[Dev 1009] Force Pop HNM's FTW

I do wonder if the pops will be made Rare. That would be interesting. It would certainly be easier if they were not.

Making the triggers rare/ex will just hinder people trying to acquire the items from the hnm's

All it will mean is when somebody is looking to buy an item.. they will have to drag along the seller... which will mean it sells for more.. because of the annoyance fee >:U

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Are you referring to them removing BB drops from NQ's?
*Edit: Saw they decreased it for kings, Thats fuck-stupid.

Yah that was retarded. but from the way the update notes sound, Each KSNM/NM has a chance to drop more than one pop (Says "At least 1"). So we could go do a KSNM99, and get 2 pops for Fafnir, Kill faf and get 2 pops for Nid, multiplying your chances to pop him exponentially.

For those people without kindred seals when the update roles around, Its gunna suck. But you have about ~20 days to go farm some Kindred seals lol, Go Solo some Fields of Valor for a bit. Get some pops ready before the update :P



People sell EX items all the time. You buy the Lotting rights essentially.

For instance, Someone selling Byakko's Haidate, They'd kill the NM, if it drops, You pay them, Lot item.

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you have any idea how low drop rate is for egg already in the ksnm? no idea what it is like for NM then you tack on the time farming for KS ( i do not see meny of these in abyssea, where people only do events)

I have to say old way would give you a better chance of getting items then this way I really question if they play this game at all.

I have to say this update note has to be the most stupid one I seen yet.

You guys realise they will use this system for the new HNM and crests right? XD

New BCNM with crests > force pop HNM.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

You guys realise they will use this system for the new HNM and crests right? XD

New BCNM with crests > force pop HNM.

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did you read the BCNM names? those are 99 KS seals BCs not those.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

you have any idea how low drop rate is for egg already in the ksnm? no idea what it is like for NM then you tack on the time farming for KS ( i do not see meny of these in abyssea, where people only do events)

I have to say old way would give you a better chance of getting items then this way I really question if they play this game at all

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Think you're being entirely too pessimistic. We don't know how much they decreased drop rate on the Kings. It could literally be ~20% less %, Still giving us a high high chance.

I don't deny this could have been handled much better, But in the end i think for the majority of players, it will turn out to be a positive.

Admittedly there will be several who are screwed by it... Like apparently you yourself, since you don't have any Kindred seals or friends at all. (apparently, Only basing this off you saying it would basically be impossible for you to get it now)

i dont like it ><

I like the idea of a forced spawn but the removal of the BB items off of the KSNM and NQ fights means u basically have to kill 3 times the NMs b4 u get a chance at one of the only things that made the fight worth doing (theres a few other drops worth trying for but not many).


Leave the BB drops alone on the KSNM and NQ PLEASE. If u must lower the HQ boss's drop rate on it fine. But please dont completely butcher it either (30% not 5%)

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Think you're being entirely too pessimistic. We don't know how much they decreased drop rate on the Kings. It could literally be ~20% less %, Still giving us a high high chance.

I don't deny this could have been handled much better, But in the end i think for the majority of players, it will turn out to be a positive.

Admittedly there will be several who are screwed by it... Like apparently you yourself, since you don't have any Kindred seals or friends at all. (apparently, Only basing this off you saying it would basically be impossible for you to get it now)

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It is SE, past track record + these notes = shit

I am up for changing this crap but this is very bad ....

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Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung

i dont like it ><

I like the idea of a forced spawn but the removal of the BB items off of the KSNM and NQ fights means u basically have to kill 3 times the NMs b4 u get a chance at one of the only things that made the fight worth doing (theres a few other drops worth trying for but not many).


Leave the BB drops alone on the KSNM and NQ PLEASE. If u must lower the HQ boss's drop rate on it fine. But please dont completely butcher it either (30% not 5%)

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They never mentioned removing BB items from the KSNMs, Just the NQs (And reduced rate at HQ's)

I think Removing/Editing Drop rate on the BB items was stupid as hell, But we really won't know how horribly it was effected (for Kings) until the update.

