Scholar Has lost it's ability to be useful, please fix this.

give sch the spell haste make it accessionable
allow me to merit more stratagem charges
make embrava and kaustra acessable when sch is sub
give sch debuffs like other mage jobs, silence blind slow.
rdm started with addle then they gave it to whm so may as well make this mage job a clone of the others

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

The idea of Sch is flawed for this game, if you want a Whm, you take a whm, if you want a blm you take a blm (or a sch)..... The idea that a job would be chosen over their dedicated couterparts to fill in is goofy, ..... Along with 1/2 the other jobs, the schs who main the job know their strengths and weaknesses, but they make it work, Sch's embrava spotted them into spots , the adjustments to Whm (cure skin, massive addition to cure potency gear), Blm- better efficiency, aspir 2, aja's /rdm /Sch killed a lot of the reasons a sch could function better than either at their respective arts..... Sch shouldn't have bulldogged Whm out of whms job, nor blms, but they did, and now the schs want to cry injustice...... Least that's my take, it is what it is, blms been living that for a while, put the big boy pants on and suck it up.... But yeah, s.e giving new toys to compensate for something that maybe was a bit rediculous to begin with..... Meh, well see it when we see it,..... But sch is just as useful as ever imo. Just not better at things than the masters of the respective arts.

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i disagree i play whm blm and sch and sometimes the retired rdm which is where u r trying to send sch.
as far as healing goes none compare to whm cure 6 i can nearly 1800 to 2k hp back at most sch can do 1300with cure4

blm nuking has that AoE factor which i have been using to make nuke staves sch is good at single targets

the ONLY way sch can keep up the healing a whm can do is having embrava on which at max lasts 12 minutes and does not gurantee you will live because mobs still one shot you and ur 2 hour is wasted.

if sch gets cure 5, and is able to manifestation their nukes then you can cry

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

i disagree i play whm blm and sch and sometimes the retired rdm which is where u r trying to send sch.
as far as healing goes none compare to whm cure 6 i can nearly 1800 to 2k hp back at most sch can do 1300with cure4

blm nuking has that AoE factor which i have been using to make nuke staves sch is good at single targets

the ONLY way sch can keep up the healing a whm can do is having embrava on which at max lasts 12 minutes and does not gurantee you will live because mobs still one shot you and ur 2 hour is wasted.

if sch gets cure 5, and is able to manifestation their nukes then you can cry

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lol who's crying here, I'm just pointing out that prior to the cap increases Sch was the defacto best healer in the game, shouldn't have been that way, but was, now the two that were proud of being able to do better (rdm/Sch), what Whm was ment to do the best, can't any more, im going to say about time.... Now the schs can start being schs and not fill in whms slots, whms get stuff to do, and the sch (and rdms) start doing their own thing, but their "idea" of best of both worlds can't exist, when there are the genuine articles, Whm, and blm.... Embrava... and a rediculous short spell delay (rdms) not to mention the dd /skill chain abilities most schs,fail to reaLise they have are pretty boss themselves. sch is gonna be fine, yall will always have klimaform.....

just as i thought Nawesemeo u r praying for a nerf cause u r a scholar hater. klimaform dont amount to much but i got the sarcasm.

Naaaaaa, I like the job, I'm not a fan of stratgiam charges, or the recast of them, but like my shells schs just fine, they throw out some nasty nukes, and make convenient skill chains from time to time, but to say the job is lol losing usefulness is just crazy talk, but the Blm inside can't help but giggle at the big bad schs Q.Qing here, given all the hub bub about being all that for so long, and just now realizing, they're just like the rest of US mages, big fat nobodies,...... lol sort of. my blm is the shizznit, my sch drops bigger bombs still, i dont see useless.....yet, but being put in your place never was any fun for anyone who's had their leash yanked.... Again, it is what it is, far from useless, just not the,cream of the crop no more, ....a level playing field too much to have to compensate for?

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Originally Posted by Afania

Ppl have BRD mule, WHM mule, COR mule, SMN mule, RDM mule and TH mule all the time or even WAR NIN mule in abby all the time, so that's not really SCH issue.

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Love how when talking about thf its just TH, you named 9 jobs in that list, but instead of thf you just say TH. THF has been a job trait for way too long, fuck sch fix thf.

