New weapons with higher base damage then relics

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Don't count your chocobos before they hatch, pal.

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This.

They said they MIGHT do something IF they have manpower.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Don't count your chocobos before they hatch, pal.

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I get what you mean. They've said they'll fix R/E/M they could do something rubbish like make the WSs better...

But....I mean. Is it worth getting this angry over something which we know is going to be addressed?

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

I get what you mean. They've said they'll fix R/E/M they could do something rubbish like make the WSs better...

But....I mean. Is it worth getting this angry over something which we know is going to be addressed?

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Again...they said they might fix them. It's a coin toss right now.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Again...they said they might fix them. It's a coin toss right now.

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Where was the impression this was only a "might be fixed" given because everything I've read since SoA came out was that they would remain relevant and the only indecision on the development's team was how.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Hello,

Matsui here.

We've been receiving some questions in regards to what we will be doing with relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons moving forward, so I would like to address what I can at the moment.

We are not planning to enhance relic, mythic, or empyrean weapons via Trial of the Magians or through other methods.

However, in regards to these weapons that you have enhanced up to level 99, we are formulating plans so that they do not go to waste. (Including the weapons that do not yet have their afterglows.)

In regards to the shields and instruments, even in light of the growth that will take place for characters with Adoulin equipment, these in particular are still at the highest caliber and will not be addressed in the plans mentioned above.

While I'm unable to talk about the specifics at this point in time, as soon as the time comes where I can, I will be sure to let you all know.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.

What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.

In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.

For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.

Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Matsui here.

I have some follow-up information regarding how we plan to build on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes ("coin") weapons (I'll refer to them as RMEC below. Apologies that I left out coin weapons in my last post).

There are many who feel upset and uneasy regarding the recently introduced weapons, as well as the information that has been conveyed until now. So while this information is still not finalized, I would like to give a bit more insight into our plans.

We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills that are granted from RMEC weapons when you have upgraded them to their level 99 form (this includes non-afterglow weapons, and shield/instruments will not be included in this). However, we plan on adding some conditions that fall in line with the jobs that can equip the respective RMEC weapons.

As we have yet to finish all the testing as to whether or not we can do this, please let me again reiterate that this is not yet finalized.

Due to the nature of this topic, we definitely need to proceed carefully, so despite the fact that I'm only mentioning this at the idea level, I understand that the level of disappointment will be quite great if I say that it is too difficult to accomplish this after all, and I was thinking it would be best to let you all know once it took a bit more shape.

You're probably thinking "if that’s the case, then don’t announce anything," but because I thought it wouldn't be good to not let you know anything until plans were finalized I decided to make this post. (I've been under so much stress I feel like I'm going to get an ulcer >< But I know I shouldn't be complaining.)

While the memories you made and the stats on your equipment cannot always be proportionate, we are trying our best to see if we can keep all of the effort spent on earning these weapons intact.

We plan to do all that we can, but please give us some time for this.

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Pretty sure this is all the relevant dev info that we've been given.
Emphasis mine.

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

I get what you mean. They've said they'll fix R/E/M they could do something rubbish like make the WSs better...

But....I mean. Is it worth getting this angry over something which we know is going to be addressed?

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Now that I had time to think about this I think it is. You can make the adoulin weapons 10x(30x if your talking mythics) faster then you can get a R/E/M to 99. They also don't cost you a thing. How many people actually have fully upgraded R/E/M?

if you ask me they are not going to remap due to the fact it will take alot of time the currency's have gone down to 5k each now in Asura server. If you want your own relic nows the time lol

I'm all for the WS being transferred to the new delve/boss drop weapons via a 99 REMC

So the weapon loses it's shiny coat and it's unique look. It's no different than a car losing it's shine over the years. It doesn't negate the hard work and maintenance you put into the car to keep it running good this long, but sometimes you just gotta upgrade to the better model because nothing lasts forever.

Well using the Swords in terms of DPS
Almace > Excalibur > Burtgang > Buramenk'ah > Halachuinic Sword

On other weapons the order of relic mythic empyrean will change, but you will see a similar result with them being top again for now until the next content. Relics damage procs, and odd on empyrean will beat out the boss delve sword. But is this what people really wanted though? What will happen next content update when stronger stuff is released they won't be the best anymore but probably still useable. With how few people are even killing Delve Bosses to get the key items I can see people going for relics for a weapon that is better then delve boss weapons, but doesn't that make the bosses kind of pointless, well you could get rich selling crafting mats but then still.

