Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

I think we should remove the exp point system. One level per kill sounds right. After that, one merit point per kill.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I think we should remove the exp point system. One level per kill sounds right. After that, one merit point per kill.

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Or just have everyone start at level 99.

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Originally Posted by Avina

So why have experience points?

And I don't say this to sound snarky. I am genuinely confused why Square-Enix allows us to leech and burn things as they do, apparently since even they've taken the stance that exping is a waste of time, so why not just start everyone off at 90, they can unlock the jobs they want to play as on their own, get their own gear, since apparently they want the game to be blitzed.

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Well, you still have to skill up. The "you have to get it to 30" weeds out people from just leveling jobs on a whim (unless they had it as a subjob already), but yeah. Gimps will be gimps regardless of how they level, so abolishment of XP entirely would be fine by me.

Old-way XPing vs. Abyssea leeching isn't climbing a mountain vs. taking an escalator to the top, as someone said on the previous page, it's more like carving your own snowboard out of fiberglass vs. buying one at the store. It doesn't matter how you got the snowboard (personal satisfaction notwithstanding--you can level however you want), what matters is what you do with it after you get it.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

I rocked face as DRK/DRG, MNK/DRG and SAM/DRG from Lv30 to Lv60, even against other people using the same jobs and were equally geared, but decided to sub /war or /nin. And I thought of it all without consulting any forum or anyone in game. I'm pretty sure I was one of the first people to popularize /DRG also, because 2 weeks after, I started to see an increase in wyvern earring sales.

Barely missed a swing, didn't even need madrigal or hunter's roll and pounded face like no other. Figured that all out by myself without consulting any website or anyone. And it was FUN to play.

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I like the inflated self ego there. As if you were the first person to popularize something, then go on to mention you didnt need hunters roll... as if it even existed back when people were using /drg.

All points a side, tropical punches were a waste and id probably have called you a noob too considering mythril claws +1 out perform it and more then make up for the loss in acc at that level.

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Originally Posted by Miiyo

Why do you care so much about what other people are doing? Last night I ate food. I showered. I took a poop. Does any of that matter to you?

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It's funny to see how many people are defending the leech system, the same system that will eventually speed up the death of FFXI. Even going so far as to agree with aboloshing EXP entirely. Players being able to LvUp jobs extremely fast, will just give them more excuses to beg the Dev's to add more content, because they've maxed everything out already and have nothing left to do. A sad and negative fact that happens all too often, and I wonder how people can actually enjoy a game like this?

Eating and taking a poop can be compared to breathing and sleeping, which are basic required human functions that you need to live, so using those as examples mean nothing. But in actuality, when people vote and defend systems and beliefs that aren't required for living, then yes, it will directly or indirectly affect other people.

The major point here is that, nobody would be defending or getting upset about Abyssea Leeching, if the LvCap was 75 in the first place. Because of the fact that you were already handed the toy, SE would be stupid to take it away from you. That being said, them handing you that toy DID affect me, because I enjoy exping outside of Abyssea in regular EXP PT's. And when there is less and less people to pick from in the "/sea all inv" list, then it's harder for me to find members for that PT.

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

Well, you still have to skill up.

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Just did about 900 levels of skill ups the other day, in 3 hours~

Yay retaliation.

Just out of curiosity for all of the ppl that are so against the level 30 cap do yall make sure to level to 70-75 before you even consider even stepping foot in aby on any job? I'm willing to bet you don't. And if you don't you're just being hypocritical, no matter what excuse you make up in your head to justify going since you're so blatantly against the 30 cap.

Old-time partying just isn't going to meet expectations in the face of a post-Abyssea era. S-E have doubled the experience point vales of all mobs in the common world, as well as removed restrictions on regimen books. But even granting that, many who have had a taste of that sweet Abyssea experience intake will be hesitant to return to what the OP is asking, unless they want a chance of backdrop.

