No more almost impossible to obtain crap please

I always saw the Relics and the Mythics something that was only designed for those who like to manipulate and use people for their own gains, cheat (buy Gil and bot for Gil and so on), and such.
No, I'm not saying everyone who did it are like that but that's not even the point. I don't understand why make items they do not intend to be obtained by most players.

Sure, it should take work to get these items, but there is a difference with challenge and virtually-impossible.
I was honestly amused when I read about these new trials for them.
They so clearly state that they don't want the players to have them, at all.
I really can't get my thoughts a round that concept, no matter how I try. It's unfair to the legit players, and unfair in that you need a lot of people/cheats to complete them within reasonable amount of time (earth-time), and only one character will get the prize in the end.

Well, I'm only glad I never really got into this all, even though I have kept every Dynamis-currency and occasionally buy some if it's cheap, I don't seriously think I will ever get any of these.
Not to forget how unimpressed I was after trying them on the test-server (not surprised though, it was just as what I expected).

All that said, it's not a surprise they don't intend people to get these items; they never did. ^^


I also figured what the Afterglow is all about: It's the tears of the character, tears of agony and sorrow, and everything it had to go through to get the item...

The afterglow effects are terrible, the only benefit is you look shiny (and didn't you already when people saw you with a relic weapon in the first place), and the trials are virtually impossible. Nobody is going to even attempt this, and even if they do, they're insane.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Aren't the high tier magian trials for relics/mythics/etc already exclusive enough as it is? do we really need to make a single trial at the end of these long, tiresome chains even more exclusive?

Really. Fair question.

PS: "Crap" is to be taken literally, as the new trials are both "impossible" and the result is crap.

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FFXI Official Forums "Where all the complainers go."

Square-Enix reminds me of the episode of southpark where the game company was taking their game too seriously.

Hard work okay, but treating in-game items like they are real shit you have to put years of work/time into, not to mention you absolutely cant do them alone... I'm sorry but that's not worth my time and i feel sorry for whoever sacrifices that much IRL for that little virtual tid bit. I just really hope if its going to take years to complete that after they complete it the game still gives them time to enjoy it before most players quit or they shutdown servers~

As for me, These trials aren't ever going to be worth my time i have a wife and a good job i put above everything in this game. And seeing as i only play 3-4 days a week for 4-5 hours a time when i'm lucky. SE pretty much made that decision for me which i dont think its THEIR decision to make but hey, its their game i just pay for it right...?

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Dude, we can read and my point still stands.

FFXI has an undermanned dev team who obviously are swamped with work because things are always delayed come version update time. We just heard that relic specific pets/magic are being 'reviewed' which translates to being postponed because they've prioritized something above it with regards to the workload.

What could possibly take precedence over relic specific pets/spells? A glow effect 0.005% of your base is going to obtain of course! /facepalm

Seriously? Things get canned or pushed back yet someone at SE was tasked to not only put together afterglows but also the insanity trials that accompany them. Does that sound like a good use of developer time? Developers that are already spread thin? I don't. I think it's stupid and completely showing a lack of priorities.

Now because someone at SE (Tana...someone) decided to prioritize an insanity level trial to get level99, SE now has to work backwards and duplicate work by creating non-afterglow relics/mythics/emps and design trials for these weapons because no one could realize that well.. a no-life tier trial was stupid to begin with.

This further pushes useful content back and keeps players waiting for whatever can then be trickled out. Time that could have been used to give Guttlers/Claustrum unique pets, time that could have been used to put a new healing spell on Mjollnir, time that could have been used to put Massacre Elegy on G.Horn, time that could have been used to make the game............*drumroll*.............. fun.

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Well first off, Obviously people cant read very well because they are STILL posting on various topics thinking that its takes what clearly is phase 2 requirements to get when some of us read as phase 1 requirements. Phase 1 is what gives the level 99 weapons stats buffs etc. People still are not getting this. So that is the reason I posted and bolded what I did.

Second, The dev team is small and we just have to deal with that fact that the game is 10 years old. Why should they have a massive dev team for a product that is this old when they can put resources into new products with current technology? Aside from FF14, they do have other projects whether its an MMO or any console / PC game. There will come a point where SE says we will not support FF11 anymore with content but that time hasn't come yet. If so many people are that unhappy with the game now and constantly over and over do nothing on these forums but complain why even play? Seriously, there are TONs of other games to play. Its like people in a bad marriage, if you hate the person your are with why would you stay with them? Move on already.