Excalibur
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP

Burtgang
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice

Almace
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

Halachuinic Sword
DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
Aguments: +15 attack +10 acc +10 str

Buramenk'ah
DMG:130 Delay:240 STR+13 Accuracy+25 Attack+25 "Double Attack"+3%

well when using the boss weapons as an example in this line up for swords, there going to be the best off handed weapon, tho almace excal and burt/tazonia/cant remember rdms sword, are going to depend on venerables for which is best, that 40 attack difference is a big deal but moving on.

The delve boss weapons will be nice jewels for those sometimes jobs like for me mnk, i will never take the time to make relic knuckles i just dont care about it enough tho i use it some times so the delve weapon would be perfect for me(assuming people start killing them regularly) i can buy it with plasma if i ever beat the trex tho probably take me a week to farm the 200k plasma (really not that much different from a magin trail there in time) and be pretty styling tho, i dont think i should be up to that mnk that made a 99 relic that took 2-3 months tho.

Can we get an update on these Developers? Been a while since anyone has posted anything.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I don't think we care about relics being slightly outclassed or on/par with these new weapons, but outclassing them by 30% is what most people are complaining about.

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Welp, a lot of RMEs been outclassing alternatives by similar percentages for a long time. I didn't see RME folks complaining when they could lord their shinies over the peasants and make it so that a person couldn't dream of being a DD in anything but lol content unless they had an army to farm for them, or a lot of spare time and no aversion to utter boredom.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Roundabout, but the "WHY" Street is a two way road. Everyone keeps asking Relic owners "WHy should you..." This, and "Why do you..." That, but, I mean, with all the "RME ARE SO EASY" Flying around, why do you guys insist they're so hard, yet at the same time insist they're so easy so they should be replaced.

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I've never said they are easy. That said, I do believe the only skills it takes to obtain one is patience and no aversion to boredom. Crikes, I find plasm farming dull too but at least I don't have to solo it, or try to convince some mooks it is in their best interest to spend hours farming for MY weapon.

Why? Because the game was getting to the point where to play a DD (which most jobs are) in current content you had to have REM. If anyone is to blame it's the folks (all with REM) who limited invites for DD to every relevant event to people with REM.

The people who got their panties in a knot telling me how terrible I was for not planning to make an almace for my blue mage - they brought this content on. SE probably came to the conclusion that requiring people to solo for a year to be able to play most jobs in group content was killing the game (be honest, how many newbies have you helped get an REM for? How about just people who weren't around when you were in major Emp farming mode?)

It wasn't sustainable. Delve, while horribly boring, at least rewards people pretty equally, unlike every other major weapon class out there. That means, instead of the stupid disincentive to help other people build weapons (which is REM) - the content rewards you for helping other people reach their goals. They made the weapons better so that people who have REM would participate in the content. They got your attention, didn't they?

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

These are really just devils advocate questions, but I mean enough is enough, some of you keep ragging and laughing at Relic owners, and you keep dodging any questions as to why you think this is good instead of just dancing in a circle about how laziness finally paid off.

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I think it is good because for once a super weapon class doesn't require either soloing or exploitation to get done. That's why. No one invited me to a "relic farming LS" or "empy weapon LS" before - why? Cause they didn't need me, and having me around just meant more work for them to get what they wanted. I'm in a delve LS now and it s great. The content ENCOURAGES teamwork and LSes and FRIENDSHIP since it is no longer a zero sum game (I get weapon, you can have some +2 items that you probably don't need anymore since we've farmed 3 million carabosses)

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Why do you feel these laughably easy to obtain weapons should be 30% Stronger than a 99 Relic? Why do you feel relics should be outclassed when most if not all owners put in substantial time and effort? Why do you think Less Effort > More Effort in terms of rewards? Why should players who dont want to do the work get the best? Why can't you be happy with what you put forth the effort to obtain?

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Because the game needed a reset. Because a game where someone starting out is expected to solo a year doing incredibly boring things to be allowed to not be laughed out of content is a game that is going down the tube. Because making people do OLD OLD content to be relevant in new content is asinine. Because I pay the same monthly fee as you, and while I don't expect to have as good gear as someone who plays more, I do expect to be able to play current, relevant content on my own schedule, and to be able to improve my character in meaningful ways. I also don't think being immune to boredom/masochistic should be a requirement for anyone wanting to be a DD.