Putting this genie back in its lamp would be nigh on impossible in the face of the predicted complaints that would come with such a move. And even if it were to happen, would it be the right thing to do? The players who bought these add-ons with the promise of some low-level content (think running around and doing fame quests) would have had a bait-and-switch pulled on them after the fact. That would be a lousy deal, and one that I couldn't support.

OP, you want them to put a level restriction on Abyssea in order to force people to go back to the old zones. This is the problem in a nutshell: you want to force people to do something they don't want to do. Perhaps if old content were upgraded to suit the palette of the average post-Abyssea player, maybe these zones would see more traffic. A drop in FoV restrictions, and the recently added GoV were good steps in this direction. But if it won't match (or even come relatively close) to what you get in Abyssea, why would anyone go back?

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Originally Posted by rog

Just did about 900 levels of skill ups the other day, in 3 hours~

Yay retaliation.

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If only I could level GKT that way.

/sigh

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

you want to force people to do something they don't want to do.

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^ This. If the "level to 75 outside of Abyssea" crowd had any actual support among the playerbase at large, we'd still be seeing ToAU bird parties at the very least. But we don't.

Don't worry, though. People complained about leveling up without skill regarding manaburns, arrowburns, mnkburns, Colibri TPburns, and Campaign 75s. They never got what they wanted, and you won't either. Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

It's funny to see how many people are defending the leech system, the same system that will eventually speed up the death of FFXI.

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The death of FFXI will be time. Previous to the announcement of 76+ we were suffering a stagnant, slow death. People had leveled all the jobs they had ever wanted up to 75 and were losing interest in end game events. They had all the gear they wanted, or almost all of the gear they wanted, and there was nothing enjoyable in the game anymore.

Abyssea is not the death of FFXI. It is a new, refreshing life.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Even going so far as to agree with aboloshing EXP entirely. Players being able to LvUp jobs extremely fast, will just give them more excuses to beg the Dev's to add more content, because they've maxed everything out already and have nothing left to do. A sad and negative fact that happens all too often, and I wonder how people can actually enjoy a game like this?

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What's wrong with wanting content in a video game? After eight years, you honestly expect us to continue being satisfied with the same, non-repeatable content? Currently the only way to repeat all of the content is to start a new character over and most people don't find that idea very attractive.

As long as we continue to pay for the game, we, the playerbase, want to enjoy the game. If there is nothing left to enjoy, we will become bored and begin to drift.

Besides, I'm sure it's a huge compliment to the dev team whenever we ask them for more content. That means we enjoy their work well enough to continue asking them for more.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

The major point here is that, nobody would be defending or getting upset about Abyssea Leeching, if the LvCap was 75 in the first place. Because of the fact that you were already handed the toy, SE would be stupid to take it away from you. That being said, them handing you that toy DID affect me, because I enjoy exping outside of Abyssea in regular EXP PT's. And when there is less and less people to pick from in the "/sea all inv" list, then it's harder for me to find members for that PT.

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Not true. As GreatGuardian has said, leeching is not a level, it's a failure to provide anything beneficial to the party. Jobs at 90 who fail to properly gear themselves are bigger leechers than the level 30s opening the chests.

And as someone who once had Bard 75, I can assure you that one, I would never want to be stuck playing it in Abyssea, and two, would not want to waste my cruor opening chests because nobody else wants to, and the alliance didn't want to get a level 30 to do it. If any party ever expects me to open chests as a level 90 who's actually doing their job, I just leave. I can kill fast enough to enjoy solo play and I think it'd be rude to expect anyone who's properly doing their job to give up their cruor for 17 other people. It's a trade off with level 30s though. They give us their cruor, we give them their levels.

