Whats your favorite subjob for RDM? What is your least favorite?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You're still weighing out opportunity cost. If you're not going to be melee'ing the whole time, then you lose out on a ton of magic-specific buffs when you're in the backline by being on Ninja sub. Even then, if someone were to only run in and do 3 CDCs in a fight for 2k each, I could easily outdamage them overall by just staying in the backline on RDM/SCH and tossing out nukes while supporting the party.

People like to throw out Rdm's nuking potential pretty quickly, and you're most definitely not hitting that potential on /Nin with swords equipped. Likewise, if you are using swords, ditching your TP even only decently often is a huge hit to your damage. Just ask any Thief that gets conned into swapping in Thief's Knife and they'll tell you the same thing.

I've never advocated against melee on weak targets. In fact, it's significantly more efficient than nuking on weak enemies, and always will be. But if you're in a situation that warrants backing out or switching weapons, you will contribute far more damage by just being on the backlines and fully utilizing your magic.

Inb4: "Saevel>> You don't have any magic. Just Dia 3 and Cures. How pedantic."

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As soon as I retreat back to the back line, I switch out my swords. I have 2 Magian MAB swords at +3 and a Dark sword that I'm in the middle of. I know most people that play RDM don't have 6+ Magian Swords at +2 or +3, but I do. I love that damn things and it is what I do when I get bored of group play. I would have liked to be on the daggers, but I guess they really didn't want us using daggers after all unless we acquire really good ones.

When you retreat, you should continue to add direct damage in the form of nukes if you don't have anything better to do with your MP, aka curing. But if you don't have a decent MAB set that you macro, then yeah you are going to look like a bad RDM. A good Nuking set can make your Tier IVs do the equivalent of TP moves. But the thing is, melee is still better DPS than nukes. So if you spend half the fight up front conserving your MP by meleeing, when you step back or start to nuke, you will have more MP to play with.

Also, when you are at the point where TP moves gets worse because mobs generally get better TP moves below 50% or 25%, then you really do need to re-evaluate where you should be in a fight. I nuke every fight. I don't melee every fight. RDM is still a mage, if anyone missed that, then they completely missed the point IMHO. Nukes are great if you have a good MAB set, but until then your are going to feel like they are trash. Melee is good if you have a good Haste/WS set and you get access to decent WSs. Between the two, MAB is generally easier to work on to get to a good place where as melee is unpleasant and most of the best items you can get are difficult to acquire. I don't think you are playing RDM is you aren't using both sides because SCH and BLM are both much stronger for Magical Damage and utility. Until Enfeebling gets put back to where it is supposed to be I don't think a RDM can contribute enough from just nuking to outweigh the benefits of coming as any other mage.

Notice how he hasn't actually listed what he would be casting or doing with all that MP and time. Casting debuffs before they wear has no effect. So really ... it's ... Cure and ... Cure and ... Nuke. Hence the very same people who scream against "lolmeleeRDM" are the ones demanding and threatening to slash their wrists if SE doesn't give them Cure V.

Enfeebles have ALWAYS been a joke. Do not kid yourselves or try to see the past with rose tinted glass's. Since 2003 RDM has been used as a mini healer. SE patched it to add "enfeebles" to the job due to JP player dissatisfaction. I've already listed the "enfeebles" available to the job and all but one are either useless or mediocre. The few ones that are actually useful are defensive enfeebles in a game where offense rules, killing it faster results in less total damage taken then killing it slower. I've shown how Slow suffers from exponentially worse returns, how Blind II won't lower their rate to below the monster acc cap (80%). Para II is actually really good, but only on weak NM's that we would destroy anyway. On anything hard its just resisted or the target has direct potency reduction. Silence / Bind / Gravity / Sleep / Break are all useless now on NMs. Poison II is less damage then a single nuke. Addle is good in theory, but the scaling is so poor that it won't make a difference on NMs. The reason Dia is so good is that 1, the defense down effect is unresistable and always takes effect, 2 defense down effects scale exponentially like haste does, and 3 this game favors offensive buffs / debuffs and effects over defense ones. You only need to reduce damage to the point where your healers can maintain your HP, any further reduction (at the trade off of offensive power) only suffers to extend the fight needlessly. This isn't a good / bad RDM BS argument, SE has never made enfeebling a priority nor a functional area of specialization. To think otherwise is just delusional. Now if SE chooses they can fix this, adding several more debuffs similar to Dia in that that directly reduce a stat, scale well and don't get resisted to uselessness. Anything else faces the problem of being weak to the point of futility (Addle) or having the sh!t nerfed out of it to prevent it from being used where it would really help (Bind/Gravity/Break/Silence/Sleep).

