I disagree with the sentiment that salvage bans did not take out a lot of high level players. 2/3rds of my friends list were either banned by salvage bans or quit in response to the fact that their friends were banned. The only reason I was not banned is because I left my salvage group one week before they started duping (my entire salvage ls was banned aside from the two members who left the shell before it started duping). I watched 3 of the prominent end-game shells on asura crumble because of salvage bans. I don't know how much these bannings culled RMT activity but they definitely reduced the end-game population on asura by quite a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
-
04-02-2011, 06:57 AMHoshi
-
04-02-2011, 08:39 AMGlamdring
Leave the restrictions in place. I hate RMT and it doesn't take THAT long for legitimate players to get to be able to garden
-
04-02-2011, 09:17 AMRambusdid you read my post? it can try to effect RMT all it wants but it does not stop RMT or make RMT happen any less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
all it does is have less gil thus higher prices for gil.
No these countermeasures are meaningless, get rid of them. They harm real players and the entry of new players then it does to rmt.
I am talking about the cap of sending gil in the mail and other such "countermeasures" i do not know about.
Like that rep tp replay to my post and show the STF/ DEV team the truth
http://killingifrit.com/forums/topic...-hate-friends/Quote:
I went for a taru this time. Chaz, my friend I hate so much, gave me 100k to get started. He bought me a pair of astrals (you know, because taru have 50 HP to be giving up early on) and a couple pieces of noob gear. He probably spent 200k on gear. I'm in the game for 3 days, am told about Abyssea, purchase both expansions, and THEN I come home to being banned the next day for RMT activities.
RMT are bad but SE does not do RMT countermeasures in the right way like what this topic is about. if you cannot do it right do not do it at all.
Get rid of these in game program countermeasures, they do nothing, they harm real players more then RMT.
If you want to know how to do free trails look what WoW does, No need just to get rid of it -
04-02-2011, 02:35 PMStarcade
The only way you can really get to the point where you could remove the restrictions is to end what has been the single most RMT-enabling thing in the game: The Free Trial itself.
-
04-02-2011, 02:39 PMRambus
I take you don't know what it is like on wow's trail
you cannot send tells ( only replay to them)
you cannot send party invites ( maybe? not sure been a while)
you cannot trade people or accpet trades.
sounds pretty anti rmt to me.
since wow does not have gardening you can toss that in there too i guess, gil limit, so on. ( think wow had some gold cap too was not a lot be like holding 10k or 100k gil) -
04-02-2011, 03:30 PMAlhanelemMaybe "2/3s" of your friends list were either dupers or angry that friends didn't get away with it, but your personal friend list does not represent the majority of your server's population. For every salvage group that cheated, there were several that didn't.Quote:
I disagree with the sentiment that salvage bans did not take out a lot of high level players. 2/3rds of my friends list were either banned by salvage bans or quit in response to the fact that their friends were banned.
Further, the only way these people could have had an impact on RMT activity is if they were RMT customers, which itself is also a violation of the terms of service and grounds for banning.
It's not like these rules were alien and unkown to anyone. None of these people had anyone to blame for breaking the rules but themselves. But again, these people are a minority. Any smart person who cared about their own account would have realized after the first time it happened that "hmm, breaking an alliance in salvage duplicates items. That's probably not intended. Maybe I shouldn't do that."
They've already done that. At least, on official channels. The retail game site (e.g. the flash site that encourages people to buy the game) used to have a prominently displayed free trial button. That link is gone and I can't see any way to get a free trial key. So as far as I can tell, the 2 week free trial no longer exists. All there is now is the 30 day free period with a new account.Quote:
The only way you can really get to the point where you could remove the restrictions is to end what has been the single most RMT-enabling thing in the game: The Free Trial itself.
