New weapons with higher base damage then relics

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Originally Posted by Umichi

most high end linkshells have a waiting list or points you have to spend to aquire high end pieces

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All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

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I would have to agree point systems don't work, they are used so that leaders and the people at the top get everything, someone who just joined gets nothing for a very long time while helping leaders click of people get all the gear. You complain about getting nothing they call you greedy and kick you from the LS.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

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they had their place, especially back in 36x people dynamis... if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably weren't there.


Edit: Also sky linkshells, pretty much any real content pre ToAU and somewhat ToAU/WotG (If you remember Ixion farming...)

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I already understand what you're saying and to that I respond: The ignorance of the past is astounding. We've been here before with Abyssea when most of the solid pieces in XI went belly up and it happened virtually overnight.

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Can you truly not see the difference between a Level cap increase from 75 to 99 completely replacing armor, and whats going on now?

Lets put this out of the way. I do get your point, But Its not that we want sidegrades, Its that we want our armor to actually be something, our weapons to mean something. With this design direction, there is 0 attachment to your weapons. IDK About you, But I've invested years into my character, and I've come to cherish some of its possessions. I still have my Carbuncle's Pole cause of its sentimental value, though i never expected it to remain tops... i mean, each and every armor i work hard for I work that hard knowing that its going to mean something for me for some time.

I hate tossing armor, and while i know its going to happen eventually in an MMO, FFXI always had that sense of Longevity that i enjoyed about it, its why i kept coming back to this game. If i took a break for 2-3 Months, when I come back, how far back am i going to be? am i going to have to grind 5-6 Events to get the armor to participate in the event they're outdating next week? Will i have to leech?

While i appreciate and in the past even asked for more upgrades, I didn't want the "Evil Genie" to turn this into a gear-ladder geargrinding Generic MMO.

Moving on, Lets try not to neglect the other 8-9 Years previous to Abyssea where Armor not getting outdated was still pretty status Quot. Armada Hauberk and Byakko's Haidate were still the best things in the world at 75 cap even post Salvage, and Salvage introduced arguably the best gear since Kings. I'm not saying I <3 Kings or anything, But I'm saying I and many like me chose this game, or grew used to the design idea of gear having solid longevity, even if it was a year, or two, you grew pretty comfortable your achievement meant something.

Now whats your achievement? a stepping stone to an event thats already been replaced by another event two weeks ago. Its not that armor is getting outdated, its the speed in which they're out-dating it, it does not fit FFXI, and never has. Even during Abyssea, Empyrean+1~+2 Armor held strongly as the best stuff even well into 99.

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You get a few good pieces in an event like Meebles and therest is garbage carted off to the side. Great, thats the diversity we want? 90% of content gear junked because itsa sidegrade of a sidegrade? Gotcha.

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The more you distort and misunderstand our views the more foolish your argument becomes.

Edit: Oh, and... Satan's going ice-skating.

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All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

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I agree. While some high-End LS's do exist (I don't judge Hi-End by the amount of hair on ones neck), Point systems simply do not work out for anyone except sack holders, LS leaders, and people who server hop after getting what they want >_>.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

That is quite unfortunate that you've spent so much time on pointless grinds. In SE's eyes, it's time to start moving people to bigger and better things. Relics were kings for well over 6 years of XI's life, then come Mythics then eventually Empyreans. No other MMO keeps 1 set of weapons or armor the top tier for numerous years.

And no, you can't convince me that collecting 1500 metal plates for example was supposed to be a challenge or collecting riftdross/cinder was etc etc, none of the weapons excluding Mythics were actually "hard work". So in reality, the barrier of entry for this content is actually much more harder than gaining a relic/empyrean is.

Not gonna lie, the ragequit is pretty funny, but then again I've played more MMOs than just FFXI so maybe I just understand this is the natural order of things. It sucks your hours upon hours of wasted time on nothing is outdone, but tell me, do you see everyone and their mother with it? Why not just...get one yourself and not cry about it? You chose to get a R/E/M to be "the best" did you not? Why not continue that trend?