It's also funny how the posters assume that a RDM/NIN with swords is somehow afflicted by the hidden status ailment "WoW", where their unable to change our their gear during a fight. Heck SE even created a sword for us specifically for healing without needing to switch weapons. And I'm deeply laughing at the idea of a RDM being forced to use the magian cure staff ... that the job has 0 skill on ... and only Cure IV. Seriously we all know that you just go as WHM, in all likely hood your RDM hasn't seen the light of day since halfway through abyssea. Seriously ... "ignore 33% of your job because you absolutely positively need this 13% cure potency on Cure IV", pretty much proves that you guys just want RDM = WHM-1.

Anyhow, this is all moot. SE stated long ago they wanted RDM on the front lines, they created a JA and spells specifically for that purpose. They then went so far as to create a high damage sword that was a light staff. Talk about an obvious hint. The job belongs on the front lines, not because players think so but because the developers have made it so. They don't want RDM to be exclusively on the front lines, the job is designed to be in either place depending on the situation and strategy being used.

Ohh and let me correct something right now, out of all the jobs in this game, RDM is the 2nd hardest to kill (first being PLD). Between our native MDB, buffs and gear, we'll survive when most other DD's would of been killed. This is undeniable as so many youtube video's clearly demonstrate. Thus any situation where a RDM would be forced to the sideline due to aoe's, every other melee would also be forced to those same sidelines. The difference is we have the option to switch into mage gear and contribute vs sitting there with out GAXE shoved where the sun don't shine.

Nuking depends on the monster, CDC spam will beat nuking no contest unless the target is physically resistant yet magically weak. Some fights you just don't want to be within melee range due to the nature of the fight, in that case nuking is a great alternative. Currently there is only one area where a RDM would be forced to the sidelines, and that's some of the high tier VWNMs. Then your really just helping the BLM's hit as many magic procs as possible and possibly running in to melee during the blitz for bonus light values. I melee on the eyeball, I go full support on the grasshopper. I melee full tilt during burns (that picture I posted earlier), I stand back and try to proc lights and move in to melee during the blitz when we're actually farming something for drops. This is what I mean by a RDM doing all three functions of their job (WHM/BLM/WAR). You must pick and chose which ones to use where and when. There is no concrete rule, no easy one sentence quip. No amount of guides can replace the sheer amount of experienced required to play the job well, spamming Cure IV and haste does not make a good RDM. Knowing when to employ which skills and being able to anticipate the AI and monsters weakness's / strengths and how to exploit and counter those, that is what makes a good RDM. A bad RDM will sit back and play only one facet of their job (WHM or BLM or WAR), a good RDM will be able to shift between all three as their judgement dictates.

But please, continue the hating, generalizing, straw man and false dichotomy arguments.

Is there something wrong with curing?

Between Hastes, Cures, Refreshes, Dia 3, Addle/Para2/Slow2 where applicable, Nukes, Phalanx 2 (if applicable), Accession buffs, and proc'ing, there's plenty to do.

You're right, though. My Red Mage hasn't seen the light of day since Scars of Abyssea, and I'm not ecstatic about it. But you know what would change about that if they upgraded Red Mage's melee prowess? Absolutely nothing. Not because I refuse to melee, or am somehow incapable of melee'ing on Red Mage. I have access to better gear than the vast majority of posters here, but that doesn't make the job remotely desirable.

Hell, if it came down to it, it's not like I'm not allowed to bring it either. I lead my linkshell. I can bring whatever the hell I want. However, I'd be setting a gross example for my members if I wasted a party slot on a job with absolutely minimal functional value just because I felt like it while asking them to come on useful jobs. My members all know that I'd never ask them to do something that I wouldn't do myself, and I'm always the first one to change jobs if I'd suit the group better on something else.

See funny thing is I can agree with both of you. If you are going to something high tier like the harder VWs, then you probably shouldn't bring a RDM unless you have a very specific role you want for them to play that wouldn't be eclipsed by WHM or BLM/WHM.

On the other hand Savael and I have the same mentality on how to play RDM, though we partially disagree on enfeebles. His synopsis on the overall effectiveness of Enfeebles is pretty close to spot on. I have been debuffed mobs since I started on PC release and it has always made some difference, but that doesn't mean that it makes enough of a difference 10 years later. I do want them to think very carefully on what they can do to make that portion of RDM acceptable again, but if that is all they change then we will still be 2nd class.