-
04-02-2011, 04:56 PMGlobalVariableA suggestion: check the age of the account rather than the age of the character. RMT mainly used trial accounts for gardening didn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
I noticed that at least on my server a lot of people who were banned had spare accounts "just in case". So it was like nothing happened to them. They had no serious attachment to the character they lost and just spent the day after complaining on their alts. Some even knew of some method of hiding salvage gear they had duped on alts and I reported the method to the STF. Can still find webstes describing how to use malformed packets to pull it off with a quick google search. So yeah, accounts got banned..But most of the same people came right back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoshi
-
04-03-2011, 02:53 AMRambusYou are very ignorant, you where not on asura. I was actally when that happened. I think all the major ls broke or fell but one, witch would be chorma, an EU engame ls. The game felt so empty after those bans it was not funny. the person you quoted is correct, do not sit here acting like most people did not get effected, it hurt and effected a LOT of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
you can sit here and say "cheaters got what they diservered" all you want, but i disagree with what SE did with savage and the impact it had on the comuinty.
the game would not be such in a dieing state if SE did not ban anyone ( including the mass xmas RMT bannings)
if you only want to be on one server with 2000 people because SE bans everyone that uses windower be my guest, not something i want.
I will say it again, get rid of all these worthless "countermeasures" all they do is hurt real people, does little to curve RMT, all it does is make prices per gil higher cuz they can't get as much.
give back the 2 week trial with the resistions wow does and everyone will be happier. -
04-03-2011, 03:41 AMKomori
It's not to go without mentioning that the Goblin Bots ruined a great deal of EXP camps (why people intially started leaving the dunes and qufim etc.) And RMT could just level themselves to get around it.
-
04-03-2011, 05:03 AMAlhanelemSo are you saying Asura was the Cheaters, Botters, and Dupers server? Not a place I'd want to be.Quote:
You are very ignorant, you where not on asura.
I'm not ignorant. You are making the problem out to be many times worse than it really was. People banned were a minority, plain and simple, no matter what server you were on (unless, as you suggested, Asura is where all the cheaters congregated).
But the long and short of this is banning cheaters is not a countermeasure against RMT, nor did it have a drastic long term effect on the player population.
The game would be in a MORE dying state if SE did not ban anyone. If people thought and knew they could get away with duping and such, everyone would be doing it and then it would be impossible for legit people to enjoy the game. Then those people would leave and all that would be left are the cheaters. Banning a few people for breaking the rules is better than no one being able to enjoy the game because those people weren't banned.
When you sign up for the game you agree to the rules they set forth. If you break them, you pay the price. -
04-03-2011, 07:44 AMRambusWhy you think i left? and not just botters and cheaters, MPK and greifers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I am not making the situation worse than it is, I am stating the truth, this is why i called you ignorant. I do not like to name call but you are giving me no choice.
1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of
No, the game would be more active if SE did not do anything or did other measures to fight RMT.
instead of banning people left and right for numbers they could of found ways to find botters, greifers, link botting ( some RMT play 5 chrs at once that all follow each other to level)
there is plenty of ways to only target RMT/target people that need to be banned.
SE took the route of "lets hit everyone that looks like RMT"
You know those charts, numbers, so on, that they flashed in fount of your face? it was just a ploy to make you think they actually did something. They had no issue letting botters play.
game would be in a better state if SE did nothing VS the actions they did.
I would of prefer SE not to do nothing, but it is apparent SE does not know how to fight RMT properly so doing nothing would been an improvement.
See this thread for example THIS IS NOT A COUNTERMESURE to fight RMT. All it does is herm real players.
You are right, people should be banned for breaking the rules. If SE did that we would not have so many people that harass people, stalk people, scam people, BOT, mob steal, and MPK
But SE does not do that, they let some people brake the rules and allow them to still play ( botters/ harassers) but turn around and do mass bans that shouldn’t never take place
you want SE to ban everyone that broke a rule?
You have 1000 people on one server then. ( I would be one of those 1000, I have never used windower or anything. I am sick of being made fun of for saying windower brakes ToS and I am gimp for not using it)
I would find it very interesting to see SE ban everyone that used windorer.
You cannot handle the truth.
comeone Camate like a replay, I want to know what you think of what really goes on. -
04-03-2011, 09:17 AMSeriha
Sorry, but if someone duped, they deserved what they got. And no, these people were not the lifeblood of FFXI no matter how close a friend you might've been to them.
