Jobs on strange Equipment

I know it's background and all (from FFXIclopedia), but Hocho has always struck me odd as the only crafting skill item limited to one job (Ninja).

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Originally Posted by Crocker

Stuff like Ungur Boomerang its THF/NIN but it has 8mp on it.
or better yet Gaudy Harness under 49 mp you get refresh on brd/bst and those jobs don't have any MP or castable spells on their own.
Many more pieces of armor has stats like this as well and would love to know what they were thinking (or smoking) like giving bst so many hand to hand weapons but no skill in it at all.

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BST/NIN equipped with gaudy and 2 rune axes was a beautiful thing, only needed 1mp for the regen to proc so you got 10hp/tic (5hp per axe) and shadows.

DRK has the highest GS skill in game and not allowed to use Mercurial GS.

Also +++++++++ to anyone who brought up mage gear on PUP which is still happening today (see last update).

Finally why does DRG get access to joytoy but not hauby.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

PUP actually was first suppose to be Necromancer.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

1UP: The Blue Mages are something that fans have wanted for a long time based on their presence in the history of Final Fantasy. The Corsairs were a bit of a surprise, but the Puppetmaster was a really big surprise since there was never a precedent for such a job in Final Fantasy lore. How did you decide to create the Puppetmaster job class?

KO: In the beginning when we were thinking of new jobs, we were first thinking of a Necromancer type of job, where the job would be able to raise the undead. However, we couldn't have undeads running around in the morning and that would weaken the class, because they'd only be able to work at night. So from there we tried to think of something where the player would be able to use a puppet type of...slave if you will, at all times of day, and that's how we got to Puppetmaster. [/I]

http://www.1up.com/previews/ffxi-tre...pager.offset=4

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These two things contradict each other.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

The decision to axe Necromancer came at a time when removing the job was no longer a feasable option, so they whipped up a quick fix in the form of Puppetmaster.

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First time I'm hearing this. Any evidence for that? I've already explained why this seems horribly implausible (as have others).

Annoyance but not really a big deal: BLUs getting club skill but getting crap for clubs. True Strike, man, gotta get those auto-crits! But really, why give us a skill we can hardly use? So I can bring out my Shellbuster for the occasional proc?

Half the jobs on Avalon Breastplate? That's a lot of non-heavy-armor jobs using a breastplate. ._. MNK, THF, BRD, DNC, PUP, RNG... yet a lot of heavy-armor jobs can't use it.

No hauby on DRG when it could use most heavy armors made me mayad in the past too. >.>

@Arcon
I'm not grasping how that is contradicting in any way can you please show us or at least dumb it down for me because to me it seems like hes agreeing and in the 2rd quote 1st paragraph 1up is asking questions to KO.

As for last quote seems like a opinion which is understandable if they could not fix necromancer and they were halfway into or too deep where they had to switch the jobs completely before release and could not go through the armor/weapon selection in time. I could see that happening as for proof sounds like a impossible task to ask but if he has some awesome.

Which if anything his opinion would no longer be a opinion considering that if you look at the website they did say they scraped the idea when they found out as soon as they figured out necromancer just could not work for them. assuming that gear was already setup does not need proof because the proof follows under the fact they had necromancer in mind when building it.

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Originally Posted by InfiniteKarma

@Arcon
I'm not grasping how that is contradicting in any way can you please show us or at least dumb it down for me because to me it seems like hes agreeing and in the 2rd quote 1st paragraph 1up is asking questions to KO.

As for last quote seems like a opinion which is understandable if they could not fix necromancer and they were halfway into or too deep where they had to switch the jobs completely before release and could not go through the armor/weapon selection in time. I could see that happening as for proof sounds like a impossible task to ask but if he has some awesome.

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They say in the interview that they were thinking about something Necromancer-like, but figured out that they couldn't implement it for lore-related issues (although they seem to be ignoring the fact that undead are out in broad daylight in the Northlands, I'm sure they could have come up with an excuse for Necromancers to have them out as well). That means that PUP was not originally Necromancer and changed midway through development, like people here seem to think. It means that they had an idea for Necromancer, but scrapped it while figuring out the job details. So the pet idea was taken from Necromancer, but the rest was rethought, and PUP was born. Meaning when they got to the point of printing job labels on equipment, nothing of Necromancer was left.

