Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[HFX7686]

Oh, it's this thread again. I missed this thread.

I don't see the point of changing the level requirements now, such a long time after the first Abyssea expansion was released. Just don't play with people that did this if it offends you so much.

[hiko]

Excellent post. Why is this an excellent post you ask? Because it puts forth strong and valid points that should not be overlooked.

I was basically saying the same thing in my Original Post, that SE butchered their game completely. Forcing the cap to 70 or 75 would make the game last longer, be more enjoyable by exploring new area's and allow for people to actually skill up and learn their jobs before they hit max level.

Give us one good reason why they should NOT raise the cap up to 70 or 75, to enter Abyssea?... Because Avina and I just gave you several reasons why they should.

because lots of "new" account are returning players or HL players lvling an alt and most of em would'nt do it if they had to deal with old xp (they would loose more subscriber by raising cap)

A couple things. I do think that Abyssea has allowed for exactly what you have described to happen in some cases. But I have a pretty newbie friendly linkshell and I know that many of our own players have lamented that they want to actually play the game and not just stand around while they get exping. If they do get to 90 in this method, they then get told that they need to go and grind and skill up because they are worthless since they can't hit anything with their weapons or their magic spells are being resisted. Then they have to go and spam on monsters until they get useful. It's a sucky road.

Yes, having a linkshell as a returning or new player is key in order to get things done, but it was *not* required in order to go through the simple process of just leveling up as it is now. Before Abyssea came out did not do /sea all 1-60 invite to find people search for exp party. I could do /sea all 20-30 invite and get plenty of options, as could anyone other newbie looking to get some exp, and I personally preferred to not wait around for an invite so I often made my own parties so I spent very little time, if ever, standing around seeking.

if you have a "new player" LS why dont you just do LSPT to lvl up?
I did most than 75% of my first job with LS pt and that was way before you can lvl sync.

[noodles355]

Give us one good reason why they should NOT raise the cap up to 70 or 75, to enter Abyssea?... Because Avina and I just gave you several reasons why they should.

Because it takes extra programming, and achieves nothing important.

What, you think someone who's been abyssea leveled from 30-90 will be worse at their job than someone who leveled it "properly"? Sorry, no. Crap players will be crap players, good players will be good players, doesn't matter if it took them 2 months to reach Lv90 or 2 days. You don't need to slowly grind a job to "learn" it. Hell, A few weeks ago I leeched my Corsair to Lv90. I have solid melee and ranged TP sets, three different WS sets, quick draw set, idle/kiting sets, PDT and MDT sets, phantom roll and random deal sets, and so on and so forth. My Skills are capped (and merited), and my Cor specific abilities are fully merited. I'm a significantly better corsair than those who fulltime the same set of shit gear, even if they slowly leveled their job so they could "learn" how to play it. I will be more useful and output more damage when required than those players. I know when and how to Quick Draw, how to maximise it's damage. How to get the most out of my rolls, which rolls are the best for which situation, which SJ is the best for which situation. I basically know the job inside and out. Did I need to level slowly to learn that? Hell no.
And yesterday I leeched my warrior to 75. Later this week I will finish it up to Lv90. Again, I will be a much better Warrior than any of the shitty full-pearle Warriors, even if they "leveled slowly to learn the job". That's just that. I'll say it again: There are good players, there are bad players. It doesn't matter if they lvl a job in 2 months or 2 days, at Level 90 they will still be good players or bad players.

"be more enjoyable by exploring new area's"? You may find that enjoyable but not everyone else does. You're basically assuming that everyone will find the same things in FFXI enjoyable. That's a very bad assumption to make. This point is thus fairly irrelevant.

And guess what? A new player doesn't have to leech his job to 90 in abyssea. They are more than welcome to explore other zones and do FoV. You are also free to level how you want.

tl;dr:
You don't like it? Great, don't do it. Not everyone enjoys the same things.
The amount of time it takes to level a job does not affect how well a player will be at that job 95% of the time.
Protip: You learn a lot more about your job by reading sites like BlueGartr, Wiki, Allakhazam, etc and asking your linkshell or friends than you do by "leveling properly".