Don't get me wrong, I have my own issues with the game and I try my best to voice them on here also but they are game mechanics and things that should be fixed or balanced (orz I said it) out to make things more fair and enjoyable for everyone. Believe me I don't want to see the player base get smaller, but there comes a time when someone has to say enough I cant take it anymore and move on.

The dev team has given us a road map of their plans and told us what they are doing. They haven't even fixed the game mechanics to work properly and everyone wants more content so all those problems can just carry over into new zones and ruin the fun and give more frustration to players. I still enjoy the game as a whole and are very much looking forward to Legion, Salvage revamp and other things they have planned for us. Everyone is going to view things differently on the game.

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

Square-Enix reminds me of the episode of southpark where the game company was taking their game too seriously.

Hard work okay, but treating in-game items like they are real shit you have to put years of work/time into, not to mention you absolutely cant do them alone... I'm sorry but that's not worth my time and i feel sorry for whoever sacrifices that much IRL for that little virtual tid bit. I just really hope if its going to take years to complete that after they complete it the game still gives them time to enjoy it before most players quit or they shutdown servers~

As for me, These trials aren't ever going to be worth my time i have a wife and a good job i put above everything in this game. And seeing as i only play 3-4 days a week for 4-5 hours a time when i'm lucky. SE pretty much made that decision for me which i dont think its THEIR decision to make but hey, its their game i just pay for it right...?

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That just it you said it your self. Anyone that finish this will not be look up to in aw but looked down on in pitty.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Basically, the whole point of this thread is: If nobody is going to obtain this and the benefits of doing so are minimal at best, then why even bother to develop this content?

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JP gaming has always had a lot of basis in elitism. This game is nothing special in that regards.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

I always saw the Relics and the Mythics something that was only designed for those who like to manipulate and use people for their own gains, cheat (buy Gil and bot for Gil and so on), and such.
No, I'm not saying everyone who did it are like that but that's not even the point. I don't understand why make items they do not intend to be obtained by most players.

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Currently, excluding the new 99 trials, Relics are mostly easier for a small group of friends working together. If you can get 100 currency pieces a night between four people for example, you can get one person the currency for a relic in less then two months, or two people's currency in three. Basically even with two days off a week and a bit of cushion for vacations and such, you can get a group their relics in a year. In my opinion, that is obtainable for players who are between "casual" and "hardcore" while still rewarding teamwork, which is incredibly hard to do with a loot system.

The problem I mainly see with the afterglow trails is they are based on loot and not kills - basically, it rewards that greedy manipulation you talk about.

Twenty kills for the 99 weapon stats and two thousand for the afterglow would be a bit more fair for teamwork - the thing this game is supposed to be all about more then any other MMO - then having to fetch some stupid item a thousand times.

Perhaps I may be wrong, but a legendarily hard quest like that would probably be more acceptable to players if it rewarded teamwork rather then greed. Am I right?

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Currently, excluding the new 99 trials, Relics are mostly easier for a small group of friends working together. If you can get 100 currency pieces a night between four people for example, you can get one person the currency for a relic in less then two months, or two people's currency in three. Basically even with two days off a week and a bit of cushion for vacations and such, you can get a group their relics in a year. In my opinion, that is obtainable for players who are between "casual" and "hardcore" while still rewarding teamwork, which is incredibly hard to do with a loot system.

The problem I mainly see with the afterglow trails is they are based on loot and not kills - basically, it rewards that greedy manipulation you talk about.

Twenty kills for the 99 weapon stats and two thousand for the afterglow would be a bit more fair for teamwork - the thing this game is supposed to be all about more then any other MMO - then having to fetch some stupid item a thousand times.

Perhaps I may be wrong, but a legendarily hard quest like that would probably be more acceptable to players if it rewarded teamwork rather then greed. Am I right?

