oh no, another event where SMN can actually perform as a job rather than an Invincibility Whore, what will the world do!?

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Originally Posted by Malphius

1. It's not leveling the playing field. It's destroying it in favor of SMN.

2. You do not know that and based off my on use of Cure 4 I find it a dubious claim. Regardless again that would be for SE to adjust as well with point gains.

3. You are saying exactly that with your argument you won't just admit it. In fact you just did just almost say it directly. Again telling a mage to melee. You've seen a 1k hexa on a root? Cause WHM sure won't last out in the open swinging at the PLD's mobs.

4. You're right for once. It's insane to try and get you to acknowledge any sort of reason. I'm going to stop.

5. PLD does not have an unfair advantage. If functions exactly the same in Reives as it does every where else in the game. BLM or BLU can sleep anything they want anywhere in the game. Again these are the standard operating mechanics of those jobs. I also would argue that trying to keep all these slept is suicide but to each his own. A well organized group could probably swing it.

6. I do see the slope. A very uphill battle to meet or even come close to performing a support job roll vs a SMN in Reives.

7. Only DD get rewarded with this broken game play mechanic. All the other mages get told to go away or melee.

You really do fail to see any of my points from anything other than someone that really likes to play SMN and anything for SMN is just.

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wth do all the numbers point to? lol

no, was beating on the mobs--was consistantly popping off right around 1k, depending on the level of boost at the time. Never could get it to work out where I could busrt off a light or something though...was always gravitation or darkness... a little disappointing, but still fun.

And yes, I did take a beating (as noted in my previous posts). A few times when a mob got out of hand, I turned and reposed it (pesky wabbits). I evaded, I parried, I got hit, I regened, got the reive goal and had hp restored....got healed from the avatars....rinse/repeat. you know... all that good stuff that you see happen when you are on SAM. Off and on we had garuda, leviathin, and carby with us on one side, a garuda on the other--died twice when I went to that side with just one avatar, but still got 480 xp at the end even though I was idling in weakened state for most of it, which amused the hell out of me. After that, I opted to stay with the larger group for safety's sake.

getting the feeling you've never seiously meleed on WHM.... which is a real shame. WHINJA is fun. WHM/SAM is even more fun at times.

LOL.. I'm failing to see reason...when you've been provided concrete examples. ooooo... k.

Guess you weren't catching the reference to PLD. You have no problem with a PLD holding an entire reive, raking in all that credit while others are left with eeking out what they can by picking off the mobs until the nest gets beat down and it ends. But a SMN sustaining everyone so they have the same fair shot at rewards while pets beat down the roots/crag, that's a no-no and must go, even though this benefits everyone by meare virtue of extending the event longer.

The example of sleeping the mobs while the obstacle gets cleared is viable tactic... and used quite regularly I might add. I've even used my Shiva for it a few times to backup the BRD. But no... that's not robbing ANYONE of their opportunity for greater rewards....

And yes, I enjoy SMN... when I can use it well enough to be on it, but didn't come to it really until I found a niche for it with WotG fights. I have 10 jobs I can play, for the most part decently geared, but nothing amazing...always considered myself a casual player. Otherwise, I'm usually on something like NIN, SAM, MNK, WAR. Once in a while I get nostalgaic and blow things up on BLM (my first to 75 ages ago). For the most part these days, it's usually SMN or NIN, other jobs as needed for proc or to fill a role in a strategy--or if we are just wanting to mix things up for the helluvit.

Not sure why any of that matters, just commenting since you went there. My reason for posting in this thread is to preserve what I and apparently others see as being more or less fair for a job that is otherwise treated rather poorly by either SE or the players (in some cases both). It seams more like someone got upset because the ginger kid figured out a way to upstage them in an event they expected they had all rights to be top dog in, and regardless of how people try to show them ways to overcome the disparity, they just want to dig in their heals and cry foul over the whole deal. At least I've put some effort into substantiating my claim that there is something that someone can do to level the playing field....seems more like you are the one that is objecting to reasonable thought in that arena.

And I doubt that only DD are getting rewarded with athis "broken game mechanic". I wasn't just meleeing in my litle excursion. I was enfeebling, doing magic damage, dealing physical damage, taking damage, recovering damage. I could likely do the same on my BLM or my NIN, just haven't ventured out there with it yet to see how it behaves....simply because it's been so much easier with my heavier hitters (plus, I've been breaking off to farm items and skill guard on MNK here and there too, and changing all that gear out in moghouse is a pain).