Well said Meyi :) Chest openers are win win situation. The OP are delusional. If you are leeching you know the trade-off, you loose cruors, exp gain starts very slow (you need to stay at least 60-120 mnts to start seeing xp benefits), and dominion xp also starts very low. On top of that, you will have to skill ups which also take a good amount of time outside aby. The timesink is still there, but slightly different. You can still do a lot of repeatable quests as lvl 30. Abyssea is great as it is, no need to implement level cap, and let people leech as key openers. As developers I rather bring new people to the game, or returning players who will buy the new abyssea add ons, that is money coming in. As for the hardcore bitter players? Let them die and leave the game, they do nothing but spread their bitter poison and yearn for the "old ways" where everything was horrible and the game was extremely NOT users friendly. I am glad the old ways is dead, gone, buried, and forever be forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

As for the hardcore bitter players? Let them die and leave the game, they do nothing but spread their bitter poison and yearn for the "old ways" where everything was horrible and the game was extremely NOT users friendly. I am glad the old ways is dead, gone, buried, and forever be forgotten.

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I don't think anybody who clamors for XP to be made slower could be considered a hardcore player (a hardcore leveler, maybe). The real elitists tend to like the ability to leech.

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

If only I could level GKT that way.

/sigh

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load up on some counter gear/atma? Should still be faster than fighting one mob at a time :(

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Originally Posted by rog

load up on some counter gear/atma? Should still be faster than fighting one mob at a time :(

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Honestly, I haven't made it a huge priority since I only use GKT for Koki/Jinpu (since I don't have SAM past SJ), but yeah, I should get around to doing that. For some reason I had it in my head that because you don't get TP from counters, you can't skill up on them (as opposed to retaliations).

I guess it's time to put that Novennial ring to use (leveling /MNK)!

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

For some reason I had it in my head that because you don't get TP from counters, you can't skill up on them (as opposed to retaliations).

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disclaimer: the only job i have ever played that could counter is nin.

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Originally Posted by rog

disclaimer: the only job i have ever played that could counter is nin.

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Nah, I checked wiki, you're legit.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Abyssea is not the death of FFXI. It is a new, refreshing life.

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Kind of like a new born baby Alien from the movie "Alien".

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Originally Posted by Meyi

What's wrong with wanting content in a video game?

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When that content completely kills off everything else, then yea there's something wrong with that content.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Not true. As GreatGuardian has said, leeching is not a level, it's a failure to provide anything beneficial to the party. Jobs at 90 who fail to properly gear themselves are bigger leechers than the level 30s opening the chests.

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This is absolute BS to the max.

The only reason NEW players wear Perle, Aurore and Teal equip, is because all the other good gear that comes from OTHER CONTENT is obsolete and nobody runs that stuff anymore. Oh wow, what made that other content obsolete in the first place? Lol... People like GG who support Lv30 Abyssea leeching, that's what.

And GG has the nerve to complain about their gear without actually giving it any thought as to why they're forced to wear it. All I can say to that is LOL.

Akujima how long have you played the game if you dont mind?

If you think most of the gear from old content is still relevant... I don't know what to tell you. Those people using full perle etc are mostly just lazy. I tend to farm AF3 and other required macro gear for a job before I even level it.

GG was correct in most players complaining about leeches are leeches themselves. I did a pick up merit pt after the servers went back up and the amount of terribly geared players is astonishing. I was on SAM at the time just screwing around and there was actually another SAM in the group. He asked why I blink so much and I asked if he used any gear swaps at all and he said no. He replied saying his damage was just as good without using gear swaps as the people who did use gear swaps, he mentioned that gear swaps weren't worth the hassle of using. This guy had 0% haste and no gear swaps and he was just one of many like that in the pick up group.

It's fairly sad when one person (myself in this case) was doing majority of the damage in an alliance. It's even sadder that I was a samurai, which is a job that is fairly lackluster in abyssea to begin with doing more damage than majority of the other DDs combined. I did have a slight advantage over the normal player by having a lvl 90 emp weapon but that still doesn't excuse the pitiful damage numbers I was seeing in the log.

Raging rushes for 1k or less, 600 blade jins, the damage equivalents of gimp throwing ninjas, etc. I see you here trying to defend the fact that these people are not leeches? Ha. A key leech is more useful than any of these people. I was killing 3 mobs solo in the time it took them to kill one.

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Originally Posted by Kazen

.......I did have a slight advantage over the normal player by having a lvl 90 emp weapon but that still doesn't excuse the pitiful damage numbers I was seeing in the log.

