Will there be camps in the new expansion?

I hate to think of a FF world that lack giant critter's didn't pop up from time to time. There is some awesome about being along traveling threw a zone and than sudden a 500 ton Wrym appears. Don't get me wrong "I don't want old world HNM's."

Perhaps some new system could be place in like a quest. Where you would talk to a npc in town. And than some where random in a zone your monster would pop. Alliance's flag for the quest could than all branch out searching for it. And only those player's that are flag could lay claim to it.

IDK if the whole searching thing would bring back the nostalgia of the HNM hunt. But the idea behind this would allow all players to get a chance at loot and drops. And add a bit of adventure by searching the mob out.

I'm sure someone already mentioned it, but the HNM doesn't have to drop loot. If your looking for world spawns that surprise you, or block a path or something forcing players to team up and beat the baddy, that's fine. That's fun even. But using them as a means to distribute really good gear, even 1 single piece of good gear, is a bad idea.

In the case of adding the same gear to some other event like einherjar: That still poses several issues. Finding a linkshell that does certain events on your schedule can be just as hard as getting an HNM to pop during said window. Not only that, but it still awards the guy who just happens to play during the right time of day with a 100% higher chance of getting the gear since camping the HNM does not exclude you from also doing einherjar. As a matter of fact, many shells pool DKP, so being on and available during the spawn window will award people points that get them to the top of the einherjar list as well.

Hell no.

What the heck, are you guys taking turns trolling the forums. One gets shot down only to have another one turn up a few days / weeks later.

To answer the OP, HELL NO. King's were never engaging, fun or otherwise good content. World spawn NM's are BAD, and every successful MMO has moved beyond them. They allow only a select few to have paid money for "magic pixie dust" so that they can claim the NM. Everyone else on the SERVER is then screwed unless they also pay for that magic pixie dust. Then it becomes a game of who paid the most for the most powerful magic pixie dust.

As someone said, if you want the "HNM" experience, unplug your keyboard in front of Fafnir's ??? in DA. Wait a few hours, plug it back in, then have someone else pop and kill the dragon while you stand there hoping they wipe.

And do all this at 4am when you have to work the next day. Or call your friends / wife / gf / significant other and tell them you have to cancel your date / engagement cause your LS needs you during that window.

Yeah F*CK that noise.

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Originally Posted by Aarahs

You see a majority of players don't want HNMs. I see a full third of players do want them, more than enough for SE to implement them with desired drops. When your play window closes, it's opening for someone else.

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And your imagining things. Those people are only in your head, your probably talking to them.

I'd peg it at less then 2~5% of this games population desires world spawned HNM. And most of those only desire it so that they have some sort of status symbol they can show up in town.

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Originally Posted by saevel

And your imagining things. Those people are only in your head, your probably talking to them.

I'd peg it at less then 2~5% of this games population desires world spawned HNM. And most of those only desire it so that they have some sort of status symbol they can show up in town.

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As much as I disagree with Aarahs, you can't go around telling someone that their statistics are wrong and then make up some statistics without giving any evidence and then expect to be taken seriously.

There should be content for everyone, if people want to camp an hnm (and they enjoy doing that) or w/e let them, it doesnt bother me and if it drops übergear which is way better than mine then let them have it since they invested alot more time in it. doesnt mean because most cant play 24/7 that content like this shouldnt exist, minorities should be taken into consideration too. Also not that many people make use of the forum so its kinda hard to tell what % is for and how many are against... maybe SE should organise a playerpoll like they have on xiv to determine what direction to go with the new expansion.

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Originally Posted by Eric

As much as I disagree with Aarahs, you can't go around telling someone that their statistics are wrong and then make up some statistics without giving any evidence and then expect to be taken seriously.

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Here's a fact: There are enough people logged on my server to form about 100 alliances right now. If all 100 alliances take turns fighting an HNM that spawns the HQ version once every 3 days, and we all take turns (meaning no claim bots or other shells even show up for the pop except the one whose turn it is) , we will get to fight it about once per year.