So, in summation... no, I don't simply like to play SMN and see anything for SMN as being just. What I do see as being just is a mechanic that makes an otherwise difficult task easy to do. Their is no denying that having a prepared SMN in a reive makes it easier for everyone else there. It is also pretty obvious that without using this feature, SMN's rewards would be absurdly low, so low to the point that it could very well disuade their participation in the event (think back to BRD in campaign, ages ago I know, but it's kinda in line with it). Loosing the benefit of this mechanic could eventually make reives untenable if it causes participation to drop because of issues with survivablilty.

In light of these points, I would rather they not remove this feature but instead the players work to find an alternative way for everyone to participate. That is what I did. I had an idea founded entirely in my combined experiences with beseiged, campaign, and bastion for jobs that were not rewarde very well for their typical roles--and applied them to this event. And, was pleasently surprised when it actually worked out rather well.

There are alternatives to castrating a job in order to balance this event out.

There's a scary thought....where would the human race be if the solution to gender equality was castration.

Sorry, random thought that hit me after I typed that line....but the absurdity of the statement shows the absurdity of the proposal.

Job X can't progress well because job Y is better at doing something job X is supposed to be able to do, therefore take that away from job Y so that X can do it (although, less effectively in the scope of the event). It doesn't matter that that one thing is about the only thing that job Y can do to contribute significantly and that job A-X have lots of other ways they can contribute, or can otherwise rectify their issues. No, job Y, who basically has no other option but to repeatadly do this one thing over and over again to advance on par with everyone else, needs to learn it's role and shut it's mouth so that everyone else can be the winners, leaving job Y limping along at a reduced capacity.

Yeah.... job Y supporters are the unreasonable ones.

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Because Abyssea is stupid easy and irrelevant content in the grand scheme of things when almost every job in there is able to do things far beyond its wildest dreams...

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And SMN isn't? My point though was that WoE is also out dated. I do agree that WoE is more difficult. However when looking at the ability SMN have there it's not as big of a deal as the goal is to defeat the boss and you are rewarded with treasure. The reward from reives is points based upon creating large numbers in terms of cure or damage done. The ability in this event excludes an entire class from obtaining those rewards.

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Exactly, inside of this event its losing an ability from its current status, that sounds like a nerf to me!

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Nah just putting it on the same playing field as all the other mages.

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Exactly, inside of this event its losing an ability from its current status, that sounds like a nerf to me!

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SMN is more like SCH than a DD. I used to main SCH all the time till they changed embrava. But before hand I was perfectly happy with being used for Embrava and then spot curing or baby sitting the PLD. Like me the SMN's use PD and then spot cure and/or use offensive BP's on the NM's. Same thing in Odin. Why is this so different? What roll is it that the SMN community wants to fill?

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Oh no, another event where SMN can actually perform as a job rather than an Invincibility Whore, what will the world do!?

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Again plese tell me what event SMN is not welcome in. I can't think of one. I'm sorry you're not happy with one of the most powerful and most needed 2hrs in the game. That has nothing to do with this topic though which is that an entire job class is going to be pushed out of Reives and the only thing that SMN's can say is that they deserve to because they don't like playing SMN.

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Originally Posted by Siven

Why not try to debuff and buff to get points if you're having trouble healing? Honestly, even with two summoners you shouldn't have a problem landing heals. You say that summoners directly reduce the experience of others, but honestly so do any actions from anyone who isn't just DD, and half the time DD zerg down the roots and ruin it for everyone anyway. You just need to find what isn't being occupied. I can get awesome bayld as blu, but all it takes is someone occupying my niche to reduce bayld, so I use different spells. Start landing paralyzes and debuffs on mobs, people rarely do that and it's extremely helpful.

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While all those functions are useful to perform they are not useful in the accumulation of obtaining points. With DD vs DD it's very different. It's a race to the bottom not a race to the top. Enemies and roots/rocks/trees etc... have MASSIVE hp numbers so that any DD can pick a mob and spend some time on it thus fulfilling their function and obtaining Bayld. With mages it's a race to the top and the players around you have very low HP numbers. 1 BP ability from a SMN completely cures them full until another few AoE go off and the next SMN uses BP.

Moving to another zone would help but certain zones obtain better points than others. Certain zones have more reives than others. I also disagree with the "if you don't like it leave" philosophy. This game is very bandwagony. In two weeks tops there will be 10 SMN in the salt fields spamming BP's.

You made all valid points but the results are the same in the end.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Nah just putting it on the same playing field as all the other mages.