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LOL, omg hahaha...

So you're complaining about New Players that haven't been able to farm their butts off to get 90 Emp Weapons and AF3+2 yet. And instead of giving them advice, your answer is just to call them Noobs and use that as an excuse to why you should Leech to Lv30. Very nice.

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

Nah, I checked wiki, you're legit.

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I just added that to :safeface:

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Originally Posted by rog

I just added that to :safeface:

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Naturally.

Also, your LJ icon link was borked last week (appears to be fine now). You need to get unbanned on Alla (at least in /k/ ; ;) again, at least until they get a PM function on these boards, so I can complain at you if it happens again.

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

Naturally.

Also, your LJ icon link was borked last week (appears to be fine now). You need to get unbanned on Alla (at least in /k/ ; ;) again, at least until they get a PM function on these boards, so I can complain at you if it happens again.

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I am always on skype and aim, at GCKDBC826GTA7TTR. Alternatively if you send me a pm on alla with your email address, i will email you, so you can contact me through that. or you can always just pm me on alla. I can still recieve pms, i just cannot reply, so if you want a reply, you need to leave me a way to do so. You can also pm me through ffxiah. Really it is not hard to get ahold of me.

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Originally Posted by rog

I am always on skype and aim, at GCKDBC826GTA7TTR. Alternatively if you send me a pm on alla with your email address, i will email you, so you can contact me through that. or you can always just pm me on alla. I can still recieve pms, i just cannot reply, so if you want a reply, you need to leave me a way to do so. You can also pm me through ffxiah. Really it is not hard to get ahold of me.

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Gotcha. Thanks.

Here's an amazing thought. You don't like leechers? Make your own pts and don't allow them. Simple as that.

I actually came back to the game about 3 months ago, previously when I played abyssea wasn't out yet, and the cap was still 75.

Anyone who complains about this is being ridiculous. NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO HAVE LEECHERS. Also, abbysea pts go so insanely fast, they are not screwing up your xp in a way that you should complain. The fact you can even get more than one level a day is huge past 75 compared to the old ways.

And lol at old content is "dead". The only "dead" content are certain xp areas, and SE has already started reviving those areas with things like GoV, sky gear augments, etc. There are still tons of people who seek pts, and because of level sync there is nothing stopping you from making a party in the old areas.

Heck I've been doing that a lot lately, becuase I had no mage subjobs and decided I finally wanted to take rdm up. Not bothering to leech some jobs that only need to get to 45, and I rarely have to seek long before getting a regular pt.


Basically, this idea just takes away, and does nothing. No one is forcing you to leech, no one is forcing you to have them in your pt, no one is even forcing you to xp in abyssea at all.

Not this shit again. The subject has already be discussed to death in previous threads and thoroughly discredited. For Akujima and any of the other supporters of this tired idea please go read those threads and if you can come up with an argument that hasn't already been torn to shreds then we will gladly tear your new argument to shreds for you.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You make the assumption that any half-decent level 90 DD+Mage combo can't full clear entire camps on their own. You don't need more than 5 people tops to make the absolute maximum EXP/hr available at any given camp, 3 of which are just going to be pulling nonstop.

If adding additional level 75+ adds absolutely nothing to the killspeed, adding additional level 30's subtracts absolutely nothing from the killspeed.

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And you make the assumption that these heroes who can wipe out the entire zone single-handedly are dime a dozen, that every ally has two of them, and moreover, that such heroes exist. In my experience, most allies are just that, allies, a team effort of a dozen or more people working together to get the best EXP they can get. Some people have barely hit 75 and don't have much gear to speak of at all. Others were 75 before the level cap adjustments, and have some current gear here and there. Two guys wiping out the entire zone instantly when mobs pop? You exaggerate, sir.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Leeches are parasites, whether they are level 30 or level 90. That 30brd keyspammer? Leech. That level 90 NIN in full aurore gear who doesn't gear swap and puts out 500 damage Jins? Leech. If anything, the Keyspammer is more productive than the gimp-ass level 90 with absolute shit gear and atma. If an entire alliance is made up of Leeches, either level 30 or 90, of course the alliance is going to fail. If the alliance has even a single non-leech player, the amount of leeches there won't matter at all.