Moral of this story? If you find a bug, report it. Not keep it a secret and profit to the tune of millions of gil or triplicating the amount of items entering the game. -
04-03-2011, 09:22 AMAlhanelemI am not lacking knowledge or awareness in general, nor am I uneducated or unsophisticated. Thanks for showing me that though.Quote:
1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
You gave your viewpoints through the perspective of your specific server. I am giving them from mine, and the fact that they are both different should be a signal to you that any one server is not an accurate representation of the total population. Each server is different, with different people who do different things. That said, no matter how you want to say it, not even the entirety of everyone who did salvage on a regular basis constitutes a majority of any group of players. There are many "prominent" players who never did salvage, or did not do so regularly. "Prominent" players make up a very tiny percentage of the total population. Even banning a "large number" of them does not substantially affect the total population.
I cannot handle your "truth" because it's not the truth.Quote:
You cannot handle the truth.
A few pro players does not represent the entire playerbase. -
04-03-2011, 09:32 AMRambusI was talking about total player base... that was just an example. so yes you fit that word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
oh wait when did the server merges start? was it 6 moths or so after that? hmm
on top of the CC bans and gardening bans? oh yeah gardening, the ability to charge you, muling, and gift giving warrants a ban!
and ill ask you again, you want everyone baned that violated the tos correct? -
04-03-2011, 10:32 AMAlhanelemYou're delusional if you think the salvage bannings caused the playerbase to decline.Quote:
oh wait when did the server merges start? was it 6 moths or so after that? hmm
1) FFXI is an old game
2) It has reached many of its limits in terms of adaptability, upgradability and expandability
3) It was at it's peak long before the salvage bannings
4) It was already declining at the time of them
The number of people who were banned or quit because of the bannings is tiny compared to the number of people who quit or left for other reasons. Many people have left simply because they've been here for years and they've moved on to other things. It's a fact of any MMO that lasts this long. Circumstancial evidence is not useful or helpful and is not admissible in courts for those reasons. You are implying correlation where there is no provable connection.
So let me spell it out one more time. Salvage. Bannings. Are. Not. A. Significant. Cause. Of. The. Decrease. In. Population.
It entirely depends on the violation, and if it can be conclusively proven that a violation actually took place. I know where you're going with this- "So they should ban everyone who ever used windower?" Answer: Possibly, but there is no way to conclusively prove anyone's use of windower -- other than their own admission -- which does not violate privacy laws of various countries (e.g. they'd have to search your computer).Quote:
and ill ask you again, you want everyone baned that violated the tos correct?
Anyone who shared credit cards or addresses or any other personal information amongst several people to purchase/pay for the game yes indeed should be banned. If you want to play, get your own account information and payment method. If you can't do that, find another game.
Gardening: I don't know the specifics of what happened, but if anyone was exploting a bug or doing anything that was unintended by the developers intentionally and for their own gain, yes, they should have been banned.
Smaller population of people you can play with fairly > larger population full of cheaters/botters/exploiters.
Edit: Man, by the way, when it comes to ninja editing posts, you're a worse offender than I've ever been. -
04-03-2011, 10:40 AMRambushave fun on having 1000 people on one server then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
so with that logic you have to be selective, where do you draw the line?
if you cannot be fair with that line do not ban anyone ( this is where I will place SE)
SE banned way to meny people that should not have been, that was the downfall of the game, not age. -
04-03-2011, 10:41 AMAlhanelemIndeed I will. Thanks for the kind wishes.Quote:
have fun on having 1000 people on one server then.
It's not about "being selective." Different violations warrant different punishments. -
04-03-2011, 11:08 AMRambusThis is true, normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
but you cannot ban one guy for botting, temp ban the next and never touch a 3rd botter and ban the 4th guy that had nothing to do with it.
You cannot ban people that do nothing wrong.
Look at this thread for example. punishment real players VS RMT. RMT may not make as much, RMT may find different outlets but it does not stop RMT. It may slow the gil gain of RMT but all that does is make the dollar of gil to go up.
SE in their countermeasures has been punishing real players more then RMT. They focus was on trades and such vs getting botters and camp harassment. I got to tell you I care more about that RMT harassment then the effect on the market. It will balance out on its own, but that harassment? Wasting your time camping cuz RMT or real player botted claim? That cannot be fixed.
