in light of all the payment raging, (( must read ))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Plus, I love the excuse "you don't agree with me so you must be wrong."

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Not so much wrong as crazy.

Open a new bank account to open a new 3rd party payment account to buy virtual currency to pay for a game? Really?

Or we could just have SE not do retarded things like this and we all live happily ever after.

People are complaining about Click and Buy. You can just open a new bank account to offset the "risk" of Click and Buy, or you could use your current account to buy crysta. For those who don't have the option of buying crysta, then you have to use Click and Buy to continue to play this game. Don't like Click and Buy? See you in a couple of months. I'm sure that 50~100 people will quit because of this new system, but out of those who quit, about 90% will come back in a couple of months.

Quitting this game because you don't like the way they are changing their payment methods is a very weak excuse, and just shows that those who quit were going to anyway. Just save us all the pain of hearing you cry about it and do it!

This game will continue on without you. I promise you that.

No, we seem to agree exactly on the facts (save one). You made several assertions earlier in the thread that, by a logical extension of the facts we agree upon, are wrong.

For instance, we seem to agree that click and buy is shady enough to warrant opening a shell account, yet you open the post by saying you don't know why people are complaining.

Your solution necessitates opening 2-3 accounts, yet you assert that it only requires opening one.

You name it "streamlining the payment process," somehow. You also don't seem to realize how easy it is for people to let monthly payments slide, and how often they do it.

You back off your claim that they're streamlining the process, and instead shift focus to some combination of "but POL has been bad for the last year!", "International banking rules have changed!", and "Maybe Hackers!" as possible reasons for the switch. All pretty much just speculation. POL has always been bad, I certainly haven't heard of any banking rules changing, and the threat of for-profit hackers likely hasn't increased in the last year.

So in short, you're wrong because you're wrong, and you know it. Also, if you enjoy continued support for this 9 year old grandpa of a game, you'd better hope that SE makes it as easy as possible for every kind of player to continue paying them. The support for this game is going to be directly related to its profitability.

If you don't believe people will unsubscribe over this, take a look at the number of sub-20 post-count posters in these threads.

You've posted this before and got called out on the fact that it's utterly false, and then you decided to make a thread. Deserves to be flamed imo, because you don't just lack reading comprehension you also lack the ability to consider yourself possibly wrong. Couple that with your ironically smart attitude (learn2reed guys!) and I have to wonder if this is just a troll.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byrth

For instance, we seem to agree that click and buy is shady enough to warrant opening a shell account, yet you open the post by saying you don't know why people are complaining.

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I don't think Click and Buy is shady. I have a junk account for all of my online transactions as a step to protect my money online. I use the exact same card that I have been using for years to pay for this game. I'm just surprised that I am the only person here aware enough to take this step to protect myself, I thought this is common sense!

Quote:

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Your solution necessitates opening 2-3 accounts, yet you assert that it only requires opening one.

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My solution requires only the opening of 1 extra account. If 100% of the population has to do steps 2 and 3, and I offer an optional step 1, that doesn't mean that you get to skip steps 2 and 3 if you take the optional step 1. Learn to read.

Quote:

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You name it "streamlining the payment process," somehow. You also don't seem to realize how easy it is for people to let monthly payments slide, and how often they do it.

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Neither one of us know the exact reason why they are doing this new method. I gave you my analysis of the situation, you don't have to take it as gospel. Although, many people here seem to do.

Quote:

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You back off your claim that they're streamlining the process, and instead shift focus to some combination of "but POL has been bad for the last year!", "International banking rules have changed!", and "Maybe Hackers!" as possible reasons for the switch. All pretty much just speculation. POL has always been bad, I certainly haven't heard of any banking rules changing, and the threat of for-profit hackers likely hasn't increased in the last year.

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Again, possible explanations. Until SE actually states why they are doing these things, all we have is speculation. Even I would think you can tell the difference between speculation and gospel.

Quote:

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So in short, you're wrong because you're wrong, and you know it. Also, if you enjoy continued support for this 9 year old grandpa of a game, you'd better hope that SE makes it as easy as possible for every kind of player to continue paying them. The support for this game is going to be directly related to its profitability.

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Speculation is wrong now? How can we know what is wrong when we don't even know what is right?