That's assuming a Utopian FFXI player base, who all share content equally because they are all mature, respectful, caring, self sacrificing individuals.

Thanks but no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Sorry Tukutu, you've entered the realm of "If it existed before 2010, you can forget about it, because nobody wants it!"

I beg to differ here: Oh boy check out the 200+ Likes!

Anyhow, I agree with your suggestion. :)

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THAT link is for Final Fantasy 14!!

If you want to play FF14 there's the door. Don't say this is people voting for Final Fantasy 11. Why don't I link to a WOW page that shows it's subscriber base and then say SEE, I beg to differ with you people want easy mode.

See how easy it is to skew results when you use different services? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by vienne

There should be content for everyone,

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They shouldn't be worrying about appealing to niche groups when they have limited manpower and resources. They should be trying to cater each piece of content to as large a group as possible.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

THAT link is for Final Fantasy 14!!

If you want to play FF14 there's the door. Don't say this is people voting for Final Fantasy 11. Why don't I link to a WOW page that shows it's subscriber base and then say SEE, I beg to differ with you people want easy mode.

See how easy it is to skew results when you use different services? :rolleyes:

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My point is that a lot of that game's playerbase wants to see elements of its predecessor, in this case HNM's, return so that they can enjoy them in a new setting without having to go elsewhere to find them. If they can't find them there or anywhere, where are they left to go for their niche? Some would say these types of players are but a small percentage in the realm of MMORPG's, and I beg to differ. The link was my proof.

Just because a handful of people on these forums reject the idea, doesn't mean the rest of the gaming world wouldn't enjoy it. Get used to that idea.

Sure, they could make them not drop any loot. Then they'd be like Jormungand where people only ever fight it for the title, and it sits up all by itself 95% of the time.

Or they could expand on the old system, and make the gear drop from alternative sources. They half did this in the past, but left a large number of items HNM specific. Presumably, to keep them rare, since every player shouldn't have every item anyways.

Or they could do something similar to bosses in NNI and just give you key items that can eventually be redeemed for gear.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

My point is that a lot of that game's playerbase wants to see elements of its predecessor, in this case HNM's, return so that they can enjoy them in a new setting without having to go elsewhere to find them. If they can't find them there or anywhere, where are they left to go for their niche? Some would say these types of players are but a small percentage in the realm of MMORPG's, and I beg to differ. The link was my proof.

Just because a handful of people on these forums reject the idea, doesn't mean the rest of the gaming world wouldn't enjoy it. Get used to that idea.

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Your link proves that a bunch of people who are crazy enough to play a game that not only has nothing to do with this one, but absolutely sucks enjoy something that no one else likes. Which is a conclusion that one can jump to just by seeing that they play FFXIV. No need to take a poll. A thread that shows that people who enjoy a crappy game, want crappy content doesn't help your argument much at all.

Just because a handful of people on those forums like the idea, doesn't mean the rest of the gaming world would enjoy it. Get used to that idea.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Sure, they could make them not drop any loot. Then they'd be like Jormungand where people only ever fight it for the title, and it sits up all by itself 95% of the time.

Or they could expand on the old system, and make the gear drop from alternative sources. They half did this in the past, but left a large number of items HNM specific. Presumably, to keep them rare, since every player shouldn't have every item anyways.

Or they could do something similar to bosses in NNI and just give you key items that can eventually be redeemed for gear.

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It was my understanding from reading what they have said in interviews, that they intended the monsters to stay up %95 of the time like Jormy. They did not expect that players would spend days / nights / weeks camping them. That is part of the reason they put the kabosh on them.

But that doesn't really matter because the simple fact is that %99 of the people on a server will never get to experience them and the ones who do will likely have a bad experience due to an even smaller group of players who are total d-bags.