Wait wait ... this makes no sense.

SCH's scream and cry to be useful for "something other then Embrava". SE's says their going to change all 2hrs to 30min and in doing so reduce the effectiveness of Embrava (nerf), then adjust SCH to be more useful for "something other then Embrava". The EXACT SAME SCH's then scream and cry about that...

Seriously ... it's like you people expected to have the most powerful 2hr in the game on a 30min timer AND have the best healing / nuking / enfeebling / buffing abilities in the game. Seriously.... a wee bit unrealistic don't you think.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Wait wait ... this makes no sense.

SCH's scream and cry to be useful for "something other then Embrava". SE's says their going to change all 2hrs to 30min and in doing so reduce the effectiveness of Embrava (nerf), then adjust SCH to be more useful for "something other then Embrava". The EXACT SAME SCH's then scream and cry about that...

Seriously ... it's like you people expected to have the most powerful 2hr in the game on a 30min timer AND have the best healing / nuking / enfeebling / buffing abilities in the game. Seriously.... a wee bit unrealistic don't you think.

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Indeed, they basically confirmed they were going to make SCH and SMN more useful... It's the first time they've actually confirmed working on current jobs usually its... "Well we could, but due to balance we wont."

Saying they will and actually doing so are 2 completely different worlds where SE is concerned. They could just nerf SCH and SMN 2hrs and leave it at that. If FFXI wasn't just one big zergfest we wouldn't have to rely so heavily on these 2hrs.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

Saying they will and actually doing so are 2 completely different worlds where SE is concerned. They could just nerf SCH and SMN 2hrs and leave it at that. If FFXI wasn't just one big zergfest we wouldn't have to rely so heavily on these 2hrs.

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It's more indication than. "We'll be making Embrava and PD weaker due to the 2-hour update ... END"

SMN is already guaranteed to be getting two new avatars, so we already know SMN is being worked on, As such the likelihood is SCH is too.

Let's not confuse this with when Tanaka worked on FFXI, in a small amount of time the new guy has already proved to be remotely interested in listening to player feedback in the 2-hour update itself.

I love my SCH as I do my SMN so I'm hoping these changes are worthwhile, I hate being invited to events based on my enhancing skill or whether or not I have Alexander.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Wait wait ... this makes no sense.

SCH's scream and cry to be useful for "something other then Embrava". SE's says their going to change all 2hrs to 30min and in doing so reduce the effectiveness of Embrava (nerf), then adjust SCH to be more useful for "something other then Embrava". The EXACT SAME SCH's then scream and cry about that...

Seriously ... it's like you people expected to have the most powerful 2hr in the game on a 30min timer AND have the best healing / nuking / enfeebling / buffing abilities in the game. Seriously.... a wee bit unrealistic don't you think.

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The only person who seems to have any trouble with it is Ezikiel (who hadn't even posted in this thread before?), I'm actually quite happy with these changes and I'm fairly certain I was the one screaming and crying the most over how awful Embrava was, I can see how you'd miss that after I said I loved these coming adjustments though. Practically nobody in this thread is upset about the Embrava nerf, almost everyone welcomes it, the only issue is SE doesn't have a terribly good history of making up for short comings with a job. How is that enfeebling magic adjustment working out again?

Ever since the embrava adjustments have been announced, this thread has become nothing but a bunch of BLMs and RDMs whining.

Like Sotek, I am welcoming the embrava nerf, but only as long as SE actually makes the job useful in other ways. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen, but it's kind of sad to see how the RDM and BLM community have turned to crab mentality in light of events like Neo-Nyzul, where they aren't wanted.

In...a.....thread about Sch's useless-ness you expected unanimous support from the community? Lol.

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Originally Posted by Eric

Ever since the embrava adjustments have been announced, this thread has become nothing but a bunch of BLMs and RDMs whining.

Like Sotek, I am welcoming the embrava nerf, but only as long as SE actually makes the job useful in other ways. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen, but it's kind of sad to see how the RDM and BLM community have turned to crab mentality in light of events like Neo-Nyzul, where they aren't wanted.

