Back in the good ole days

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Originally Posted by Midorikaze

Not to be off-topic, but speaking of content: does anybody do MMM anymore? Honestly, I kind of miss it ^^

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You will miss it forever I am afraid, they already said they will do NOTHING to update MMM. It's a dead content along with countless other dead contents that they just won't update or fix. Half baked at launch then abandoned by players, ignored by the developers and pretty much left to die so they can continue to give us another warmed up rehash of another "new" content inspired by old content, and make sure it has low drop rate and not very accessible with invisible barriers to make sure that players cannot consume it right away before jumping through many hoops. Sorry the abyssea play style is never going to be repeated ever again.... it's way too good and too much fun of a content.

Lol, nice slipping in of "accessible" and "abyssea" .

lol, nice white knighting of old content

I would like to make an addition to my previous post:

Please return to the days when CN was shut down for hours at a time because someone had trained a Knight Crawler all the way back to the entrance, and anyone stepping in reaggroed the train and faced instant death. You could also hire a BST as a hitman by having him subtly drop a knight crawler on top of your target's party.

Ah, the good old days.

I think you guys are missing the point.

As a porter who played the JP release, I can tell you that players nowadays miss the entire POINT of what the old school game was about...

Yeah, going 0-for-100 on a drop sucks, but it made going 1-for-200 that much MORE amazing. And the sense of accomplishment your party or LS got for completing an insanely tough mission (read as: Promy runs) made the sense of accomplishment -worth- the hassle.

Do I want to go back to LFG for hours trying to get EXP/Merits? No.
Do I think the game allows for anyone to achieve Lv.99 without skill or gear? Yes, and the fact that players can level from 37-96 in 12 hours (I've done it) weakens the player base as a whole.

We -need- mobs to get tougher, and drops to get fewer, to give us a reason to play the game.
Rule #1 of any MMO... "Never give players everything they want."

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Yeah, going 0-for-100 on a drop sucks, but it made going 1-for-200 that much MORE amazing. And the sense of accomplishment your party or LS got for completing an insanely tough mission (read as: Promy runs) made the sense of accomplishment -worth- the hassle.

Do I want to go back to LFG for hours trying to get EXP/Merits? No.
Do I think the game allows for anyone to achieve Lv.99 without skill or gear? Yes, and the fact that players can level from 37-96 in 12 hours (I've done it) weakens the player base as a whole.

We -need- mobs to get tougher, and drops to get fewer, to give us a reason to play the game.
Rule #1 of any MMO... "Never give players everything they want."

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I think you need a new shrink to examine your head. It's called video games, emphasize on GAME, which means it needs to be fun. If you want a life simulation of super hard (read: mob with gazilions HP and insta kill moves and hate resets with multiple adds) crap then you might as well go outside and "level up" your real life jobs. To be honest, the hard mode is still here in the game. They came up with tons of new crappy contents with super low drop rate. Some gets easier, the newest one are still annoyingly hard and require some sort of team work and strategy. Old school are dead for a good reasons, because it sucks, and today, people see games are something to fun and enjoyable to waste their time. This is not a game where you get absolutely nothing for the time you spent and constantly being punished in any ways shape possible.

The only thing bad about "old school" was the EXP grind. Every MMO encounters MPK and RMT and PLs and the like, so too many people want to associate "old school" playing to "hard, unfun" playing.

If you didn't have fun playing in 2003, why would you still be playing now?

Obviously, even the "Old school is dead for good reason" people didn't have it all -that- bad.

Thanks for suggesting the mental health examination... obviously spending too much time in Abyssea getting 100+k exp/hr has numbed my brain from how to actually "play" a "game" ....

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Point #1: Drugs are bad for you.

Point #2: I started this game in '04. Anyone who agrees with this either hasn't played this game from the original/RoZ/CoP days or they're PC-addled hotshots who only want to brag about how oh-so "l33t" they are (while typing in their parents' basements/attics). Anyone who's been there from the start wouldn't go back if they were offered free play forever.