And again, I wanna mention the extensive Aht Urhgan lore, which features puppetmasters in their current form heavily. That means, that by the time they got to write the story, PUP was already in its current form. And the PUP system is completely new, like BLU as well, meaning they put a lot of thought into it. The fact that it features equipment alone distinguishes it from Necromancer, unless you keep pet undead which you have permanent equipment for.

Saying that the dev team is miffed about axing Necromancer (something that didn't even technically happen, from what we know) is a groundless assumption. The fact that they screw up on job implementation is no indication for this either, since they do that on every job. PUP just got unluckier.

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Originally Posted by InfiniteKarma

Which if anything his opinion would no longer be a opinion considering that if you look at the website they did say they scraped the idea when they found out as soon as they figured out necromancer just could not work for them. assuming that gear was already setup does not need proof because the proof follows under the fact they had necromancer in mind when building it.

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That is also a groundless assumption, and a weird one in that. Why would they have Necromancer in mind when building it, when they know they were not building Necromancer? I don't think the dev team is quite that naive. Or spiteful, for that matter. "We didn't get to make a Necromancer, now we're gonna do one in disguise, pah!"

pus/sch. that's all folks.

SMN with dagger skills...

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Originally Posted by Soranika

SMN with dagger skills...

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Ritual dagger for their summoning? D:

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Ritual dagger for their summoning? D:

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Other than the off chance of using Energy Steal/Drain for MP in lieu of Spirit Taker, which I can't explain at all, I have no line of reasoning for Summoners having Dagger skill.

Do Black Mages even have Dagger skill, much less any reason to use them?

As to the whole PUP on mage gear I took it as SE didn't intent PUP to be a front-line job but more of a supporter with /WHM or /SCH.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And again, I wanna mention the extensive Aht Urhgan lore, which features puppetmasters in their current form heavily

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Playing devil's advocate: How much of that lore wouldn't easily work replacing Puppetmaster with Necromancer?

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Do Black Mages even have Dagger skill, much less any reason to use them?

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Higher Skill than SMN, and well stabby stabby good times?

BLM on sword!!!

I just want to point out that equipment is the last thing a dev team is gonna focus on if they are creating a new job, and therefore even if they had started necromancer and stopped halfway thru to change it to PUP (which I think its very obvious that they didn't, however if you have evidence please present.) there wouldn't have been any asigned armor at that time so the PUP was supposed to be necromancer concept loses all grounds on that. Also level 90 armor last update saw some new pieces of gear, and the mage set has PUP listed on it still, not to mention since Toau was released new gear kept coming out and all we got was mage gear til af3. I just want to know, and I want to hear it straight from the dev teams mouths, why does PUP get mage gear period.

On another related topic smns and blms with dagger skill doesn't sound that silly. A dagger or small knife is a pretty basic weapon and since smn and blm have no combat expertise I can see it being viable, now if they made an incredibly awesome dagger with great skills for blm and smn and they couldn't use it then I'd be complaining.

Finally, why is Ukonvasara the greatest Gaxe when its actually a hammer? Serious redesign please.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

They say in the interview that they were thinking about something Necromancer-like, but figured out that they couldn't implement it for lore-related issues (although they seem to be ignoring the fact that undead are out in broad daylight in the Northlands, I'm sure they could have come up with an excuse for Necromancers to have them out as well). That means that PUP was not originally Necromancer and changed midway through development, like people here seem to think. It means that they had an idea for Necromancer, but scrapped it while figuring out the job details. So the pet idea was taken from Necromancer, but the rest was rethought, and PUP was born. Meaning when they got to the point of printing job labels on equipment, nothing of Necromancer was left.

And again, I wanna mention the extensive Aht Urhgan lore, which features puppetmasters in their current form heavily. That means, that by the time they got to write the story, PUP was already in its current form. And the PUP system is completely new, like BLU as well, meaning they put a lot of thought into it. The fact that it features equipment alone distinguishes it from Necromancer, unless you keep pet undead which you have permanent equipment for.

Saying that the dev team is miffed about axing Necromancer (something that didn't even technically happen, from what we know) is a groundless assumption. The fact that they screw up on job implementation is no indication for this either, since they do that on every job. PUP just got unluckier.

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That is also a groundless assumption, and a weird one in that. Why would they have Necromancer in mind when building it, when they know they were not building Necromancer? I don't think the dev team is quite that naive. Or spiteful, for that matter. "We didn't get to make a Necromancer, now we're gonna do one in disguise, pah!"