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Relics still carry a little bit of their past(yes not everyone boughtgil/dick LS users but there was more then enough that did). Mystics where not that bad cause it really didn't go over well for one person to hog all the alex since everyone had to spend the same amount of time burning assults.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Relics still carry a little bit of their past

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Definitely have a history, but the way things are currently is much better. That's all we can really change, which is why we have to fight the new anti-teamwork trials now that the call to arms has gone out. Honestly, I think SE is dead set on making a last stage of it be incredibly hard, and I can respect that - but only so long as the trials support teamwork, not greed.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The afterglow effects are terrible, the only benefit is you look shiny (and didn't you already when people saw you with a relic weapon in the first place), and the trials are virtually impossible. Nobody is going to even attempt this, and even if they do, they're insane.

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Wrong there, people will do these just for the fact they will glow.

AfterGlow is almost the same thing as Sphere people fight the same VWNM hundreds of times to get a body that has +1 more stats then the one you can buy off AH, But it Glows and gives a Sphere effect that you dont get at all, only the people near you.

the 99 weapons are the same thing as the VWNM Bodies. you put up with alot of work and you get alittle stat boost and you glow.

As someone who won't be affected by these trials in any way, shape or form, I'm still pretty disgusted by them.

They are the proverbial writing on the wall.

Walk of Echoes "Walk of Logs and No Spell Drops" comes to mind...

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

The high tier magic scrolls have been set to a somewhat higher difficulty to obtain, and it has not been balanced so that you are guaranteed to learn the spell as soon as you reach the proper level.

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Enough with the "difficult to obtain" and "only a few PCs will ever equip this" garbage.

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Wrong there, people will do these just for the fact they will glow.

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Take a look at those trials again. The Mythic one in particular is so absurd, you'd have to be on drugs or something to even consider attempting it. Best case scenario of playing almost nonstop, it will still take you years. I cast doubt that the game would still be running in the time it takes people to finish it.

Also, the sphere effects have a lower priority than aftermath effects (meaning they get overwritten by them and do not stack with them). If anyone else is using a super weapon, they will not benefit from the afterglow. The afterglow effects are nothing big, just like the sphere effects aren't. Making you glow is about the only thing you get out of it. You get all the damage and delay and other stuff on the easier trial- nobody in their right mind would even consider this.

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you put up with alot of work and you get alittle stat boost and you glow.

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It's not just "a lot" of work.
Estimated best case scenarios:
Empyreans: Possibly less than a year if everyone who does voidwatch with you gives you the items, probably at least 6+ months if you have unlimited gil and can buy all the items other people get. These are the most realistic and maybe some people will do them.
Relics: If you gather a pop set and pop ADL the same day, that's 1000 daily runs of dynamis with a full alliance, so like 2 and a half years. (This is roughly similar to the worst case scenario for the base relic was back in the day. Nowadays, anybody can probably get one in a span of several months). This is excessive but not quite ludicrous, considering how long it's taken people to get relics and get the trials up to this point done.
Mythics: By far the worst of all. "Mythic" is right. The weapons themselves are practically myths. Very few people have these weapons, and then they proceed to give them the worst final trials of all. It will take roughly several years to complete this one trial with the current parameters. It would have taken even longer if the pandy warden pop items weren't made 100%. All I can tell mythic people is: Not gonna happen.

Turn on those JP buttons folks, thats the only way to upgrade them weapons! No wait I'm wrong... time for the EGLS whore mithra to distribute full porn vids to their leaders to get that.

Trials just for a glow?! PUH-LEASE its easy to just use glowing weapon .dats...that look better too I might add.

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Originally Posted by Tohihroyu

Turn on those JP buttons folks, thats the only way to upgrade them weapons! No wait I'm wrong... time for the EGLS whore mithra to distribute full porn vids to their leaders to get that.

Trials just for a glow?! PUH-LEASE its easy to just use glowing weapon .dats...that look better too I might add.

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Actually, it's your character, not the weapon, that glows.

I tried them out on the test server (which is the only way anyone is ever going to see any of these afterglows, or at least the mythic ones)

3315 Ukonvasara Rare Ex
DMG:156
Delay:482 STR+20 "Ukko's Fury"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Afterglow (Increases critical hit rate)

So in the upcoming update, SE going to gimp "Most" WAR/MNK/PUP/etc... Critical hit rate then re~adding them to the Afterglow Trial to get them back....

Oh D: well Relic afterglow looks like your character has B.O. I'll stick with glowly weapon .dats

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Originally Posted by Krashport

3315 Ukonvasara Rare Ex
DMG:156
Delay:482 STR+20 "Ukko's Fury"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Afterglow (Increases critical hit rate)

So in the upcoming update, SE going to gimp "Most" WAR/MNK/PUP/etc... Critical hit rate then re~adding them to the Afterglow Trial to get them back....