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Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! You, my good Sir are correct in both points!

I saw the OP and thought to myself.
"No."
Then I thought " ...You are the reason we can't have nice things."

Then I realized that anyone speaking about "the good old days" has probably never played during "the good old days" and that they should be ignored completely.

If SE did go back to that crap something tells me that they would get lynched.

Personally, I think that giving players an option (which is what a separate server would be) is never a problem. However, I'm not sure that I'd like for everything to go back to the old days. I think having a server that's locked @75 content could work for those who like old school parties. I would, however, keep the current xp awards and not go down to where it took a year to make it to 75.

I mean, yes, you can currently make old school style parties and they are somewhat better for lack of competition (my LS has them scheduled weekly and the xp isn't half-bad). However, outside of scheduled LS events, putting an event like this together is next to impossible.

I would certainly sign up for this kind of server if it did become available. Also, note that these servers are very VERY popular on games that have instaured them (Everquest). You may also notice that making this type of server may actually bring back quite a few people.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

I think you guys are missing the point.

As a porter who played the JP release, I can tell you that players nowadays miss the entire POINT of what the old school game was about...

Yeah, going 0-for-100 on a drop sucks, but it made going 1-for-200 that much MORE amazing. And the sense of accomplishment your party or LS got for completing an insanely tough mission (read as: Promy runs) made the sense of accomplishment -worth- the hassle.

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Despite the Skinner Box and the popularity of casinos and lotteries, not everyone gets the powerful gambler's high that you seem to when you finally win after losing for so long. For me it's not a thrill so much as a "Thank God that's over! I hope I never have to do that again!" So for many of us the accomplishment ISN'T worth the hassle. Many of us would prefer to work toward a goal rather than have to luck into everything.

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Do I want to go back to LFG for hours trying to get EXP/Merits? No.
Do I think the game allows for anyone to achieve Lv.99 without skill or gear? Yes, and the fact that players can level from 37-96 in 12 hours (I've done it) weakens the player base as a whole.

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It's no one's responsibility to ensure that the rest of the playerbase meets your standards. That's why you can choose who you team up with. If no one out there is good enough for you then form a LS from whoever you can find and show them how you think things should be done.

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We -need- mobs to get tougher, and drops to get fewer, to give us a reason to play the game.

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We have plenty of tough mobs already, and if drop rates got any lower you'd end up losing gear at the end of a fight.

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Rule #1 of any MMO... "Never give players everything they want."

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They're not, they never have, and they never will. If you think stuff is just being given away you're deluded or grossly exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

This is not a game where you get absolutely nothing for the time you spent and constantly being punished in any ways shape possible.

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Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

The things you consider 'punishment' are meant to be a fun part of the game - and a lot of people do enjoy those parts.

The part where you build the pop set for your dragon for the shiny sword is meant to be fun and rewarding as a game - not just the item at the end. But if the item at the end is all that's important, why play?

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun?

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I agree on this.
but when you've done it (several) hundred times and still have make no progress since your first try it's no longer fun!

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Originally Posted by Collavoce

Personally, I think that giving players an option (which is what a separate server would be) is never a problem.

(...)

However, outside of scheduled LS events, putting an event like this together is next to impossible.

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How will you populate a server if you can't even populate a linkshell?

The linkshell is populated, I'm talking about trying to get a pick-up group. The problem is that people who would be interested in this are scattered across servers. Also, alot of the success of the Everquest progression servers have been people coming back to the game. I wouldn't discount it just because alot of people love Abyssea. Not everyone does.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

The things you consider 'punishment' are meant to be a fun part of the game - and a lot of people do enjoy those parts.

The part where you build the pop set for your dragon for the shiny sword is meant to be fun and rewarding as a game - not just the item at the end. But if the item at the end is all that's important, why play?