Basically you, with your patience/playtime/skill/dedication/gil/masochism etc whatever you want to call it, are still going to have a better weapon than me (more airlixirs, boss weapons,more gear, more weapons) - it just won't be the massive gap it was before. I don't see what the hairy deal is with SE wanting to break down the inpentrable wall that was blocking people from playing the jobs they wanted to play. It just makes it so casuals are not utterly useless as DD. people with good gear swaps/better sets/boss weapons will still be better, don't fear... But sorry I mean think of the RDMs who played for years waiting on their turn for a dchap (i know people who never ever got one even) - now they drop to the floor... It's not a big deal, so the shiny you made before is less useful... Welp so is my toci's harness, deal with it.

Olor, I get what you're saying but I'd like to repeat something that others (including Karbuncle) have said before:

It's not the fact that good, easy-to-obtain weapons have been added to the game that's upsetting R/E/M holders. It's the fact that these weapons absolutely CRUSH their 99 R/E/M counterparts that's making people angry. Take me for example - I finished 99-ing my Masamune less than 2 weeks before this update, after having spent countless hours making gil to buy plates and cinders (I don't have a fishbot mule army and I most certainly don't buy gil). It actually felt like an accomplishment finishing it - how do you think I felt when 2 weeks later, Delve was introduced? It would have been absolutely fine if the Delve GK was on par with my Masamune. But the fact that my Masamune is now irrelevant and collecting dust in my MH - together with my Amanomurakumo - makes me sad, and I feel utterly cheated by SE.

I don't need my R/Es (I don't have a mythic) to be the best of the best of the best, I don't mind if there are other, more easily obtained weapons that are comparable. As far as I know, the skirmish GK was a good alternative, but SE went and made that event pointless to do a month after it was released. However, I do mind that my time and effort have been for nothing.

Edit: I wholeheartedly believe this all could have been avoided if SE had already planned out how to improve 99 R/E/Ms beforehand, and released that info at the same time Delve was introduced. The fact that it apparently never occurred to them the kind of s**tstorm the release of Delve weapons would cause, is nothing short of amazing - a bad kind of amazing.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Can we get an update on these Developers? Been a while since anyone has posted anything.

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Its probably like 2 updates at least out, because they said it wasn't going to be in the next update.

This is June though, our supposed large update from what I know, so maybe it will be, after all we have skipped a month, perhaps they delayed the entire update to just fuse it with this one?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Its probably like 2 updates at least out, because they said it wasn't going to be in the next update.

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^ This, my guess is the Sept update.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Basically you, with your patience/playtime/skill/dedication/gil/masochism etc whatever you want to call it, are still going to have a better weapon than me (more airlixirs, boss weapons,more gear, more weapons) - it just won't be the massive gap it was before. I don't see what the hairy deal is with SE wanting to break down the inpentrable wall that was blocking people from playing the jobs they wanted to play. It just makes it so casuals are not utterly useless as DD. people with good gear swaps/better sets/boss weapons will still be better, don't fear... But sorry I mean think of the RDMs who played for years waiting on their turn for a dchap (i know people who never ever got one even) - now they drop to the floor... It's not a big deal, so the shiny you made before is less useful... Welp so is my toci's harness, deal with it.

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Call me when your Toci's harness cost 600m gil and months worth of nyzul/assaults/einherjar.

Just like we are suppose to get two new smns that was said 2 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Just like we are suppose to get two new smns that was said 2 years ago.

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Yea and 2nd, 2 hour ability lol

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Can we get an update on these Developers? Been a while since anyone has posted anything.

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i Would like an update on the current trials.. i know we know a trial will not be needed for the new r/e/m boost.. but the trials as they are now are still unfair and unbalanced compared to the new delve weapons.. its a fact that these delve weapons are overall easier to obtain and upgrade then their predecessors.. If you are going to make the game easy street lets make it a bit more equal for everyone

update on r/e/m yes please, also put war on the plasma axe, makes no sense warrior can use plasma dagger sword and club but not the axe

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

It actually felt like an accomplishment finishing it - how do you think I felt when 2 weeks later, Delve was introduced? It would have been absolutely fine if the Delve GK was on par with my Masamune. But the fact that my Masamune is now irrelevant and collecting dust in my MH - together with my Amanomurakumo - makes me sad, and I feel utterly cheated by SE.

Edit: I wholeheartedly believe this all could have been avoided if SE had already planned out how to improve 99 R/E/Ms beforehand, and released that info at the same time Delve was introduced. The fact that it apparently never occurred to them the kind of s**tstorm the release of Delve weapons would cause, is nothing short of amazing - a bad kind of amazing.