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Would not surprise me though lol. In any case thank you

Find and replace :P

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Do Black Mages even have Dagger skill, much less any reason to use them?

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Merit Dagger (next update this shouldn't be necessary) and sub Red Mage and you can do Aeolian Edge, which might be a good farm option on mobs that silence you and resist the darkness damage from Cataclysm (Staff and something like /WHM).

Actually, every job except Blue Mage and White Mage gets Dagger skill, so it isn't so strange, even if its about flavor (being able to use a simple weapon). Before anyone calls White Mages incompetent for not being able to use a Dagger (hey, White Mage doesn't use pointy weapons, its uh, part of curing?), I'd like to point out that unlike SOME jobs, White Mages can at least throw a Pebble.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Annoyance but not really a big deal: BLUs getting club skill but getting crap for clubs. True Strike, man, gotta get those auto-crits! But really, why give us a skill we can hardly use? So I can bring out my Shellbuster for the occasional proc?

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Every job can use a club. Although BLU should probably be on some of the generic WAR/PLD/WHM ones, considering...

I think the bigger question is, why can't BLU use Dagger, or why don't they have throwing skill?

The dev team has responded to the question: "Why is X job on Y armor when they clearly have no use for it?"

I'll have to look up the link to this particular response, but their response to PUP getting mage gear was along the lines of: "PUP is a job that wears light cloth armor, so that is the type of stuff that PUP is able to equip."

What this says to me is that the actual stats on various armor types are not the determining factor regarding whether or not a job can wear them. But rather, how a specific armor type (cloth, leather, heavy plate, etc) fits into the lore of the job.

Would explain why DRG could only use leather/scale and other light armor for several years. Used to make me so angry that we couldn't AT LEAST use chain but NIN could. People used to argue "well DRGs need to use light armor so they can be quick and agile and Jump high". Obviously these people were idiots because NIN could use heavier armor than DRGs yet still had higher base AGI and evasion skill than DRG. I never got why a far-eastern Ninja was more qualified to wear ROYAL KNIGHT CHAINMAIL than Dragoon, a Royal Knight of San'dOria. Also weight has nothing to do with jumping. If you jump 100 feet and you weight 150 lbs the damage you exert or energy you release is the same as if you jumped half that height with double the weight on.

Who is to say that the story we have now for Aht Urgan was the original story they had written? Scripts for movies are always being re-written. Why would it be any different for video games?

The could have also created the jobs first, THEN wrote a story later to fit around the jobs they made in final development.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Who is to say that the story we have now for Aht Urgan was the original story they had written? Scripts for movies are always being re-written. Why would it be any different for video games?.

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Funny enough anyone who knew anything about game design would know a game could change quite a lot more than a movie script would.

Even if you have a concept you're happy with, you could always end up scrapping it near completion and redoing it, the main reason for this is usually engine updates or a new engine that can handle what you want better. This is why games take multiple years to produce unless they're reusing assets from a previous title (e.g DA2 used pretty much every asset from DA.)

Hell if you look at Blue mage NPCs in ToAU areas, notice they don't have the AF hands or shoes. Things change during development. The excuse for not having necromancer was still a cop out though, but it's not the first time SE ignored what they've done to make or excuse an addition to the game. Pretty much every thing we've gotten the pass year was excused (more inv, addon type of updates, level cap raising etc.)

I think SMN was the second job to cap cure potency, I am not sure SCH or RDM ever did.

Crazy thought. Sub jobs. DRK is on shield because if you equip /WAR you get some shield activation while using a sword, and bonuses from both.

Roundel Earring for DRG/PUP is easy. Subbing WHM or DNC for any reason. DRG do it a lot for solo and a PUP can /DNC in party to help cure without sacrificing the automaton and using the WHM frame, same works for PUP solo.

I see more and more that people forget you can combine gear/jobs in varying ways to get different effects. I see this especially with veteran players as they have let the playerbase ingrain certain play styles into them that they refuse to even try something different. I don't know how many times pre-aby a party wouldn't invite a RDM if they didn't come /WHM or how every THF not /NIN was even more ignored than the ones with /NIN.

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Originally Posted by Crocker

Stuff like Ungur Boomerang its THF/NIN but it has 8mp on it.
or better yet Gaudy Harness under 49 mp you get refresh on brd/bst and those jobs don't have any MP or castable spells on their own.