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This may be too American a concept for you, but where there is risk there should be rewards equal to that risk. Any event with high-tier items should not, repeat, NOT be tied to luck or the whims of a developer looking to make certain jobs as ineffective as possible against their precious HNMs, VNMs, or VWNMs. The journey may be fun to you, but there ultimately needs to be a destination to be reached.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

This may be too American a concept for you

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The box you live in must be nice and cosy.

Admittedly, this thread pisses me off.
This is going to sound goofy as all hell, but is it weird to genuinley enjoy a bit of suffering in your game? Yeah FFXI was hell and all, but christ look at why a game like Dark Souls is so well loved. It made every little advancement you made, every little achievment; something that you could flaunt as a piece of gear or just a personal experience that made the end result feel so -good-. (I'll never forget soloing you Lumbering Lambert. I still keep your horn in my MH since that day 4 years ago)
People are so obsessed with having that piece of gear and looking cool that they cant seem to understand what makes that gear so amazing. It's just not the fact that you now have +25 attack or +10% haste, or whatever. But the blood, sweat and tears, and the experience that came from getting that gear.
Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

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I want a social fantasy game, not a ridiculously expensive chat room.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

This may be too American a concept for you, but where there is risk there should be rewards equal to that risk. Any event with high-tier items should not, repeat, NOT be tied to luck or the whims of a developer looking to make certain jobs as ineffective as possible against their precious HNMs, VNMs, or VWNMs. The journey may be fun to you, but there ultimately needs to be a destination to be reached.

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I agree with what you're saying. Having everything be luck based is what's killing this game. However calling it an American concept is a bit much, no doubt more than a few people will get their panties in a bunch. Personally, meh- I can see what you're getting at and yeah, I agree. I suppose a more PC term for it would be a "concept of common sense"
but really, as it turns out common sense is a rarity.

The only thing that I would really edit with what you said is the fun vagueness in your statement. Games have to be fun, no exceptions. If the journey is not fun then the destination will not be reached.

Mind you this is strictly in regards to games. Real life is different because we have obligations we must fulfill but that is why the fun factor is so important in the way we decide to spend our leisure time.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

Admittedly, this thread pisses me off.
This is going to sound goofy as all hell, but is it weird to genuinley enjoy a bit of suffering in your game? Yeah FFXI was hell and all, but christ look at why a game like Dark Souls is so well loved. It made every little advancement you made, every little achievment; something that you could flaunt as a piece of gear or just a personal experience that made the end result feel so -good-. (I'll never forget soloing you Lumbering Lambert. I still keep your horn in my MH since that day 4 years ago)
People are so obsessed with having that piece of gear and looking cool that they cant seem to understand what makes that gear so amazing. It's just not the fact that you now have +25 attack or +10% haste, or whatever. But the blood, sweat and tears, and the experience that came from getting that gear.
Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

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There is truth in what you say.
A challenge done right can be very rewarding and fun. Dark Souls does that pretty well but even there it's a delicate balance. One too many faceplants and the player gets frustrated. It's a lot harder that one would think to hit that sweet spot where it's just the right amount of challange/faceplant. lol

It really is the experience that people remember, not the gear. It's simply how the human memory works.
i.e. "Remember when LS X lost claim on Faffy at 1%? Bunzz voked and claimed. He 2hrd and killed it."
Nobody talks about the drops! XD

To address your closing statement-- I can't say that everyone talked to their LS or pm'd specific people between party invites but to be perfectly honest that was a small fraction of people.
I know a great deal of people who watched TV, did their chores, or did their homework. At the time, I was one of those people. It wasn't that they were having fun or a good experience it was that their experience of the game was put on hold by the fact that they had to wait hours upon hours, upon hours for an invites. Granted, certain jobs got invites faster than others but they were a select few.