If you really are all that hung up about this new system, cancel your account now. We will just see you in a couple of months anyway. Otherwise, stop complaining about something you can't change.

The top suggestion on google (in order of most-searched-for) for Click and Buy is "clickandbuy scam." Here, I went ahead and hit enter for you. They also have an F with the BBB (admittedly, SE also had an F until they paid the BBB to become an accredited business). These are not people you would want to do business with if you could avoid it.

There's no reason to be trying to silence opposition to a billing change on the official forums. Even if they're stubborn and this doesn't change anything, it doesn't take much effort to post and it's our only way to try.

Rosina (( must read )), in a general sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byrth

The top suggestion on google (in order of most-searched-for) for Click and Buy is "clickandbuy scam." Here, I went ahead and hit enter for you. They also have an F with the BBB (admittedly, SE also had an F until they paid the BBB to become an accredited business). These are not people you would want to do business with if you could avoid it.

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How come all I see from this are scams that go thru Click and Buy, but not the company itself?

That's the same as blaming MGM for a bad movie.

I can't believe people now. Thanks for showing me this, now I have less faith in people in general than before. Maybe I should blame my grocery store when that new soup doesn't taste good. Or blame Ford when somebody cuts me off. Or blame my electric company when some show comes on and it sucks.

Quote:

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There's no reason to be trying to silence opposition to a billing change on the official forums. Even if they're stubborn and this doesn't change anything, it doesn't take much effort to post and it's our only way to try.

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Not silencing anyone. Just telling everyone to put their money where their mouth is. I hate it when people threaten to do something to offset a minor inconvenience.

I think Korpg is just pissed that if everyone quits, he won't have a game to play and therefore a forum to "teach" about the ways of the world. I know I am done when it all switches over for good. If they would have offered paypal as a 3rd party service for exact purchase price, I would stay. I have had bad dealing with click and buy in the past and refuse to do business with them. Not buying crysta because I can't have it reoccur without manually loading it and not exact payment there either. Not loading up my account with crysta that may or may not be used and will, most likely, never be at a 0 balance.

I have looked over many other forums and I think you are underestimating how many people are truly not happy with this decision. I am sure that way more than 50-100 people are going to be quitting over this. You have to take into account that more than a few of them probably have more than 1 account. I have 2 and will be canceling them both. So does a friend of mine who will be canceling all 3 of his. It's not the number of people who are quitting, but the number of accounts that go with em. GG SE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackastheripper

I think Korpg is just pissed that if everyone quits, he won't have a game to play and therefore a forum to "teach" about the ways of the world. I know I am done when it all switches over for good. If they would have offered paypal as a 3rd party service for exact purchase price, I would stay. I have had bad dealing with click and buy in the past and refuse to do business with them. Not buying crysta because I can't have it reoccur without manually loading it and not exact payment there either. Not loading up my account with crysta that may or may not be used and will, most likely, never be at a 0 balance.

I have looked over many other forums and I think you are underestimating how many people are truly not happy with this decision. I am sure that way more than 50-100 people are going to be quitting over this. You have to take into account that more than a few of them probably have more than 1 account. I have 2 and will be canceling them both. So does a friend of mine who will be canceling all 3 of his. It's not the number of people who are quitting, but the number of accounts that go with em. GG SE.

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You know, the best way to talk bad about a company is to say what they have done to you in the past. You know, instead of saying "I hate this company" it is better to say "I hate this company, and here is why"

Also, I'm flattered that you think I am here teaching people something. That was not my intent, but I'm flattered nonetheless.

Nobody knows how many people will quit over this, except SE. My estimation is based on the number of people who are jumping the bandwagon against Click and Pay and who, I think, will really quit from this. Which we will see a majority of those who quit come back in a couple of months, like we usually do. Past experiences dictate my observations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Byrth

The top suggestion on google

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You are an internet pro (type FFXI, and check where BG is). Noone will quit except for reasons unrelated to this. Unless you have the IQ of a leek, this method takes no longer than what it took to change CC info on the previous POL and is (obviously) safer.