So long as the kings Don't get the drop rate of the NQ's in terms of BB i think it'll even out. If they do... Well... Yah, This entire thing was screwed.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

then you tack on the time farming for KS

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This is actually what concerns me about this change.. The rest I think I'm okay with. This though is kinda irritating, as something like 99 seals could take awhile to farm up.. which by itself wouldn't hurt as much except it's also couple with the lowered drop rate of the BB items. I sort of wish it were one or the other, both do seem kind of like a punch in the gut.

But.. the lowered droprate might not be as significant as we think.. And if that's the case, eh.

Lol- You guys got exactly what you asked for. Why are people crying now? You blew up these forums for reasons to exp outside abyssea, to change land HNM, to make black belt HNMs easier to claim. SE just gave you exactly what you wanted all rolled into one nice little bundle. So take your toons outside abyssea <like you made multiple threads for> farm your kses, and have fun spamming for hnm pops. <with shittier drop rates for BB lol> God i love SE!

Glad i never did KS99 for a long time. I still have a KS99 orb sitting in storage and 600+ KS so maybe I can try to get the BB items and possibly sell my orb pops or the pop items to those unfortunate souls who used up all their KSs.

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did you read the BCNM names? those are 99 KS seals BCs not those.

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I'm saying they will make all new BCNM's that you enter with an orb given from collecting kindred crests which will them give you a pop item for the new HNM they showed. I know what this is for but don't you think they will use this same system on the new HNM when everyone was worried about botting and given they put a lot of effort into designing a new system?

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Originally Posted by Rambus

It is SE, past track record + these notes = shit

I am up for changing this crap but this is very bad ....

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Again, i admit it could have been handled so so so so so much better. But I'll remain cautiously optimistic, until i see what the drop rate on BB items are like from the kings.

If its reduced Excessively, I'll probably join the "Fk everyone" group, then move on with my life as most of these NMs are worthless outside of BB Items.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

I'm saying they will make all new BCNM's that you enter with an orb given from collecting kindred crests which will them give you a pop item for the new HNM they showed. I know what this is for but don't you think they will use this same system on the new HNM when everyone was worried about botting and given they put a lot of effort into designing a new system?

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They said the Pop item You'd get would be traded to an ??? in the zones they spawn.

I.E Get Fafnir's pop from KSNM99, go pop Fafnir in Dragon's Aery.

They aren't creating entirely new Systems for them. If that's what you're getting at :|

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Originally Posted by Rambus

It is SE, past track record + these notes = shit

I am up for changing this crap but this is very bad ....

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Recent Track Record + These Notes = Final Fantasy XI Development Team actually listened to the Official Forums. Players will now have to choose between leeching in Abyssea, and EXP'ing normally to amass Kindred Seals for Kings. Don't tell me people are no longer in favor of buffing overworld EXP when it has side effects which make a portion of the game more tedious?

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Originally Posted by Yarly

R/Ex is not synonymous with unsellable. But you're probably going to label people who sell r/ex drops cheaters or something, right?

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If the stuff is designed not to be saleable, yes -- as it controverts the intended use of the item.

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Originally Posted by Krisan

This is actually what concerns me about this change.. The rest I think I'm okay with. This though is kinda irritating, as something like 99 seals could take awhile to farm up.. which by itself wouldn't hurt as much except it's also couple with the lowered drop rate of the BB items. I sort of wish it were one or the other, both do seem kind of like a punch in the gut.

But.. the lowered droprate might not be as significant as we think.. And if that's the case, eh.

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the egg in the KSNM is fucking shit, then it would be lower????????

the beard is who cares seems like it drops every other one, the egg is a fucking pita though.

I am not sure about tongue.

This is a bad system because of the 99 KS, if it was less time to compensate the lower drops i can see giving it a chance but this is a big NO! atm with how it is stated.