I mean, let's be real here:

Empyrean Step 1:
Slaughter endless amount of NMs usually 3-8 times, with said NMs having the possibility of spawning between 1-24+ hours.
-Why is this necessary? Shouldn't 1 kill be enough? Why NMs that can lotto pop between 1 hour to up to 3 days?

Empyrean Step 2:
Slaughter VNMs.
-This is NP, but why if your crystal upgrade? Then you need to farm another tier 2 crystal which can take days if you're unlucky.

Empyrean Step 3:
Fetch time, bitches!
-Why do I need to collect 50 helmets? Nevermind the fact this monster can drop 2 helmets when he's clearly only wearing one, but why do I need 50 of them? Then I need to collect 75 fangs of a giant sandworm, why is it, despite the 20 or teeth clearly present in its mouth that it only drops 1-2? Let's not get into the fact that these things are somehow reviving endlessly to begin with.

Empyrean Stage 4:
Fetch time, deux bitches!
-Why do I need to collect 1500 metal plates? Or any other silly item needed? Why couldn't I do something akin to FFXIV where I'd have to slaughter something challenging (even if its just at first.)

Now, if we look at just the first bit of empyrean, what part of that is challenging or hard work? We're not even going to touch on Relics because Relics is nothing but money farming for 99% of it, something that isn't hard at all.

I hate to say it, I really really do hate to say it, but FFXIV's relic quest was much more challenging than getting a relic or empyrean in this game. The only hard weapon line is Mythic, and that was at 75 cap. What do these weapons have in common?

1. Item Fetching that's pointless.
2. Artificial difficulty in terms of lockout timers and low drop rates.
3. Busy work.

It's time to move on and SE sees this.

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The reason i will not get the new items is because i don't know if they will be outdated in a month. I got the weapons i did thinking they would be the best or at least very close to the best. If you read my quote i said if they continue down this path. The path i'm referring to is making all old content obsolete and just new content is worth doing.

I know you might say well i can still do old content, but i didn't do dynamis everyday because i enjoyed it, i did it to get the best weapons. At this time the only content i see worth doing is delve and that is not enough to keep me playing, and like most like to point out, "if you don't like it quit, every MMO outdates all gear" well i thought ff11 had 1 slot they wouldn't and since i was wrong i'm taking the advice of others. I'm quitting.

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Edit: Oh, and... Satan's going ice-skating.

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Come on, that guy's been skating in Buffalo forever for the Sabres.

Oh, not that Satan?

(had to get that in to loosen things up)

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Originally Posted by bryangelos

The reason i will not get the new items is because i don't know if they will be outdated in a month.

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And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

They probably implemented this huge spike in firepower as an alternative to raising the level cap actually. Except that prob wasn't going to do it on it's own so they decided to scrap the lvl cap part and just implemented a bunch of powerful weapons and armor (DEF rating wise)

That being said I dislike how they are going about this but I do agree with what they are trying to achieve. It's the degree with which they are handling this that has me unsettled.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

So why exactly did everyone complain about Salvage 2 sidegrades again?
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Most of the people who complained about Salvage 2 were people with no mathematical grasp on FFXI (or Blue Mages)

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

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The people who are complaining do not want this - they do not want to do X event in order to do Y event in order to do Z event

They want to be able to freely choose which content they participate in based on their current needs and enjoyment level from the content

The gear treadmill model employed by other MMOs will not work in FFXI - it's not what the majority of the players want


AND AGAIN - no one intelligent is complaining about new strong gear - but when you release weapons with double the strength of weapons that people took hundreds of real hours of manpower to build in the course of a one-month period you can expect that people are going to short circuit

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Can you truly not see the difference between a Level cap increase from 75 to 99 completely replacing armor, and whats going on now?

Lets put this out of the way. I do get your point, But Its not that we want sidegrades, Its that we want our armor to actually be something, our weapons to mean something. With this design direction, there is 0 attachment to your weapons. IDK About you, But I've invested years into my character, and I've come to cherish some of its possessions. I still have my Carbuncle's Pole cause of its sentimental value, though i never expected it to remain tops... i mean, each and every armor i work hard for I work that hard knowing that its going to mean something for me for some time.