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Actually, no. It lowers their potential in a major way. The other mages have considerably more options for increasing rewards in comparison. That seems to be a very important point that keeps getting missed.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Think that's something that is being sorely neglected here... the overall reward for participation. Just looking at the rewards for hitting goals is not an accurate reflection. You continuosly get rewarded as time passes. Need to consider your overall earnings.

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Yeah, I tested out smn. You don't realy get as much as a DD can overall, it's just a LOT lazier.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

That has nothing to do with this topic though which is that an entire job class is going to be pushed out of Reives and the only thing that SMN's can say is that they deserve to because they don't like playing SMN.

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You cant come to an event because another job is taking your place? Level another job... It may not be SMN but guess what, I main RDM, I play it a ton when I can, but I get excluded from almost every event in the game. Your whining about not getting to get a lot of points in a single event insults me honestly, because my situation is much worse than yours is, yet you have to argue with everyone who disagrees for hours about how SMN is broken.

Simple truth incoming! You can deal without going in Reives and getting a ton of points, if you go on WHM and know it gets low points then you instantly chose to subject yourself to that sub-par point gain. The easiest solution to that problem is leveling another job, or dealing with the low points you chose anyways, end of story.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

You cant come to an event because another job is taking your place? Level another job... It may not be SMN but guess what, I main RDM, I play it a ton when I can, but I get excluded from almost every event in the game. Your whining about not getting to get a lot of points in a single event insults me honestly, because my situation is much worse than yours is, yet you have to argue with everyone who disagrees for hours about how SMN is broken.

Simple truth incoming! You can deal without going in Reives and getting a ton of points, if you go on WHM and know it gets low points then you instantly chose to subject yourself to that sub-par point gain. The easiest solution to that problem is leveling another job, or dealing with the low points you chose anyways, end of story.

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or <gasp> try something different...whatever that may be.

Very few things are "written in stone" with this game. You can usually find different ways to approach a problem within the game's framework, just sometimes takes a little more effort or planning is all.

Personally I like when a SMN shows up and starts spamming buffs I've already given out, that allows me to whip out the hammer and destroy things with my PLD buddy and hand out raises when BP timers are down and somebody gets floored. If someone wants to muscle in on healing and support I'll gladly move aside and then step back in to pick up the broken bodies, but not out of the kindness of my heart. In fact if I didn't get points for it I'd just let the dead people stay there. :)

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You cant come to an event because another job is taking your place? Level another job... It may not be SMN but guess what, I main RDM, I play it a ton when I can, but I get excluded from almost every event in the game. Your whining about not getting to get a lot of points in a single event insults me honestly, because my situation is much worse than yours is, yet you have to argue with everyone who disagrees for hours about how SMN is broken.

Simple truth incoming! You can deal without going in Reives and getting a ton of points, if you go on WHM and know it gets low points then you instantly chose to subject yourself to that sub-par point gain. The easiest solution to that problem is leveling another job, or dealing with the low points you chose anyways, end of story.

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How is your situation worse than mine? You chose to level jobs you don't enjoy playing or only enjoy playing as long as you can choose the roll they should play. I'm also sorry you can't always go on the job you want to. Life is hard. Perfect reasoning for why SMN deserves special treatment in this event.

Thank you for imparting me with the "Simple truth". Once again for the 100th time I never brought WHM into this. Other people did to which I then said I said I come on a multitude of jobs some of them being mage jobs such as SCH and WHM. It depends on what I see before I go out there. After I get there however I can't control what else comes after that.

Simple Truth(TM), you are self centered and greedy just like a few of the other people that have chosen to say they deserve special treatment (at the expense of others) and that everyone else that doesn't like it can gtfo.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Once again for the 100th time I never brought WHM into this. Other people did to which I then said I said I come on a multitude of jobs some of them being mage jobs such as SCH and WHM.

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wait... what?

Original Post:

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Originally Posted by Malphius

So I was doing Colonization Reives in Morimar Basalt Fields today. I was on WHM having a great time healing my party, buffing, doing my job, etc... when out of no where come 4 summoners and that's when things went down hill.

Because Summoner BP's seem to have no boundaries in terms of party/alliance they are going to completely rain down epic fails on the point gains of other support class jobs. I went from 500~700 Bayld per tally to 100 if lucky because all 4 Summoners were spamming BP's. That was with my trying to spam curaga to keep up.

BP's in Reives needs limited to party only or this is going to become PLD + SMN + DD only event.

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Sure sounds like this thread basically exists because some summoners reduced your rewards from curing on WHM.