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Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung

i dont like it ><

I like the idea of a forced spawn but the removal of the BB items off of the KSNM and NQ fights means u basically have to kill 3 times the NMs b4 u get a chance at one of the only things that made the fight worth doing (theres a few other drops worth trying for but not many).


Leave the BB drops alone on the KSNM and NQ PLEASE. If u must lower the HQ boss's drop rate on it fine. But please dont completely butcher it either (30% not 5%)

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I see nowhere on the development thread that they said they're removing BB items from the KSNM.

This aside, I don't see why people are so upset. You might actually have to put in a little work to get something. That's like... terrible, right? Plus this is probably an overall better chance in the long run. And I gotta agree with GG, this will definitely open up non-Abyssea XPing again!

And for those who think they have escaped the bots finally. Im pretty sure a bot can be made to trade to the ??? (if one doesnt exist alredy)

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Players will now have to choose between leeching in Abyssea, and EXP'ing normally to amass Kindred Seals for Kings.

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Never much considered it a choice myself, could never stand the idea of leeching in Abyssea.. Plus the world exp change was dramatic enough recently that I genuinely don't see the problem with doing it "the old way" anymore.. I have a lot to work on actually, as I was batshit enough to create a brand new character here recently to level. I imagine I'll probably have a nice little stash of seals by the time he catches up to my main.

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They aren't creating entirely new Systems for them. If that's what you're getting at :|

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Yeah but it still took the devs days/weeks having long discussions to figure this system, so I'm pretty sure they will use it again for the new HNM.

For people complaining about removing them from NQ and the BCNM, they increased the level cap making all these fights weak as c**p, you think they should retain drops that used to take upto an alliance to kill for? Especially since they are still very much wanted gear.

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And for those who think they have escaped the bots finally. Im pretty sure a bot can be made to trade to the ??? (if one doesnt exist alredy)

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lolno, maybe for the first week or two this will be an issue but not after that lol

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Originally Posted by Rambus

the egg in the KSNM is fucking shit, then it would be lower????????

the beard is who cares seems like it drops every other one, the egg is a fucking pita though.

I am not sure about tongue.

This is a bad system because of the 99 KS, if it was less time to compensate the lower drops i can see giving it a chance but this is a big NO! atm with how it is stated.

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They said nothing about lowering the drop rates for the KSNM's as far as i know, just for Kings and removed from NQs.

Over all i think the adjusting of BB item drop rate on NQ/Kings was retardedly back-peddling the entire idea of this update, But I don't think we can FULLY judge it until we know how bad the drop rate on the Kings were nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

I see nowhere on the development thread that they said they're removing BB items from the KSNM.

This aside, I don't see why people are so upset. You might actually have to put in a little work to get something. That's like... terrible, right? Plus this is probably an overall better chance in the long run. And I gotta agree with GG, this will definitely open up non-Abyssea XPing again!

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you hever do the KSNMs? egg rarely drops, i think i used 3 ksnm orbs my self on it, helped a lot of other people in ls and i seen like 2 drop ever out of the 20-30 i did.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

the egg in the KSNM is fucking shit, then it would be lower????????

the beard is who cares seems like it drops every other one, the egg is a fucking pita though.

I am not sure about tongue.

This is a bad system because of the 99 KS, if it was less time to compensate the lower drops i can see giving it a chance but this is a big NO! atm with how it is stated.

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Don't freak out so badly man, I was actually trying to validate your concerns there if you didn't notice. I just said that we don't know yet how much it was lowered - and that yea, if it is any kind of significant decrease then I agree with you completely. They're a low enough drop already, I've helped LS mates in the past with them.. it's painful stuff.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

you hever do the KSNMs? egg rarely drops, i think i used 3 ksnm orbs my self on it, helped a lot of other people in ls and i seen like 2 drop ever out of the 20-30 i did.

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Yah, that pretty much falls in line with my assumption of 10% drop rate :P

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Originally Posted by Rambus

you hever do the KSNMs? egg rarely drops, i think i used 3 ksnm orbs my self on it, helped a lot of other people in ls and i seen like 2 drop ever out of the 20-30 i did.