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you dont get the effect of your own afterglow, only the people around you. so you dont get the crit rate boost

Also, if someone else has an afterglow and you're using a relic/mythic/empyrean, your Aftermath overwrites the afterglow effect even if it's not the same effect.

tl;dr. Add hard to obtain weapons is ok. They're not worth the effort.


To be honest, I kind of like that there's desired gear which is really hard to get again.

At LV90 in AbysseaLand, when I completed my LV90 weapon it was a really weird feeling to have gotten the best items for my job and play with nothing to aspire to achieve. Things got really dull.

However, it's also made me realise that back at LV75 when all of these Ultimate weapons were around which not many people had were really not as amazing as the effort we put in for it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The afterglow effects are terrible, the only benefit is you look shiny (and didn't you already when people saw you with a relic weapon in the first place), and the trials are virtually impossible. Nobody is going to even attempt this, and even if they do, they're insane.

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because SE loves seeing you guys QQ. if they are not that great they why worry about it? At least you will be able to most likely get 99 which is the important part. I sware its the same 10-20 ppl on the forums that do most of the bitching lol. when I talk to most of my friends in game most of them dont even care about the after glow there just happy with 99 lol. Most you guys on forums that complain and cry are mainly nothing but jokes. If your that unhappy about the game quit already Geesh. I bet you anything most ppl wont even care if you guys are gone. Now im gonna go back to my game where theres still a ton of my friends playing that aren't QQ over stupid stuff.

(waits for stupid troll face defensive comments to start flooding in)

You guys do realize those crazy trials for for Level 2, noone knows what the level 1 trials are yet.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

You guys do realize those crazy trials for for Level 2, no one knows what the level 1 trials are yet.

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These are only becoming the level 2 trials because everyone freaked out so much about them when they were first added to the test server. There originally was no level 1 or level 2, there was only 1 trial to get to 99.

People are complaining now because the dev team spent time to create trials that only 1-2 people per server per year will complete, instead of fixing problems effect far more people and have far larger consequences for the whole game.

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Originally Posted by pim-ptarutaru

because SE loves seeing you guys QQ. if they are not that great they why worry about it? At least you will be able to most likely get 99 which is the important part. I sware its the same 10-20 ppl on the forums that do most of the bitching lol. when I talk to most of my friends in game most of them dont even care about the after glow there just happy with 99 lol. Most you guys on forums that complain and cry are mainly nothing but jokes. If your that unhappy about the game quit already Geesh. I bet you anything most ppl wont even care if you guys are gone. Now im gonna go back to my game where theres still a ton of my friends playing that aren't QQ over stupid stuff.

(waits for stupid troll face defensive comments to start flooding in)

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The problem with this statement, is that if it wasn't for all those people QQing, the current 'stage 2' trials would of been the ONLY upgrade to go from 95 to 99.

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Originally Posted by Hercule

You say that, and you still play 25 years later, Zelda, Mario or Sonic...etc, that are the exact same game since 25 years, they're only got "graphics updates" and "gameplay update"...etc, but the BASE gameplay is still the same, FFXI is an online game that can be updated forever, i spent more than 1 irl life year in FFXI (According 1 year without sleep and not AFK, i play from 2004 with 1 year break pause in 2007), i dont have any reason to restart everything from zero to another MMORPG just for a graphic update or a little gameplay update, mainly if FFXI stay updated and i enjoy it,

For myself, I see no reason to replace old MMORPG if new are not a revolution, and they're actualy not

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i'm glad that you're such an expert knowing what games i play on a regular basis. not only are you implying you know what i do, you're also implying that the core gameplay of every game you just mentioned hasn't changed in slightest since the originals were conceived. not only this, all of those games are offline, therefore are irrelevant to this point. why you ask? because all of those games can be completely and thoroughly beaten within a few hours.

ffxi is an online game, as such online games require a certain amount of timesinks to keep players interested (read as "keep paying fees"). and timesinks are not a bad thing in alot of instances, but in this particular situation SE is only adding a timesink that almost nobody is going to bother with. if they introduce content that nobody but a select handful of ppl out of the thousands that play are even gonna bother with, they are going to lose costumers. if they lose enough costumers, they will cut their losses and the servers shut down. if the servers shut down due to SE not makin enough money, it won't matter that ffxi can be updated forever, as there won't be anyone playing.

all in all my original point still stands, redundant absurdity is redundantly absurd...