I hate tossing armor, and while i know its going to happen eventually in an MMO, FFXI always had that sense of Longevity that i enjoyed about it, its why i kept coming back to this game. If i took a break for 2-3 Months, when I come back, how far back am i going to be? am i going to have to grind 5-6 Events to get the armor to participate in the event they're outdating next week? Will i have to leech?

While i appreciate and in the past even asked for more upgrades, I didn't want the "Evil Genie" to turn this into a gear-ladder geargrinding Generic MMO.

Moving on, Lets try not to neglect the other 8-9 Years previous to Abyssea where Armor not getting outdated was still pretty status Quot. Armada Hauberk and Byakko's Haidate were still the best things in the world at 75 cap even post Salvage, and Salvage introduced arguably the best gear since Kings. I'm not saying I <3 Kings or anything, But I'm saying I and many like me chose this game, or grew used to the design idea of gear having solid longevity, even if it was a year, or two, you grew pretty comfortable your achievement meant something.

Now whats your achievement? a stepping stone to an event thats already been replaced by another event two weeks ago. Its not that armor is getting outdated, its the speed in which they're out-dating it, it does not fit FFXI, and never has. Even during Abyssea, Empyrean+1~+2 Armor held strongly as the best stuff even well into 99.



The more you distort and misunderstand our views the more foolish your argument becomes.

Edit: Oh, and... Satan's going ice-skating.



I agree. While some high-End LS's do exist (I don't judge Hi-End by the amount of hair on ones neck), Point systems simply do not work out for anyone except sack holders, LS leaders, and people who server hop after getting what they want >_>.

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I actually prefer the oposite, Sidegrades at 75 were becomeing stale and abyssea made a cut and fresh start by makeign everything else obsolete. I liked it alot, even tough alot of my old gear got trashed and my relic weapon too (until the 95 and 99 upgrade boosts were introduced). It was somethign new something fresh and everyon could participate.

I dont mind the new cut in adoulin. Infact I find it refreshing VW is now what almost 2 years old and legion 1.5 years? I dont mind haveing now newer or better gear after 2 years, besides not everything got wasted. It would be tough a bit too much if they would do it every 3 months, but I think delve introduced a nice way where weaposn and gear go and I think what will follow now for ~2 years is sidegrades of delve armor/weapons.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

As it stands, the functions of the instruments and shields (High -MDT%, ~100% block rate, +Songs, etc.) are still the best you can ask for in regards to that slot/job. Weapons on the other hand... What's going to do more?

Chant du Cygne with Almace 99?
or
Vorpal Blade with DMG:130, STR+13, Accuracy+25, Attack+25, and "Double Attack"+3%?

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As long as I can off-hand this sword and main-hand my Almace I will still smile at my CDC damage. I agree that 2h'ers got a little screwed with the upgrades and don't get me started on the biggest nerf in game history if you are on a pet job.

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Originally Posted by Damane

I dont mind the new cut in adoulin. Infact I find it refreshing VW is now what almost 2 years old and legion 1.5 years? I dont mind haveing now newer or better gear after 2 years, besides not everything got wasted. It would be tough a bit too much if they would do it every 3 months, but I think delve introduced a nice way where weaposn and gear go and I think what will follow now for ~2 years is sidegrades of delve armor/weapons.

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Actually what they said is they'd inevitably adjust the content for the players who follow the top players in the new content (because when you're releasing 243 dmg great katanas you have to release new content that people with 243 damage great katanas will be challenged by - the next "content level")

Delve is the "next content level" above Skirmish|Salvage2|NNI etc

In one content level we jump from D55 daggers to D108 '~'

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Originally Posted by Splinters

As long as I can off-hand this sword and main-hand my Almace I will still smile at my CDC damage. I agree that 2h'ers got a little screwed with the upgrades and don't get me started on the biggest nerf in game history if you are on a pet job.