[Akujima]

"be more enjoyable by exploring new area's"? You may find that enjoyable but not everyone else does. You're basically assuming that everyone will find the same things in FFXI enjoyable. That's a very bad assumption to make. This point is thus fairly irrelevant.

And guess what? A new player doesn't have to leech his job to 90 in abyssea. They are more than welcome to explore other zones and do FoV. You are also free to level how you want.

tl;dr:
You don't like it? Great, don't do it. Not everyone enjoys the same things.
The amount of time it takes to level a job does not affect how well a player will be at that job 95% of the time.
Protip: You learn a lot more about your job by reading sites like BlueGartr, Wiki, Allakhazam, etc and asking your linkshell or friends than you do by "leveling properly".

Talk about Self Confidence.

So then why don't we make every zone look the same? Heck why are there even color tones in the game, I'm sure the game would be just as interesting if every character was the same height, same color and composed of crude easily thrown together pixels... Sheesh... It would save alot of time for the developers to actually make "useful content" than just trying to make things look nice, right? Corsairs shouldn't look like pirates, because you might enjoy that but I don't. So it's irrelevant that Jobs should be recognizable by certain distinguishable characteristics. So the same should be said for zones, ya?

Wanna know why WoW is popular? Because it forces players to level up by exploring new zones and area's. It forces you to go on an adventure, and not just fight the same mobs over and over again in the same zone. After you finish a quest, you can't do that quest again, and once you've reached a certain Level, no more quests in that area will give you enough EXP for it to be worthwhile to stay in that zone.

FFXI was like this before Abyssea, but now that's all changed.

SE should take a hint, and realize why people want to play an MMORPG: Because they like the idea of adventuring within a colorful fantasy world, and playing that adventure with other people online. But somehow MMO's turned into shopping malls for equipment, and all people care about is maximizing their DPS (ie, how big they can grow their epeen). It's sad to see that SE followed this way of thinking to the extreme.


And...


People called me a "noob" when I started leveling as a SAM/DRG Lv30 to Lv60, and I got kicked from a PT because I was a MNK/DRG at Lv41. Is that stuff on BG? Can you think outside the box and tell me how I figured out that /DRG is actually a nice subjob for low level melee, in a time when most everyone followed the cookie cutter /war or /nin?

I rocked face as DRK/DRG, MNK/DRG and SAM/DRG from Lv30 to Lv60, even against other people using the same jobs and were equally geared, but decided to sub /war or /nin. And I thought of it all without consulting any forum or anyone in game. I'm pretty sure I was one of the first people to popularize /DRG also, because 2 weeks after, I started to see an increase in wyvern earring sales.

MNK/DRG Lv41
Tropical Punches +1 (For 0 Delay and tons of Accuracy), Olibanum Sachet, Voyager Sallet, Peacock Charm, Cassie Earring, Wyvern Earring, Jujitsu Gi, Ochuido's Kote, Jaeger Ring (I don't like -20 DEF), Rajas Ring, Wyvern Mantle (+6 atk with /drg, best mantle for /drg before amemet+1), Brown Belt, Magna M Chausses (for some extra DEX and MP to throw at Cassie Earring), Fuma Kyahan.

The gear listed = 16% Haste at Lv41, A crap ton of needed accuracy for Raging Fists, and nice 0 delay weapons to swing even faster.

Food I used: Depended on the mob really, but usually it was Meat Mithkabobs.

Barely missed a swing, didn't even need madrigal or hunter's roll and pounded face like no other. Figured that all out by myself without consulting any website or anyone. And it was FUN to play.

[wish12oz]

The old way doesn't even exist anymore

The old way totally does exist still! I mean, I went and exped DNC yesterday from 1 to 30 in about 5 hours solo, that totally still counts as the old way cause I was in original and rotz zones, even a cop zone!