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I sware its the same 10-20 ppl on the forums that do most of the bitching lol.

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Because only 10-20 people post more than a few times on these forums.

Valid bitching is valid, and SE needs to stop making bullshiat.

I'd say emp weapons should have pretty difficult (but not impossible) trials. They're great weapons and far easier to get than Relic and Mythic. Relic and Mythic trials though should be pretty minor and reasonable. People with those weapons put in their time. They should not have those items that required an extraordinary time and gil investment downgraded by impossible quests.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

I'd say emp weapons should have pretty difficult (but not impossible) trials. They're great weapons and far easier to get than Relic and Mythic. Relic and Mythic trials though should be pretty minor and reasonable. People with those weapons put in their time. They should not have those items that required an extraordinary time and gil investment downgraded by impossible quests.

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This makes sense to me aswell.

Seriously guys, how do you all know that there wasn't 2 stages for the level 99 weapons to begin with? Just because it was on the test server as 1 stage doesn't mean anything. If you go there now there STILL isn't a trial to get to 99 phase 1. They wouldn't put that information in because they don't want people getting the requirements ready and all have 99 weapons done right away. They want people to wait. For instance if it was 20 DL pop sets for 99 phase 1, people would get 20 pop sets ready to go and after the update everyone would be cramming the DL pop spot. Notice that's DL not ADL.

You guys should all know by now they don't listen to this forums so please stop thinking they changed things because we bitched. We don't work at SE nor do we know what they are doing until updates are downloaded.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

I'd say emp weapons should have pretty difficult (but not impossible) trials. They're great weapons and far easier to get than Relic and Mythic. Relic and Mythic trials though should be pretty minor and reasonable. People with those weapons put in their time. They should not have those items that required an extraordinary time and gil investment downgraded by impossible quests.

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I agree with this. but now here comes the trolls saying Relics are easier. The can of worms you just opened lol...

I think that time could have been spent developing things for all players instead of a select few.

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Originally Posted by Unleashhell

I agree with this. but now here comes the trolls saying Relics are easier. The can of worms you just opened lol...

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Having just done the level 95 upgrade for Empy, yes. Yes relics are easier. At the very least you have to agree that the disparity in requirements between level 95 versions is not that great.

See, told you lol...

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Originally Posted by Vivik

I think that time could have been spent developing things for all players instead of a select few.

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Especially since, as they've told us, their manpower and resources for FFXI are very limited these days.

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Second, The dev team is small and we just have to deal with that fact that the game is 10 years old. Why should they have a massive dev team for a product that is this old when they can put resources into new products with current technology? Aside from FF14, they do have other projects whether its an MMO or any console / PC game.

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That is ~NOT~ how MMO's work. Their not a single player console game that you just release and make updates / patch's for. Their a service and need to be treated as such. The company is providing you an entertainment service in exchange for your monthly service fee. They take that money and use it to cover operational expenses and maintenance. They then should budget a portion of that money for future product development and whatever is left is considered profit. This is not what SE's been doing, their taking the lions share of your service fee and using it on development for FFXIV, a service your not paying for that has its own service fee. Their doing this when their primary service (FFXI) is in serious trouble of losing revenue due to lack of development. ~Every~ MMO that has done this has failed, just look up EA's "Earth and Beyond". EnB was a good game, had a good crafting system and a remarkable XP / leveling system. It's failure was that the developers didn't develop it, they just kinda made it and planned on getting all this EQ style money without having to put in the effort. Thus eventually players got bored and moved on.

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Originally Posted by saevel

That is ~NOT~ how MMO's work. Their not a single player console game that you just release and make updates / patch's for. Their a service and need to be treated as such. The company is providing you an entertainment service in exchange for your monthly service fee. They take that money and use it to cover operational expenses and maintenance. They then should budget a portion of that money for future product development and whatever is left is considered profit. This is not what SE's been doing, their taking the lions share of your service fee and using it on development for FFXIV, a service your not paying for that has its own service fee. Their doing this when their primary service (FFXI) is in serious trouble of losing revenue due to lack of development. ~Every~ MMO that has done this has failed, just look up EA's "Earth and Beyond". EnB was a good game, had a good crafting system and a remarkable XP / leveling system. It's failure was that the developers didn't develop it, they just kinda made it and planned on getting all this EQ style money without having to put in the effort. Thus eventually players got bored and moved on.