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This isn't right for a few reasons:

1) The described Sword is so much better than a 99 Almace that you would do more damage single-wielding it than Dual Wielding it with a pre-patch sword.

2) There exists a similar club that's D130 as well, and BLU can use it. This opens up the possibility of doing Club/Sword and using Realmrazer. Let that sink in for a sec. It's entirely possible that BLU's best easy-to-obtain combination is Club/Sword.

3) 2H users didn't get screwed. The easiest weapons to obtain come from collecting 30k Plasm and crush most/all RME. When 2H jobs obtain one of these weapons, it applies to 100% of their damage. 1H users have to sacrifice Dual Wield as described above or try to Dual Wield two new weapons (which either requires 60k Plasm for two weapon types or 30k plasm and a much harder to obtain/more expensive drop). The average 1H users is going to take a DPS hit relative to 2 handers compared to the pre-patch balance. Monk is an exception, because their 1H weapon is on both hands.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

AND AGAIN - no one intelligent is complaining about new strong gear - but when you release weapons with double the strength of weapons that people took hundreds of real hours of manpower to build in the course of a one-month period you can expect that people are going to short circuit

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This sums up the main thrust behind a lot of the doubts really well. It's not that the new equipment is strong, or stronger than current options, it's that the new weapons in particular are ridiculously strong compared to anything and everything.

Outmatching current super-weapons is just the tip of the iceberg. The new weapons are ridiculously strong to the point that one-handed melee should consider single-wielding whatever new weapon they get or off-handing something weird in order to use two of the new weapons. The new weapons are strong enough that pet damage and magic damage will soon be even more marginalized.

This is a really bold move and I want to see what the Development Bros are building, but with the new weapons being so crazy-retarded-super-duper and no other significant change being made...right now the construct feels like a half-finished staircase that we can climb just to sit at the top and look down into the abyss.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

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If you actually read my post you will see i don't intend to do new content. I don't know any other way of putting it except i don't like the "your gear is outdated every update model". And to use your example if every update they raised the level cap and we were around lvl 1k right now, i most likely would of quit because that sounds boring.

To add to why i don't like the model its because it makes doing all old content pointless except doing it for the sake of doing it. Like many others have pointed out its not about my gear being the best, if this is there new model in 3 months of me not playing i wouldn't even have gear good enough to do new events. Current 99 weapons compared to delve weapons is like comparing a level 10 gtk to a 99 masa...

they have really crossed the line this time. abyssea gear was a big jump too but not as steep, not even close. some of the new armors are reasonable upgrades while others are sidegrades or maybe even worse but those weapons... ugh... i only have a 90 empy and no relic or mythic but even i feel trolled by the devs with this ridiculously vertical weapon progression. until today we were still talking about how powerful the naakul weapons were and look at them now. they are already outshined in two months and most people didn't even get to fight them seriously at all.

please, if you still have some faith in your own game, keep FFXI as FFXI. we loved the game for its mostly unique item and character progression mechanics. we haven't been around for years to see the game being seemingly broken one day overnight. when abyssea was announced there was a similar rage and SE did lose many subs but at least those equipments lasted several years and are still pretty strong for the most part and were much easier to keep up for the new direction for the game of being more casual friendly.

those weapons didnt even last 3 months this time and even worse, the new armors dont even come close to the item level of the new weapons, not to mention there are only a few exciting pieces for the mages. so there is not even any balance in this update itself. if you don't wanna turn this into a crappy ftp korean mmo, lean back and think again... please.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

You obviously haven't been in a high end LS recently.



1) Airlixir +2s cost something like 100k Plasma and they're used to augment armors. Even if they can be bought with Plasma, will they actually be buyable that way? I don't know, but it wouldn't impact any of the issues I raised if they were.
2) They're the same models as the weapons that drop from the new Bee, Shark, and T-rex on the overworld Wildskeeper Reives. The Delve bosses are a Bee, Shark, and T-rex. It's a fact that's just awaiting confirmation at this point.
3) That's true. Still, how would the drop rate being higher negate what I said?


