Back in the good ole days

[Luvbunny]

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

Actually they do know how to create instant fun gratification - Abyssea is the most popular example and the best one on how to create great contents. ToAU and CoP endgame to a degree but not as optimal as Abyssea. My main issue is how they want to bring everything back to pre-abyssea where people have to go 200-300 or more just to get a chance to get a drop. And you are not getting any measured progression whatsoever, just dumb luck if you get the gears, and mostly for other people, try try again. They could at least have a points for better gear where you can redeem them, and the sidegrade gears are just nice added bonus. This way people will go do them more for the points. But then you are running into "barance" issue... hence Legion and Neo Nyzul

[Mahoro]

Your argument only applies to Voidwatch, and is inapplicable to Neo-Nyzul or Legion.

1) You don't have to go 200-300 in Neo-Nyzul or Legion.

2) You CAN get measured progression in Neo-Nyzul with the recent update.

3) There is a points system in Legion. Albeit, one that nobody currently wants anything from, but IIRC they intend to patch it and tweak the event itself.

[Faustenin]

There is truth in what you say.
A challenge done right can be very rewarding and fun. Dark Souls does that pretty well but even there it's a delicate balance. One too many faceplants and the player gets frustrated. It's a lot harder that one would think to hit that sweet spot where it's just the right amount of challange/faceplant. lol

It really is the experience that people remember, not the gear. It's simply how the human memory works.
i.e. "Remember when LS X lost claim on Faffy at 1%? Bunzz voked and claimed. He 2hrd and killed it."
Nobody talks about the drops! XD

To address your closing statement-- I can't say that everyone talked to their LS or pm'd specific people between party invites but to be perfectly honest that was a small fraction of people.
I know a great deal of people who watched TV, did their chores, or did their homework. At the time, I was one of those people. It wasn't that they were having fun or a good experience it was that their experience of the game was put on hold by the fact that they had to wait hours upon hours, upon hours for an invites. Granted, certain jobs got invites faster than others but they were a select few.

I wouldn't say that this thread pisses me off... I just think the OP is delusional about what the "good ole days" really were. =\

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. But I genuinley think FFXI -had- that right balance of Sweet And Sour. (Like The one update where level sync and FoV came out.) The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

Also, after a while, did no one else get wise about waiting for invites?
Maybe I was a spoiled DRG, but theres a lot you can do besides sitting around andtalking to your LS while LFP.
Craft, solo some weaker mobs. Farm, dink around on the AH. Or my personal favorite, get a small trio of friends and fight some VTs-lower end ITs.

[Anapingofness]

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. But I genuinley think FFXI -had- that right balance of Sweet And Sour. (Like The one update where level sync and FoV came out.) The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

Also, after a while, did no one else get wise about waiting for invites?
Maybe I was a spoiled DRG, but theres a lot you can do besides sitting around andtalking to your LS while LFP.
Craft, solo some weaker mobs. Farm, dink around on the AH. Or my personal favorite, get a small trio of friends and fight some VTs-lower end ITs.

It's easy for me to look upon FFXI in the past with rose colored glasses. Despite the bitter aftertaste I still had a lot of fun in the game. It was in part due to me being in high school at the time and in part with the players I met.
Certainly, as I look back on it now I find myself wanting to agree with you. However, I don't think FFXI had that flow you were talking about. The lvling in FFXI was what took up most of everyone's time, not the content. Once the lvling was made easier it was easier to see how little content FFXI really had/has and how much of it is just dead content.

Ten years ago the market had a small handful of MMO's. Right now the market is saturated with 'em. SE is still stubbornly clinging to what it was like pre-WoW. The refusal to evolve with the times is what's killing this game.

[Luvbunny]

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

I for one, am very glad to be able to say to my other friends who play WoW, that FFXI now has the fastest way to lvl, it is so much easier now to level up all your jobs - then go back and learn all the nuances in Abyssea by soloing or within a small party set up. Abyssea is very fun to learn the jobs on your own, mix and match atmas, seeing what is possible with low man set up, collecting the shiny seals and plus 2 materials. Though I agree with you, there other things to do beside levelling up - and SE decided to do just that, made lvl up no brainer and ridiculously easy so now we have no excuse to complaint that it is very hard to make a party, etc.... Good riddance to be honest. The game is so much fun now. All they need to do is balancing these new contents and make it so that it's more on par with Abyssea level of fun.

[Faustenin]

It's easy for me to look upon FFXI in the past with rose colored glasses. Despite the bitter aftertaste I still had a lot of fun in the game. It was in part due to me being in high school at the time and in part with the players I met.
Certainly, as I look back on it now I find myself wanting to agree with you. However, I don't think FFXI had that flow you were talking about. The lvling in FFXI was what took up most of everyone's time, not the content. Once the lvling was made easier it was easier to see how little content FFXI really had/has and how much of it is just dead content.

Ten years ago the market had a small handful of MMO's. Right now the market is saturated with 'em. SE is still stubbornly clinging to what it was like pre-WoW. The refusal to evolve with the times is what's killing this game.

I can agree and disagree with you. I was in highschool as well and had a lot more free time. There is no denying that FFXI is much more accesible, and I like that. I just think the shift was far too much, and way too fast.
By flow though, I mean there was a steady sense of progression not just character wise, but internally.
Start out soloing, start partying in dunes. Make a journey to Jeuno and hit up Qufim and Delkfutts. Go on a journey across the three countriess to get those three keys, then fight in Kazham. (And learn SCs and maybe MBs. Almost everyone I know started learning how to SC there.), Crawlers nest, Garliage, Altepa, Kuftal, Wojaom, Aydeewa,(Or Bibiki, I made a few parties there for fun) Bhaflu, Caedarva. Each area was different, had a set of things that made them different from one another.
That's what I meant by flow, you had a steady sense of progression as you not only learned more about the world of FFXI, but more about your job abilities, how other jobs functioned with yours.

FFXI should evolve, but not sacrifice what gave it it's integrity. Speed up the level progression, raise some of the ungodly drop rates, and work with the balance of Risk vs Reward a bit better.
FoV and GoV are great additions, but the way they're used where you have around 18 people mass murdering EP mobs is a terrible, terrible way to balance a game.
Mind you I dont have rose tinted glasses in regards to FFXI of old. I know what it was, but rather than completely abandon ship, SE should have worked better with what -did- work, and try to minimalize what didnt.

[Luvbunny]

You do realize that you don't have to go on a murder rampage with 18 people doing GoV? You can go do your normal xp party with 6 people set up and reap up good xp old school style - with much better xp gain compared to the good old days and yet can still retain the level of progression you want. The state of FFXI now has more options, better ways to do things, and you can almost tailor how you want to experience the game. A few balance adjustment is neccessary and I feel that they are trying but can only do so much with limited funds and bad direction from the man in charge. But overall the game is better because of the abyssea content.

However if all of you so yearn of the good old days - I suggest you try FF14, you will love the atrocity, unfriendly UI, totally unplayable classes (I am looking at you mages), and sloooooow progression, bewildered state, and many confusion in trying to play the game. It even come with a discounted rate and much better graphics. Go ahead and give it a try, it will make you appreciate all the things about FFXI today.

[Faustenin]

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD

Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

[Zerich]

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD

Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

i'll try flushing my head down the toilet first. they both make as much sense.

[Rhianu]

Have to assume the OP is a troll because he said it took Skill and Patience to play FFXI.

Well, he's right about the patience part...