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Dude, you're really not reading this right. They are not lowering the drop rate inside the KSNM. It stays the same, only you also get a pop for the NQ turtle, which drops a pop for the HQ turtle, which can also drop Egg. This only lowers your chances of getting BB items if you camp HNMs, or buy the drops from the camped HNMs.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

They said nothing about lowering the drop rates for the KSNM's as far as i know, just for Kings and removed from NQs.

Over all i think the adjusting of BB item drop rate on NQ/Kings was retardedly back-peddling the entire idea of this update, But I don't think we can FULLY judge it until we know how bad the drop rate on the Kings were nerfed.

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Yeah it didn't sound to me either that the KSNM drops were lowered. I actually think I know why they did it this way, but it's pretty retarded thinking. I believe "back-peddling" is actually a very nice way of putting it, but meh.. We'll see.

Only problem I see with this is it's SE's typical give and take type system.

We'll give you easier to pop NMs, but you'll have to go through hoops of fire to do so.

We'll let you pop an NM path you want but you need to take pictures first.

We'll let you pop even more NMs using a KI, but you have to go to x,y,z zone and pop them in tiers, oh and they can spawn as shadow meaning no drops.

So yeah, change is cool but the pop items for example coulda been simple and to the point like Abyssea's, but it does get people out of abyssea so I'm happy.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Dude, you're really not reading this right. They are not lowering the drop rate inside the KSNM. It stays the same, only you also get a pop for the NQ turtle, which drops a pop for the HQ turtle, which can also drop Egg. This only lowers your chances of getting BB items if you camp HNMs, or buy the drops from the camped HNMs.

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Or, of course, if you don't have a group or the seals to do KSNMs with.

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Originally Posted by Krisan

Don't freak out so badly man, I was actually trying to validate your concerns there if you didn't notice. I just said that we don't know yet how much it was lowered - and that yea, if it is any kind of significant decrease then I agree with you completely. They're a low enough drop already, I've helped LS mates in the past with them.. it's painful stuff.

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my point I was trying to get across is that it is too low with the way things ARE. so any kind of drop lowering makes it even more intolerable.

keep in mind i am only talking about egg, the beard ends up on the ground from trying to get speed belts lol.

I have no clue on tongue, do that the lest, do not remember seeing it drop off my orb though

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Only problem I see with this is it's SE's typical give and take type system.

We'll give you easier to pop NMs, but you'll have to go through hoops of fire to do so.

We'll let you pop an NM path you want but you need to take pictures first.

We'll let you pop even more NMs using a KI, but you have to go to x,y,z zone and pop them in tiers, oh and they can spawn as shadow meaning no drops.

So yeah, change is cool but the pop items for example coulda been simple and to the point like Abyssea's, but it does get people out of abyssea so I'm happy.

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It's an MMO, duh? This will still be better than the previous system, far far more people will get to fight them than ever before.

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my point I was trying to get across is that it is too low with the way things ARE. so any kind of drop lowering makes it even more intolerable.

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Don't do it then, brown belt is more than good enough for everything you want to kill in lolabyssea.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Only problem I see with this is it's SE's typical give and take type system.

We'll give you easier to pop NMs, but you'll have to go through hoops of fire to do so.

We'll let you pop an NM path you want but you need to take pictures first.

We'll let you pop even more NMs using a KI, but you have to go to x,y,z zone and pop them in tiers, oh and they can spawn as shadow meaning no drops.

So yeah, change is cool but the pop items for example coulda been simple and to the point like Abyssea's, but it does get people out of abyssea so I'm happy.

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If the pops were as easy to get as they are in Abyssea, I think there would be an entirely different type of Crying on these forums.

but trust me, There woulds till be complaining :\

People will always complain. Its usually because those people who are like "SWEET, this Update rocks" are probably sitting behind their computer not bothering to type it because of all the "Negative" responses, they don't wanna get in a huge flame war with someone because they think its a good update, and the other guy doesn't.

