Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVs7vXNZiw

That about sums up this thread. 900 posts + lol amazing

I have yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why abyssea burning is bad.
Pretty much every bad thing being said would be the same if you couldn't enter abyssea till 75.

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

I have yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why abyssea burning is bad.
Pretty much every bad thing being said would be the same if you couldn't enter abyssea till 75.

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Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

the changes need to be two fold for it to work, if the level cap was raised to 70/75, then EXP outside Abyssea needs to change as well, doing both of these would fix the old problem, and this new problem, and the world would be more balanced in terms of where people level.

Abyssea was a good idea, but I think SE should have thought it through before implementation.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

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Give me one of your legit reasons, so we can discuss it.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

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The argument against is that it is too easy and that people don't know their skills. I assure you, sir, that even people who level in legit parties don't always know their skills. It is a slippery slope, and every individual brings something else to the table. This entire thread is basically people opposing experience being easier.

I would muse if half of the detractors existed when ToAU came out (which I am fairly sure they did not) they'd also complain about colibri parties. They also probably opposed level sync.

Complainers will always complain.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

the changes need to be two fold for it to work, if the level cap was raised to 70/75, then EXP outside Abyssea needs to change as well, doing both of these would fix the old problem, and this new problem, and the world would be more balanced in terms of where people level.

Abyssea was a good idea, but I think SE should have thought it through before implementation.

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They did adjust exp outside of abyssea to accommodate lowman/solo play.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

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I've yet to see an argument for raising the requirement that hasn't been completely and totally ripped apart.

I've yet to see an argument for leaving it the way it is that has been even dented.

I'm still waiting to hear where these supernewbs are coming from that are leeching left and right but have no idea where to go online to get info or ask for advice on their jobs.

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

They did adjust exp outside of abyssea to accommodate lowman/solo play.

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I meant again

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

I meant again

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Its extremely easy to exp outside of abyssea, I'm not sure where your going with this.

It sounds like you want abyssea type exp outside of abyssea because you don't want to abyssea burn your jobs?

I'm at a loss here...

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Originally Posted by Ica

I'm still waiting to hear where these supernewbs are coming from that are leeching left and right but have no idea where to go online to get info or ask for advice on their jobs.

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I'm a "supernewb"

Now in some people's defense about people not looking up job info. I have ran into a small number of people who play on console and don't have access to a pc. The majority of those players didn't know much about their jobs or how to gear. (this was pre abyssea)

Although they were usually glad to take any advice they could get.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

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Your argument that it takes a considerable amount of time in party environment to really learn a job is terrible and has already been addressed, but I'll address it yet again.

You said that you started playing in 06 and it took you until you were about level 45 to really start to learn how to play your job. I'm going to take a guess and say it took you about 2 months to get your job to 45 which is probably being generous if you figure in time to level subs and time spent farming.

For someone starting from scratch it should probably take them at most a month to get to 90 once they can start leeching in abyssea. This is probably being generous going the other way since we know that people have done it in less than a week, but we'll let this scenario favor you. Sometime during all this leeching they should have made a few friends, joined an LS, and learned about the various resources for the learning the mechanics of this game, wiki, BG, Alla...

After getting to 90 they would spend let's say a week capping the relevant combat and magic skills, again being generous to you since it shouldn't take more than a couple of days. Now that they have their skills capped, or at least raised to an acceptable level they then spend time browsing the wiki and other websites to learn what gear they need and what sets they should be working towards. After this they can spend the next 2 weeks farming seals and getting atmas and have reasonable TP and WS sets.

So it's been the same 2 month time frame but you're still at level 45 while the person in this scenario now has a level 90 job and still has learned just as much about the game as you did. Abyssea is also much more forgiving for a new player as long as they are with a some what competent group. They are much less likely to cause a wipe than in old content and thus can actually spend more time playing the game instead of being put on the sidelines.

Of course this is assuming that the person playing actually wants to learn about the game and the various jobs. There is no good reason for a person to spend 2-4 months slogging through the levels the old way just to "learn their job".