RDM is the 2nd toughest job in the game when you actually take hits. Evasion is not our strong point. It never will be, but if you are engaging enemies where you will be hit regardless of evasion, the only job I would rather be on is PLD. And as far as taking magic damage, RDM is probably the strongest, if not one of the strongest. I usually run around in 50% PDT. You can do more damage with other setups, but that isn't always the point and I like being alive.

As far as a specialized roll that RDM can bring to a party, RDM/DRK.

Everyone will doubt the credibility of what I say next, but I honestly don't care. I know it works, I don't care if you believe me. When you combine Addle with Stun and Absorb TP, you can make a significant difference in the amount of damage your front line takes. Absorb-TP lands on almost anything that you have the Dark Magic Skill and M.Acc to hit. Disclaimer: you have to have good gear for this to work. Addle makes it so you don't have to be watching the mob like a hawk to make sure you can stun GAs and other high tier magics. By the end of most fights that I won't engage in melee on, I have generated well over 300% TP and stopped most of their unpleasant magic. Even if the NM can TP without TP, they still won't be hitting for as hard with less TP.

You can throw the other absorb spells if you want to drop the NMs stats by 20 per spell. Outside of aby, it is a good way to boost potency on Enfeebles. Absorb Spells increase the difference between your stats and the mobs by 40, +20 for you and -20 for them. You can buff your nuking by taking their INT and CHR. It's also a decent way for you to make up some of the WS damage you lose by giving up dual wield. In the case of Elemental WSs, like Sanguine Blade, you actually do more WS damage by /DRK than by any other sub job combination outside of aby.

Do I think that other people will play the way I do? NO. I honestly don't. But /DRK is my favorite sub for RDM because it follows RDMs ability to make themselves stronger while making mobs weaker. RDMs capped recast benefits Dark Magic's lengthy recast times. You get actual spells, job traits, and job abilities that you can use. Last Resort, Attack Bonus, EX Weapon Skills, Stun, Absorbs, Occult Acumen (10% TP for casting Thunder IV with an Oneiros Belt and some Store TP) and Souleater to a lesser extent. It's a subjob that actually benefits you and brings something to RDM that it usually doesn't offer.

Does RDM/DRK out-damage RDM/NIN? Nope. Does it offer utility while still being playable? Yup.

There is so much wrong on this page, I don't even know where to start.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of what you guys are talking about and just mention that /SCH is my favorite subjob. If only the people developing this game weren't all lazy about adjusting spells that SCH main can't use (the only buffs that can be Accession'd are ones that /SCH can sub...hmmm) like Temper and Gains.

And yes, I seriously suspect laziness is behind it. Maybe they need to adjust something about the coding of these spells, I don't know. But it's laziness.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

There is so much wrong on this page, I don't even know where to start.

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Oh Cid, it's like I already disclaimed that people wouldn't try /DRK and you still think that I'm worried that you think it's wrong. If you don't want to try it, don't. It's not technically better than /NIN anyways, just different. And just like every other RDM combination, it still isn't the equivalent in strength to any other job in the game.

Manaking,

I actually agree that RDM/DRK is awesome. Most people probably won't remember but I once had a whole spiel on it. We make the best stunners due to the sheer amount of FC and haste we can get. Abs-TP allows you to build TP while your on the sidelines focusing on stunning, and when the times right you can LR SE CDC (or Vorpal) to your hearts content. For a very long time it was my staple sub, until the recent round of VWNMs. SE has caught onto our game of stun cycling the most annoying / cheap TP moves and they've since adjusted. Eyeball tends to put magic shield up before it starts breakga / death spam. Kaggan has a VERY annoying aspect where if his hands are up, your gonna get resisted. Unfortunately the lag between the client and server makes it so even if his hands are down on your computer, on the server he may still have his uber resist up. But on the older city Tier III/IV's /DRK was my staple sub. This goes back to what I was saying, a good RDM knows when to bring which tools and abilities for each fight. You have to analyze the fight the first time through to figure out which moves you can stun, which ones need stunned, which enfeebles land or it's immune / resistant too, and whether you'll be able to melee or not.

I never said enfeebles were completely useless or ineffective, only that they were never very strong to begin with. Long time a certain taru RDM went around making youtube video's showing him exploiting SE's original oversight to kill a NM by himself. Then others started in, then SE said "ohh hells no!" and thus NM's built resist to gravity really fast. Then we learned how to adjust and SE just said "screw it" and all NM's made afterward are immune to grav/bind/break/ect.