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Do you work at SE? Do you know first hand what they do with their money? I highly doubt it. It is their money to do whatever they want with it. Is makes no sense for a business to keep 100% original resources onto a 10+ year old product. If that was the case there would be no upgrades to anything hardware or software based. We would still be using Windows 95 with your statements. You should be happy SE even supports FF11 anymore. Just because your paying a monthly fee doesn't mean they should throw an alliance of resources at a 10 year old product. Do you think the support team for windows XP is as large as it was when it first came out? No it isn't because people moved on to newer OS.

Business are there to make money, and how do you make money? You create new and improved products. Not all products are a success, in this case FF14. But does that mean they should just give up and say ok we are done lets put all resources back to a 10 year old product? Think of it like having a car, automakers make new cars every year with improvements to existing models or completely redesign them. They don't just make the same car for 10+ years with no improvements or redesigns what so ever. You need innovation to push forward not sit on old products.

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Originally Posted by Unleashhell

Do you work at SE? Do you know first hand what they do with their money? I highly doubt it. It is their money to do whatever they want with it. Is makes no sense for a business to keep 100% original resources onto a 10+ year old product. If that was the case there would be no upgrades to anything hardware or software based. We would still be using Windows 95 with your statements. You should be happy SE even supports FF11 anymore. Just because your paying a monthly fee doesn't mean they should throw an alliance of resources at a 10 year old product. Do you think the support team for windows XP is as large as it was when it first came out? No it isn't because people moved on to newer OS.

Business are there to make money, and how do you make money? You create new and improved products. Not all products are a success, in this case FF14. But does that mean they should just give up and say ok we are done lets put all resources back to a 10 year old product? Think of it like having a car, automakers make new cars every year with improvements to existing models or completely redesign them. They don't just make the same car for 10+ years with no improvements or redesigns what so ever. You need innovation to push forward not sit on old products.

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Are you daft, or just ignorant of business's in general?

It has NOTHING to do with the age of the product. Consumers have a demand, you supply that demand and thus create a revenue stream. You continue to provide that supply for as long as there's enough demand to warrant a profit. Not providing that supply will lead to the demand going elsewhere and thus less profits for you.

They still sell monopoly and risk, those are both much older then 10yrs and they still make money. They sell those games because there is a demand that is profitable to supply. The original Everquest is still going, their still supplying that demand and making and profit off it. It makes no sense not to supply the demand of a 10yr old game.

Now let me school you about product development, cause I actually do some of this for a living.

The highest cost sink isn't in the maintenance of the game, but the initial development to go from concept to design to the actual key pounding of code. MMO's don't make profits in their first year or so due to this fact. It costs tons of money to develop the original game mechanics, design the artwork, assign the various mechanics and so forth. Create all the models and animations, build your server side software, work out the bugs in your backend databases.

Now all of these are sunk costs, their costs you can't immediately pass onto the consumer as it would price your product out of the market and you must accept them as an investment in the future of your product. After the first couple of years you'll end up making the original investment back and then your operating on pure profit from that point on. Any money left over after maintenance and operations expense's can be spent on product development and pocketed as profit.

Starting over again, aka making a new MMO, means you must start back at year one sunk costs all over again. Discontinuing or failing to maintain and develop for a product that is already banking you tons of money is a very very bad business decision. Especially if your doing it to develop a "new" MMO from scratch, which will just cost you more money. This is why Blizzard didn't make "WoW 2" and instead decided to further develop the original WoW. In the long run it costs them less to develop and expand on their original product then it does to sink money into a "new" product and hope people go for their bait. When they made EQ2 they though all the players would jump over, and while some did most did not. This was a very harsh lesson that needed to be learned. Players do not like switching MMO's like they do cars and they do not develop a brand loyalty to MMO's like they do. Each and every MMO is treated like a separate product and has a separate player base. No matter what it's name is or who developed it.

Without the impossible to obtain crap we get the whiners saying content is to easy.

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Originally Posted by Unleashhell

See, told you lol...

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I only responded since you asked. But it's true.