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

Its extremely easy to exp outside of abyssea,

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Not as easy as it would be to leech from level 1.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Not as easy as it would be to leech from level 1.

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Give or take two afternoons, there isn't much difference. Those who want to, will.

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Originally Posted by HFX7686

I've yet to see an argument for raising the requirement that hasn't been completely and totally ripped apart.
I've yet to see an argument for leaving it the way it is that has been even dented.

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Okay.
How about the massive gap in effort/reward ratio versus all other sources of experience points?

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Originally Posted by Bahamut_Norm

Okay.
How about the massive gap in effort/reward ratio versus all other sources of experience points?

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You're right, the other sources of exp have a shitty effort/reward ratio.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut_Norm

Okay.
How about the massive gap in effort/reward ratio versus all other sources of experience points?

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Have you ever done keying? its totally worth gaining all that exp.

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Originally Posted by Kuishen

You're right, the other sources of exp have a shitty effort/reward ratio.

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Even though FoV exp is definitely slow in comparison to Abyssea exp, I love FoV for one big reason: I can start, stop, and go AFK whenever I damn well please. The pace is relaxing and it doesn't require my attention at all times.

Of course, this is only relevant for lowbie jobs. I couldn't imagine trying to FoV jobs ablove Level 75. Then again, there are better solo-friend alternatives at that level anyways.

I see people making comments like "leveling past 75" and the like, in reference to the old way of leveling, but that is the thing, you would not be doing that even if things changed, Abyssea was made for leveling past 75, the problem is, that is what it should have been for, and there for the cap of 70/75 should have been made.

level 1-75 like you used to (although with higher EXP then right now), then start leveling 76-99 in Abyssea, this is what I would like to see. This way the leveling spread would be evened out across the world.

Why would this be so bad? Yes you would not be able to level from 30-90 in a day or two.... but hell you should never be able to do that in an MMORPG anyway. Doing it in the way I described (as long as SE makes the EXP reward outside Abyssea higher all round then it is now) it would only take you roughly a month to level a job from 1-99. Now really in an MMORPG aspect, is that really a long time?

I agree that abyssea leaching needs to stop. It should be at least adjusted to lvl 70 min to enter abys. I think a bunch of changes need to happen though before that can occur. The game needs to be made more soloable to lvl 70. The reason people leech is because they can't find a party and the lvling is real slow.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

Why would this be so bad? Yes you would not be able to level from 30-90 in a day or two.... but hell you should never be able to do that in an MMORPG anyway. Doing it in the way I described (as long as SE makes the EXP reward outside Abyssea higher all round then it is now) it would only take you roughly a month to level a job from 1-99. Now really in an MMORPG aspect, is that really a long time?

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Because grinding exp is by far the worst part of the game, more people have quit this game because of the grind than any other reason. By allowing people to accelerate the grind then they can actually get to the fun parts of the game and retain players that way instead of having to rely on the artificial time sink of level grinding.

Holy cow this thread is still going. xD

I'm sure someone has already mentioned the solution to this entire thread...


If you don't like the ability to easily level from 30 - 90 ... then go ahead and xp outside abyssea while everyone else makes efficient progress.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

Because grinding exp is by far the worst part of the game, more people have quit this game because of the grind than any other reason. By allowing people to accelerate the grind then they can actually get to the fun parts of the game and retain players that way instead of having to rely on the artificial time sink of level grinding.

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My way would still reduce the grind, if you come to play an MMORPG and get annoyed that it takes you a month to cap level... you need to go play something else -.-

Heck my estimate of a month, was really the long end anyway, with how fast some people are it could only take 2 weeks.

I like bringing low level jobs to level in abyssea because it's fast compared to other ways. For the record, I ask the leader if I can leech with one character while playing a lvl 90 mule as some sort of mage. Usually stand at the ops guy on my main and don't bother getting ops at all on the mule.

I leveled BRD back in the day and after bringing that to dynamis/einherjar, I decided I hated it because the range on horde lullaby was smaller than sleepga and it was aggravating me. That was a lot of time wasted; BRD is still 75 for me.