I will say that most of your posts Korpg do have the most thought behind them and I congratulate you on that. They are always well thought out and precise is what I was getting at. You seem to be very dedicated to this game and will do all you can to prove your point with as much research as necessary. For that I applaud you. Seriously. You seem to be one of the few people on here that can discuss things with people, even when they don't agree with you.

This is where I, and more players than I think you realize, are coming from. We (or at least I and quite a few of my other FFXI friends) have stayed with, not so much SE, but FFXI for so long because of the ease and security at which we were able to play the game. It has become less and less easy. Now that is not saying that it was easy (and by that I mean not direct in the least bit once you got inside POL) to get payment options set up, but once it was done, it was done until you had to do something along the lines of change a credit card. It's not easy (any by easy here I mean "no extra necessary steps") to set up multiple other accounts just to get my payment to SE.

I think for a lot of people, this is the last straw in the last line of last straws. With the 99 level cap looming and (already disclosed by SE) no new real content outside of rehashing old areas or adding more stuff to existing ones, what is left? The game is old and, sadly, dying. It had a better run than most. With so many MMO's coming out with so much to offer, it will be hard for FFXI to stand up against them without offering real, new content.

This is the view of one not so casual but also not hardcore FFXI gamer. I have a feeling that I am not the only one who feels this way.

The top suggestion on google. Not the top result. It means that, after the name of the company itself, the next most commonly searched for term is "clickandbuy scam"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackastheripper

I will say that most of your posts Korpg do have the most thought behind them and I congratulate you on that. They are always well thought out and precise is what I was getting at. You seem to be very dedicated to this game and will do all you can to prove your point with as much research as necessary. For that I applaud you. This is where I, and more players than I think you realize, are coming from. We (or at least I and quite a few of my other FFXI friends) have stayed with, not so much SE, but FFXI for so long because of the ease and security at which we were able to play the game. It has become less and less easy. Now that is not saying that it was easy (and by that I mean not direct in the least bit once you got inside POL) to get payment options set up, but once it was done, it was done until you had to do something along the lines of change a credit card. It's not easy (any by easy here I mean "no extra necessary steps") to set up multiple other accounts just to get my payment to SE.

I think for a lot of people, this is the last straw in the last line of last straws. With the 99 level cap looming and (already disclosed by SE) no new real content outside of rehashing old areas or adding more stuff to existing ones, what is left? The game is old and, sadly, dying. It had a better run than most. With so many MMO's coming out with so much to offer, it will be hard for FFXI to stand up against them without offering real, new content.

This is the view of one not so casual but also not hardcore FFXI gamer. I have a feeling that I am not the only one who feels this way.

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I wonder if you even thought about the fact that this new way of paying will allow people to come back to the game. I am mainly talking about people with US accounts but being EU, paying with EU cards, cards that are, for some of them, denied from POL since 2008-2009.
All these people can now pay through ClickandBuy and enjoy FFXI again, and they are many.

That being said, if ClickandBuy was not secure or whatever, it wouldn't be used. 100% safe does not exist but to be used as a mean of payment for FFXIV and now FFXI, it must be pretty close.

FFXI is old, people can't get the same old feeling when playing nowadays, they are merely looking for an excuse to quit, this change is just an excuse to quit, it's not a valid reason.

For those people whos comparing/arguing old POL payment is better or new one is better,plz dont forget that people outside of NA EU and JP cant even pay and play anymore becaues if their SE account is set on EU&Other Region like me then the only option to pay is Click and Buy and there are alot of countries they doesnt work with Click and Buy, for those people who agrees the new payment system is better, think about us, we cant even pay thru Click and Buyand we cant play while u guys still can actually pay and continue the service regardless if you guys want to or not, saying the new system is good and easy to you and dont care about others is just making people /rage. :P you dont have problem with the new system doesnt mean other people will be same as u. right right ? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I wasn't given the option to switch over my account info until the 27th of July. And I had to reissue my information earlier this month because my old card expires at the end of this month.

As far as I know, only the 3D secure was in effect. Give me information as to state that this new system that we are on has been in effect for the past year, and I shall retract my statement. Because I have been paying from PoL since I first started this game.

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It is the only way you could pay for 14, it existed initially for 14 and they already stated back then that there were plans to move 11 to it as they wanted to keep both games on the same system to make it "easier" to handle payments since there was (still is? not sure now that things have changed) supposed to be a discount to the monthly fees if you had both games on the same SE account.