So we mostly see people complaining, and a few people saying its good.

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Originally Posted by Daremo

Or, of course, if you don't have a group or the seals to do KSNMs with.

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You can farm KS solo if you have to, or you can EXP a new job outside Abyssea! Also, you can shout to form groups since all the KS99s can be done with like 4-6 people tops at 90. I'm fairly sure at least the KB/Wyrm have been solo'd too.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

If the pops were as easy to get as they are in Abyssea, I think there would be an entirely different type of Crying on these forums.

but trust me, There woulds till be complaining :\

People will always complain. Its usually because those people who are like "SWEET, this Update rocks" are probably sitting behind their computer not bothering to type it because of all the "Negative" responses, they don't wanna get in a huge flame war with someone because they think its a good update, and the other guy doesn't.

So we mostly see people complaining, and a few people saying its good.

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I think this update rocks. Seriously, this is the bomb. I've had a Black Belt for years, I'm not even mayad that they're making it easier to get. All this means is I can farm up some Nlegs for my buddy's CDC set without worrying about Einherjar or 3am Nid camping.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

If the pops were as easy to get as they are in Abyssea, I think there would be an entirely different type of Crying on these forums.

but trust me, There woulds till be complaining :\

People will always complain. Its usually because those people who are like "SWEET, this Update rocks" are probably sitting behind their computer not bothering to type it because of all the "Negative" responses, they don't wanna get in a huge flame war with someone because they think its a good update, and the other guy doesn't.

So we mostly see people complaining, and a few people saying its good.

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Man, you seem to have some of the most sensible posts I've seen on here. Yeah, I'd say that's very true.

I agree that there needed to be changes to the Nms but the method said here seems totally backwards to me. If this were 2 or more years ago then probably would be outstanding, but with the progressing of this game i feel like this is making it even HARDER to get the desired items.
I myself have seen Nidhogg, Aspid, and KB all unclaimed walking around several times on my server in the past few months.

Simple fact is people arnt going to farm KSs for these bc's and they wont be done after the first month of spamming what ks's everyone has, the only way this would be good is if the droprate for defending ring and ridill were increased.

My suggestion would be to switch it from KS to KC so its relevant to current play styles.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You can farm KS solo if you have to, or you can EXP a new job outside Abyssea!

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I need some auto delevel feature, killing my self 1 000 000 times while setting HP in cape will take too long

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Originally Posted by Rorald

I agree that there needed to be changes to the Nms but the method said here seems totally backwards to me. If this were 2 or more years ago then probably would be outstanding, but with the progressing of this game i feel like this is making it even HARDER to get the desired items.
I myself have seen Nidhogg, Aspid, and KB all unclaimed walking around several times on my server in the past few months.

Simple fact is people arnt going to farm KSs for these bc's and they wont be done after the first month of spamming what ks's everyone has, the only way this would be good is if the droprate for defending ring and ridill were increased.

My suggestion would be to switch it from KS to KC so its relevant to current play styles.

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That is my thinking, I really do not understand "this update rocks" when it really sounds a step back, not forward.

Before abyssea ya maybe it would of been good, but now? -.-

I need to scout these NMs maybe i can get egg before this craptasic update.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I think this update rocks. Seriously, this is the bomb. I've had a Black Belt for years, I'm not even mayad that they're making it easier to get. All this means is I can farm up some Nlegs for my buddy's CDC set without worrying about Einherjar or 3am Nid camping.

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Need to find myself a pair of Cursed Subligar -1 for my THF's WS set >.>;;

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

What? Really? No one's super happy that there's a reason for people to EXP outside Abyssea from 40-75 again? What's going on? I thought it was like a supermajority of players that wanted some sort of added incentive to EXP normally. This is, like, as big an incentive as they could give.

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I'm actually convinced people are complaining because it forces them to work without their beloved atma.