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If you are going to something high tier like the harder VWs, then you probably shouldn't bring a RDM unless you have a very specific role you want for them to play that wouldn't be eclipsed by WHM or BLM/WHM.

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This is what I deeply disagree with. This line of reasoning ultimately leads to "RDM = WHM-1, so bring a WHM instead". Because how you can define "harder"? If someone wanted to, they could use that to define away RDM's melee side. "RDM melee is for solo, anything else is too dangerous" was the old excuse. On VWNM's we're actually quite useful, yes I can hear all the naysayers screaming with blood in their eyes. Procing + damage + buff / debuff + cure support all rolled up into a single package. Granted the RDM has to be good, otherwise they'll just end up focusing too much on one aspect or the other and not multitasking. If the fights not one of the super cheap NM's then you'll contribute more total damage then anyone, especially if there's BLU's in the alliance. If it's a super cheap NM, then chances are everyone who's not a tank is on the sidelines waiting to be called for procs during most of the fight. At the end everyone will just pop temps and fanatics / fools and try to kill it while procing easy HV's, in which case there is zero reason for you not to join in. I've already shown that a RDM can contribute damn good damage, to anger of the detractors. We've already proven that a RDM can survive better then anything short of a PLD (anything dangerous will have a 140% hit rate that's capped at 80, not even THF's can evade them). So taken on its own, the WAR side of RDM is a durable fighter that can contribute moderate to semi-high amounts of damage.

I'm rereading the earlier parts of this thread and I think you two just like starting fights about RDM melee. Until...

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

You demons with you staves. Can't a guy enjoy his swords in peace? JK play however makes you feel happy. RDM isnt being taken seriously yet anyways.

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...there wasn't a single mention about melee on RDM. Just talk about what does and doesn't count as an advantage of a subjob. For example:

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Ninja
Stealth, Dual Wield III, Subtle Blow III. Tonko, Monomi, Dokumori: Ichi, Jubaku: Ichi, Kurayami: Ni, Hojo: Ichi (and soon Hojo: Ni), Ninja Wheel, Utsusemi.

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Stealth doesn't count and everybody knows it.

/WAR is my favorite sub job, because I'm a cleaving junkie. I cleave for lulz. It's awesome. Fencer helps with that, so does defender. I mean, I cleave outside abyssea just because I can. It's also a fun sub to just play around with, because I use RDM for having fun. It's great for meleeing thanks to Access to Sanguine Blade, aswell as Fencer for increased healing from SB.

/SCH is probably my least favorite sub. It's very useful, but the fact that I can't cancel Arts when I don't need them (Light Arts Blind II says hi :/) makes it feel cumbersome to me.

Wait... What?

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Wait... What?

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I know what the problem is!

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/SCH is probably my least favorite sub. It's very useful, but the fact that I can't cancel Arts when I don't need them (Light Arts Blind II says hi :/) makes it feel cumbersome to me.

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Personally, /SCH is awesome, its our best mage SJ. It provides a pretty good set of tools for us to utilize. On the LA / DA thing, you have to learn to anticipate which mode your going to be in and create your macro pallets around the modes themselves. Also don't be worried to cast minor spells in the wrong arts, nothing wrong with casting Dispel / Blind / Poison in LA mode. Nukes and Cures are a bit different due to their large MP costs, but sometimes you need to Cure IV someone and you need to do it RFN. My only issue is that SE is such a d!ck and won't let us Accession Haste, Temper, Gain-spells or Enspell II's.

The only reason we can't Accession Enspell 2s is because of how foolishly they were constructed. Their damage is updated by your current Enhancing skill. If you gave another Job your enspell 2s with no enhancing magic skill to go with it, they would hit for significantly less than your enspell 1s.

My suggestion is fix Enspell 2s to calculate start damage on cast and make it so that it can be used with Accession.

My actual suggestion is make Enspell 2s calculate off of start damage and apply damage on every main hand hit. Change the elemental Debuff to the element of the enspell, so that it helps your Enspell damage and makes it plain for everyone else what element you are debuffing.

RDM would need significantly less work, if everything on RDM worked well.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

The only reason we can't Accession Enspell 2s is because of how foolishly they were constructed. Their damage is updated by your current Enhancing skill. If you gave another Job your enspell 2s with no enhancing magic skill to go with it, they would hit for significantly less than your enspell 1s.