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I get what you are saying, I feel you on this aspect.

I don't know. I agree they messed up with the implentation, not just their evasive "don't throw your epic weapons away!" Remark but by putting a 20 minute timer on the nms after the fact instead of right at the beginning.

I also hear a lot of REM holders not just saying "I want my weapon to be competitive" but saying "I deserve to be the best forever because I did this." I don't agree with that. I think it healthy for the game to refresh every once in awhile.

I also think if they do boost RME it shouldn't just be level 99 weapons, it should be 90 and above (less boost for lower levels)

Since we got the new +188 skill weapons which assume drop from new wildskeepers with the other half of the weapons coming in August. Whenever they decide to do the relic update won't that just make them still bad compared to these new +188 skill weapons.

Example
Tamaxchi Club - DMG:88 Delay:216 INT+5 MND+5 Magic Accuracy+90 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+12 Magic Damage+99 Club skill +188 Parrying skill +188 Healing magic skill+15 "Cure" potency+22%

Xbalanque Scythe - DMG:256 Delay:528 STR+12 DEX+12 Scythe skill +188 Parrying skill +188 "Double Attack"+3%

Ixtab Great Axe - DMG:245 Delay:504 STR+12 VIT+12 Element: Earth+20 Great axe skill +188 Parrying skill +188 "Store TP"+8

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

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I'm heading in the same direction as you. This game has become pointless. Goals such has REM has become valueless. Delve weapons are the best in damage, but it's damage is one thing, it's damage strong enough to make special stats on every single weapon before it worth ignoring is another.

Did over 13K damage on Megamaw Mikey. As a Scholar >.> while its fun, it's pointless. SCH is not DD, not like I gain any benefit from doing this anywhere else. In a way it's like having false power. Mikey is only 1 NM that this can be done on and nothing else really.

Each time I login I wonder what else should I do? Then I think about salvage, NNI... My inventory is shot with too many gear sets for delve. I don't have room for anything else. No matter how many times I drop merit and put it on something else? It's just out of boredom really. So yeah, I'm heading in the same direction. Pack up a hiking bag and heading out the door soon.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

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About in the same boat.

What I really do not understand is why SE is not even keeping us updated on what they are planning, secondly why it is not being implemented asap!

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Originally Posted by Richwood

What I really do not understand is why SE is not even keeping us updated on what they are planning, secondly why it is not being implemented asap!

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Too much going wrong, desire to add new stuff over adjusting old issues, and likely highly understaffed. In short it's fairly obvious SE is either completely clueless on how to keep 11 going or they have no desire to keep it going and are letting it die off while still making it look like they're trying to keep it alive.

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Originally Posted by Richwood

What I really do not understand is why SE is not even keeping us updated on what they are planning, secondly why it is not being implemented asap!

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Because people complain when they don't add what they say they are going to add when they said when they were going to add it.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Because people complain when they don't add what they say they are going to add when they said when they were going to add it.

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Not like projecting timelines with padding to account for "surprises" is a skill worth having as developer.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

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ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

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Originally Posted by nyheen

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

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Did I say that? No, I did not. You can search any FFXI forum you like and you will never find a post by me where I say I want R/E/Ms to be better. I want them to stay RELEVANT. And I'm most certainly not the only one. Besides, the R/E/M issue isn't the only reason I cancelled my content IDs.

Well probably me reading too much into it but the way they almost pointlessly said that revamped RME will have Item levels above 100 implies that when revamped RMEs will have the Skill + attributes added to them, since they mentioned only atk+ or acc+ on weapons in general (and from their POV) are detrimental to DW jobs since its more of a choice than with 2handed weapon classes. So maybe that's why there's a ton of Skill+ on all weapons (they are retroactively adding this trait to all post Adoulin weaponry) since Skill affects both attack and Acc and they can add it to weapons in a single term.

Admittedly though this doesn't explain why it's taking them so long other than stuff was already in production and planned when the first uproar came about and it won't be till after August where anything planned is done and they can then focus on Player wants. Granted that explanation doesn't do much to assuage players who are turned off by their new direction.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

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I guess the first question here is to ask Mr.Nyheen if he has ever even bothered putting the effort into making an REM or into any long term goal in the game before commenting on some thing he "may" be clueless on? Have you? just interested to know as a 10 year player myself. I think it is great SE has decided to offer content to the casual player base while leaving some niche high end content for players seeking a larger challenge. I am not against others having nice shiny things at all. I am just more in the same boat as Tamoa and would like to see long term achievements stay relevant.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

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Same here, my CC is expiring and there's no way i'll put a new one when I see how ridiculous and over powered all that new gear is.