How about in the new expansion the devs take advantage of the whole instanced concept and make HNMs appear in instanced dungeons? Or perhaps make it like Besieged at those OPs players are capable of making and having each OP keep a track record of points gained for loot specific to that OP? These are the only feasible methods I see in introducing HNMs in the new expansion that allows many(more than one ls) to participate and experience the content.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Your link proves that a bunch of people who are crazy enough to play a game that not only has nothing to do with this one, but absolutely sucks enjoy something that no one else likes. Which is a conclusion that one can jump to just by seeing that they play FFXIV. No need to take a poll. A thread that shows that people who enjoy a crappy game, want crappy content doesn't help your argument much at all.

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200 > 24

FFXIV =/= FFXI

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

200 > 24

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Damn, you just keep on making the same fallacies over and over as if repeating the same thing will make it true (this is argument from repetition), your post is an example of appeal to belief and incomplete comparison and does nothing to fortify your position.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

FFXIV =/= FFXI

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MMO = MMO
HNM Topic = HNM Topic
Final Fantasy = Final Fantasy

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

MMO = MMO
HNM Topic = HNM Topic
Final Fantasy = Final Fantasy

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Almost correct.

MMO = MMO
HNM Topic = HNM Topic
Final Fantasy XI =/= Final Fantasy XIV

There we go!

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Almost correct.

MMO = MMO
HNM Topic = HNM Topic
Final Fantasy IX =/= Final Fantasy XIV

There we go!

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Absolutely! ;)

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Absolutely! ;)

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You know exactly what was meant... -_-;

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

My point is that a lot of that game's playerbase wants to see elements of its predecessor, in this case HNM's, return so that they can enjoy them in a new setting without having to go elsewhere to find them.

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If 200 is a lot of a game's player base then that game has more problems than HNMs and the people who love them will be able to fix.

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If they can't find them there or anywhere, where are they left to go for their niche?

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EQ1? Ultima Online? Asheron's Call? Something old, archaic and not up to modern MMO standards?

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Some would say these types of players are but a small percentage in the realm of MMORPG's, and I beg to differ. The link was my proof.

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A nearly imperceptible fraction of the MMO universe is hardly proof of anything.

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Just because a handful of people on these forums reject the idea, doesn't mean the rest of the gaming world wouldn't enjoy it. Get used to that idea.

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The rest of the gaming world is playing WoW and it doesn't have the style of game play you claim that they are asking for.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

If 200 is a lot of a game's player base then that game has more problems than HNMs and the people who love them will be able to fix.



EQ1? Ultima Online? Asheron's Call? Something old, archaic and not up to modern MMO standards?



A nearly imperceptible fraction of the MMO universe is hardly proof of anything.



The rest of the gaming world is playing WoW and it doesn't have the style of game play you claim that they are asking for.

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Camiie, you really, really know how to send shivers up my spine. ):

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

200 > 24

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That poll is for a completely different game. All your thread proves is that you are in the wrong forum.

And besides that, did you actually read that post? The OP is asking for no spawn windows and short pop times. Meaning no camping and no sense of competition. A lot of the comments are referring to small NM like leaping lizzy. he's asking trigger pops like ZNM and VW as well. Your acting like all those likes are for world spawn 24-72 hour HNM when in fact that guy is talking about allllll sorts of unrelated material in a completely unrelated game.

The bottom line is that regardless of whether 200 or 2,000 people want them, the negative affects it would have on 300,000 people is the issue.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

That poll is for a completely different game. All your thread proves is that you are in the wrong forum.

And besides that, did you actually read that post? The OP is asking for no spawn windows and short pop times. Meaning no camping and no sense of competition. A lot of the comments are referring to small NM like leaping lizzy. he's asking trigger pops like ZNM and VW as well. Your acting like all those likes are for world spawn 24-72 hour HNM when in fact that guy is talking about allllll sorts of unrelated material in a completely unrelated game.

The bottom line is that regardless of whether 200 or 2,000 people want them, the negative affects it would have on 300,000 people is the issue.

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Honestly, I don't recall anyone asking for strict C&P from either side. Everyone wants a compromise in some form. And to be fair, Lizzy and the like were mentioned as toward in addition to the proposed.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Absolutely! ;)

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And you are an idiot if you think one Final Fantasy is the same as any other Final Fantasy. They're their own self contained games, that just happen to share the same name. You fail. Utterly and completely. Go back and try again, do not pass go do not collect 200 Gil.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Honestly, I don't recall anyone asking for strict C&P from either side. Everyone wants a compromise in some form. And to be fair, Lizzy and the like were mentioned as toward in addition to the proposed.