There are tons of people out there (myself included) that are about to get at least 1 month of not having to pay for ff11 because when we all got the CE edition of ff14 we expected to pay for it and already went through this awful system to set it up for 14.

I had a balance of 3k crysta in my bank because I expected to play 14 for at least 2 months. If I hadn't gone back to ffxi those would have expired next year.


Now before you try to twist things, I never said this system was in effect for ffxi. but it has been in effect for over a year and with plans for over a year for ffxi to switch. So if you want to make guesses as to why they made it you have to think about SE's state of almost two years ago (they didn't plan this in a day, it was supposed to be the major new "cool" POL system for ff14, it wasn't a rushed job). While it was already completed and running a year ago, you have to go even further back to when they initially thought of it in the first place.

I'd like to point out too the system is set up the exact same way as it was back a year ago, absolutely nothing has changed since then.

Why did they decide to switch now? my guess is they are planning fairly soon after the next major patch or two in 14 to turn it into p2p and they wanted them both on the same system before then since that was their initial intent.

Copy and pasted from another site. Countries not supported by Click and Buy.

Cuba
Northern Mariana Islands
Moldova
Montenegro
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Syrian Arab Republic / Syria
Armenia
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
China
Islamic Republic of Iran / Iran
Iraq
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cape Verde
Cote d'Ivoire / Ivory Coast
Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea Bissau
Liberia
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya / Libya
Mali
Niger
Nigeria
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
Zimbabwe
Kiribati
Marshall Islands
Federated States of Micronesia /Micronesia
Nauru
Palau
Solomon Islands
Tuvalu
Vanuatu
Democratic People's Republic of Korea / North Korea
Republic of Korea / South Korea
Lao People's Democratic Republic / Laos / Lao P.D.R.
Malaysia
Myanmar
Philippines
Indonesia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Thailand
Viet Nam
Hong Kong / HK
Macau / Macao
Taiwan
Palestinian Territory
Niue
Pitcairn / Pitcairn Island
Wallis and Futuna Islands
Western Sahara
Svalbard
St. Pierre et Miquelon
Antarctica
Heard Island and Mcdonald Islands
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Holy See (vatican City State)

While it is nice to see that with this new system, a few older players from certain areas already supported by POL will be able to come back, all the players in these countries that already have accounts through avenues mentioned above will be unable to play. This includes some of couple of US friends who are currently stationed in Iraq who use a little of their very little free time to jump on FFXI and play around on their US account and chat and a friend of mine in Lebanon who plays on a JP account.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackastheripper

Copy and pasted from another site. Countries not supported by Click and Buy.

Cuba
Northern Mariana Islands
Moldova
Montenegro
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Syrian Arab Republic / Syria
Armenia
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
China
Islamic Republic of Iran / Iran
Iraq
Benin...

While it is nice to see that with this new system, a few older players from certain areas already supported by POL will be able to come back, all the players in these countries that already have accounts through avenues mentioned above will be unable to play.

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Hey, look on the bright side! No RMT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Hey, look on the bright side! No RMT.

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I loled. But seriously, losing the business from china and the Korea's? I am sure that will be no big hit....

to the op:
this are my options:

when u transfer to extend your ID's it gives me this options:

-Clickandbuy
-Crysta

i have to select one of them.

to buy crysta i have to select one of these:

-clickandbuy
-ultimatepay

2000 crysta costs 20€ (at SE page)

payment methods and prices:

Ultimate game card: 30.38$
Webmoney 30.38$
Ukash 20,87€
ELV (germany) 21.61€ > redirected to paybycash
Moneybookers 20€
Wallie-card 23.84€
Giropay (moneybookers) 20€
instant transfer (moneybookers) 20€
paypal 20€
paysafecard 21,31€

as u can see i always have to sign in for a 3rd party and some of them are charging extra money.

there's no way to pay SE directly via CC, at least not in germany.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Romanova

It is the only way you could pay for 14, it existed initially for 14 and they already stated back then that there were plans to move 11 to it as they wanted to keep both games on the same system to make it "easier" to handle payments since there was (still is? not sure now that things have changed) supposed to be a discount to the monthly fees if you had both games on the same SE account.

