Idiocy

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Originally Posted by Ank

My cure 4's on sch are like 480ish and my cure gear sucks terribly.

I agree that outside abyssea the amount cured isn't the biggest issue.

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Wow, mine are about 600 HP inside Abyssea (forget outside, I very rarely go as WHM anymore) and I only have 15 items for WHM. No gear swaps at all, just cure potency and MND+. My healing magic skill is way under cap too (level 70~ for a WHM).

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Not really, you just stand there while waiting for the proc(s), then after the proc(s) you zerg it down.

If anything, you are just a placeholder for pop items.

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Yes, exactly. This is what I am saying.

So an ability which allows my uber expensive ladybug (which I am never allowed to melee with anyway except to put TH on) to "rage" and then disappear doesn't sound very useful to me.

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Originally Posted by Olor

I promise -the only invites I've ever gotten to parties doing anything worthwhile as a bst is as ghetto treasure hunter when no THF was to be found. No one invites you on a seal run for damage. No one invites you to a big nm for damage. It is procs, heals, TH or go home.

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While true enough, this doesn't sound like it relates to the new Beast Master job ability so much as FFXI and Abyssea in general.

Would you care to meet the 5,000 other people who play melee jobs and have complained about similar issues?

The solution boils down to "Do things in a circle of friends that doesn't mind one or two folks being on a job just to smack things." Not "Pretend you're surgically grafted to a ladybug." Pick-up groups have always been awful in every conceivable way, and FFXI should not be designed around them.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

While true enough, this doesn't sound like it relates to the new Beast Master job ability so much as FFXI and Abyssea in general.

Would you care to meet the 5,000 other people who play melee jobs and have complained about similar issues?

The solution boils down to "Do things in a circle of friends that doesn't mind one or two folks being on a job just to smack things." Not "Pretend you're surgically grafted to a ladybug." Pick-up groups have always been awful in every conceivable way, and FFXI should not be designed around them.

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Sure, but I don't think it helps for players not to raise these balance issues.

When development time is spent making an ability which at best, I won't use because it is too expensive instead of something which will make the job I like playing worth having along (not just out of pity/friendship) in a serious party - I feel like it is worthwhile to raise concerns.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Wow, mine are about 600 HP inside Abyssea (forget outside, I very rarely go as WHM anymore) and I only have 15 items for WHM. No gear swaps at all, just cure potency and MND+. My healing magic skill is way under cap too (level 70~ for a WHM).

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Yeah but I've only got like a light staff and serpentes, too lazy to check atm. I don't really like curing on sch so been putting off surya's and obi.

700something with rapture which isn't too bad I guess, but doesn't compare to my friends whm I leveled and geared poorly lol.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Yes, exactly. This is what I am saying.

So an ability which allows my uber expensive ladybug (which I am never allowed to melee with anyway except to put TH on) to "rage" and then disappear doesn't sound very useful to me.

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Maybe you don't understand what Zerg means

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Maybe you don't understand what Zerg means

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And what percentage of worthwhile content is done via zerg now? Cause I haven't seen any of it. Or are you suggesting I waste my ladybug to kill that procced NM 1 second faster?

Also, if you think this new JA is going to be so good - do you think it will make someone invite BST over a WAR? Will you be switching to BST because of this AWESOME NEW ABILITY?

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Originally Posted by Olor

Sure, but I don't think it helps for players not to raise these balance issues.

When development time is spent making an ability which at best, I won't use because it is too expensive instead of something which will make the job I like playing worth having along (not just out of pity/friendship) in a serious party - I feel like it is worthwhile to raise concerns.

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What if this new ability were viewed in the context of VoidWatch rather than Abyssea, though? Or some types of older content where Treasure Hunter and procs are both irrelevant? Or just with the assumption a Thief is present?

I don't think you're misjudging what the ability will do, given the scope is narrowed to "What will it do for Olorinus in Abyssea?" It's an ability rather than a trait, so I think it's important to keep in mind that using it is a choice and it doesn't have to be ideal for everything.

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Originally Posted by Olor

And what percentage of worthwhile content is done via zerg now? Cause I haven't seen any of it. Or are you suggesting I waste my ladybug to kill that procced NM 1 second faster?

Also, if you think this new JA is going to be so good - do you think it will make someone invite BST over a WAR? Will you be switching to BST because of this AWESOME NEW ABILITY?

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I don't think this was intended to be a job ability to invite BSTs for. I think this was a job ability to go "oh shi, Call Beast timer isn't up and my pet is about to die, and the NM is almost dead but it will rape me if I try to tank it." Which I'm sure it happens enough times to warrant this job ability. It could also be that this job ability will make soloing much faster, both inside and outside of Abyssea. Yeah, its costly, but since when has BST ever been a cheap job to level?

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I don't think this was intended to be a job ability to invite BSTs for. I think this was a job ability to go "oh shi, Call Beast timer isn't up and my pet is about to die, and the NM is almost dead but it will rape me if I try to tank it." Which I'm sure it happens enough times to warrant this job ability. It could also be that this job ability will make soloing much faster, both inside and outside of Abyssea. Yeah, its costly, but since when has BST ever been a cheap job to level?