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From your FFXIV thread

First paragraph:

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bring HNM/NM's into FFXIV in a manner that would appeal to the entirety of the playerabase, and not just a select elitist few.

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Fourth paragraph:

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we would like to see better small-time open world NM's. Possibly some Lottery Spawns, Trigger Spawned NM's, etc. Before you flame, please read the entirety of this post, as we do not want a pure copy+paste of XI's NM system (we want shortened timers, etc)

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Note that most of what he's talking about is already in this game (FFXI) and is lacking in that game (FFXIV). That thread is about way more than what we are discussing in this thread when people say things like:

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Originally Posted by Takutu

Will there will camps similar to pre-Abyssea camps, such as Kings, CoP Wyrms, etc?

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Originally Posted by Tile

you want them to add a HNM that drops 1 item that everyone wants 10% of the time and is a 72 hour repop?

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Originally Posted by Takutu

10% is a bit high, don't you think? But otherwise, yes.

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For the love of... i have nothing useful to add... perhaps ill post my first meme EVER to include a face palm and not this thread again pic =.=

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Originally Posted by Camiie

They shouldn't be worrying about appealing to niche groups when they have limited manpower and resources. They should be trying to cater each piece of content to as large a group as possible.

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so you're saying that people who also pay money to play this game and would like to see this added should just be ignored? and for as far limited manpower goes, SE is good at recycling its not like HNM is a total new concept

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Originally Posted by vienne

so you're saying that people who also pay money to play this game and would like to see this added should just be ignored? and for as far limited manpower goes, SE is good at recycling its not like HNM is a total new concept

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Every HNM built in SoA is time and resources wasted to make something only a few people want rather than something that's actually good.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Every HNM built in SoA is time and resources wasted to make something only a few people want rather than something that's actually good.

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everyone will want it, not everyone will have it

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

everyone will want it, not everyone will have it

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I do not want HNM, I would not want its gear or items either, reason being because all it would be is a reminder to me how much time I wasted on something completely stupid.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Sorry Tukutu, you've entered the realm of "If it existed before 2010, you can forget about it, because nobody wants it!"

I beg to differ here: Oh boy check out the 200+ Likes!

Anyhow, I agree with your suggestion. :)

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=>

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we would like to see better small-time open world NM's. Possibly some Lottery Spawns, Trigger Spawned NM's, etc. Before you flame, please read the entirety of this post, as we do not want a pure copy+paste of XI's NM system (we want shortened timers, etc)

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all I see is 200 people who want something that is NOT 21+HNM

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Originally Posted by vienne

so you're saying that people who also pay money to play this game and would like to see this added should just be ignored?

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Pretty much. They can't please everyone. They don't have the time or money to even attempt to do so. When that's the case, niche markets have to be sacrificed so that time and resources can be better allocated to appealing to a larger demographic.

They already waste far too much time on content only a few people are ever even meant to see as it stands now. The last thing they need to do is waste even more.

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and for as far limited manpower goes, SE is good at recycling its not like HNM is a total new concept

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Would you honestly be satisfied with them just plopping down a level 112 Fafhogg/KB/Turtle on a 21-24 hour timer?

I always thought that anger spawns made much more sense in the HNM world, whereby there is no timer, but the more of it's family you kill the higher the chance of a spawn.

So what if people can farm them? It is a direct reward of time spent to reward gained.

My original thoughts for Behemoth and Faf etc were that the zone should be filled with smaller variants, Wyverns and smaller behemoths etc, and on killing enough the kings would spawn, and very rarely, the HQ ones.

The timed spawn system really gave people a very warped opinion of how games should be played. They should never require people to stand around for up to 24 hours at a time doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by 0nionKn1ght

I always thought that anger spawns made much more sense in the HNM world, whereby there is no timer, but the more of it's family you kill the higher the chance of a spawn.