I wouldn't say that this thread pisses me off... I just think the OP is delusional about what the "good ole days" really were. =\

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

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Actually they do know how to create instant fun gratification - Abyssea is the most popular example and the best one on how to create great contents. ToAU and CoP endgame to a degree but not as optimal as Abyssea. My main issue is how they want to bring everything back to pre-abyssea where people have to go 200-300 or more just to get a chance to get a drop. And you are not getting any measured progression whatsoever, just dumb luck if you get the gears, and mostly for other people, try try again. They could at least have a points for better gear where you can redeem them, and the sidegrade gears are just nice added bonus. This way people will go do them more for the points. But then you are running into "barance" issue... hence Legion and Neo Nyzul :)

Your argument only applies to Voidwatch, and is inapplicable to Neo-Nyzul or Legion.

1) You don't have to go 200-300 in Neo-Nyzul or Legion.

2) You CAN get measured progression in Neo-Nyzul with the recent update.

3) There is a points system in Legion. Albeit, one that nobody currently wants anything from, but IIRC they intend to patch it and tweak the event itself.

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

There is truth in what you say.
A challenge done right can be very rewarding and fun. Dark Souls does that pretty well but even there it's a delicate balance. One too many faceplants and the player gets frustrated. It's a lot harder that one would think to hit that sweet spot where it's just the right amount of challange/faceplant. lol

It really is the experience that people remember, not the gear. It's simply how the human memory works.
i.e. "Remember when LS X lost claim on Faffy at 1%? Bunzz voked and claimed. He 2hrd and killed it."
Nobody talks about the drops! XD

To address your closing statement-- I can't say that everyone talked to their LS or pm'd specific people between party invites but to be perfectly honest that was a small fraction of people.
I know a great deal of people who watched TV, did their chores, or did their homework. At the time, I was one of those people. It wasn't that they were having fun or a good experience it was that their experience of the game was put on hold by the fact that they had to wait hours upon hours, upon hours for an invites. Granted, certain jobs got invites faster than others but they were a select few.

I wouldn't say that this thread pisses me off... I just think the OP is delusional about what the "good ole days" really were. =\

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I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. But I genuinley think FFXI -had- that right balance of Sweet And Sour. (Like The one update where level sync and FoV came out.) The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

Also, after a while, did no one else get wise about waiting for invites?
Maybe I was a spoiled DRG, but theres a lot you can do besides sitting around andtalking to your LS while LFP.
Craft, solo some weaker mobs. Farm, dink around on the AH. Or my personal favorite, get a small trio of friends and fight some VTs-lower end ITs.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. But I genuinley think FFXI -had- that right balance of Sweet And Sour. (Like The one update where level sync and FoV came out.) The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

Also, after a while, did no one else get wise about waiting for invites?
Maybe I was a spoiled DRG, but theres a lot you can do besides sitting around andtalking to your LS while LFP.
Craft, solo some weaker mobs. Farm, dink around on the AH. Or my personal favorite, get a small trio of friends and fight some VTs-lower end ITs.

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It's easy for me to look upon FFXI in the past with rose colored glasses. Despite the bitter aftertaste I still had a lot of fun in the game. It was in part due to me being in high school at the time and in part with the players I met.
Certainly, as I look back on it now I find myself wanting to agree with you. However, I don't think FFXI had that flow you were talking about. The lvling in FFXI was what took up most of everyone's time, not the content. Once the lvling was made easier it was easier to see how little content FFXI really had/has and how much of it is just dead content.

Ten years ago the market had a small handful of MMO's. Right now the market is saturated with 'em. SE is still stubbornly clinging to what it was like pre-WoW. The refusal to evolve with the times is what's killing this game.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

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I for one, am very glad to be able to say to my other friends who play WoW, that FFXI now has the fastest way to lvl, it is so much easier now to level up all your jobs - then go back and learn all the nuances in Abyssea by soloing or within a small party set up. Abyssea is very fun to learn the jobs on your own, mix and match atmas, seeing what is possible with low man set up, collecting the shiny seals and plus 2 materials. Though I agree with you, there other things to do beside levelling up - and SE decided to do just that, made lvl up no brainer and ridiculously easy so now we have no excuse to complaint that it is very hard to make a party, etc.... Good riddance to be honest. The game is so much fun now. All they need to do is balancing these new contents and make it so that it's more on par with Abyssea level of fun.