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Okay, this is a good post.

I agree it could come in handy like that.

I guess I was just hoping when they said they were going to make BST something people would invite to a group that, you know, they would actually do it. Getting nothing but some more jugs (where is the love for charm) and an "oh shi-" ability is pretty dissapointing - especially seeing blm, which already has no trouble getting invites and is, frankly, kind of overpowered - get a whole swathe of new spells.

It saves you from having to use a 2hr.

Since, you know, 2hrs don't work on your called pets.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

It saves you from having to use a 2hr.

Since, you know, 2hrs don't work on your called pets.

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oh it works... it gives it 10 per cent more HP...

but it doesn't fill that 10 per cent...lol

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Originally Posted by ffxititanplayer

I'm rdm i can't use it but you act like mistakes dont happen, links dont happen, sometimes things happen you cant expect and it would be nice to only have to use one cure spell isntead of 2 or 3 when i could instead cast cure V and then follow up with shadows or a nuke or stoneskin or whatnot. Just my opinion so yea! Cheers!

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If anything like that is happening, you're obviously doing something wrong, then. That's just my opinion though, yeah?

Don't hurt yourself thinking too hard about that.

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Originally Posted by Olor

oh it works... it gives it 10 per cent more HP...

but it doesn't fill that 10 per cent...lol

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I'm surprised it didn't give an additional 100% HP and that pets don't blood aggro. I actually expected that years ago before I knew anything about BST, just given how much lol SE threw at them.

I didn't see anyone qq about whm so I'll do it. yay more useless cure spells, curaga V... curaga IV was not good enough I guess. I wanted banish IV and banishga III too.

@ people complaining about RDM: imo pb with rdm is not cure V. I barely use cure V on WHM outside of abyssea, really its overkill. A monk ( highest HP job) has about 1800HP. for cure V to cure for max he needs to drop below 700 hp. i just use cure IVs ( for 600 ish) and cure V in emergency, never cure VI. I only use curega IV to full cure a pt after a wipe. so yeah rdm is just fine with his 500+ cure 5s imo. What they need to do is bring mobs on which enfeebles are usefull, and don't completly resist. Thats where RDM shine.

QQ about monk not getting anything ( just kidding). We all know mnk still going to rock w/o new JAs because they'll still get + skill that increase DMG, attack and accuracy, and possibly new job traits ( they mentinooned subtle blow kindof aby/traits/merits).

Yes we all know JAs and spells are not everything. New job traits will probably be introduced, and we will all get plenty of new powerful equipments to fill the gaps.

so, just wait and see. wait to actually play the update before QQ rage.

What exactly do you fight that Cure IV is both more MP efficient and enmity efficient than Cure V?

AF1 Mobs? I'm confused. Even Ochain/Aegis PLD's take more damage than that during spells/TP moves.

Meh, I'm sick of people saying RDM and SCH shouldn't get Cure V. Scared for their overpowered WHMs.

I'm a WHM too and I see no problem with Cure V going to these jobs. They still wont outcure a WHM with all the cure potency, cure casting time down, and cureskin that it gets.

RDM and SCH will never replace a WHM completely, but with Cure V we will be a comfortable substitute when the WHM is out of mp or otherwise incapacitated, and this is support in the true sense.

We got Cure IV in the 40s and it's still our highest tier cure. Any job can sub WHM and get this tier, which is sad.

Yeah it won't put out whms if rdm and sch get cure 5, I was saying this earlier, there's too many other reasons to take a whm.

I agree for sure that SCH and RDM should both get some form of a higher cure, whether it's a unique spell or simply Cure V

Personally I like WoW's Druid's method of healing (inb4 DONT MAKE THIS GAME WOW), where it's just a large amount of Healing over Time, but not drawn out like Regen (90 seconds) but more like 1/3 of Cure V's potency over 6 seconds.

This method doesn't help the OSHI situations, but does lighten the load on the WHM, and brings a certain aspect of uniqueness to SCH and RDM's healing capabilities.

*Example: "Restore" Restores HP over a short period of time. Cooldown: 30 seconds (Will end up being around 15 w/ fast cast/light arts pimped) MP cost: 120, Duration: 9 seconds (3 ticks) restores 120(Minimum cap)~320(Maximum cap) HP per tick.

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Meh, I'm sick of people saying RDM and SCH shouldn't get Cure V. Scared for their overpowered WHMs.

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What did you expect? People thought convert from subjob would break the game. It is simply idiocy and fits right in here.

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Originally Posted by DebbieGibson

Yeah it won't put out whms if rdm and sch get cure 5, I was saying this earlier, there's too many other reasons to take a whm.

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The thing that really scares me is that most of the people who argue against this sentiment are White Mages. I can't imagine what they're doing or not doing. While I'm on White Mage, my thoughts could be summarized as, "Hark! I am a God of restoring HP and removing status ailments! Come unto me and be healed, all ye who hit things with things!"

No other job is ever going to add 300+ HP of Stoneskin with Cure V, or have the ability to drop massive cures on more than one person in rapid succession. This isn't even getting into how amazing Esuna can be when the situation is right for it, or the other huge defensive benefits a White Mage provides.