So what if people can farm them? It is a direct reward of time spent to reward gained.

My original thoughts for Behemoth and Faf etc were that the zone should be filled with smaller variants, Wyverns and smaller behemoths etc, and on killing enough the kings would spawn, and very rarely, the HQ ones.

The timed spawn system really gave people a very warped opinion of how games should be played. They should never require people to stand around for up to 24 hours at a time doing nothing.

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Maybe it could spawn with hate on the alliance that killed the last kill, similar to that one NM in Sky? Yeah, that'd work for me.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

Maybe it could spawn with hate on the alliance that killed the last kill, similar to that one NM in Sky? Yeah, that'd work for me.

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Agreed, sounds like a good system to me, however I would hope that perhaps mobs nearby wouldn't cause a problem once spawned, seeing as they would still be nearby.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Agreed, sounds like a good system to me, however I would hope that perhaps mobs nearby wouldn't cause a problem once spawned, seeing as they would still be nearby.

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Much like when monsters despawn in Abyssea to reset their levels, when daddy shows up, the kids hide until 5 minutes after the last death of the big one. Could even take it further, for example:

The setting: Dragon's Aery
The target: Nidhogg
Creatures found: Ancient Lizards (normal Lizard family monsters)

Kill enough Ancient Lizards (0% drop on key item drops) to spawn Hulking Ancient Lizards (0.01% drop chance on key item drops)
Kill enough HAL's to spawn Wyverns (1% chance to drop key items)
Kill enough Wyverns to spawn Fafnir (claimed to last alliance kill), causing every other monster in the Aery to despawn
Fafnir dying can occasionally summon Nidhogg (claimed to alliance that killed Fafnir) however it could be based on a chat log message "An earth shaking screech is heard from the clouds as Fafnir falls, something big is coming..." telling the alliance that in 60 seconds, Nidhogg is going to pop, and if not "The air falls silent once more as Fafnir screeches, and falls to the ground".

5 minutes after death of Wyrm, Ancient Lizards spawn again.

As well as anger spawning, you can also get the key items to lure them out early, but low drop rate from creatures in that zone, only increasing as you spawn the higher tiers.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Would you honestly be satisfied with them just plopping down a level 112 Fafhogg/KB/Turtle on a 21-24 hour timer?

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Thats not what i meant. HNM is there, i'd rather see it improved to todays standards then not see it at all. Its good to see people come up with ideas to improve it instead of just bashing the whole idea. Ideas to make it more accesible for everyone.
Would you prefer new content which will be called unbalanced 10 days after its been released?

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Originally Posted by 0nionKn1ght

Much like when monsters despawn in Abyssea to reset their levels, when daddy shows up, the kids hide until 5 minutes after the last death of the big one. Could even take it further, for example:

The setting: Dragon's Aery
The target: Nidhogg
Creatures found: Ancient Lizards (normal Lizard family monsters)

Kill enough Ancient Lizards (0% drop on key item drops) to spawn Hulking Ancient Lizards (0.01% drop chance on key item drops)
Kill enough HAL's to spawn Wyverns (1% chance to drop key items)
Kill enough Wyverns to spawn Fafnir (claimed to last alliance kill), causing every other monster in the Aery to despawn
Fafnir dying can occasionally summon Nidhogg (claimed to alliance that killed Fafnir) however it could be based on a chat log message "An earth shaking screech is heard from the clouds as Fafnir falls, something big is coming..." telling the alliance that in 60 seconds, Nidhogg is going to pop, and if not "The air falls silent once more as Fafnir screeches, and falls to the ground".

5 minutes after death of Wyrm, Ancient Lizards spawn again.

As well as anger spawning, you can also get the key items to lure them out early, but low drop rate from creatures in that zone, only increasing as you spawn the higher tiers.

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As long as they didn't do it in a silly spot where there are only a few mobs. Ulli and despot camps used to be super lame when a party of six could clear the area, and there were 3 full alliances fighting over pops.