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Generalizations and hyperbole are not helpful either. I have never heard of a blm whining about neo -nyzul. Blms were not welcome in original nyzul, I am sure no one was expecting to be wanted in neo nyzul. That has to do with black magic in general being marginalized which will be my 2nd topic, my first is the use of scholar in nyzul. I do have a neo nyzul static consisting of 2 sch, 2 drks a war and a blue. Just putting that out there to stem the "you mad" and "you jelly" comments.

Original nyzul was to me and my friends, one of the best events in endgame. It was low man, could do with friends, was a good event to utilize skype/vent on, was pretty inclusive, and had good rewards. Neo-nyzul, is gimmicky and exclusive. By gimmicky I am referring to relying on 1/3 of the party being scholars, casting their 2 hours, and then having to reset the 2 hour between runs. Does anyone really think that is good game design? IF the event is no longer won by using embrava, SE can evaluate it and make adjustments as needed. (Hopefully) Scholar will still be the best healer, as it excels in low man content, and has the ability to nuke unlike white mage. The main reason scholar lacked at 75 nyzul was lack of haste, which is rectified at 99.

As for black mage's envy of scholars, it is actually irrelevant at this point. Elemental magic as a whole is useless. When people return to the game the first thing I tell them is black mage is now obsolete. Level it to get into abyssea and vw pickups for procs, but do not expect to enjoy it like pre ToAU days. SE made the decision to punish black mages for the pre ToAU strategies of "throw more black mages at it." That resulted in the melee/zerg mentality that exists to this day. So really black mage vs. scholar dark arts is pointless, because they are both equally useless for most content. Sch alacrity stun has replaced blm stun order, but a stun order was a silly reason for a job anyway.

As for rdm. vs. scholar, anyway who disputes rdm is a totally dead job hasn't done any real events. Sch beats rdm in everything, except melee, and rdm melee has always been a joke. There is probably some resentment from career red mages there, because scholars has gotten a lot of improvements that some think should have went to red mage. I always remember reading someone's thoughts that scholar never should have existed, dark arts should have gone to blm, light arts to whm, and storm spells and helixes to red mage. That is water under the bridge now, but SE used a lot of great ideas on scholars other jobs would have liked.

In closing, a lot of mages do not see scholar in that bad shape. Outside of abyssea white mage has come down to earth. It is still the best, and it should be, but I organize a lot of ls events and I consider scholars competent healers capable of sustaining a party. Most scholars you get in pickups though just want to play nuker, I don't see a lot of scholars that love healing the way hard core white mages do. Maybe I know the wrong scholars.

My personal ranking of mages is White Mage and Scholar most useful, black mage great for proc'ing and occasional melee resistant bosses, red mage dead. So like a lot of people I do not see a great need to buff scholar, although I do agree MV should be fixed, and the tp spell should grant 3 tp. Also Libra is pretty pointless.

sch is not ment to be a main healer or a main nuke they have the ability to use both and its also based on a prinsible <spell nazi attack> nuke a mob enhance party heal at the end

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Originally Posted by Sotek

The only person who seems to have any trouble with it is Ezikiel (who hadn't even posted in this thread before?), I'm actually quite happy with these changes and I'm fairly certain I was the one screaming and crying the most over how awful Embrava was, I can see how you'd miss that after I said I loved these coming adjustments though. Practically nobody in this thread is upset about the Embrava nerf, almost everyone welcomes it, the only issue is SE doesn't have a terribly good history of making up for short comings with a job. How is that enfeebling magic adjustment working out again?

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Co-signed.

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As for rdm. vs. scholar, anyway who disputes rdm is a totally dead job hasn't done any real events. Sch beats rdm in everything, except melee, and rdm melee has always been a joke. There is probably some resentment from career red mages there, because scholars has gotten a lot of improvements that some think should have went to red mage. I always remember reading someone's thoughts that scholar never should have existed, dark arts should have gone to blm, light arts to whm, and storm spells and helixes to red mage. That is water under the bridge now, but SE used a lot of great ideas on scholars other jobs would have liked.