Funny thing: when I went to sleep last night, only 650 people were in game, I guess it shows how much people lost faith in the devs.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

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What a bellend you are! R/E/M 99 Versions are nowere near 7 years old, heck empyreans themselves are much younger than the other two you listed overall.

Se should never have allowed R/M to goto 99 if they didn't want to continue the trend on.

let see. i help over 7+ people with relic, before the dynamis update. you know the time when it was over 40+ members in your pt farming there. done 1 emp for me 50% solo/duo, help 4+ for g/f. duoing. and help 1 on Mythic. yes the whole thing and iam not doing that anymore>.>

since that stuff was in the past. them weapons are nothing more then a trophy, but now it time for some new stuff. they not going to want to keep updating the same R/E/M if they keep throwing other stronger and better weapons at us. got all my +2 emp AF and the new gear out class most of it. times is changing and it going fast. this is more of a very easy casual player game, nothing like like how it was in the past. i saw the changes started to slowly happen once abyssea came out. you know the traditional challenging pts diying because of it? but i wont get into that since i will be flamed.

but anyways now it looking like most AH weapons out class some delve ones. this is the path most casual players want. so i just stop caring and just go with the flow. RIP old school XI

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Originally Posted by nyheen

but anyways now it looking like most AH weapons out class some delve ones. this is the path most casual players want. so i just stop caring and just go with the flow. RIP XI

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Fixed that for you, and I understand your go-with-the-flow mindset... quite mellow.

But, Most(MOST!!) Casuals are a fleeting skid-mark on MMOs, and rather they enjoy it or not they'll move on to the next shiny-game in a matter of months... And this game ain't attracting new players lol, especially with FFXIV so close to done, so any FF fanboys who may have jumped on XI will probably hit the new MMO first.

Still, FFXI is no more, The game is essentially boiling down to WoWClone Online like every other MMO created after WoW, Which honestly I don't hate WoW, its a solid, very popular game with well made content that really attracts people to it, but its gameplay, what works for WoW was not what worked for FFXI. they had separate plans and events and so forth, this new director is trying to blend them but its failing because WoW was designed with this gear ladder in mind, FFXI Was not. I didn't pick up FFXI to play a WoW clone, Hell i enjoyed FFXI because it was so different, yet still managed to be fun despite it flaws.

I know its hard to accept but if you /sea all and you're honest with yourself, You'll notice the dwindling population. My a** was so addicted to FFXI I've been playing since NA Beta, and I've finally hit the point where I've said f**k it and quit, Tamoa is on the same boat as me, playing forrreevveerrr... Seriously I'm the type who used to always say "I'm going to play to the servers close!", I used to have dreams about playing XI IRL, I sometimes woke up in the morning trying to Change jobs or equip clothes for work, yah, half-awake gooo...

And they drove me away, Others like me will follow and I'm not delusional enough to think this will immediately kill XI, while I'm sure FFXI will live on for at least another year or more, if people wanted WoW they'd play WoW, this "New design" smell will wear off and even those people who enjoy it will get sick of it in a year or two when they realize nothing they work for matters anymore and most of the players who could carry them through events have tossed in the towel.

And if the game doesn't almost completely phase into obscurity and they have to merge servers again, I'll be shocked, especially with FFXIV Being released soon... But if they do stay alive I won't throw a fit, in fact I'll be proud of how the game survived... Even if I'm not on the boat anymore, doesn't mean i want it to sink.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

I'm heading in the same direction as you. This game has become pointless. Goals such has REM has become valueless. Delve weapons are the best in damage, but it's damage is one thing, it's damage strong enough to make special stats on every single weapon before it worth ignoring is another.

Did over 13K damage on Megamaw Mikey. As a Scholar >.> while its fun, it's pointless. SCH is not DD, not like I gain any benefit from doing this anywhere else. In a way it's like having false power. Mikey is only 1 NM that this can be done on and nothing else really.

Each time I login I wonder what else should I do? Then I think about salvage, NNI... My inventory is shot with too many gear sets for delve. I don't have room for anything else. No matter how many times I drop merit and put it on something else? It's just out of boredom really. So yeah, I'm heading in the same direction. Pack up a hiking bag and heading out the door soon.

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Dele weapons were not meant to take on add Abyssea content it was meant to take on aldoulin content.