My suggestion is fix Enspell 2s to calculate start damage on cast and make it so that it can be used with Accession.

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The only reason we can't accession it is because SCH doesn't get it naturally or /subjob

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Swords are like opinions.

Great fun to toy around with by yourself or with a close friend or two.

Horribly inappropriate to whip out in a room full of people, no matter how "good" it is.

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Spoken like a true ignoramus

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Plenty of people can justify Staff only, because that is how they want to play. I personally don't touch the things and I never really have. I'd rather build a Macc Dark Sword or keep working on my Murgleis. There is some validity to the potency of staffs for those that want to increase their nuking damage, but it will completely nullify your ability to WS or melee at all.

SE didn't say people couldn't be Pink Mages, they just said that a WHM will blatantly outclass them, because that is their job and they are well equipped to do so. The bigger issue is that RDMs don't have a well defined role because SE made Enfeebling a joke.

My honest opinion on the matter is that any RDM, regardless of play style, should be up in arms about the current state of enfeebling and they should be up in arms together. It doesn't matter what your play style for RDM is currently, you should have figured out by now that you can't make a RDM good anymore because they broke our most important function: Enfeebling.

I don't care if you use a sword or a staff, you aren't as good as any other job in the game because neither of those are going to make up for the fact that we aren't better nukers, healers, or melee'ers than any job that actually specializes in those things. If you hadn't noticed, you can only do 1 think at a time. So after you are done checking how immune the mob is to your enfeebles, you can attempt to validify your existence in a serious party by half ass-ing any one of those 3 things. Since you don't have the job abilities, job traits, equipment, or spell library to compete with other jobs, you are going to come up short.

Stop fighting about your differences and start getting offended that your common ground is barren. There is no actual reason that RDM should be in the state that it is in. It's still a good job and a fun job, but it's not a particularly well equipped to be taken seriously in the current game. Who cares how hard you Nuke or WS? That is secondary stuff. Crippling your adversaries and defending your allies should be your first concern. How you achieve that is up to you.

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Well put and mostly agree with one exception. The fact is RDM was NEVER intended to be the best at anything except enfeebles which is as you stated lousy. With that said being taken seriously for anything other than enfeebling is delusional. It is SUPPOSED to be a SUPPORT job nothing more. Hopefully people arent going out and actually thinking they are supposed be able to deal equal or better damage than those of specialists. Sure it is nice to throw out an additional nuke or assist with healing especially after an AoE move in a party but essentially you are there to support not outshine anybody else. I feel it could be taken seriously if it is looked upon as a SUPPORT job but unfortunately it isnt called upon in that light.

I am ticked of about the state of our enfeebling with mobs level 85+ they either dont last long or even stick in the first place and even when it does it seem to rarely proc worth anything. I am awaiting to see what all the final changes will be for this last update but if it is more of the same bs I think I'm done with this game. RDM is my favorite job and DNC is my favorite sub. Occasionally I will sub /DRK mainly for the attack bonus traits and /PLD and the defense bonus traits. I dont usually nuke because the mp/damage ratio kind of sucks to me and I rather save that mp for curing unless the mob has insanely high defenses like a Paladin or Elemental or something. Then again I pretty much only solo on this game unless a mob/mission/quest is really a pain or I'm just tired of it and want it done already.

My least favorite sub I suppose would be /whm because I really hate healing other people because I feel most people should be /dnc, /whm, or /rdm with refresh already if there is no main WHM in the party already. Yeah yeah yeah I know I know no need to repeat the same or crap I know you will type to this opinion as I heard it all before but that is still how I feel nonetheless so save your breath on trying to convince me otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I'm sorry I was just listing a vanilla post about all the possibilities rather then what they mean, but I wasn't trying to say how everything was useful. I'm not about to get into a pointless arguement about which is the most useful sub, but to point out some things you missed on two of the jobs - I'm sure I could (but I won't) point out stuff on the other jobs that was missed - if it actually mattered.



Counter and Abyssea. Maybe there are more viable solo choices, but this is a working combo.



Ninjutsu enfeebles are amazingly useful. The resist from low skill only affects damage but even that is mitigated by magic accuracy and magic attack bonus gear.

Not every sub is going to be useful, but considering how many are, it shows how rounded out Red Mage can be.

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In addition there are magic evasion and defense down magian weapon trials available as well to assist with landing stuff now as well, I doubt he even bothered to look however. Or he has and will try to counter with "the additional effects are irrelevant because they dont proc enough" or some other bs.