I'd imagine that's probably why it keeps coming back up. Or am I missing some hidden message? Do I need to make a Super Secret Spy Decoder?

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Because Summoner BP's seem to have no boundaries in terms of party/alliance they are going to completely rain down epic fails on the point gains of other support class jobs. I went from 500~700 Bayld per tally to 100 if lucky because all 4 Summoners were spamming BP's. That was with my trying to spam curaga to keep up.

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You're right I did mention WHM first. What I should have more properly said was that I was never making this about WHM vs SMN. Also in the original post I said "other support class jobs" which has been what all this has been about. It was after this point that WHM kept being brought back into this. I would be making the same statements regardless of what mage job I was on.

And you were right the first time when you said "killed" my rewards.

Reives are Campaign Battles (more or less.) Because it was near impossible for SMN to get any exp in Campaign Battles, Square-Enix made it so that Blood Pacts (which we can only use every 45secs with gear btw) will affect all with allied tags so that they may obtain exp/allied notes. Same thing with Reives.

I say the game is working as intended. SMNs have it hard enough at everything that isn't Walk of Echoes and Campaign Battles (talking about events where you need large numbers.) SMNs were only brought to other things to Perfect Defense. But those were all just alts people burned to alexander. And then the Perfect Defense patch comes in, and back to no more summoners.

So give Summoners a break.

If your argument is to level the playing field then WHM/RDM/SCH/etc shouldn't be allowed to heal/buff/anything to anyone outside their own parties as well. Additionally they must suffer universal 45sec cool downs on all their spells after using any single one of them. Hows that for balance.

Just thought I'd chime in with 2 comments in response to no one in particular but:

1) You all know it would be epic if the party restriction on Healing Breeze was lifted. We'd all come /BLU and spam it all day. Nobody would ever die again.

2) BST's Lucky Lulush- God, I love that rabbit- is just as capable of healing like a Summoner boss with Wild Carrot. I don't why the rest of you guys were showing up with the hippogryph or slug. But after doing a few Reives as a BST with rarab, I'm never doing Reive as RDM again. Being able to mass heal 20 or so people is just that much more rewarding in Bayld.

Community effort? Hastes for everyone? Group cures?

Who needs that when you can just wipe because your Whm/Sch/Rdm's ect can't:

Target you fast enough through 50+ targets,
See your life bars 24/7,
Accidently try curing themselves, because you blinked your gear.

Clearly the answer is staring us straight in the face.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

How is your situation worse than mine? You chose to level jobs you don't enjoy playing or only enjoy playing as long as you can choose the roll they should play. I'm also sorry you can't always go on the job you want to. Life is hard. Perfect reasoning for why SMN deserves special treatment in this event.

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My thoughts exactly, we can not make every job useful in every event, WHM is useful in almost every single event, so is SCH, or really any healing job, those DDs aren't going to heal themselves after all! Jobs like SMN with healing powers restricted to parties are often worthless in healing though, they can only heal their party, they must take up a useful spot for DDs or buffers, where as WHM, SCH, RDM, even PLD, can cure across an Alliance or outside of a party. Sounds like a great reason to give SMN special treatment, I agree.

As for my situation being worse... In the event we are talking about WHM specifically, you are needed in almost every single event in the game, the few which you are not amazing in are low man events, where SCH excels, like Salvage, or Meeble Burrows. However, RDM, thats a job no one wants anywhere really, we can do it all, but were masters of none. BLU has us beat when you want a DD who can provide some lighter support, so no calling on us for that, SCH thrashes our abilities of Light and Dark magic alone, WHM and BLM obviously beat us in both of the individual magic fields, and DDs crush our melee damage because our gear is lousy. So how are our jobs different? How is my situation worse? WHMs, SCHs, they get called on for a few different events, people take them places often, RDM is left in a corner, so to see you complaining about a single event where you are not very effective and you feel as though these jobs are unfairly left out, it makes me realize just how you fail to understand my position. I would kill to be able to use my RDM in most event and be excluded from an event or two because of another job, instead, I am excluded from almost every event, and only brought when no one else will come and I am willing to. No offense, but don't you dare try to compare your situation of being left out of an event or two to my situation I have been stuck with for more than a couple years as RDM.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Simple Truth(TM), you are self centered and greedy just like a few of the other people that have chosen to say they deserve special treatment (at the expense of others) and that everyone else that doesn't like it can gtfo.