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

It's easy for me to look upon FFXI in the past with rose colored glasses. Despite the bitter aftertaste I still had a lot of fun in the game. It was in part due to me being in high school at the time and in part with the players I met.
Certainly, as I look back on it now I find myself wanting to agree with you. However, I don't think FFXI had that flow you were talking about. The lvling in FFXI was what took up most of everyone's time, not the content. Once the lvling was made easier it was easier to see how little content FFXI really had/has and how much of it is just dead content.

Ten years ago the market had a small handful of MMO's. Right now the market is saturated with 'em. SE is still stubbornly clinging to what it was like pre-WoW. The refusal to evolve with the times is what's killing this game.

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I can agree and disagree with you. I was in highschool as well and had a lot more free time. There is no denying that FFXI is much more accesible, and I like that. I just think the shift was far too much, and way too fast.
By flow though, I mean there was a steady sense of progression not just character wise, but internally.
Start out soloing, start partying in dunes. Make a journey to Jeuno and hit up Qufim and Delkfutts. Go on a journey across the three countriess to get those three keys, then fight in Kazham. (And learn SCs and maybe MBs. Almost everyone I know started learning how to SC there.), Crawlers nest, Garliage, Altepa, Kuftal, Wojaom, Aydeewa,(Or Bibiki, I made a few parties there for fun) Bhaflu, Caedarva. Each area was different, had a set of things that made them different from one another.
That's what I meant by flow, you had a steady sense of progression as you not only learned more about the world of FFXI, but more about your job abilities, how other jobs functioned with yours.

FFXI should evolve, but not sacrifice what gave it it's integrity. Speed up the level progression, raise some of the ungodly drop rates, and work with the balance of Risk vs Reward a bit better.
FoV and GoV are great additions, but the way they're used where you have around 18 people mass murdering EP mobs is a terrible, terrible way to balance a game.
Mind you I dont have rose tinted glasses in regards to FFXI of old. I know what it was, but rather than completely abandon ship, SE should have worked better with what -did- work, and try to minimalize what didnt.

You do realize that you don't have to go on a murder rampage with 18 people doing GoV? You can go do your normal xp party with 6 people set up and reap up good xp old school style - with much better xp gain compared to the good old days and yet can still retain the level of progression you want. The state of FFXI now has more options, better ways to do things, and you can almost tailor how you want to experience the game. A few balance adjustment is neccessary and I feel that they are trying but can only do so much with limited funds and bad direction from the man in charge. But overall the game is better because of the abyssea content.

However if all of you so yearn of the good old days - I suggest you try FF14, you will love the atrocity, unfriendly UI, totally unplayable classes (I am looking at you mages), and sloooooow progression, bewildered state, and many confusion in trying to play the game. It even come with a discounted rate and much better graphics. Go ahead and give it a try, it will make you appreciate all the things about FFXI today.

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD

Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD

Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

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i'll try flushing my head down the toilet first. they both make as much sense.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Have to assume the OP is a troll because he said it took Skill and Patience to play FFXI.

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Well, he's right about the patience part...

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD. Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

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You mean getting close to 400-600 xp per kill or more is not a good incentive? in 10 mnts you are getting 400x5 plus 2000 GoV bonus, more with xp bonus ring. It's about the same xp you are getting via GoV 18 people. It's just more works and require 5 other people who knows what they are doing. The reasons it's harder because you have to get the usual set up of tank + healers and do it old school ways :)

You don't learn your jobs by doing xp party grind these days, you learn your job by going to Abyssea and solo mobs or doing a small set up party fighting NMs for seals. That's a better way to learn anyway, since the mobs are a lot tougher and people need to understand a bit of basic team work to succeed.