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Gonna call you out on this one. The harness back when I leveled my BST from 50 to 75 was a god send for /whm solo. The Auto-Refresh killed a ton of downtime and made it possible that I'd always be able to drop a Cure III on myself in a pinch along with any Na spells I needed without having to rest near as often as I wanted to. Some of the JSE bodys were garbage but when they made that thing, it was worth the time I spent farming the damn thing.


Also here's something that made me roll my eyes. We all knew by the time ToAU came out with the new jobs being BLU PUP and COR but while COR & BLU got access to crimson gear which was pretty neat, I never understood why BLUs were not allowed to use their trademark curved blades from Sky and Fafnir being of course Seiryu's Sword and Ridill. Now you can say that they thought Ridill would overpower the job but honestly at that time, Ridill was already on the downslide from being the end all be all of swords a DD would desire.

Hell I hardly even use my Ridill anymore myself but it's nice to mess around with. Seiryu's Sword would have been an amazing weapon for BLU and them not being able to equip it was pure BS imo.

Kraken Club I noticed also isn't equippable by the newer jobs either... Ok Se. >_>

RDM can't wear Lynx Mantle but can wear Lynx Mantle +1.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

The dev team has responded to the question: "Why is X job on Y armor when they clearly have no use for it?"

I'll have to look up the link to this particular response, but their response to PUP getting mage gear was along the lines of: "PUP is a job that wears light cloth armor, so that is the type of stuff that PUP is able to equip."

What this says to me is that the actual stats on various armor types are not the determining factor regarding whether or not a job can wear them. But rather, how a specific armor type (cloth, leather, heavy plate, etc) fits into the lore of the job.

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This is exactly what they said, but I wouldn't say it was more to do with lore but laziness. They just spewed pup across a set group of equipment at the beginning. It was only till they started really adding pet specific gear that pup started to see some real DD gear.

Genbu's shield anyone?

Whm, blm, rdm, smn, blu, sch and brd? None of these jobs gets any kind of decent shield skill and yet the one job that actually specializes in using shield (pld) can't use it? This one never made any sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Anethia

Genbu's shield anyone?

Whm, blm, rdm, smn, blu, sch and brd? None of these jobs gets any kind of decent shield skill and yet the one job that actually specializes in using shield (pld) can't use it? This one never made any sense to me.

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Heh I sorta get why it was done this way (giving mage a decent shield back then) but -10% pdt would have been pretty useless to a PLD given that when a shield proc'd back then it completely negated all damage, so the fact they had low shield skill and proc rate, means the -10% mitigation was more helpful for the mages than a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Serious peculiarities I am hoping the Developers can answer.


Please post your job specific inquiries and maybe we'll get an answer from Camate etc.


I'll start:

Why is DRK on shields?

It has no shield skill.

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You mean DRK on Twilight Cloak... GTFO DRK, you don't belong here.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

You mean DRK on Twilight Cloak...

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Impact costs 666 MP.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

You mean DRK on Twilight Cloak... GTFO DRK, you don't belong here.

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:| 34567890

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

You mean DRK on Twilight Cloak... GTFO DRK, you don't belong here.

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I would assume that Dark Knight would be on the Twilight Cloak because like RDM, SCH, and BLM, Dark Knights can cast Elemental Magic.

But why is SMN or WHM on the cloak then? Neither one can cast elemental magic natively. I guess for /SCH?

Duh on SMN... you've got so much extra MP lying around you just go Dark Arts -> Impact for some extra "I'm bored as hell!" damage.

It's also the only shot at azure light SMN get

They gotta use their eradico mitts somehow!

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Originally Posted by Dallas

It's also the only shot at azure light SMN get

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Not true, I azure'd Ironclad Executioner with Stone II! (Doubt I'll ever do it again though!)

DRK gets Impact because 666 is xXDRKXx number, yo.

:l

As far as DRK on shields goes, it's a throwback to FF3, back when a DRK used swords and shields. They also used WHM spells like a PLD did. The translation of the Japanese name for DRK job was "Demon Fencer" or "Magical Fencer".

Impact is not designed for dealing heavy damage, it's a utility spell which is the purpose most of DRK's magic serves (absorbs, drain, aspir, spikes etc). To me it makes sense, but it's still retarded nonetheless due primarily to the fact the stats down does not last long, and 666 mp, despite the theme of it, is still a ridiculous amount of mp to be throwing away for such a menial purpose. I'd rather all elemental magic on DRK to be set to 666 mp with a long casting time because no one uses it anyway.

Stat down lasts 3 minutes if unresisted.