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Yes, I am self centered and greedy, I use my SMN in here so much. Here, allow me to link you to my character on AH.com where you can see my Lv6 SMN...

See that? Not self centered, not benefiting from this at all in any way that you are not if you come as a melee job, in fact, I get punished, I get SMNs casting haste on me, an annoyance as a RDM where my Haste lasts well over 3 times as long as theirs. Tell me, how I am self centered again?

Anyone try gearing whm/sam for Cataclysm spammage???

I actually see no reason to nerf smn in colonization reives. They benefit the group by powercuring and aoe buffing the masses. I went and did SMN/WHM and WAR/SAM tonite and saw no real difference in my SMN getting bayld and my other character on war spamming fell cleave and fury.

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Originally Posted by Metalgod

Anyone try gearing whm/sam for Cataclysm spammage???

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Yes. It's awesome.

From a SMN's perspective you're stealing all their Bayld with your Curaga's. Obviously, the more people you have the less Bayld everyone is going to get overall.

As a SMN I appreciate that my BPs affect everyone. As a DD I appreciate the free buffs and cures. This is a boon to the vast majority of players doing Reives. Since the positive outweighs the negative, I see no reason for a nerf.

As far as SMN goes: it's squishy, a terrible melee, is almost entirely reliant on its pets which are also fairly squishy, and is hampered by a lengthy JA timer. If you want to remove the super-AOE ability from SMN then you put them in a far worse boat than your WHM or any other job. You have options at your disposal. SMN really doesn't.

SMN has just as many options as WHM, get some DA pieces and wear a couple of accuracy rings, maybe chew on some sushi and beat roots while you spam buffs and cures. Stop acting like you have no options other than spamming Wards.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

SMN has just as many options as WHM, get some DA pieces and wear a couple of accuracy rings, maybe chew on some sushi and beat roots while you spam buffs and cures. Stop acting like you have no options other than spamming Wards.

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A WHM is telling a SMN they have options? lawl that's rich. WHM has nearly all of Vana'diel on a silver platter, but SMN is the one with "options." You really think I don't melee and use everything I have at my disposal? Don't make stupid, baseless assumptions.

Even taking the rest of the game out of the equation WHM is superior to SMN as a melee, as a healer by a long shot, and is more durable yet somehow that's still not enough. Not only do you have to keep those advantages, you want to take SMN's away so that yours are even more advantageous. What a bunch of nonsense.

Wait, when did I say I want to take away SMN's advantages? I don't support nerfing their AoE or anything, I was just suggesting a way to help improve what sounded to me like unsatisfactory results being reported by my fellow mage bros. There's no need to be so salty.

E: SMN has higher staff skill than WHM and has access to most of the same melee gear WHM does. Just saying.

What about Blus or Bsts who solo rieves in your line of thought that would be giving them an unfair advantage over the other jobs. Wanted to do that layer rieve? Too bad that blu just soloed it... Get there faster next time.

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Originally Posted by Kaeoni

Community effort? Hastes for everyone? Group cures?

Who needs that when you can just wipe because your Whm/Sch/Rdm's ect can't:

Target you fast enough through 50+ targets,
See your life bars 24/7,
Accidently try curing themselves, because you blinked your gear.

Clearly the answer is staring us straight in the face.

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An even better solution would be for Curaga, Accession'd Cure, Healing Breeze, and that Waltz thingy DNC to also have the ability to target everyone. Not everything must be about nerfing.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

An even better solution would be for Curaga, Accession'd Cure, Healing Breeze, and that Waltz thingy DNC to also have the ability to target everyone. Not everything must be about nerfing.

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I like this, so we can all share the responsibility of support, and also to help the SMN bro out when Ward is on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

An even better solution would be for Curaga, Accession'd Cure, Healing Breeze, and that Waltz thingy DNC to also have the ability to target everyone. Not everything must be about nerfing.

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Sounds good to me, I hate nerfs like you do man. It just discourages me when I see people complaining that "one job can't do one thing another job can and here is the reason it should get nerfed" because my job is better, for, sorry, what reasons?

This game is fairly unique in the fashion you can have multiple jobs leveled on the same character. It's pretty cool that we can so easily share a lot of our gear with similar jobs. I say similar loosely, keep some originality, I'm all for fair, but there needs to be some kind of line.

I'm mad.. I went to solo reive on SMN today and there were like 5 bst there spamming wild carrot... dey terk mah jerb!! nerf nerf!
(Just kidding, got 4k plus. melee were looking a little rough from all the rabbit aoe spam.. I think they were happy that the bsts and I was there)