Who ever got six-person parties in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

We have different definitions of "good DD jobs"

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Well i played with a full stuffed + tizona BLU not a random one

So you're comparing a "full stuffed" blu to shit dds then. That doesn't make blu able to out-damage good DDs

No, i just wanted to say its not because you was BLU that maded so hard to find an exp group on LV 75, the gap is not that big,
This was most a mentality problem from players that wanted only SAM, DRG and WAR

i played since japanese release so i been on partys for long time

Once again, I must post my princess brd image from the good old days, where I cared not for DRK or PLD parties.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/500/img00517kl.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

One may ask "what makes you feel you're so special that others will want to willingly lower their exp/hr to compensate for you"

For me, the question to that answer is if you are my friend, I don't mind what job you come on.

For random people, that answer is sorry, not happening

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This in a fucking nutshell. My 1st 75 was RDM which I hit at the Ullikummi camp with friends. Was much fun.

+1 me too


Seriouslly, the birdy party princesses were the same turds who wanted the game to be harder again because it made it so only a few people would have maxed merits and then they could be special again. Now they are all upset cause their old gear is worth snot, and anyone with 3-4 friends can get the same gear they suckered 18-72 people out of for 2+ years.

I started with ToAU and have been pup main mnk second since then, and I got to say, me + my pet could easily keep up with any mnk in a bird party, but no one ever wanted to count pet as part of PUPs dd add in full attachments and SP and it was no question that I was just as good as any 'great' dd.

It was very much an 'elite' crew onry type setup, and I gotta say I am super glad that way off life is over, because the idea of a few people benefiting from the work of many is really sad/lame and probably the main reason abyssea took off so well. It ment those other 17-71 people farming 'you' items were also gettings fair treatment and good gear.


I wont argue that the avg abyssea exp alliance is mostly slackers.

I would say 1/3 are perma-afk or leechs (wtf is up with leechs not keying now?)
1/3 actually there helping
1/3 semi-afk / contributing now and then / were level 30 leechs and are not level 60 -cant-hit-anythings

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-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.

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What I ususally see is
- 1 or 2 people of low level spending 100s of K cruor on keys and running around opening them all
- 4-5 people in the 70s/80s trying to fight and maybe not doing a great job of it, but arent afk- there's nothing wrong with these people being here
- maybe 1-2 people afk
- rest active and <10 levels off cap or capped and grinding merits

I have never seen "25% of a party" be very low levels nor have I ever seen "25%" of the party be AFK. whatever low levels are in the party are generally doing an important job that contributes to the group.

The funny thing about the princess people is that they would often stand around in town for 2-3 hours waiting for that perfect party set up. Then go party for 2-3 hours getting 30k+ /hr exp. and it would never occur to them that they were actually getting exp slower than in a crap party. Sometimes I would go merit with LS mates, cap merits, come back and the same friggin sam or bard that I invited when I started the party is still standing in town with his flag up.

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Originally Posted by Hercule

For myself what i see is:

-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.

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What I see is:
1-2 keyers
14-15 leeches (afk/low level/awful gear)
1-2 actual decent players who pull the entire weight of the alliance.

Regardless, it's still the best way to exp hands down. We're not weighed down by awful gear, awful levels, or lack of skill anymore. No longer must we wait thirty minutes for some guy (usually the white mage, tank, or puller) to order pizza. And no longer must we spend four hours trying to find the right jobs only to have the one possible option log on and tell us no.

Besides, most of the people who have a problem against Abyssea exp are the people who are weighing the alliance down. Maybe these complainers think Abyssea exp is too easy because they haven't taken the proper time themselves outside of it to learn their job?

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Originally Posted by Hercule

Player nowadays are so lazy they want to get all stuff without any work.

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Same people who complain Abyssea exp is too easy -- these people don't have the armor, yet they complain that it's so easy to get.

Or do you mean botting HNMs is "work"?

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Originally Posted by Hercule

On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one

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.... No. Did you even play FFXI before Abyssea came out?

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Originally Posted by Hercule

On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one.

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http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...a/uchihaha.gif

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Or do you mean botting HNMs is "work"?