After they announced they were planning the level increase, everyone in my linkshell needed to level SJs. So we'd make linkshell pts when we weren't doing events. Some people also leveled new jobs. I leveled SMN to 65 before I decided I decided I didn't want to play it. That was a lot of time wasted; SMN is still 65 for me.

A couple months ago I decided to level WAR and got to 80 in 2 days. I went to skill up and eventually decided I didn't like WAR. I then leveled NIN to 87 in a day and eventually decided I liked playing NIN.

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Originally Posted by jamieg

The reason people leech is because they can't find a party and the lvling is real slow.

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No. Prior to abyssea, leveling new jobs was annoying. Now it's easier to level the job then test drive these jobs. I wouldn't have bothered leveling a new job if I had to do it the old way. That shit is just annoying after the first few jobs. I leech because I don't want to go through the crap of spending weeks of effort leveling a job only to decide I don't like it.

Ols players did not wuit cause of the slower XP, it was due to the fact they spent hours on end to get a job from 1-75 THEN SE comes out and makes people able to go from 1-75 in a few days. New people love this, old players that only had 1 lvl 75 & played it until abyssea came out love this. But the game was never made to be easy, SE stated it that when FFXIV came out it was for the casual player that wanted to solo when they had time & would be able to still obtain a high level. FFXI is for the hardcore players that enjoy grinding it out to achieve their goals.

Either way SE will not change this I am sure. it is too late but the thought is nice.

NightDagger
Server - Lakshmi

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

My way would still reduce the grind, if you come to play an MMORPG and get annoyed that it takes you a month to cap level... you need to go play something else -.-

Heck my estimate of a month, was really the long end anyway, with how fast some people are it could only take 2 weeks.

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I've put in my time grinding, and back in the day I didn't mind it so much, but now I'd rather spend the limited time I have to play the game doing something that is enjoyable. The rather vocal minority gets all upset because they feel that everything has to be a time sink in this game and if anyone figures out a way to make that time sink less painful then they get all upset about it.

For all the yelling and screaming and whining and multiple threads about the same damn thing none of you have been able to give a reasonable answer as to why the grind should be put back into this game. When pressed it usually boils down to well I had to grind, so should everyone else. And when pressed further it turns out that most of you didn't even do the really hard grind, it was all post ToAU. I did my grinding when a 6k/hr party was great and an 8k/hr party was fantastic, 10k/hr was unheard of, and nothing any of you say will make me want to go back to something like that again. And yes anything outside of abyssea is similar since you would be going from 200k/hr down to 50k/hr even with the exp adjustments.

I had 6 75s before Abyssea came out, and only took a 7th up with Abyssea. EXP'ing is not hardcore. At all. It's just a means to an end. Real hardcore is Endgame; which some people mistake Abyssea for. Abyssea is not Endgame, it's by definition Midgame content and it shows. It's not like the Devs wanted us to sit on our thumbs and go do Salvage and Einherjar for a year until we hit 99 and the next set of Endgame was release. Abyssea is something to do, that's all.

Real goals, real bragging rights, in 8 years these have never had anything to do with leveling up. They come from what you do afterwards.

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Originally Posted by NightDagger

Ols players did not wuit cause of the slower XP, it was due to the fact they spent hours on end to get a job from 1-75 THEN SE comes out and makes people able to go from 1-75 in a few days. New people love this, old players that only had 1 lvl 75 & played it until abyssea came out love this. But the game was never made to be easy, SE stated it that when FFXIV came out it was for the casual player that wanted to solo when they had time & would be able to still obtain a high level. FFXI is for the hardcore players that enjoy grinding it out to achieve their goals.

Either way SE will not change this I am sure. it is too late but the thought is nice.

