Who ever got six-person parties in the first place?

[Greatguardian]

OK, seriously guys. Where are you meriting at that damage is an issue these day? I spend half my time in merit / xp parties running around trying to find something to kill because the shit dies so fast.

Despite appearances, even Abyssea parties can range from 150k/hr to 450k/hr, depending primarily on the quality of the DDs present. Post-genkai when a lot more solid players were out exp'ing (as always, you remember the 95 cap increase), I was able to cap Last Stand and Tachi: Shoha in about 4 hours total. Attainment was consistently clocking 450k/hr despite my dumping merits and resetting my chain every 30 merits.

200k/hr is nice and is about average for a gimp-ass exp party with 1 decent DD in it, but throw 3-5 good DDs into the mix and you'll pull more than twice that much. There is definitely room to improve.

[Sparthos]

Old zones are better imo primarily because time isn't wasted checking in the NPC for an EXP reward.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't know, it's really not that cut and dry. For example: The other night I leveled NIN 95-99 and did 5/5 Shijin. then I swapped jobs to Sam. Another guy who was keying switched to war and started raping stuff. I came back on my gimpy newly leveled Sam, and skilled with LOL Soboro for about 25 more levels until I could use Shoha which one shots worms even with that gimpy weapon. At one point or another, everyone was contributing more or less.

When we reach a point where people have everything leveled, etc. and an ally consists of 17 relic holders, and that one pink guy... then you can call him a leech, but until then, I see it as a fact that everyone has shit they need to skill / level still. People have the option to kick people that suck. I know I have used it my fair share of times. I'm sure people joke about their friend coming on w/e new job he's working on instead of his empyrian monk, but I highly doubt that you really feel like he's leeching off you. This is just splitting hairs here really.

Seriously though, what camps are people using? I've yet to find one where we aren't running around looking for repops when everyones on well geared jobs.

[Greatguardian]

Misareaux bugards can easily hit 450k-500k/hr or higher when you're killing things as soon as they spawn. Worms are spread out and Bluffaloes are absolutely terrible, just for the record.

If I come on an lolJob with a crappy weapon and no combat skill and I'm not doing much damage, then I'm leeching at that point in time. There's nothing wrong with it, but it is leeching. I am leeching exp and cruor while skilling up and not contributing to the group. People are running away from that word, but that's what it is straight up.

Like I said, I could care less if a few people leech. Most people are leeches anyways. When everyone's a leech, parties die because they don't have anyone to leech off of. When there's a 17:1 ratio of leech : player, then parties are underperforming. But you can still hit a nice amount of exp in Abyssea with a 2:1 ratio.

I just loathe the "It's the thought that counts, no one's a leech if they're not afk" mentality because it's absolute horseshit. If you're going to leech that's fine but at least own up to it.

[FrankReynolds]

Its not so much that I wanna run away from it, but its a term that's already associated with another far more annoying tactic which is standing there doing nothing. It's fine if you think not being on the best DD job available is a form of leeching, but when people use the term like that in the forum, it's hard to tell what they mean.

Saying every party has like 10 leeches sounds terrible when people think that there are 10 level 30-50 players sitting there dozing. But then we find out its really 10 guys that haven't fully upgraded their relics, or gotten all +2s yet. I think that kind of disparity is using the term a little too loosely. Call them Gimp or something. It's more concise.

[Cream_Soda]

People who stand around and do nothing? I'd sooner call them clients than leeches. They still pull their weight in the form of paying me to be able to stand there. I'd rather do that and get money than have someone who isn't paying, "trying" and doing less than 1% of the damage

[FrankReynolds]

People who stand around and do nothing? I'd sooner call them clients than leeches. They still pull their weight in the form of paying me to be able to stand there. I'd rather do that and get money than have someone who isn't paying, "trying" and doing less than 1% of the damage

OK, Your super good, and everyone else can only do %1 of the damage when your around. Congratulations.

[Cream_Soda]

OK, Your super good, and everyone else can only do %1 of the damage when your around. Congratulations.

Not at all, plenty of people can do the same or more damage than me within reasonable values.

It's not hard to parse over 1-4%. That's my issue. If you're not in that group, why would anyone want to keep you

[Greatguardian]

Its not so much that I wanna run away from it, but its a term that's already associated with another far more annoying tactic which is standing there doing nothing. It's fine if you think not being on the best DD job available is a form of leeching, but when people use the term like that in the forum, it's hard to tell what they mean.

Saying every party has like 10 leeches sounds terrible when people think that there are 10 level 30-50 players sitting there dozing. But then we find out its really 10 guys that haven't fully upgraded their relics, or gotten all +2s yet. I think that kind of disparity is using the term a little too loosely. Call them Gimp or something. It's more concise.

Except, by definition, they're leeching. I realize that this may cause some confusion, but that's a conflation of terms really. I see absolutely no difference, in my eyes, between the people standing around doing nothing and the people parsing 1% or less. They're both contributing the same thing: jack squat.

The issue here seems to stem from people associating standing leeches as "Bad" while simultaneously wanting to label gimp leeches as "Well-intentioned". You can't really do that. The net gain each of these types brings to a party is the same: Practically nothing.

Standing leeches really aren't bad, though. If anything, they're more honest with themselves than gimp leeches. The vicious negative connotation associated with Leeching is most certainly not coming from me.

The most vicious "anti-leech" posters on these forums are almost always gimp leeches themselves who want to feel like they have the moral high ground over their standing cousins. Truth is, they don't, and they know it. That's why they scream so loudly.

Note that I'm not referring to Frank, he's a pretty cool guy and is certainly not gimp.

[FrankReynolds]

Except, by definition, they're leeching. I realize that this may cause some confusion, but that's a conflation of terms really. I see absolutely no difference, in my eyes, between the people standing around doing nothing and the people parsing 1% or less. They're both contributing the same thing: jack squat.

The issue here seems to stem from people associating standing leeches as "Bad" while simultaneously wanting to label gimp leeches as "Well-intentioned". You can't really do that. The net gain each of these types brings to a party is the same: Practically nothing.

Standing leeches really aren't bad, though. If anything, they're more honest with themselves than gimp leeches. The vicious negative connotation associated with Leeching is most certainly not coming from me.

Eh, I don't know, its just an exaggerated use of the term in order to make another group of people sound worse than they really are. I mean by the definition of the word, most sales people, politicians, and religious leaders are whores, but calling them that makes for a really confusing conversation, especially when it involves all three at once. Not that I don't do it anyways from time to time just to amuse myself. :P

Lets just call them what they are. Bad players.