You know what i would do if i had power doing those savage bans? delete the gear that was gained by the "cheating"
even if you hit some people that got it ligitmently they would have their account and cotunie playing.
not have this ripple effect that killed 1/10 of the overall playerbase. -
04-03-2011, 11:31 AMbungiefan
Not having cruor to join an Abyssea party isn't such a big deal. I've still seen people actually solving the puzzles for the chests in parties on Ragnarok when they were lacking in cruor. You just turn on all the chat log filters for battle actions, since you aren't participating in battle and that leaves you room to see the clues. After a couple of cruor chests, you have keys for time extension chests when you are otherwise going to fail the puzzle. I have seen people speed through the puzzles as fast as we can generate them with worthwhile contents.
As for the gil issue... I'm still having money problems for scrolls as a 90 BLM, there's a few I haven't bought yet. My other mage jobs are mostly below 30, with WHM at 57 and SCH at 49 not having bought a scroll since Dispel. Spells still cost a lot of gil from NPCs, and even at a 2-2.3 gil per cruor exchange via the Teal, Perle, and Aurore armor sets (the 3000 cruor pieces give this return, the more expensive pieces only give a 1.5 gil/cruor exchange), I'm not making enough gil to afford everything from the NPCs. Leveling another job that eats scrolls is almost unthinkable for me right now, and I know people with a couple hundred million gil with nothing to spend it on. Only food, tools, ammo, and scrolls seem to be things to spend gil on anymore.
In my 8.5 years of playing, I've never reached 500,000 gil on my character. I've only broken 200k a couple of times, trying to level BLM as my main. Gil is even harder to earn, excepting doing it via Abyssea by cruor exchange, than it has ever been for me before. I can only imagine what it is like for someone starting new completely. NPC shops are the only source for a lot of gear now, especially for levels 20-75, since the AH has dried up with people not needing gil so much anymore. I've donated about 10-20k to friends I've had starting new, when I've had it to spare.
You don't get a lot of the gil back for gear you have leveled past when you sell to an NPC, and you can't earn a lot of it until you can get cruor, compared to the current NPC prices things go for. How am I supposed to handle a 10k+ scroll every level or two as a mage with just quest rewards? Now at 90 I'm looking at 100-200k per scroll, and they only drop in Abyssea pyxides, they aren't sold by NPCs. -
04-03-2011, 11:54 AMSeriha
SE banned roughly 550 people for the Salvage dupes, suspending another 400 temporarily. Spread amongst the, what, 32 servers at the time? That'd be roughly 18 banned and 13 suspended per server. Hardly the beginning of the game's decline, let alone a cause.
Meanwhile, you can't correlate gardening, or even the temporary restriction of it, to this. In part you can blame free trials for the creation of unlimited mules, but as I noted earlier, the ability to create more gil via NPC sales than what it cost to begin the process was the ultimate issue. This isn't a bug or dupe, merely a balancing oversight. It happens. I can't say I'm for the subsequent suspension of the trials that this likely led to, either, no matter how some may reason "It's just a few bucks to get the game!" over Steam over wherever. It just reeks of SE not making the proper fix at the time.
Otherwise, players need to utilize some common sense when it comes to something being off. Nowhere else in the game could dissolving your alliance at certain periods lead to the same items in each treasure pool. There is nothing of this "feature" spoken of in official manuals or tutorials. No doubt, I can see the temptation for exploiting this given Salvage's shoddy effort:reward ratio, but c'mon. It's duping. Duh.