There are tons of people out there (myself included) that are about to get at least 1 month of not having to pay for ff11 because when we all got the CE edition of ff14 we expected to pay for it and already went through this awful system to set it up for 14.

I had a balance of 3k crysta in my bank because I expected to play 14 for at least 2 months. If I hadn't gone back to ffxi those would have expired next year.


Now before you try to twist things, I never said this system was in effect for ffxi. but it has been in effect for over a year and with plans for over a year for ffxi to switch. So if you want to make guesses as to why they made it you have to think about SE's state of almost two years ago (they didn't plan this in a day, it was supposed to be the major new "cool" POL system for ff14, it wasn't a rushed job). While it was already completed and running a year ago, you have to go even further back to when they initially thought of it in the first place.

I'd like to point out too the system is set up the exact same way as it was back a year ago, absolutely nothing has changed since then.

Why did they decide to switch now? my guess is they are planning fairly soon after the next major patch or two in 14 to turn it into p2p and they wanted them both on the same system before then since that was their initial intent.

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Then why are you complaining, you already have your account setup, all you have to do is transfer the information from PoL to your SE account.

As for me, it was a simple process to transfer my information from one source to another, and I can make monthly payments without any hassle. You can too, if you aren't in the Click and Buy's list of countries they don't support.

And if you don't trust Click and Buy? There is an optional step you can take to safeguard your money.

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alukat

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

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That's not the serious one, that the rage one...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alukat

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

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You are correct, silent people won't be heard because they won't sign the petition. Mostly because they don't have a problem with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Then why are you complaining, you already have your account setup, all you have to do is transfer the information from PoL to your SE account.

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reading is hard (maybe you can figure it out)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by me

I had a balance of 3k crysta in my bank because I expected to play 14 for at least 2 months. If I hadn't gone back to ffxi those would have expired next year.

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I don't like the crysta system at all, and C&B already tried to take extra money from me back during the 14 fiasco. Chase blocks all transactions from them thank god, but I had to fight with C&B to reverse my money.


[edit] to further clarify, I would have no issues if 1. crysta never expired, 2, I could buy crysta in any amount I wanted, 3. I could set it up where they could automate the crysta payments via paypal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

That's not the serious one, that the rage one...

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Post in them all. Copy and paste if you need to.

If posting in a petition thread was considered "signing" a petition, then I've done that, but neither of the petition threads have names in the initial post. I think if SE looks at this forum they get the idea anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Romanova

I don't like the crysta system at all, and C&B already tried to take extra money from me back during the 14 fiasco. Chase blocks all transactions from them thank god, but I had to fight with C&B to reverse my money.

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Sounds like a FFXIV problem to me, and a billing issue with Click and Buy, which you should have talked to either that company or Square Enix about it. Fighting with them, I don't believe. More like one side was too mad to keep their emotions in check.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...830#post156830


I don't think they get it fully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

That's not the serious one, that the rage one...

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but that one reflects what people are truely thinking and their thoughts / emotions behind it.

we really want to become an emotionless calmed society? :O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alukat

but that one reflects what people are truely thinking and their thoughts / emotions behind it.

we really want to become an emotionless calmed society? :O

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Ever seen Eqilibrium? Good movie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Ever seen Eqilibrium? Good movie.

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of course i saw it, it's awesome.

but i don't want to live in an emotionless world.

well i actually lived in one, and it sucks badly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackastheripper

Copy and pasted from another site. Countries not supported by Click and Buy.

Cuba
Northern Mariana Islands
Moldova
Montenegro
Lebanon
Afghanistan
Syrian Arab Republic / Syria
Armenia
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Cambodia
China
Islamic Republic of Iran / Iran
Iraq
Benin
Burkina Faso
Cape Verde
Cote d'Ivoire / Ivory Coast
Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea Bissau
Liberia
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya / Libya
Mali
Niger
Nigeria
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Togo
Uganda
Zimbabwe
Kiribati
Marshall Islands
Federated States of Micronesia /Micronesia
Nauru
Palau
Solomon Islands
Tuvalu
Vanuatu
Democratic People's Republic of Korea / North Korea
Republic of Korea / South Korea
Lao People's Democratic Republic / Laos / Lao P.D.R.
Malaysia
Myanmar
Philippines
Indonesia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Thailand
Viet Nam
Hong Kong / HK
Macau / Macao
Taiwan
Palestinian Territory
Niue
Pitcairn / Pitcairn Island
Wallis and Futuna Islands
Western Sahara
Svalbard
St. Pierre et Miquelon
Antarctica
Heard Island and Mcdonald Islands
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Holy See (vatican City State)

---

Really?