Stop triple posting.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Stop triple posting.

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Stop using linear display mode and switch to Hybrid view then it won't seem like triple posting.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

Stop using linear display mode and switch to Hybrid view then it won't seem like triple posting.

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You're the only one using a non-standard display option and you're breaching standard forum etiquette. Stop being an ass and triple posting all over the place. It's rude.

LOL at etiquette and you calling me an ass in the same post. I dont know where you from but it is never good "etiquette" to talk to people like that no matter how they act. I dont mind being the only one to use a non standard display as SE gave us options something many in other countries still dont have. In case you havent noticed already I dont do anything just because "everybody else does" I do what works for me, however.....

This view gives me the advantage of seeing the entire thread and get a clear flow of the conversation, who is talking to who, what posts sparked this line of responses, etc. Linear to me is for horses with blinders on which pretty accurately reflects some of the closed-mindedness I've seen on the forums. I'm more of the whole picture, results oriented type of guy Since I'm not on the forums posting in every possible thread, every possible day I can ,this view gives the best ability to play catch up on the conversation so I will not change it and as a result multipost will probably continue but it is usually only the initial posts to a thread anyway so stop overreacting and whining already. Take some anger management classes or some zoloft or whatever to calm your nerves... something sheesh.

I'm just calling a spade a spade. Double-posting is universally frowned upon in every forum I have ever visited. Why should we have to change to your bizarro display when you're the one making a mess of the forums?

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut;235373[B

]I'm just calling a spade a spade.[/B] Double-posting is universally frowned upon in every forum I have ever visited. Why should we have to change to your bizarro display when you're the one making a mess of the forums?

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Look I'll say this and I'll leave it and you alone so as to not veer the thread off topic.


Simply put I am not here to cause any trouble whatsoever and that is the god honest truth. I don’t care if you or anybody here believes me because I don’t need your or anybody else approval to validate my ideas or suggestions as good because I know they are good. Nothing I'm doing is that awful or problematic and isn’t hurting or putting anybody down unless I am provoked.


You made it clear that you have a problem with the multi-post. FINE. This problem only occurs to those in linear format mode which yes probably is 99.5 percent of what people use which again is fine by me. I only made a suggestion for you to take or leave to resolve your complaint. If it bothers you to the point you have to get upset and name call like a 5 year old in elementary school, then that was the suggestion to you and all who it bothers.
Hybrid view works for me and that is all that really matters. The option is available to all and I chose to use it and short of them removing it, I will continue to use it. So you only have one or two options, follow my suggestion or learn to keep your emotions in check and find a way to deal with it so it doesn’t bother you anymore. You can’t change people that don’t feel they need to change you can only change how you react to them.

In all to you and all of you like you, GROW UP the world doesn't revolve around you and only you. I'm growing tired of man- woman-child like you acting the way you do and yet I get banned for defending myself because you people can’t control your emotions or thin-skinned wear your heart on your sleeves.


I am here like anybody else to voice my point of view on the issue at hand. You either AGREE or DISAGREE, RESPOND with WHY you agree or disagree, or completely ignore the post altogether it REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!! I am in no way trying to convince anybody of anything just let people know that are different ways of doing things since most people seem to only acknowledge one or two ways and may give the false impression that those are the only ways and if they don’t do it that way aren’t adequate or capable when that isn’t the case. There is no need for the childish insults that the mods continuously ignore that causes most of those so called "inflammatory" responses back and eventually get the thread locked as a result.
I was always told by my English teachers that when people have to resort to person insults and attacks it is because they realize that the argument they are making no longer has a leg to stand on and they feel they are losing the argument or threatend. I see that is definitely the case more and more on these forums.


Oh and you not calling a spade a spade at all just trying to justify your ignorant behavior.

So tired of you POBEs (Perpetually Offended By Everything) starting trouble where there isnt any.

Double posting is in poor taste.

You triple posted.

Why are you so surprised about being called out? Get your act together or grow a tougher skin.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Double posting is in poor taste.

You triple posted.

Why are you so surprised about being called out? Get your act together or grow a tougher skin.