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Obviously, those with the best gear and focus on task contribute the most damage, yet everyone benefits equally in experience points. But that does not mean that those who contribute less contribute nothing, which seems to be what you contend. An unequal symbiosis? I'll give you that, but calling a level 90 in full Aurora a leech is hyperbolic, just as hyperbolic as these mythical champions that everyone else just leeches off of. What bothers me are people who go AFK indefinately and nothing is done about it. That's leeching.

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

Old-way XPing vs. Abyssea leeching isn't climbing a mountain vs. taking an escalator to the top, as someone said on the previous page, it's more like carving your own snowboard out of fiberglass vs. buying one at the store. It doesn't matter how you got the snowboard (personal satisfaction notwithstanding--you can level however you want), what matters is what you do with it after you get it.

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Why bother leeching? Just buy accounts with real money, play with the jobs until you get bored, and then take up buying pre-built model airplanes as a hobby. After all, the point of model airplanes is having model airplanes, right?

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Originally Posted by Romanova

Here's an amazing thought. You don't like leechers? Make your own pts and don't allow them. Simple as that.

I actually came back to the game about 3 months ago, previously when I played abyssea wasn't out yet, and the cap was still 75.

Anyone who complains about this is being ridiculous. NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO HAVE LEECHERS. Also, abbysea pts go so insanely fast, they are not screwing up your xp in a way that you should complain. The fact you can even get more than one level a day is huge past 75 compared to the old ways.

And lol at old content is "dead". The only "dead" content are certain xp areas, and SE has already started reviving those areas with things like GoV, sky gear augments, etc. There are still tons of people who seek pts, and because of level sync there is nothing stopping you from making a party in the old areas.

Heck I've been doing that a lot lately, becuase I had no mage subjobs and decided I finally wanted to take rdm up. Not bothering to leech some jobs that only need to get to 45, and I rarely have to seek long before getting a regular pt.


Basically, this idea just takes away, and does nothing. No one is forcing you to leech, no one is forcing you to have them in your pt, no one is even forcing you to xp in abyssea at all.

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While you have points, the idea that you can simply ignore the fact that people are leeching and make your own EXP parties is a bit misleading.

A simple /sea all 30-75 during NA prime right now is pulling up 12 people across 45 levels LFP. Yeah, safe to say that PT wont be happening and you'll be soloing if you don't get the opportunity to leech.

You can't really close your eyes and pretend leeching hasn't basically killed off EXP the "old" way, regardless of how you feel about it. You either leech or you solo to 75 through FoV now. For anyone without the resources to leech to cap, you're stuck doing FoV/GoV - an epic grind alone.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

While you have points, the idea that you can simply ignore the fact that people are leeching and make your own EXP parties is a bit misleading.

A simple /sea all 30-75 during NA prime right now is pulling up 12 people across 45 levels LFP. Yeah, safe to say that PT wont be happening and you'll be soloing if you don't get the opportunity to leech.

You can't really close your eyes and pretend leeching hasn't basically killed off EXP the "old" way, regardless of how you feel about it. You either leech or you solo to 75 through FoV now. For anyone without the resources to leech to cap, you're stuck doing FoV/GoV - an epic grind alone.

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No friends to static with, eh?

Why should you need friends to do something as simple as EXP?

The game already had pretty much very few new players and whatever new players that happen to stumble upon this game are in for a whirl when they can't leech and have to solo the game to 75.

I know all the benefits of good leeching but ultimately it'll be the death of the game and no amount of FoV grindage will change that. Most of us are just happy to be able to cap a job for expediency sake but the health of the game is bound to suffer - just observe EXP alliances primarily made up of 4-6 AFKers hugging the Dominion Ops NPC.