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That was me. SCH shouldn't of been created as it's concept is a direct copy of RDM's just with more utility tossed in. It really boxed in SE onto what they could do to RDM / BLM / WHM when the level cap was raised over 80. WHM was ok due to the power of Cure V and Curaga + Emp feet. RDM and BLM on the other hand got tossed into near oblivion with the important of procing being BLM's only saving grace. RDM on the other hand was completely thrown away as it provides nothing that SCH couldn't do better, even RDM's job defining CSS has been taken over by a pair of SCH/BLMs. Breaking SCH's set of JA's and spells between those three jobs would of lead to a significant increase in their utility, instead we're left with SE trying to balance the four of them while not letting them be copy's of each other.

But that's all in the past and we've got to play with the cards we're dealt. From here on out SE has to be really careful what it does with SCH, buff it too much and it instantly replaces all three, buff it to little and the players scream for being "only wanted for embrava".

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Original nyzul was to me and my friends, one of the best events in endgame. It was low man, could do with friends, was a good event to utilize skype/vent on, was pretty inclusive, and had good rewards. Neo-nyzul, is gimmicky and exclusive. By gimmicky I am referring to relying on 1/3 of the party being scholars, casting their 2 hours, and then having to reset the 2 hour between runs. Does anyone really think that is good game design?

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Old Nyzul at 75 "requires" RDM SAM etc too.

New nyzul "requires" SCH is not because it's "bad" design, it's just because SCH is the most optimal mage job for new nyzul, like how RDM was most optimal mage for old Nyzul. If the event is more difficult, then it will require more optimal setup. If it's easier, than you have more freedom to use sub optimal job/setup and get it done.

I agree current 2hr recast is too long though, if the point of having 2hr JA is to have 1 JA to use per event, then it should be 30 min recast instead of 2hr then waste more time to reset.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Old Nyzul at 75 "requires" RDM SAM etc too.

New nyzul "requires" SCH is not because it's "bad" design, it's just because SCH is the most optimal mage job for new nyzul, like how RDM was most optimal mage for old Nyzul. If the event is more difficult, then it will require more optimal setup. If it's easier, than you have more freedom to use sub optimal job/setup and get it done.

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That is an incorrect statement. My original Nyzul static, who I also got Captain Rank with, was whm, brd, drk, mnk, thf and lolpld. (He refused to level any other job) Not ideal at all, but we were very good players who hung out, knew each other, had good to great gear, and were on skype. I honestly believe we never lost after the first few runs. I don't remember any guides that said you HAD to have rdm or sam. Of course the herp derp shouts for pickups may have been sam/rdm only, but pickups need the idiot proof jobs as a rule, because no one wanted to chance a drk or thf at 75 in a pickup when they could have an ah geared, hagun sam 2 houring. I also took a bunch of social ls members into nyzul for gear, climbs or farming, and never required sam or rdm to win. You are correct in the 2nd part, old nyzul was very flexible because it was pretty easy. I actually love the excitement and pace of neo nyzul, just feel the reliance on scholar 2 hours is a bit ridiculous. I do not think that is a particular radical statement, many agree with me.

I have been playing 7 years, and have participated in every end game activity. I also organize a lot of them. I never saw an event that was so small (6) and required so many of 1 job to win. Even in the big alliance events where 2 hours were needed, it was more of a joint venture. Soul Voice, chain spell, manafont, kclub/mkris dark, mighty strikes war, Sams 2 houring. It wasn't oh as long as we got SMNs and Scholars to rotate its all good.

if they nerf embrava i saw someone say change the tp spell adloquium that would be nice i still want shcolar to have the spell haste without rdm or whm sub

Although I've been on the record since the implementation that I love Embrava, I wouldn't mind a nerf as long as other adjustments still allow me to play SCH as much as I do now. My problem is the 76-99 stretch pre-Embrava was pure awful as an attempt to give SCHs something unique and useful. With that history, I'm not optimistic about the future SCH popularity. Maybe the new producer will do it right, who knows.

My fear is that there's going to be a lot of praise for the science of game design and balance that takes the Embrava requirement out of the picture, but the only important reality for me will that I end up never using SCH again. I'd just cancel until GEO rather than slum it on BLM or WHM every night again.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Although I've been on the record since the implementation that I love Embrava, I wouldn't mind a nerf as long as other adjustments still allow me to play SCH as much as I do now. My problem is the 76-99 stretch pre-Embrava was pure awful as an attempt to give SCHs something unique and useful. With that history, I'm not optimistic about the future SCH popularity. Maybe the new producer will do it right, who knows.