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I dont care if it quintuple posted the fact is that right now there is only you and I on the forum posting or have you failed to notice that? When I posted those messages they were at least 15 - 30 mins apart when nobody was else was on to make a post. Even if I made the post one hour apart you still be crying. The fact is if a thread isnt actively posted to double and triple posting is more likely to happen, its basic logic. So what I'm supposed to post one response then wait 24 hours to post again serioiusly? Oh I get it I'm supposed to post one response to one message then wait like a week for somebody to respond back to me when the thread probably hasnt been posted to in like 2 weeks then post again? See how ridciulous you sound? I posted my responses to what I felt was important enough for me to respond back to and if nobody else was on the forum to post a response to something else in that time frame then 9/10 time it will be a multi post. It not like this game has millions of forum users on at one time all the time that double and triple postings don't occur. On top of that you totally exaggerate the issue. Forum etiquette or not I am on no more than maybe 3x a week and everytime I come on there somebody whining about something that is as far as i'm concerned is harmless, that i am supposedly "doing" to them or some other thing.

Simply put I am posting and nobody else was on to post anything else between the time I made those posts and that isnt my fault it just happens there is a lull on the forum sometimes and that is when these things happen the most so get over it.

My question to you is why are you suprised at a double and triple post being made when it is clear nobody is on and havent been on in a while posting to this thread. I made 3 posts more than 20 mins apart big freaking deal. I"m on when nobody in america is but us in the EST zone where I live. Most people are still stuck in traffic on the way to work when I made those posts. I have downtime because I am quick and effective at my job so forgive me if want to make the most of whatever downtime I have before it get busy again and maybe a little active because late at night when most people are just getting off work I have been home for about an hour assuming I am not working late to meet a deadline. Or better yet I am not on these forums when most of you are posting because I'm either in game, playing another game, out for drinks, or sleep already getting ready for work the next morning and dont have time to be on the forum.

I dont care about calling me out because it falling on deaf ears. You calling me out on something I dont feel I'm doing anything wrong is a useless call out anyway. The fact that you feel you need to "call me" out in a online forum speaks volumes about your personality and how much time you spend here and not out living life and just how egocentric you are I mean that is what the mods are for and you not one so bug off.

Honestly, the "triple" post was not in bad taste as each post addressed different topics, thus it allowed for better organization and keeps the reader from being lost in a wall of text, which is considerate, not rude.

As for the original topic...
For support, once you go /sch, you never go back. But really, /whm is useless now (for what I do with rdm) other than trigs and viruna/stona. I find /blm is useful sometimes, but only offers stun compared with /sch. So for RDM magic action, I prefer /sch. For any form of melee where shadows don't matter, I use /rng because Sidewinder will always out-damage any sword ws I have access to, and really doesn't miss all that much. For anything where self damage mitigation is needed, /nin.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs27/f/20...y_Digicaek.png

I wouldn't even care about triple posting if he just quoted the people he was responding to for the other 99.99% of the forums who uses the internet-standard view. It's the very definition of inconsiderate.

Be fair, he actually did quote them today. That's some progress, right?

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Originally Posted by Froggis

Honestly, the "triple" post was not in bad taste as each post addressed different topics, thus it allowed for better organization and keeps the reader from being lost in a wall of text, which is considerate, not rude.

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People dismissing the post if it was one post for being a "wall of text" when it would have been clearly organized would have been more rude and in poor taste then it being a triple post.

Actually, if anything was rude about his posts (although I do wish he put it in one post, but meh) it was that he quoted the entire message of people rather then only quoting relevant parts. That bugs me a lot more then double posting because at least with double posting there are occasional reasons for it (not saying there was in this case however).

To be honest, I'm not really that bugged by it, but if someone feels the need to talk about formatting etiquette, there it all is.

You know what bugs me? All the back seat modding. CapriciousOne's posting style is nobody's business but his own. If it's that much of a problem report it and let a mod sort it out. Don't speak of forum etiquette and how rude someone is being in the same breath that you're berating them over such a trivial matter.

This board needs a PM function.

The modding team doesn't bug people over formatting.

And if someone's formatting is illegible or they make the page look like ass (not commenting on the person who got called out earlier here), sometimes people should speak up, in a calm, polite manner. I cannot count the number of times where someone politely asking someone to include paragraph breaks and such has saved a post.

Only you can prevent bad post formatting.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I wouldn't even care about triple posting if he just quoted the people he was responding to for the other 99.99% of the forums who uses the internet-standard view. It's the very definition of inconsiderate.

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Yet even in this statement you fail to do just the very thing you complain about but ok.

In any case every forum is different in what their standards are and personally I am past the point of caring what makes anybody but me happy at this point in my life anyway. Some people there is just no pleasing no matter how hard you try so why bother.