[Miiyo]

Why do you care so much about what other people are doing? Last night I ate food. I showered. I took a poop. Does any of that matter to you? Why do you want to restrict the way others play just so that they can be forced to join you in what you prefer to do. I do not think grinding is fun. I don't think it betters you at your job. Attacks are automatic. I won't be able to swing better or cast magic any better just because I grind. You have your ability to grind. Go grind! No one is stopping you. People go to abyssea at lower levels because they also don't want to grind. That's their business, just as your infatuation with grinding is your business. All abyssea did is provide a way to level more jobs. Learning your job is not dependent upon how you level. It's about how you comprehend your skills. Grind outside abyssea, or level up faster in abyssea. It's just an additional option. Nothing more.

[Miiyo]

Wanna know why WoW is popular? Because it forces players to level up by exploring new zones and area's. It forces you to go on an adventure, and not just fight the same mobs over and over again in the same zone. After you finish a quest, you can't do that quest again, and once you've reached a certain Level, no more quests in that area will give you enough EXP for it to be worthwhile to stay in that zone.

FFXI was like this before Abyssea, but now that's all changed.

You are delusional. I would put money that the 2 years right before abyssea was when the most people stopped playing. Everyone was fighting the same mobs. Exping in the same areas, and aiming for the same prizes. It was like, "why play when i can see 1000 other people have the same thing I'm aiming for." FFXI is a big world, but the PLAYERS chose which camps were "worthwhile." There was hardly any deviation from these as well. Mention trying to camp somewhere else and people ignore you. Not to mention sitting around screaming for a party for hours is NOT fun. It was a dead system that outlived itself. Since you find that fun however, feel free to shout in wg for a party. Since no one wants to do it anymore, you'll get the exciting thrill of shouting for a party forever with no success!!! Lucky you!

[Greatguardian]

Leeches are by definition, parasites. Leeches are detrimental to their host alliance by consuming a party slot that could go to a level 75 player. The effect is that for each leech, the ally is weaker than it would be if it had level +75 members. Kills are slower, and experience points per hour is less. While having a single chest-opener is necessary, it can be handled by a Bard or Corsair, who can handle the responsibility in-between buffs. Clearly, having a Bard do double Marches while handling chest opening is better for the Alliance than having a LV30 of any other job performing the same service, but at least the "leech" is doing *something* for the alliance. Where i have a real problem is when multiple people stand around doing nothing, or when they're "helping" with keys when one handle it without assistance.

Do-nothing leeching is unfair to alliance members because higher level members do all the work, the hasting, refreshing, curing, pulling, add controlling, and damage dealing while the leech blocks higher level members from joining. What's more, leeching is unfair to the leech himself as well. Leeching takes away from the accomplishment of gaining a level 90 job. Standing around and doing nothing and then saying,"I have a level 90 Black Mage" is just nothing to brag about. Further, it takes away from everyone else who has that same level 90 job. So what? if you have a level 90 Anything, because anyone can do it just by leeching. It's climbing to a mountain's summit that makes for fine stories, not resting there and enjoying the view.

You make the assumption that any half-decent level 90 DD+Mage combo can't full clear entire camps on their own. You don't need more than 5 people tops to make the absolute maximum EXP/hr available at any given camp, 3 of which are just going to be pulling nonstop.

If adding additional level 75+ adds absolutely nothing to the killspeed, adding additional level 30's subtracts absolutely nothing from the killspeed.

Leeches are parasites, whether they are level 30 or level 90. That 30brd keyspammer? Leech. That level 90 NIN in full aurore gear who doesn't gear swap and puts out 500 damage Jins? Leech. If anything, the Keyspammer is more productive than the gimp-ass level 90 with absolute shit gear and atma. If an entire alliance is made up of Leeches, either level 30 or 90, of course the alliance is going to fail. If the alliance has even a single non-leech player, the amount of leeches there won't matter at all.

[rog]

You don't need to slowly grind a job to "learn" it.

In fact, doing so can potentially HURT you, as you learn bad habits doing things that are good at low levels, but bad at higher levels. Not to mention you will definitely learn the job better playing it at level 90 than at level 30 doing nothing but auto attack and ws.

[Avina]

So why have experience points?

And I don't say this to sound snarky. I am genuinely confused why Square-Enix allows us to leech and burn things as they do, apparently since even they've taken the stance that exping is a waste of time, so why not just start everyone off at 90, they can unlock the jobs they want to play as on their own, get their own gear, since apparently they want the game to be blitzed.