I lol'd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Sounds like a FFXIV problem to me, and a billing issue with Click and Buy, which you should have talked to either that company or Square Enix about it. Fighting with them, I don't believe. More like one side was too mad to keep their emotions in check.

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no it was strictly through CnB. 14 had nothing to do with it, from what I can tell their "authorization" got stuck in a loop, it started spamming my CC with those random $1-2 amounts, and Chase got flagged/blocked it after the 5th or 6th time (I forget which since it was a year ago). I had to call Chase first since CnB's customer service was in Euro time so it wasn't open. Chase told me that CnB is a red flagged company to them and that Chase tries to block any transaction coming from them. I called C&B the next day and had to argue with them to get me 5-6 funds reversed and to have my account cancelled through them.


Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. No way am I going through that again. Nor do I want to go to another bank outside of Chase atm who tries to stop CnB transactions anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Romanova

no it was strictly through CnB. 14 had nothing to do with it, from what I can tell their "authorization" got stuck in a loop, it started spamming my CC with those random $1-2 amounts, and Chase got flagged/blocked it after the 5th or 6th time (I forget which since it was a year ago). I had to call Chase first since CnB's customer service was in Euro time so it wasn't open. Chase told me that CnB is a red flagged company to them and that Chase tries to block any transaction coming from them. I called C&B the next day and had to argue with them to get me 5-6 funds reversed and to have my account cancelled through them.


Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. No way am I going through that again. Nor do I want to go to another bank outside of Chase atm who tries to stop CnB transactions anyways.

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Sounds like an error to me, not malicious intent.

Chase has probably flagged Click and Buy because people use that company to filter in scams. It is not saying that the company is bad, it is saying that some people who use the product is bad. Are you going to blame Microsoft for somebody hacking into your computer?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaida

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...830#post156830


I don't think they get it fully.

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They get it they just rather take the easy route out.

It is easier to assure people they won't have such and such a charge with the new system instead of giving credence to the fact people rather have PO's crappy billing than this new junk.

This is not a case of people resisting change or even being unreasonable. This is a case of the change being worse than what we have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Sounds like an error to me, not malicious intent.

Chase has probably flagged Click and Buy because people use that company to filter in scams. It is not saying that the company is bad, it is saying that some people who use the product is bad. Are you going to blame Microsoft for somebody hacking into your computer?

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I never said it was malicious intent, it is however a failed company as I have heard several others get into the same situation.

Also, stop trying to justify them, I don't trust them. You want to trust them? fine, go for it, but don't come down on others for not trusting them. Chase told me they will keep blocking it which means I couldn't use my chase card for CnB and that's the card I want to use (for two reasons 1. I have always trusted chase against fraud, 2. it's my reward card and I put all small purchases on it to gain points), so I do it through paypal instead because I can as crysta is the lesser of two evils. I think it's silly you think it's ok to tell people how to govern their money.


[edit] I also noticed how you claimed you'd retract your statement about the "new" system, even though you were, in fact, wrong about this being really new but never actually admitted to being wrong. gg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Romanova

I think it's silly you think it's ok to tell people how to govern their money.

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Good old Korpg, still in his same old song and dance. Not a surprise really, but it be lovely if he came to his senses about some things though. At least when it comes to things like this.

If SE wants individuals to use crysta, allow exact payments instead of amounts that favor the company.

Cmon, has SE been reading the Shinra Motor and Electric Company manual on fair business practices?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I don't think Click and Buy is shady. I have a junk account for all of my online transactions as a step to protect my money online. I use the exact same card that I have been using for years to pay for this game. I'm just surprised that I am the only person here aware enough to take this step to protect myself, I thought this is common sense!