.... No. Did you even play FFXI before Abyssea came out?

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lol This.

I have a friend who had full Adaman set, BB, ridill, dalmy, pretty much everything but D ring. He wasn't even there most of the time. He would leave his bots running, and have his ls mates pass loot, or log him out after. Only requires a few people to actually be present.

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14-15 leeches (afk/low level/awful gear)

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People that are fighting and are at least high enough to have reasonable accuracy (Atmas and stat boosts mean you can be a fair bit lower than you would have to be outside of abyssea.

I've NEVER met an alliance (except for paid arrangements where one guy is Charged Whiskering or Cleaving clusters of monsters and people are paying like 250k to leech exp on it) where "14-15" people were leeches. A lot of people claim to have this AFK problem, I've yet to be in a party in this update that had more than one or two people AFK at any given time- Most people dont tolerate it and if you're AFK for more than a few minutes without saying something, you usually get kicked. People that are of level and have crap gear are not leeches. They're doing the best they can and/or they are newer and are trying to cap their level before they try to buff up their character. The only people who qualify as leeches are those who are doing nothing to contribute, e.g. people who are AFK.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

People that are fighting and are at least high enough to have reasonable accuracy (Atmas and stat boosts mean you can be a fair bit lower than you would have to be outside of abyssea.

I've NEVER met an alliance (except for paid arrangements where one guy is Charged Whiskering or Cleaving clusters of monsters and people are paying like 250k to leech exp on it) where "14-15" people were leeches. A lot of people claim to have this AFK problem, I've yet to be in a party in this update that had more than one or two people AFK at any given time- Most people dont tolerate it and if you're AFK for more than a few minutes without saying something, you usually get kicked. People that are of level and have crap gear are not leeches. They're doing the best they can and/or they are newer and are trying to cap their level before they try to buff up their character. The only people who qualify as leeches are those who are doing nothing to contribute, e.g. people who are AFK.

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This is basically what I have seen too. Worst thing I've run into is new players that don't know better running off and killing the wrong mobs, or not calling for help on murex and elementals.

You need to party more.

Heroes EXP in particular becomes a leech cluster where most people are 'wc' near the Tacticians, one person is pulling 5-6 bluffs every once in a while and heads are mysteriously moving to target the Tactician to collect EXP.

YOU ARENT AFK. I CAN SEE YOU MOVE. :D

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

You need to party more.

Heroes EXP in particular becomes a leech cluster where most people are 'wc' near the Tacticians, one person is pulling 5-6 bluffs every once in a while and heads are mysteriously moving to target the Tactician to collect EXP.

YOU ARENT AFK. I CAN SEE YOU MOVE. :D

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I can't stand that camp. I don't see any reason to go there other than to leech. The mobs are too far apart, there's always another party, or a bunch of soloers screwing up pulls, and the mobs die too fast to get any skill-ups.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I've NEVER met an alliance (except for paid arrangements where one guy is Charged Whiskering or Cleaving clusters of monsters and people are paying like 250k to leech exp on it) where "14-15" people were leeches. A lot of people claim to have this AFK problem, I've yet to be in a party in this update that had more than one or two people AFK at any given time- Most people dont tolerate it and if you're AFK for more than a few minutes without saying something, you usually get kicked. People that are of level and have crap gear are not leeches. They're doing the best they can and/or they are newer and are trying to cap their level before they try to buff up their character. The only people who qualify as leeches are those who are doing nothing to contribute, e.g. people who are AFK.

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I disagree. Leech to me is someone who isn't pulling their weight in a group. They can be level 99, have awful pink gear, and still be a leech. If they are there to deal damage and their damage output is low then they are a leech. If they are there to cure and people are dying constantly then they are a leech.

The thing is I don't mind leeches. We all have to start somewhere. And really, how many people go back to parties when they have capped out everything they need capped on a job? So yeah, parties are generally created for people who are still working towards bettering their job and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as people don't think they're amazing players just because they ding 90+ then I'm cool.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

You need to party more.