For instance if I quote somebody and bold sections or do any time of formatting to their quoted post they cry about that crap. If i only quote the sections of thier original post that i'm responding to some people cry about that by asking "why you delete most of my post?" If I quote the entire post, then include my responses in a new paragraph directly after the section i'm responding to inside of the quoted response that is a problem but I cant do that on SE forums because it say I didnt type anything and won't post.

Personally I just gave up and give the finger to everybody and just do what I do whether anybody like it or not until the mod permanently ban me. Anybody who isnt the mod can just kiss it. I mean short of threats of violence, verbal abuse, racial slurs, etc people really need to get over themselves.

To keep on mark with the thread, I generally dont like any subjob that is mage with my red mage. In my eyes I dont view it as a mage job like WHM/BLM/SCH. True mage jobs in any game you play generally refuse to use bladed weapons of any sort be it a dagger, sword, and you can forget about 2 handed blades like great swords and greataxes etc. In addition most mage jobs in most games arent even able to wear anything but lousy cloth armors that give no real physical protection worth anything.

I suppose if they had given rdm the supposedly "jack of all trades" access to Dual wield say around level 60 or so I might be more willing to do those jobs but rdm get pigeonholed so much to backline play that I just refuse to do that bs at this point in my RDM career. I refuse to be a nurse or waste mp nuking for the crap damage we do compared to a blm or sch. At this point I rather keep my dual wielding and alternative healing with waltzes and sambas that dancer provides then be bothered with whm/sch/blm. I am still undecided on rdm/blu however. Other than /dnc I personally like /pld for the defense bonus traits to reduce damage taken a little further or /drk for the attack bonus to increase damage output a little more but I'm still playing around with alot of subs just to see what I personally like.

Just remember, defense does almost nothing for your damage taken, and if you get enough of it then it does do absolutely nothing. Monsters with a higher level then you have a ratio floor of 1.0, yeah SE cheats. Things like -PDT and -MDT will have a much more significant effect on your survivability then things like defender / cocoon / Defense Bonus traits. Twilight Torque has become my staple TP piece during anything with aoe's and "die now" moves. Also look into Umbra cape and other -PDT pieces, just try not to lower your haste too much in doing so.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Just remember, defense does almost nothing for your damage taken, and if you get enough of it then it does do absolutely nothing. Monsters with a higher level then you have a ratio floor of 1.0, yeah SE cheats. Things like -PDT and -MDT will have a much more significant effect on your survivability then things like defender / cocoon / Defense Bonus traits. Twilight Torque has become my staple TP piece during anything with aoe's and "die now" moves. Also look into Umbra cape and other -PDT pieces, just try not to lower your haste too much in doing so.

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I value PDT over Haste at this point. Luckily, most of our good Haste pieces and PDT pieces aren't on the same slots.

RDMs really shine when we take significantly less physical damage, because we already take less magical damage than most jobs. If you want less breath damage as well you can look into Crimson/Blood Scale Mail and Dark Rings. I doubt we will ever be a main tank candidate anymore, but at least we can take hits respectably. God knows we've been taking them from SE for long enough (See what I did there?).

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You know what bugs me? All the back seat modding. CapriciousOne's posting style is nobody's business but his own.

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Actually, once it's on the internet, it ceases to become only one person's business.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

Stuff about being too hot to hold a stick and wear a dress and be a nurse

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...but healing people with Waltzes and Sambas is perfectly Ok in your eyes and you have no conflicted feelings about that at all. Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I value PDT over Haste at this point. Luckily, most of our good Haste pieces and PDT pieces aren't on the same slots.

RDMs really shine when we take significantly less physical damage, because we already take less magical damage than most jobs. If you want less breath damage as well you can look into Crimson/Blood Scale Mail and Dark Rings. I doubt we will ever be a main tank candidate anymore, but at least we can take hits respectably. God knows we've been taking them from SE for long enough (See what I did there?).

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Ohh no doubt, I was more talking about something like 2% PDT for 4% haste would be a bad swap, but 4~5% PDT for equivalent haste wouldn't be too bad. I'd keep haste hands / feet over darksteel for example.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Ohh no doubt, I was more talking about something like 2% PDT for 4% haste would be a bad swap, but 4~5% PDT for equivalent haste wouldn't be too bad. I'd keep haste hands / feet over darksteel for example.

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Exactly, and you can give up DPS if all you care about is being able to take hits. Nothing wrong with an Earth Sham and Genbu's when all you are doing is going around Diaga-ing everything in Dynamis. So long as you have others that are killing and procing with you, you can hold and process more mobs more quickly.