My solution requires only the opening of 1 extra account. If 100% of the population has to do steps 2 and 3, and I offer an optional step 1, that doesn't mean that you get to skip steps 2 and 3 if you take the optional step 1. Learn to read.


Neither one of us know the exact reason why they are doing this new method. I gave you my analysis of the situation, you don't have to take it as gospel. Although, many people here seem to do.


Again, possible explanations. Until SE actually states why they are doing these things, all we have is speculation. Even I would think you can tell the difference between speculation and gospel.



Speculation is wrong now? How can we know what is wrong when we don't even know what is right?

If you really are all that hung up about this new system, cancel your account now. We will just see you in a couple of months anyway. Otherwise, stop complaining about something you can't change.

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History shows that you are wrong.
Did you heard anything about revolutions?
A few examples to you:
-Your country would be nothing but a simple colony actually if your forefathers had that mentality.
-The big mayority of humans would be slaves working 24/7 under whips for a few minority of people with power.

Actually we are the only ones that can change this situation and people complaining for no reason about people complainign for a fair reason doesn't help.

I really don't see the fundaments of your complains, how does it affect you that other people could keep the actual billing system at the same time that you can use the new one? just like Japanesse can.

Does your solution solve this problem?

Quote:

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In short version and in English this mean:

-If your Original bank refuse a payement on a click and buy transaction you get 15€ + 7,5€ fee

-If you want to close your Click and Buy account its cost 15€ fee (Yeah but it was free to made it)

-If you dont use your Click and Buy account for more than 1 year you get 1€ fee per month then.

http://www.clickandbuy.com/WW_en/ter...onditions.html

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If we just accept Click & buy, besides of the bad reputation and all that shit, SE would be forcing us to give an extra 15€ fee for cancelling our account or either pay them 1€ each month for something we don't want to use.
That or pay using crysta, buying extra amounts of it w/o knowing what could happen in the future (banned, leaving game for unespected mayor reason, death.. hell even if its 2€, those would be my property or of my sons), but no, they force us to have to either lose that too, or either spend it in something we didn't want.

It's not about making an extra account for security or anything, it's about time consumed in undesired stuff, forcing us to spend extra money in something we didn't want, etc. Hell is about values and morality.

And the worst is that this is impossed after 9 years, it would be different if it would be that way from the beginning, we could have acepted it or not, and prolly would have ended like FFIV, but now it does damage us, as it force us to either accept or lose all the time/stuff invested here, and this is enought for a lot of people to don't trust on SE anymore.

So yes, poeple do have a reason to complain about an unfair/immoral system impossed after 9 years, and that damages them, more or less.

And we do have the power to change this, even if you don't believe it (as i said before, history shows you are wrong), first complaining and later taking action if our complains are not taken into consideration.
And even if we don't leave the game entirely, 1000 people not paying for 1 month is money lost by SE that they could have earned by listening to their clients.
Some may come back, but the damage is done, and others won't come back for sure.
*1000 is just an example, could be more people considering the quantity of complains that you can see in the forum in just 1 day. (and note that i said temporaly leaving, not leaving forever).

Now its time for SE to evaluate if the gain will be worth the lost and the bad reputation they will earn for leading their clients into this trap.


Also, to your knowledge:
I don't need an extra bank account to buy with security, i check my bank account every day, if click & buy charges me w/o permission, i have X time(based on type of operation) to cancel the operation and get my money back.
The problem is that doing so, Click & buy could add me to an unpaid's black list and banks wouldn't lend me any money i would need in the future, GREATLY damaging my real life, even if i cancel the operation from any account, it's my name and my ID what get's the damage, even for 13€.
So at the end, either i eat the 13€ or i spend A LOT of time and money on laywers, trying to prove to a judge that i am inocent to get myself erased from that list.

So before sending someone to learn to read you should also learn about what you are talking about, not all countries have the same laws as your :)


In resume:
-People have a reason to complain about this unfair new impossed system.
-People complaining about other people complaining has no reason at all since if SE keep the actual system as well it won't affect them at all because you could use the new one too, like JP people, which is what the mayority of complains demand, so please stop doing this as it doesn't help at all.

That's my 2 cents,
Good night, ty for reading, all that~