Heroes EXP in particular becomes a leech cluster where most people are 'wc' near the Tacticians, one person is pulling 5-6 bluffs every once in a while and heads are mysteriously moving to target the Tactician to collect EXP.

YOU ARENT AFK. I CAN SEE YOU MOVE. :D

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Actually I refuse to EXP in non-heroes areas, and I don't see this. Sometimes there's one or two person who's "AFK" near the Op NPC for a long time (you can see their head turn when they talk to the NPC if they're not really AFK), but they eventually get kicked if they don't come back / don't start contributing. Most of my parties have gone very well. The only ones that have been really slow, were because a second (or third) group showed up to do the same Ops and making it harder to claim stuff.

I wouldn't use the letting people die, I do that all the time with people that refuse to listen when I tell them not run to far off to solo their own mobs. I also do it to wars that think they can FC when we are not doing a FC and im the only healer or the only whm.

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I disagree. Leech to me is someone who isn't pulling their weight in a group. They can be level 99, have awful pink gear, and still be a leech. If they are there to deal damage and their damage output is low then they are a leech. If they are there to cure and people are dying constantly then they are a leech.

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This times 4000

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

I wouldn't use the letting people die, I do that all the time with people that refuse to listen when I tell them not run to far off to solo their own mobs. I also do it to wars that think they can FC when we are not doing a FC and im the only healer or the only whm.

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There's nothing wrong with running off to solo. I prefer soloing my monsters as black mage, actually. If I get low on health and want a cure I will come back to the white mage. If not, I know how to use Potions, Dusty Elixirs, and Convert/Manawall/Manafont/Manawell to my advantage. In that kind of situation if I die I only blame myself.

I was referring more to a certain white mage level 70+ I know who only cured himself once an entire 3 hour long GoV party. Of course he died several times as well as the rest of the party. This is an example of a leech healer.

Maybe you guys could apply another derogatory term like mediocre, or shitty, or lame, or noob. Leeching implies that the other person isn't contributing, but rather just reaping the rewards. Pink people contribute, and in all likelihood work just as hard as the well geared. They just don't contribute as much due to shitty gear / skills. There's always going to be 1 guy who has better gear than anyone else. That doesn't mean everyone else is a leech (it's very unlikely that that guy soloed all his gear, or merits either, so he was a "leech" at some point too). When you say leech in this sense, it sounds like your describing a level 30 whm mule who is not using keys.

If you reap more reward than what you contribute, it is a parasitic relationship. Leech works just fine.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

If you reap more reward than what you contribute, it is a parasitic relationship. Leech works just fine.

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Then every player in the game is a leech. Kinda makes calling someone a leech meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

This times 4000

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That times negative 839758934. People who are leveling up jobs for the first time aren't going to have uberl33t gear. That doesn't mean they aren't contributing by putting their best effort forward. They are NOT leeching unless they are specifically doing nothing.

By your definition, every player that isn't as good as you is a "leech." Leech is a negative derogatory term aimed at someone who is not contributing to something and only there to get something for nothing.

People who are fighting, actively playing, even if its their first job and pink is all they have, are not leeching.

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Then every player in the game is a leech. Kinda makes calling someone a leech meaningless.

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THIS times 9000.

If you want to be technical, leech is a term for an animal. Other than that, you have your definition for leech and I have mine. When I say leech, the majority of the people are going to know what I'm referring to. If you want to call it mediocre or any other word, that's fine by me, but I'm sticking to my guns

not that i miss the 6 party set up, i do miss the "getting to party with a small group of ppl" from lvl10 in the dunes, qufim, jungle and the desert. it was fun leveling up with ppl that way, you get to see them level up and vise ver sa. but for me thats the only thing i miss.
i didnt particularly liked LFP as a DRK back in the day.

Protip guys: Most players in this game are leeches.

How do you think the majority of older linkshells were set up back in the day? You'd have one solid leader and about 4-5 core players who were actually good at the game, followed by 15-20 leeches who were there to fill up space and either link up bots or fill out the alliance.