NightDagger
Server - Lakshmi

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You are so wrong with this I don't even know where to start. I'm as old a player as you can get having imported the game from Japan and played since before the US release. I had 4 jobs at 75 the old way and it would have been more but I decide I wanted to have fun playing the game, and the new way is soooooooooooooo much better. The only people who hate the new way are a bunch of masochists that feel like playing an MMO should be a form of virtual flagellation. The so called hardcore players are the ones who love the new way because it allows them to actually work on their goals instead of having to grind exp all day. The so called casuals are the ones that seem to hate it, and I can't figure out why. Everything is better for them, they actually have a chance to earn top tier gear now and not have it monopolized by a few elite LS's, they can accomplish more in the limited play time they have than they ever could before, but for some odd reason are rebelling against it. I guess it's because they seeing themselves turning into what they always railed against, the "elitest" players and they can't stand it.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

I did my grinding when a 6k/hr party was great and an 8k/hr party was fantastic, 10k/hr was unheard of, and nothing any of you say will make me want to go back to something like that again.

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Yes! Those days were a complete nightmare...And as I'm sitting here trying to remember a good moment in those times(outside of partying with friends), I come to realize I don't even want to think about it....

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

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Because this is a great game in which to do things that aren't leveling.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

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You're still ignoring the part where no one can explain what's wrong with abyssea leeching, no one can give an answer that doesn't boil down to "I just don't like it". When you can come up with a solid reason as to why it's bad, and not some emotional purely opinion based reason either, then we can have a discussion about it.

Its basically others have to grind or have grinded already to get jobs to a high enough standard, they brought spells/farmed armour/weapons meritted even, for what to let someone else leeching exp in a job they dont know how to play nor like most will ever use it to help others..... I think the standard level of abyssea should be raised to 75, or if they keep it at 30 make it that you either cant open chests or gain any exp from it, till u reach 75.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

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Why adjust the exp gain in outside areas when SE could just lower the level requirement to to enter abyssea to 1? Then, eveyone gets abyssea XP.

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Originally Posted by windrider

Its basically others have to grind or have grinded already to get jobs to a high enough standard, they brought spells/farmed armour/weapons meritted even, for what to let someone else leeching exp in a job they dont know how to play nor like most will ever use it to help others..... I think the standard level of abyssea should be raised to 75, or if they keep it at 30 make it that you either cant open chests or gain any exp from it, till u reach 75.

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I don't think you've even read any part of the thread since this was covered on this same page. A majority of older players who have done the grinding and completed what you've mentioned have NO objections to others leeching.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Why adjust the exp gain in outside areas when SE could just lower the level requirement to to enter abyssea to 1? Then, eveyone gets abyssea XP.

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Isn't the point of an MMO you pay for is to have Exclusiveness? Whats the driving force of every single MMO player out there? Exclusivity. That is why so many people sink so much of their time into an MMO. To be better than the next person. Lowering the limit to 1 would completely destroy that. At that point a F2P mmo would have more to enjoy than FFXI.
When Abyssea first started the limit at that time should have been 70+. It's entirely too late for that now. Every single player has already taken advantage of the exp gain at low levels it would be unfair to those that may be starting the game new, or returning. But please don't ruin it even further by lowering the level requirement for entrance even more.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Why adjust the exp gain in outside areas when SE could just lower the level requirement to to enter abyssea to 1? Then, eveyone gets abyssea XP.

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That is the worst thing that could happen to this game, they might as well just start everyone at level 99 when they make a new character -.-

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Originally Posted by Niklz

Isn't the point of an MMO you pay for is to have Exclusiveness? Whats the driving force of every single MMO player out there? Exclusivity. That is why so many people sink so much of their time into an MMO. To be better than the next person. Lowering the limit to 1 would completely destroy that. At that point a F2P mmo would have more to enjoy than FFXI.
When Abyssea first started the limit at that time should have been 70+. It's entirely too late for that now. Every single player has already taken advantage of the exp gain at low levels it would be unfair to those that may be starting the game new, or returning. But please don't ruin it even further by lowering the level requirement for entrance even more.

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Well I dont know about others, I don't really care about exclusivity, and its not way I pay to play an MMORPG. I play to go on adventures, explore, and meet new people. Now it is nothing but level to 30 and go to Abyssea.