My fear is that there's going to be a lot of praise for the science of game design and balance that takes the Embrava requirement out of the picture, but the only important reality for me will that I end up never using SCH again. I'd just cancel until GEO rather than slum it on BLM or WHM every night again.

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This is my concern. All the schs who are talking about nerf embrava, must have forgotten what it was like during the abyssea days when sch was straight up useless. At 75 we didn't even have haste. Added to the fact that SE gives us things like libra, enmity spells that are "too powerful" to stack with our -enm strats, and 1 tic regain that can't even stack with monarchs, I'm extremely skeptical of sch being invited if they don't get something unique and useful. I would rather be only invited because of Tabula Rasa, than never invited to play sch at all.

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

if they nerf embrava i saw someone say change the tp spell adloquium that would be nice i still want shcolar to have the spell haste without rdm or whm sub

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Why would they nerf a spell to power-up another spell!?

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Why would they nerf a spell to power-up another spell!?

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.......................balance?

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

.......................balance?

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It wouldn't be balance to remove it from a 1 hour~30 minute JA spell and put it on a "at all times" spell, or at least not SE balance.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

It wouldn't be balance to remove it from a 1 hour~30 minute JA spell and put it on a "at all times" spell, or at least not SE balance.

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Actually the spell adloquium is really bad. It's 1 tp regain, and doesn't stack. Its worthless. I have corsair and I usually only use tp roll during breaks , pops etc, but I am not going to let anything less than 3 tp/tick ride. With the navarch frac +2 it gives an additional 1 tp to every roll as well. I think adloquium should be increased and would not hurt balance.

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

if they nerf embrava i saw someone say change the tp spell adloquium that would be nice i still want shcolar to have the spell haste without rdm or whm sub

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Its current fixed potency of 1tp/tick is the issue. I would like to see them have it scale with enhancing magic to a cap of ~5 or so (depending on how powerful Embrava ends up being).

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Actually the spell adloquium is really bad. It's 1 tp regain, and doesn't stack. Its worthless. I have corsair and I usually only use tp roll during breaks , pops etc, but I am not going to let anything less than 3 tp/tick ride. With the navarch frac +2 it gives an additional 1 tp to every roll as well. I think adloquium should be increased and would not hurt balance.

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my point isn't that the spell isn't weak, it's simply that nerfing a spell that is on 1 hour~30 minutes to add it to a spell available at all time wouldn't make sense when used with the argument "Balance".

Original poster has no ability to be useful on the most useful job in the game (IMO)... Please fix this.

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Originally Posted by Thorbean

Original poster has no ability to be useful on the most useful job in the game (IMO)... Please fix this.

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Please read the entire thread, or let me summarize by 1 overkill 2hr does not equal useful.

Wait... So it's not useful to be able to regen V, phalanx and barspell the entire party, boost their stats and fill a healer role. Then switch and throw out 5-6 powerfull nukes + helix before switching back to light arts for more 700ish hp cures (1350-1400 if needed) +status removal spells. All that at 10% less MP cost than others, while maintaining high MP via sublimation and conserve MP.

I'm not talking about their 2 hour, but if you want to add that into the mix then by all means do so. Outside of abby, embrava is only 15 mins of 2 hours. a skilled SCH gets alot done in those 105 mins.

Inside abby it gets even better, with the ability to tank zone bosses etc. if your tank gets hit with a 1 hit KO move. On numerous occasions I held glavoid for the entire duration of my team mates weakness if a high disgorge got through. Just standing still rotating stoneskin, blink and the occasional re-regen V. Not that it matters in abby as a 4 year old could succeed in there.

I play mostly just in a duo with a THF. Embrava isn't such a massive bonus when you dont have a full party of melee's to make use of it. Sure it's awesome, but if that's all the scholars you play with are doing, then you are playing with bad scholars.

If you really think SCH is useless outside of embrava then you either don't play the job, are terrible at it or the ones you are playing with are terrible.
/thread.