Regardless, the downside of laying out rules is when it comes time to enforce them. Would simply deleting the items have been a sufficient lesson? No. Acquisition is a cumulative process, here. The more they got, the more they could dupe. The more duped, the more outfitted and in turn able to sell excess. Once you start getting to gil, the process becomes far more murky and they gain the ability to tap into other things that a fat wallet would've allowed like buying currency for relics/mythics or merc'ing out other goods. In turn, this act potentially affected the entire server. The message SE conveyed with the bans was simple. It's unfortunate some still feel these policies shouldn't apply to them, feigning innocence or hiding behind the whole "nobody likes a snitch" mentality. -
04-03-2011, 12:15 PMAlhanelemI never said I completely agree with how it was handled. My main issue is that it took too long for the problem to be addressed, thus leaving too wide a window open for people to be subject to sanctions. I agree that removing items would have been a decent solution. But the problem is, with duped items, one of the copies was obtained legitimately. But how do you determine which one? either way you go, the other person is going to say theirs is the "real" one. So you either delete them all, or you have to take a different action. As far as banning one guy and not another- you have to be careful of collateral damage. They have to judge if everyone there was willfully participating in the cheating, or if some people were only "along for the ride" and were not aware of what was happening (But that only works if the incident only happens once. You can't argue people didn't know what was happening after the first time). For such people who were caught in the middle, they usually received a suspension at worst, not a ban.Quote:
You know what i would do if i had power doing those savage bans? delete the gear that was gained by the "cheating"
My only issue with this discussion with you is that you are overstating the scope of the affected population, and that you seem to think that banning people for cheating in salvage has something to do with killing RMT. RMT do not do salvage, so that makes no sense.
I like seeing actual numbers, but where did you get these?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriha
-
04-03-2011, 12:30 PMSerihaOn PlayOnline.Quote:
In November 2008, we discovered an issue that allowed players to create multiple items for certain treasures and rewards in areas such as Salvage and Assault by exploiting the game system.
The issue was fixed during emergency maintenance on November 26, 2008. However, we discovered that some players had already exploited the issue and used it to gain additional items before it was addressed. We then investigated more than a year's worth of logs throughout all areas.
As a result of the investigation, approximately 400 players were temporarily suspended based on the evidence gathered. Approximately 550 players who committed more serious misconduct had their accounts banned.
We are working hard to ensure that these kinds of issues do not occur again in FINAL FANTASY XI. However, if you discover any problems with the game system, please submit a GM call or fill out the feedback e-mail form to report the problems to us, instead of exploiting or spreading the issue.
We thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
-
04-03-2011, 01:15 PMAlhanelem
That means around 30 people average per server were punished. (Though it's very likely some servers had very few and others had more)
That's seriously not a lot. -
04-03-2011, 02:21 PMOlorI am not asking for "everything in the game at the beginning" - I am asking to be able to do the things I enjoy in a game I am paying full price for. Due to time constraints - there is no way that I can/expect to have everything in the game in my first month - but I should be able to enjoy the content I am paying for - that is all there is to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by annewandering
-
04-03-2011, 02:23 PMOlorThree months? That is a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
-
04-03-2011, 02:25 PMFiarliaThe way the gil was obtained seems to not be an issue in SE's eyes because when Gardening itself was restricted, there were absolutely no changes to what actually made it profitable in the first place. I'm not arguing whether or not it should be fixed, but at the time they banned RMT's for it, and not legitimate players (as far as I'm aware).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
What it basically boils down to is being able to buy something from an NPC, use it to garden, and then turn around and NPC the results for profit. The amount of profit is honestly not very much, but it was (is) easy as hell to do, and with a lot of mules could generate significant returns over time.
Again, not here to argue if it's good or bad for legit players, but obviously once RMT's discovered this it had to be stopped, thus the Gardening restrictions were put in place for new accounts. Again, though, the price of buying/selling from/to an NPC was not changed at the same time, despite SE knowing full well what items were being targeted. -
04-03-2011, 02:31 PMOlorYay, someone who gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bungiefan
-
04-03-2011, 03:03 PMRambusway more then that where banned, asura had over 100 so yeah what she posted is not the full banning numbers, 2009 was mass banning year, I am not sure when they ended the savage ones (actually I may be confusing that number with that BOT ap list)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
http://killingifrit.com/forums/topic/175335-unbanned/
those savage bans that note was just the start of it. (pretty sure)
I am sure it takes more then 30 people to brake 3-4 LS
I lost the first thread I had talking about my mule account that got banned with the wave of gardening bans but this guy posted the total number of bans that year and it was huge.
That first thread I posted here i cannot find ( I clicked on my self to try find it) So i made a new one.