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Originally Posted by Faustenin

I can agree and disagree with you. I was in highschool as well and had a lot more free time. There is no denying that FFXI is much more accesible, and I like that. I just think the shift was far too much, and way too fast.
By flow though, I mean there was a steady sense of progression not just character wise, but internally.
Start out soloing, start partying in dunes. Make a journey to Jeuno and hit up Qufim and Delkfutts. Go on a journey across the three countriess to get those three keys, then fight in Kazham. (And learn SCs and maybe MBs. Almost everyone I know started learning how to SC there.), Crawlers nest, Garliage, Altepa, Kuftal, Wojaom, Aydeewa,(Or Bibiki, I made a few parties there for fun) Bhaflu, Caedarva. Each area was different, had a set of things that made them different from one another.
That's what I meant by flow, you had a steady sense of progression as you not only learned more about the world of FFXI, but more about your job abilities, how other jobs functioned with yours.

FFXI should evolve, but not sacrifice what gave it it's integrity. Speed up the level progression, raise some of the ungodly drop rates, and work with the balance of Risk vs Reward a bit better.
FoV and GoV are great additions, but the way they're used where you have around 18 people mass murdering EP mobs is a terrible, terrible way to balance a game.
Mind you I dont have rose tinted glasses in regards to FFXI of old. I know what it was, but rather than completely abandon ship, SE should have worked better with what -did- work, and try to minimalize what didnt.

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I can see where you're coming from. I respect that and in a lot of ways you are right.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

You don't learn your jobs by doing xp party grind these days, you learn your job by going to Abyssea and solo mobs or doing a small set up party fighting NMs for seals. That's a better way to learn anyway, since the mobs are a lot tougher and people need to understand a bit of basic team work to succeed.

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Since we're in a "back in the day" thread....

You "got an understanding of your job and party dynamics" -BY- doing EXP parties. The role a THF versus DRG versus COR would play in a party was vastly different, and you learned the nuances of each combination through EXP parties.

To suggest that you need "small parties fighting NMs" as a way to learn a job is a dangerous, but relatively modern mentality. It also means that some NMs are grossly overpowered while others are... well, let's just say they're not notorious.

This is why you see many a Lv99 using sub-70 gear, because the "good gear or get out" requirement for defeating a lot of zones was negated by the raised level cap.

But I digress. EXP parties are dead, and considering the length of time FFXI has been out, and the lack of genuine (new players) joining the game, it's safe to say you can learn your job from your LS mates or FFXIclopedia just as well as EXP parties ever could, with a fraction of the time, too.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. People nowadays are not inherently "less" of a player because of how much easier it was for them to level up. But some people think that the gear and the EXP makes the player, and that anyone who does it easier is half-a-player.

You know what I miss about the good ol' days? All this shit we're doing used to be NEW and UNKNOWN. That's what we need! Adventure!

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

You know what I miss about the good ol' days? All this shit we're doing used to be NEW and UNKNOWN. That's what we need! Adventure!

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http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Omg...6a52e128c8.jpg

EDIT : Here's an idea SE. Make a new expansion. This new expansion will cater to the 99+.
It will be one massive gigantic dungeon, the size of every single CoP zone crammed into one, sprawling, hellish dungeon.
Puzzles. Riddles, Monsters with devilish AI and placement. Booby traps, and give absolutely no information about it. Make stuff random, so wiki is only half-reliable.

I'd assume you were being sarcastic, but I still find myself liking the idea. :P

Level-capped areas are (hopefully) never to be seen again, as my inventories just can't handle that kind of crap agian.
On the flip-side, however, make magic scrolls (if any new spells are introduced) RareEx so players who want it have to go get it, similar to how Armor/Weapons/WSs are for the rest.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

I'd assume you were being sarcastic, but I still find myself liking the idea. :P

Level-capped areas are (hopefully) never to be seen again, as my inventories just can't handle that kind of crap agian.
On the flip-side, however, make magic scrolls (if any new spells are introduced) RareEx so players who want it have to go get it, similar to how Armor/Weapons/WSs are for the rest.