Yes. I can. Even if the drop rate is fairly high, it's still going to be luck-based whether or not it drops to your alliance and whether or not you win the lot. The content is almost certainly going to be difficult because even the NQ NMs on the overworld are pretty hard right now.



Not nearly to the same degree. At all. You're talking about farming 17,000 items that drops ~2.5/kill (Relic), 30,000 items that give ~100/run (Mythic), or ~175 items that drop ~1.5/kill (Empyrean). Those are just a matter of preparedness and directing all your resources towards the goal for the job you like. The new system is just a matter of going in with your alliance, and if it drops then maybe you lot it and gear your dragoon. Why would you do that? Well, because if you get that polearm then Dragoon can easily become your best DD job.

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Drg is my best DD job whm is my second job thats ever even reach 90's

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Originally Posted by Areayea

they had their place, especially back in 36x people dynamis... if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably weren't there.


Edit: Also sky linkshells, pretty much any real content pre ToAU and somewhat ToAU/WotG (If you remember Ixion farming...)

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I was there and that's why I say they don't work. Most of those shells where an army of gimps with 3-4 ppl knowing wtf to do and the other were leeching. I remember a group 6-manning everything in sky and that's how it should be done - instead you had point systems LSs that got destroyed everytime a dedicated player got his byakko. Point systems in dynamis didn't work because you always had an idiot willing to farm their gimp windy AF instead of xarc or beaucedine. Limbus was the worst thing to do with points. I've had like 4 of them and didn't get what I wanted... because only like one piece of nashira didn't suck ?

Trust me the best of all system is everything free lot with small limits on the kind of thing you can lot etc. Point system destroy LSs, they make people leave once they get stuff, they make other ragequit for another LS etc. The simple idea of points implies that it going to fail because it implicitely assumes that dedication will vary a lot which shouldn't be happening for your "LS" to work. Guess why almost all players with top notch gear have one or several accounts ?

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Originally Posted by Byrth

3) 2H users didn't get screwed. The easiest weapons to obtain come from collecting 30k Plasm and crush most/all RME. When 2H jobs obtain one of these weapons, it applies to 100% of their damage. 1H users have to sacrifice Dual Wield as described above or try to Dual Wield two new weapons (which either requires 60k Plasm for two weapon types or 30k plasm and a much harder to obtain/more expensive drop). The average 1H users is going to take a DPS hit relative to 2 handers compared to the pre-patch balance. Monk is an exception, because their 1H weapon is on both hands.

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I didn't crunch numbers but I'm under the impression that increasing the weapon's damage has a minor effect on all 100% mod WS (what else would you use anyway ?) while they greatly affect melee hits. Going to guess post patch DDs are going to be mainly DOT including SAMs and DRKS or WARs. I don't think x hit build make sense still.

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Originally Posted by bryangelos

To add to why i don't like the model its because it makes doing all old content pointless except doing it for the sake of doing it.

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Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

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True to a point, the crafted ones can be picked up with or without doing Delve personally, which means if I want to out DD a Rag99 DRK, I need a few mil to go buy myself the new GS, and I will thrash them in DPS. That exact same reason is why Relics are falling in general, look at the buyable weapons, there is a GA and a GS, both of which are the best of their class and can be picked up without touching Delve personally, so you can completely skip some steps if you have the money.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

True to a point, the crafted ones can be picked up with or without doing Delve personally, which means if I want to out DD a Rag99 DRK, I need a few mil to go buy myself the new GS, and I will thrash them in DPS. That exact same reason is why Relics are falling in general, look at the buyable weapons, there is a GA and a GS, both of which are the best of their class and can be picked up without touching Delve personally, so you can completely skip some steps if you have the money.

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Current Rag99 DRK, yes. Once they add upgrades for relics, who knows?

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Current Rag99 DRK, yes. Once they add upgrades for relics, who knows?

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It's a big "if" at this point. They might not have enough manpower.

Here is hoping they come out with some more concrete plan.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Limbus was the worst thing to do with points. I've had like 4 of them and didn't get what I wanted... because only like one piece of nashira didn't suck ?