I might of been overdoing it by saying the savage bans alone was the cause of FFXIs downfall, and yes you have a point with the game getting old game was dieing off SLOWELY just after ATU came out.
however that mass bannings in 2009 really sped it up and had a ripple effect of from the savage bans of friends of those people quitting and such.
ether way month 1- month 7 in 2009 sucked for people there was a huge number of bans that should never have happened.
If you buy the game and get a 30 day free month cuz you bought the game should not have the restriction, only the free trails should ( requt a friend thing pass w/e FFXI calls it)
and bring back the free trails try get some new blood and those trails you can have them have a gil cap, unable to send tells to people or a big limit of tells to people, say amount, so on so RMT don’t use them for advertise.
SE can also be like WoW and have naming rules , qwertyrdfswswf is not a name and that can red flag rmts quicker.
Get rid of this gardening restriction and get rid of gil sending cap. I guess you can have like a 30 or 60 day time for gil sending cap.
Let me tell you why that gil sending cap is annoying. 1 you can only send gil to one person,2 the cap is 1 M
I have a lot of mules and during lotto day it is hell to send gil to them one by one (I stopped bothering when my mule was banned though)
I hate selling stuff on mules anymore or having mules because of all these pointless gil sending cap and it do not even effect RMT. -
04-03-2011, 03:10 PMFiarliahttp://www.playonline.com/ff11us/pol...ews15265.shtmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Rambus
Those are the correct numbers. -
04-03-2011, 03:58 PMAlhanelemSorry, no. I will take SE's numbers over yours.Quote:
way more then that where banned,
-
04-03-2011, 04:08 PMVoldMaybe Asura had just THAT many cheaters. Are you calling SE liars? Really? How do you even know how many got banned on Asura? What did you do a head count? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambus
Basically what you are saying is that SE should permit cheating on a grand scale for the sake of the game. They look the other way on windower, so it's not fair they won't do the same for salvage dupes? Really? That is for all intent and purposes exactly what you are saying because no one is buying this argument that tons of people were unjustly banned. Even if the game lost 10,000 players, whether if they were all cheaters, or friends of cheaters who quit because their friends got banned or just mostly cheaters with some innocent folk caught in the fire, whatever conceivable thing you can come up with, there are still hundreds of THOUSANDS of players. Do you understand how many people that is? And how 10,000 lost is not going to cause any kind of a downfall to the game?(it was around 1k that got punished for salvage dupes, and I think it's safe to say no more than an additional 2k were banned for whatever you keep talking about. I say 10,000 to be extremely forgiving) People got bant. Most of them came right back on new characters, bought characters, characters on loan, you name it. Life went on.
You know I can sum up 90% of your posts with this one sentence: I know best. All of you are delusional. SE killed FFXI. I want my grind back. Etc stuff.
Go ahead SE. Lift ALL of your counter measures. See what happens. Rambus knows best. It's not like you guys have been at the front lines fighting the war all this time, playing a cat and mouse game with RMT. You guys trippin' if you think you know better than a random customer playing your game. Back to the minors with the STF. Come back when you're pro.
There's no denying that SE hasn't been perfect through the years. But you make it sound like the game is dying entirely because of SE, when in fact it's because of it's age. You can expect it to keep "dying" until about 200,000 remain and will probably keep playing long enough for SE to hang themselves because people don't know when to quit. Just ask Sony about their EQ players that just won't go away. -
04-03-2011, 04:17 PMRambuspeople read that bold?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambus
If you really went through my post I think you would know the answer to that already.Quote:
Basically what you are saying is that SE should permit cheating on a grand scale for the sake of the game. They look the other way on windower, so it's not fair they won't do the same for salvage dupes? Really? That is for all intent and purposes exactly what you are saying because no one is buying this argument that tons of people were unjustly banned. Even if the game lost 10,000 players, whether if they were all cheaters, or friends of cheaters who quit because their friends got banned or just mostly cheaters with some innocent folk caught in the fire, whatever conceivable thing you can come up with, there are still hundreds of THOUSANDS of players. Do you understand how many people that is? And how 10,000 lost is not going to cause any kind of a downfall to the game?(it was around 1k that got punished for salvage dupes, and I think it's safe to say no more than an additional 2k were banned for whatever you keep talking about. I say 10,000 to be extremely forgiving) People got bant. Most of them came right back on new characters, bought characters, characters on loan, you name it. Life went on.