The "Hurr Durr I'm helping even though I'm contributing less than 5% of what the guy next to me is" sentiment is bullshit. Oh, it's the thought that counts you say? Also bullshit. Yes, you're right, this makes the vast majority of players leeches. And you know what? That's very true. The vast majority of players just leech off of the strengths and aptitude of those around them. These are the same people who couldn't beat the god damn level break, you realize this right?

I could give a shit less if 14 people in the alliance are actually attacking things if their combined damage comes out to less than 20% of mine. When that happens, everyone there is leeching off of me - they're reaping rewards from my effort while contributing absolutely nothing of value in return. That is a leech, pure and simple. Do I mind people leeching off me these days? Not really. It's not like it's hurting me all too much considering it's much harder to find another half-decent player to split the workload with than it is to just let people leech. But don't you dare try to infer that these people are pulling their weight. They are absolutely not.

You, Anal, and the cadre of freedom fighters on these boards are the ones giving the most severely negative connotation to the word leech. No one else cares if people leech. We simply care that you recognize that you're leeching, rather than pretending that your shit doesn't stink.

If a player on their first 99 didn't want to leech, they'd go out and farm a bajillion gil and get some uberleet gear and atmas and abyssites before setting foot in an exp party. If they wanted to pull their weight, they'd need to prepare themselves to pull their own god damn weight. Sitting around making up excuses for doing 0.5% of the parse is bullshit. That's a leech, and if they have a problem with being a leech then they can get the fuck out and go home.

Everyone leeches. Damn near everyone's a leech. If you're not pulling your weight, accept that and move the fuck on. We certainly don't care. We exp anyways. But you can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to be proud of yourself, then be something you can actually be proud of - otherwise it's just a bunch of hot air.

It took blanking forever but i got 6 man pties yeah though my best memories are of bst not needing pties but thats kinda off topic.

OK, seriously guys. Where are you meriting at that damage is an issue these day? I spend half my time in merit / xp parties running around trying to find something to kill because the shit dies so fast.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

OK, seriously guys. Where are you meriting at that damage is an issue these day? I spend half my time in merit / xp parties running around trying to find something to kill because the shit dies so fast.

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Despite appearances, even Abyssea parties can range from 150k/hr to 450k/hr, depending primarily on the quality of the DDs present. Post-genkai when a lot more solid players were out exp'ing (as always, you remember the 95 cap increase), I was able to cap Last Stand and Tachi: Shoha in about 4 hours total. Attainment was consistently clocking 450k/hr despite my dumping merits and resetting my chain every 30 merits.

200k/hr is nice and is about average for a gimp-ass exp party with 1 decent DD in it, but throw 3-5 good DDs into the mix and you'll pull more than twice that much. There is definitely room to improve.

Old zones are better imo primarily because time isn't wasted checking in the NPC for an EXP reward.

I don't know, it's really not that cut and dry. For example: The other night I leveled NIN 95-99 and did 5/5 Shijin. then I swapped jobs to Sam. Another guy who was keying switched to war and started raping stuff. I came back on my gimpy newly leveled Sam, and skilled with LOL Soboro for about 25 more levels until I could use Shoha which one shots worms even with that gimpy weapon. At one point or another, everyone was contributing more or less.

When we reach a point where people have everything leveled, etc. and an ally consists of 17 relic holders, and that one pink guy... then you can call him a leech, but until then, I see it as a fact that everyone has shit they need to skill / level still. People have the option to kick people that suck. I know I have used it my fair share of times. I'm sure people joke about their friend coming on w/e new job he's working on instead of his empyrian monk, but I highly doubt that you really feel like he's leeching off you. This is just splitting hairs here really.

Seriously though, what camps are people using? I've yet to find one where we aren't running around looking for repops when everyones on well geared jobs.

Misareaux bugards can easily hit 450k-500k/hr or higher when you're killing things as soon as they spawn. Worms are spread out and Bluffaloes are absolutely terrible, just for the record.

If I come on an lolJob with a crappy weapon and no combat skill and I'm not doing much damage, then I'm leeching at that point in time. There's nothing wrong with it, but it is leeching. I am leeching exp and cruor while skilling up and not contributing to the group. People are running away from that word, but that's what it is straight up.