Edit: I want to add that some stuff in this thread is so weird that it just made a dude who exists solely to ask for Summoner buffs to say something not related to Summoner, and for me to agree with him. This thread is bending reality itself through sheer lunacy.

Who knows...SE might bring out a job trait or some gear that'll make Cure IV sexy.

Not to mention they already have a 27% MDT spell, and are getting an additional AoE MDB JA... OH and very potent Bar-spells when they are used correctly.

Say goodbye to the need for MDT gear

Yeah I have no idea what whm's have to be bothered about, they're pretty amazing.

A cure dot spell could be a nice tool but it would have to be at least that strong, regen's just not doing much.

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Originally Posted by Zatias

We got Cure IV in the 40s and it's still our highest tier cure. Any job can sub WHM and get this tier, which is sad.

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Yeah it is pretty mad that my bst/whm has the same tier of cure as a rdm or a sch. Anyone who doesn't see the problem with that is blind.

Regen's not bad, but only because it lasts as long as it does.

I think the maximum duration is 1 minute 45 seconds? and can get up to 39hp/tick?

That's 1396 HP total cured, for a small amount of MP compared to Cure VI.

The real drawback is the stupid casting time, where it should be a quick cast spell, it takes like 3 seconds to cast so your party is dead by the time it's done...

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Wow, mine are about 600 HP inside Abyssea (forget outside, I very rarely go as WHM anymore) and I only have 15 items for WHM. No gear swaps at all, just cure potency and MND+. My healing magic skill is way under cap too (level 70~ for a WHM).

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WHM can cap cure potecny, SCH can't.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

@ people complaining about RDM: imo pb with rdm is not cure V. I barely use cure V on WHM outside of abyssea, really its overkill. A monk ( highest HP job) has about 1800HP. for cure V to cure for max he needs to drop below 700 hp. i just use cure IVs ( for 600 ish) and cure V in emergency, never cure VI.

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Yeah that 'emergency' bit is kind of the important part.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I think the maximum duration is 1 minute 45 seconds? and can get up to 39hp/tick?

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Regen IV is 39 HP a tick for 75 seconds; assuming the White Mage has regen merits, Cleric's Briault, and Orison Mitts +2.

Regen has not fared well at all recently, with Cure Potency and MP regeneration both sky-rocketing. Which is a shame, since I really liked the line of spells.

In that case it's 975 HP, which is comparable to a (decent) Cure V, except over time.

Still not horrible, though I wouldn't merit Regen instead of bar potency because of it...

Actually sch could probably get a decent amount out of regen if perpetuance stacks with it, not sure if it does atm. Still stuck with a 5 second cast time and slow cure over that period of time.

Regen used to be incredibly useful due to the low mp cost relative to how much HP total it restored.

Now it's just a waste of casting time ; ;

But that's already been said. Just seconding it ;P

Restore is a good idea, don't know if the "ticks" should or would be helix-type ticks (10 seconds between each tick of regen) for a greater amount (~500) for 3 ticks.

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Originally Posted by Ank

Actually sch could probably get a decent amount out of regen if perpetuance stacks with it, not sure if it does atm. Still stuck with a 5 second cast time and slow cure over that period of time.

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Perpetuance does stack with regen, but trust me: You have many many better things to use perpetuance on than regen.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Not to mention they already have a 27% MDT spell, and are getting an additional AoE MDB JA... OH and very potent Bar-spells when they are used correctly.

Say goodbye to the need for MDT gear

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Unless there is a hard cap on the amount of magic damage that can be reduced by all forms of spells/gear/abilities, there won't ever be a need to drop MDT gear (or at least, stack on more MDB)

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

What did you expect? People thought convert from subjob would break the game. It is simply idiocy and fits right in here.

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You're missing the issue- for RDMS it would be overpowering in a solo situation and cure 5 will all RDM would ever be used for.

RDM and SCH needs Plenilune Embrace strength cure that comes rolled in with a regen effect based on Enhancing skill.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

RDM and SCH needs Plenilune Embrace strength with a /WHM subjob cure that comes rolled in with a regen effect based on Enhancing skill.

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Fixed that for you.

Why /WHM sub? >_O

I feel it's very MP inefficient in comparison to /SCH Light Arts unless you need Stona/Viruna etc.

Perhaps it's also because it's my least favorite subjob. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

RDM and SCH needs Plenilune Embrace strength cure that comes rolled in with a regen effect based on Enhancing skill.

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I was actually thinking of something like this earlier, neat of you to mention that.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Why /WHM sub? >_O

I feel it's very MP inefficient in comparison to /SCH Light Arts unless you need Stona/Viruna etc.

Perhaps it's also because it's my least favorite subjob. *shrug*

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Yeah, forgot about Light Arts and putting B skill on Healing magic.

Part of me would love to have a unique way of healing or mitigation for red mages and scholar, but then I look at the unique spells SE has given scholar since 75. Rather have boring that works than useless.

I /SCH on every mage job (except SMN) simply because of the MP cost - on "arts"

I see /RDM WHMs run out of MP much faster than I do on /SCH