Maybe my words are no good since you and that other guy did miss what I had to say about what I bold
To answer this question I would say yes and no. In fact that is what SE did, they let botters bot for a long time, they let people MPK and harass but turn around and ban savage doup?
The answer to your question is yes because that is what SE does anyway, the no part is explaining what SE should of done in how to ban / punish people.
With the poor drop rates in savage how do you know that was an intended trick or not?
Like I said if it was up to me I would just delete the "cheated" earn gear and remind them of the ToS, that you are not allowed to exploit the game in any way. People even defended that pup should be allowed to solo diabolos and it was fair for that exploit.
If it was up to me from the start I would not put my banning focus on trade count.
First I would try to detect and ban botters ( RMT tend to bot). I would ban people that did any type of NM harass ( MPK, mob train, so on) since RMT to do that. I would look into what people did that had names like qwertgfdef. I would monitor NMs see if same group or person was claiming it over and over and try hard to find proof it is a bot or advance bot detection. SE ban RMT based on trade count and other flawed ways that hit a lot of people that where real players that did not cheat.
and lol yes I do know best, gardening countermeasure does not stop RMT, gil sending cap did not stop RMT, it was just something to work around.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/07...ends-out-bans/
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/foru...dening-in-FFXI
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=19095
http://forums.g4tv.com/showthread.php?t=131377
http://gameguidexx.blogspot.com/2009...ix-banned.html
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/4179-got-banned-on-ffxi/
http://shamayaasura.livejournal.com/2009/01/23/
I have 3 accounts , all 3 where banned due to the credit card ban. I was lucky and got it lifted right away
then 2 weeks later my mule account got banned and i still have not have it fixed so if you think I am just telling stories of friends you are wrong. I was hit with it
I do not know how meny got hit wronfully and i am sure it is mroe then 10 000, someone posted in my ban compaint thread on all the numbers of that year and I cannot find the post.
I tried to google FFXI bans of 2009 and was not able to find the numbers.
and last part of your post shows you did not read everything I said, or try to understand.
I said FFXI has been slowly dieing since AHU (SE did not effect that much) came out.
SEs mass banings in 2009 greatly spead up its death however.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/68852-R.I.P.-Players!
hmm mabye it was over 100 for the bot list and the savage bans lol
lest i was right, act like i do not know what i am talking about.
oh yeah like it is hard to eye these people to learn how to detect bots:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/92099-w1zbot-userlist
some may not used it but still...
and to restate i never mean to mean SE killed FFXI, spead it up sure, sorry for the confusion. -
04-03-2011, 08:23 PMRAIST
WOW.. this debate just refuses to die.
Really don't understand what all the QQ is about. Bans happened in the past--be they right or wrong, good or bad for the game--it's over with. Look at what goes on NOW.
Things generally cost considerably less than they used to (for the most part) simply because those gears are less relevant now. Thus, by proxy--gil is less relevant now. Some of the sellers no longer even deal with FFXI anymore--they refer you to another supplier now, simply because there is less demand for the product.
If you can't make the gil one way...how about trying another? There are many early crafting recipes that can net good profits depending on how the market goes and whether mats are farmed or bought. You can make a 40-50% profit on Tsurara alone selling it to NPC's starting with 0 skill. Not exactly ideal, but it's easy money--and if you put some up in the AH it's a crazy markup.
Think outside the box a little. After all, this game is designed to encourage some level of exploration and experimentation. -
04-04-2011, 12:18 AMAlhanelem
Every game bans people. End of story, Deal with it. Banning people does not kill games. Just because you or people you know got banned does not mean it had far reaching effects on the game.