Like I said, I could care less if a few people leech. Most people are leeches anyways. When everyone's a leech, parties die because they don't have anyone to leech off of. When there's a 17:1 ratio of leech : player, then parties are underperforming. But you can still hit a nice amount of exp in Abyssea with a 2:1 ratio.

I just loathe the "It's the thought that counts, no one's a leech if they're not afk" mentality because it's absolute horseshit. If you're going to leech that's fine but at least own up to it.

Its not so much that I wanna run away from it, but its a term that's already associated with another far more annoying tactic which is standing there doing nothing. It's fine if you think not being on the best DD job available is a form of leeching, but when people use the term like that in the forum, it's hard to tell what they mean.

Saying every party has like 10 leeches sounds terrible when people think that there are 10 level 30-50 players sitting there dozing. But then we find out its really 10 guys that haven't fully upgraded their relics, or gotten all +2s yet. I think that kind of disparity is using the term a little too loosely. Call them Gimp or something. It's more concise.

People who stand around and do nothing? I'd sooner call them clients than leeches. They still pull their weight in the form of paying me to be able to stand there. I'd rather do that and get money than have someone who isn't paying, "trying" and doing less than 1% of the damage

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

People who stand around and do nothing? I'd sooner call them clients than leeches. They still pull their weight in the form of paying me to be able to stand there. I'd rather do that and get money than have someone who isn't paying, "trying" and doing less than 1% of the damage

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OK, Your super good, and everyone else can only do %1 of the damage when your around. Congratulations.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

OK, Your super good, and everyone else can only do %1 of the damage when your around. Congratulations.

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Not at all, plenty of people can do the same or more damage than me within reasonable values.

It's not hard to parse over 1-4%. That's my issue. If you're not in that group, why would anyone want to keep you

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Its not so much that I wanna run away from it, but its a term that's already associated with another far more annoying tactic which is standing there doing nothing. It's fine if you think not being on the best DD job available is a form of leeching, but when people use the term like that in the forum, it's hard to tell what they mean.

Saying every party has like 10 leeches sounds terrible when people think that there are 10 level 30-50 players sitting there dozing. But then we find out its really 10 guys that haven't fully upgraded their relics, or gotten all +2s yet. I think that kind of disparity is using the term a little too loosely. Call them Gimp or something. It's more concise.

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Except, by definition, they're leeching. I realize that this may cause some confusion, but that's a conflation of terms really. I see absolutely no difference, in my eyes, between the people standing around doing nothing and the people parsing 1% or less. They're both contributing the same thing: jack squat.

The issue here seems to stem from people associating standing leeches as "Bad" while simultaneously wanting to label gimp leeches as "Well-intentioned". You can't really do that. The net gain each of these types brings to a party is the same: Practically nothing.

Standing leeches really aren't bad, though. If anything, they're more honest with themselves than gimp leeches. The vicious negative connotation associated with Leeching is most certainly not coming from me.

The most vicious "anti-leech" posters on these forums are almost always gimp leeches themselves who want to feel like they have the moral high ground over their standing cousins. Truth is, they don't, and they know it. That's why they scream so loudly.

Note that I'm not referring to Frank, he's a pretty cool guy and is certainly not gimp.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Except, by definition, they're leeching. I realize that this may cause some confusion, but that's a conflation of terms really. I see absolutely no difference, in my eyes, between the people standing around doing nothing and the people parsing 1% or less. They're both contributing the same thing: jack squat.

The issue here seems to stem from people associating standing leeches as "Bad" while simultaneously wanting to label gimp leeches as "Well-intentioned". You can't really do that. The net gain each of these types brings to a party is the same: Practically nothing.

Standing leeches really aren't bad, though. If anything, they're more honest with themselves than gimp leeches. The vicious negative connotation associated with Leeching is most certainly not coming from me.

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Eh, I don't know, its just an exaggerated use of the term in order to make another group of people sound worse than they really are. I mean by the definition of the word, most sales people, politicians, and religious leaders are whores, but calling them that makes for a really confusing conversation, especially when it involves all three at once. Not that I don't do it anyways from time to time just to amuse myself. :P

Lets just call them what they are. Bad players.