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Originally Posted by Panthera

Why bother leeching? Just buy accounts with real money, play with the jobs until you get bored, and then take up buying pre-built model airplanes as a hobby. After all, the point of model airplanes is having model airplanes, right?

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leeching is free and not against the TOS, terrible example is terrible.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

A simple /sea all 30-75 during NA prime right now is pulling up 12 people across 45 levels LFP. Yeah, safe to say that PT wont be happening and you'll be soloing if you don't get the opportunity to leech.

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Bad luck is bad luck or new pts were just formed. As I said from a multitude of xp seeking over these past three months I have gotten parties faster than before. It only takes 6 people to form a party and level sync makes levels not an issue but the old issue of: tanks.

Really the complaint to lack of regular parties is because SE still has only given us 2 tank classes. If you got rid of abysea there maybe 309458435 people seeking in comparison, but the tank to dd ratio is still going to be way off, which is not the fault of abysea at all.


Again, I've had zero issue getting regular pts in a normal amount of time, and have gotten them faster than I did back in the old days.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

I know all the benefits of good leeching but ultimately it'll be the death of the game and no amount of FoV grindage will change that. Most of us are just happy to be able to cap a job for expediency sake but the health of the game is bound to suffer - just observe EXP alliances primarily made up of 4-6 AFKers hugging the Dominion Ops NPC.

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I like my alliances with 17 leeches.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

Really the complaint to lack of regular parties is because SE still has only given us 2 tank classes. If you got rid of abysea there maybe 309458435 people seeking in comparison, but the tank to dd ratio is still going to be way off, which is not the fault of abysea at all.

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Correct. And that was the fault of SE's, with decision to let the player base decide how jobs are played. Instead of defining 3~4 jobs as one's that could actually tank effectively, they decided to sweep all their old problems under the rug with Abyssea.

Utsusemi was somewhat to blame as well.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Correct. And that was the fault of SE's, with decision to let the player base decide how jobs are played. Instead of defining 3~4 jobs as one's that could actually tank effectively, they decided to sweep all their old problems under the rug with Abyssea.

Utsusemi was somewhat to blame as well.

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you are focusing your complaint in the wrong area. All that could have been solved either creating a new tank class or tweaking an old class so it can be an excellent tank. leechers/abysea is not the problem.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

you are focusing your complaint in the wrong area. All that could have been solved either creating a new tank class or tweaking an old class so it can be an excellent tank. leechers/abysea is not the problem.

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It is because it adds to the tank problem. Tanks are not needed inside Abyssea, and PLD being left in the dust just proves that. Nobody is going to deny that PLD is one of the most extinct classes inside Abyss.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

It is because it adds to the tank problem. Tanks are not needed inside Abyssea, and PLD being left in the dust just proves that. Nobody is going to deny that PLD is one of the most extinct classes inside Abyss.

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then they need to fix pld, not get rid of leechers....

you can't even focus anymore, you're just taking shots. smn bad? because abyssea! seals low drop? because abyssea! so on and so on.

You are just blaming everything on it, without taking an objective look as to where the real issues lie.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

then they need to fix pld, not get rid of leechers...

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I agreed with you on the first point, but you've missed my point. They need to do more than just 1 thing. They need to do several.

Fix PLD
Get rid of leechers
Add other Tank classes
Make "Tanking" Actually viable again.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

I agreed with you on the first point, but you've missed my point. They need to do more than just 1 thing. They need to do several.

Fix PLD
Get rid of leechers
Add other Tank classes
Make "Tanking" Actually viable again.

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they don't need to get rid of leechers though, and the way you post you act like the other problems are another reason to get rid of them.

Again, don't party with leechers if you don't like leechers.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

Again, don't party with leechers if you don't like leechers.

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I dont care if people wanna sit AFK, watch a movie while scarfing down some Hagen Daz ice cream and leech EXP in Abyss. I really don't care why anyone wants to leech or how they think it's a fun thing to do.

You are missing my point entirely.

Leeching affects me, because it allows the player base to skip over 80% of the content in the game. I want to experience that content and I want to be able to group up with people to do just that.