Hell, MapleStory even publishes a list of the names of all the characters it bans on a monthly basis, and that game is still GROWING.. WoW bans people all the time and they still have millions of customers. -
04-04-2011, 12:35 AMSNKIt is and it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Here's the original thread on BG when the bannings happened.
http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68831
Here's the thread with the people that were known that got banned.
http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68852
And here's one I seriously enjoyed just for the amount of players who got their shit handed to them for thinking SE wouldn't do a damn thing. lol
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/688...ead?highlight= -
04-04-2011, 12:41 AMAlhanelem
Not sure what you're trying to say. BG's list only accounts for a little more than half of how many people got banned. But over 100 of them were on Asura (which has the most listed). I think that says something about that server... :p
-
04-04-2011, 12:50 AMSNKWhat I'm trying to say is Rambus is right. You see the Salvage bannings were the biggest of the bans ever done but a lot of people were banned before & after that so the number isn't 550 permas which some people think that's the only time SE's ever hammered a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
If I cared to look further into the whole STF thing, I could show you where SE literally did bannings so much that they even made monthly posts about how many accounts got hammered for even funnier shit. PoS hacking, ect.
I'm sure you get the idea.~ -
04-04-2011, 01:12 AMAlhanelemAre you kidding? Gil is handed to you on a silver platter in abyssea. The game dishes out boxes full of weapons, rings and armor with crappy augments that no one wants (these items often are left to disappear), but most of them NPC for 7-12k each.Quote:
In my 8.5 years of playing, I've never reached 500,000 gil on my character. I've only broken 200k a couple of times, trying to level BLM as my main. Gil is even harder to earn,
I have literally made my last few millions NPCing augmented items from abyssea (Especially from that seal quest in attohwa to find a bug on the ground- Before they nerfed it, it was 9k every 2 minutes; after 2 days getting seals from it, it adds up). If you can't save up 1 mil, there's something wrong.
He's not right. All of the other times SE has hammered a lot of people, those people were RMTs and bots, not even real "people." FFXI still had at least 100-200k subscribers if not much more at the time, and 550 permabans is a drop in the bucket.Quote:
What I'm trying to say is Rambus is right. You see the Salvage bannings were the biggest of the bans ever done but a lot of people were banned before & after that so the number isn't 550 permas which some people think that's the only time SE's ever hammered a lot of people.
-
04-04-2011, 01:25 AMSeriha
Main reason I fished up the numbers was due to the implication that it was Salvage bans alone that somehow lead to this grand fall of the game. If I'm not mistaken, the RMT pwner or whatever they called their automated system had been into place and certainly started going through whatever criteria SE deemed inappropriate. Did others POS/flee hack, MPK, bot claim, grief, and so on? You bet. However, those claims are a bit harder to substantiate (especially when you introduce the language barrier) than a run where only 1 of a particular item is possible instead churning out 3.
As for the distribution of bans and suspensions, I'm not really surprised it might've been skewed toward one server over another. Remember, only people who "deserved" to know were filled in (So, why tell a random joe on some backwater server not your own?) and even in the few times someone apparently tried to whistleblow on BG, the posts were nuked out of fear to what it might do the game. Perhaps a noble reason, but hard to decide if it was devoid of ulterior motives. The whole "secret keeping" angle is probably what pissed SE off most and led to the actual bans over suspensions or item deletion. Perhaps the most recent comparison in exploit involved the Ironclads and height differentials allowing for near-invlunerability. People reported it, SE said not to do it (some still did, of course), and their patch for it came. Could it have resulted in another wave of bans if people said nothing for another 6+ months? Who knows. Just as the enfeeble/mob resist issue before that happened, people need to speak up so bugs get fixed, be they beneficial or detrimental to our play. -
04-04-2011, 01:44 AMSNKI'm sorry but you really are dead wrong on this. I recall two people I knew on Fairy alone that got hammered for PoS hacking thru a zone. One of them which was a guy who'd just gotten a D-ring *lol stupid for even doing it* and another guy named Juvant who MPK'd a mess of JP at Nidhogg and got his account hammered as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
That number is nowhere excat and SE has banned normal players a lot of times but truthfully they've brought it on themselves more then anyone. The number of bans on real players greatly exceeds 550. The only reason that number is so out there is because the people who said SE wouldn't do anything ended up getting hammered.
I'm not trying to bullshit you here dude but the number of people hammered is a lot bigger then you'd suspect.