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No sarcasm at all. I love myself a good dungeon crawl. I still like to try and Solo through Pso Xja, or Delkfutts as a low level and see how high I can climb. Or horutoto before they retarded up the mob levels.
Level capped areas were great when they had level sync.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

You "got an understanding of your job and party dynamics" -BY- doing EXP parties. The role a THF versus DRG versus COR would play in a party was vastly different, and you learned the nuances of each combination through EXP parties.

To suggest that you need "small parties fighting NMs" as a way to learn a job is a dangerous, but relatively modern mentality. It also means that some NMs are grossly overpowered while others are... well, let's just say they're not notorious.

This is why you see many a Lv99 using sub-70 gear, because the "good gear or get out" requirement for defeating a lot of zones was negated by the raised level cap.

But I digress. EXP parties are dead, and considering the length of time FFXI has been out, and the lack of genuine (new players) joining the game, it's safe to say you can learn your job from your LS mates or FFXIclopedia just as well as EXP parties ever could, with a fraction of the time, too.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. People nowadays are not inherently "less" of a player because of how much easier it was for them to level up. But some people think that the gear and the EXP makes the player, and that anyone who does it easier is half-a-player.

You know what I miss about the good ol' days? All this shit we're doing used to be NEW and UNKNOWN. That's what we need! Adventure!

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That depends, normal exp party set up is not your way to learn your job since they are "safe" environment. You end up doing the same thing over and over and it is one dimensional. Fighting NM in small party set up or solo-trio in abyssea is way much harder since everyone is doing a double duty - in the case of solo, you are doing triple duty everything. You learn more about your jobs in all the endgame contents since those require you to be "alert" and "awake". 6 people party set up is easy to have your mages fall asleep due to boredom. In any case not to say one way is better than the other, but bad players are still everywhere no matter what.

As for a lot of lvl 99 players wearing pink-pearle-teal gears...well it takes time to "grind" the gears now more than leveling up. Though all gears Af3+1 are very easy to farm in a couple hours a day should these people take some times to do. There is also VW side gears for those with enough gils to burn. The focus today is flexibility and versatility. This is a double edge sword since it takes time to learn some jobs more than others, and skilling up is definitely a problem with the fast leveling.

In the adventuring part - yeah that is kinda gone - unless you are incline to do the missions. Voidwatch in essence is "adventuring" - each one forces you to go to all these different places - and if you have not done your missions, those places are not accessible. Each VW NM also "a mystery" at least for a week or two until people find the strategy how to beat it - which is the case with old game contents as well. This game is a big massive GRIND in one way or another. It used to be about xp grind, now it's gear + weapon grind.

I think gear grinds are the best. Obviously they suck, but the grinds are (normally) reserved for items of epicness... such as the Relics used to me a multi-year conquest.

Personally, I think that FFXI is going to go one of two ways.

On the one hand, now that we have new grind-gear, SE could introduce more fulfilling storylines in forthcoming installments (read as: they don't necessarily need to be a full-on expansion pack, although it woudl be welcomed) with primary emphasis on content, not equipment.

Or,

FFXI will slowly die off as nothing "dramatically new" is introduced, players continue to level up, acquire everything they want, and quit the game (as we saw happen after people "finally" finished with their Relics).

Considering how long FFXI has been out, I think an overhaul to the graphics would be necessary, but not likely due to the lack of new blood coming to the game. FFXI is turning into the old FF's, in that players start it up to "relive" a game they beat long ago, knowing that everything is the same as it was.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

FFXI is turning into the old FF's,

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Of the "old FF's"

• All three 8-bit titles got graphics updates.
• All the cartridge-based titles got content/storyline additions.
• Final Fantasy IV even got what might even be called an "expansion pack" (released after WotG)

So falling into the "old FF" category isn't much of a bad thing.

Not bad at all... as long as you accept the fact that there will never be anything "new" to do that you haven't already done... which seems to be the major reason for all this nostalgia: no new content.