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Originally Posted by Thorbean

Wait... So it's not useful to be able to regen V, phalanx and barspell the entire party, boost their stats and fill a healer role. Then switch and throw out 5-6 powerfull nukes + helix before switching back to light arts for more 700ish hp cures (1350-1400 if needed) +status removal spells. All that at 10% less MP cost than others, while maintaining high MP via sublimation and conserve MP.

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I don't know what kind of parties you're in, but if someone decided to only cast regen V / phalanx on me and then started nuking. I'd be pretty upset. Sch usually sticks to one role at a time. Constantly switching just depletes stratagems and isn't that helpful. Now I'm not saying sch can't switch roles in emergencies, but you should never plan to be constantly switching. The 10% reduction isn't going to make sch stand out either because many whms and blms also sub sch, and mp is hardly a issue in today's ffxi.

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I'm not talking about their 2 hour, but if you want to add that into the mix then by all means do so. Outside of abby, embrava is only 15 mins of 2 hours. a skilled SCH gets alot done in those 105 mins.

Inside abby it gets even better, with the ability to tank zone bosses etc. if your tank gets hit with a 1 hit KO move. On numerous occasions I held glavoid for the entire duration of my team mates weakness if a high disgorge got through. Just standing still rotating stoneskin, blink and the occasional re-regen V. Not that it matters in abby as a 4 year old could succeed in there.

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Whm can do this better by spamming extremely powerful cures with 350+ instant stoneskins.

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I play mostly just in a duo with a THF. Embrava isn't such a massive bonus when you dont have a full party of melee's to make use of it. Sure it's awesome, but if that's all the scholars you play with are doing, then you are playing with bad scholars.

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Embrava is still extremely useful lowman, fulltime embrava in abyssea speeds up practically everything, and even outside abyssea in events like dynamis when working on trials.

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If you really think SCH is useless outside of embrava then you either don't play the job, are terrible at it or the ones you are playing with are terrible.
/thread.

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Sch's main role is embrava with other emphasis being on stun spam. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I apologize, I figured you were among the hordes of others who think it is all about Embrava. In this case however, you recognize everything that SCH is good at, however, you also mentioned everything (sans Regen) that a WHM or a BLM can also do even better.

I completely agree that SCH is not useless by any means and in that respect the OP is wrong. However, we are only good at what other jobs already have and excell at. Our unique abilities to include Modus Veritas, Libra, merited stratagems and our MP stratagems, Animus Augeo/Minuo, Klimaform (on anyone without empy +2 boots), and Adloquium are all hardly usefull.

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Originally Posted by Dantedmc

I don't know what kind of parties you're in, but if someone decided to only cast regen V / phalanx on me and then started nuking. I'd be pretty upset. Sch usually sticks to one role at a time. Constantly switching just depletes stratagems and isn't that helpful. Now I'm not saying sch can't switch roles in emergencies, but you should never plan to be constantly switching. The 10% reduction isn't going to make sch stand out either because many whms and blms also sub sch, and mp is hardly a issue in today's ffxi.

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I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.

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Whm can do this better by spamming extremely powerful cures with 350+ instant stoneskins.

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Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.

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Embrava is still extremely useful lowman, fulltime embrava in abyssea speeds up practically everything, and even outside abyssea in events like dynamis when working on trials.

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Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.

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Sch's main role is embrava with other emphasis being on stun spam. This is a fact, not an opinion.

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It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed :). I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm :() + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thorbean

I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.



Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.



Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.



It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed :). I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm :() + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

---

How are you getting 45 when I think the cap is 35 at 500 skill.

35 yeh my bad, I really should read over that i write before I post :D.
While we on the subject of phalanx my math has always said 34. Is phalanx calc not floored?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thorbean

I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.



Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.



Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.



It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed :). I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm :() + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

---

You should give legion a try.

All in good time, however, I hear its generally done in big alliances and I don't really enjoy that style of play. It's hard enough getting a competent group together for nyzul and I've only been playing for 9 months. Would you only have 1 Scholar main healing for something like that though? I would think perpetuating Aurorastorm onto the WHM's would be a nice bonus in itself for that kinda thing no?

Is a job classed as useless if it's not outstanding in every area or am I missing something?

typically you embrava and stun

(yeah i don't like it either, but that's what this thread is about)