Trust me the best of all system is everything free lot with small limits on the kind of thing you can lot etc. Point system destroy LSs, they make people leave once they get stuff, they make other ragequit for another LS etc. The simple idea of points implies that it going to fail because it implicitely assumes that dedication will vary a lot which shouldn't be happening for your "LS" to work. Guess why almost all players with top notch gear have one or several accounts ?

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How is "everything free lot" better than points systems in something like Limbus which, as you posted, only has one piece that doesn't suck? Everyone will /seacom that one piece. This is what I see when people form Prov groups or Legion groups or Odin v2 groups. Once people cap out on the common stuff like Plenitas Virgas or Ngen Seraweels, the majority of people will /seacom 1-2 pieces in each, and eventually there is freelotting congestion. In addition, "people leaving once they get stuff" is pretty endemic to /seacom groups as well, in fact quite more so. Why stay in a freelotting group once you have everything? It's not like you're gaining points for future unreleased items.

If each Delve Boss NM only drops a few superweapons and takes a full alliance, get ready for more homogenized /seacoms. If you go with a /shout alliance, as you proposed a few pages ago, you will be continually refreshing your pool of competition anew each night while not increasing your odds to a significant degree. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, mind you. I hope the content has a long and healthy /shout life. I like meeting new people when I join /shout groups. But it isn't the only way to accomplish your goals.

Some LS's use point systems just fine. The ones that I've seen work limit bids in some fashion so that one person sitting on a mass of points can't outlot everyone. Points are tracked across multiple events instead of per event, so that spending in one event affects lotting in other events, which makes people prioritize and reduces congestion.

A quick look back on the last expansion series which caused a "similar" uproar.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-was-a-mistake-)

There is always people who dislike content in ffxi. Unlike abuseia, this change is very very very drastic. To the point of insanity and teeth grinding frustration. We enjoy incrimental upgrades, however the incriment suddently changing so rapidly, well it seems to have the vocal minority (or perhaps majority in this instance?) suffering from system-shock and some of us are starting to understand what sort of dehibilitating effect PTSD has on someone.

Now for those whom claim that abyssea did this to us, lets compare 5 weapons shall we?

Bravura 75 (dmg: 99)

Vermeil Bhuj (dmg: 104, net gain of 5, introduced at nose end of abyssea, after a 5 level incriment)

Widowmaker (dmg: 124, net gain of 20, after 10 level incriment at the tail end of abyssea)

Bravura 99 (dmg: 158, 9 level incriment from widowmaker, net gain of 34 dmg but on one of the ultimate weapons, king of the hill for base great-axe damage.)

RazorFury NQ (dmg: 259, no level increase, net gain of 101 damage, which is a bit less than 2/3rds the damage of the prior ultimate weapon, from a crafted source, HQ variant also availible.)

So the incriments comparing a relic, and some availible weapons went: 5 > 20 > 34 > 101. Thats a rather steep incline in you ask me, even if we pull up all the top damage weapons by each update, and older level ranges, and made a chart, i bet this last upgrade would be well off the paper, putting a hole in the roof. This in my opinion is a travesty and a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".

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I understand in theory, but lets be real if i'm a new player started today are you going to tell me to go make a 99 weapon to do delve with? or are you gonna tell me to buy a ah weapon which already beats a 99 R/E/M? my guess is to farm money buy the ah one over spending months making a inferior weapon. The only content you are suggesting is worth doing is SOA making ALL old content not worth doing. If this is the new trend that SE is going to follow in 6 months delve could not be worth doing, and a ah item could be better then the delve equipment. The problem i have with this model is it punishes you for doing old content by giving you shitty rewards, and the only content worth doing is the newest content.

To go off of what you said your right you wouldn't use pearl gear and a 75 weapon, but take a look at ah gear and the new SOA equipment you can get with balyd. Not to bad of gear, and for a weapon lets get ourselves a Tomonari +1 and bam, i have a job fairly well geared with a good weapon without steping foot into old content. (assuming i have gil or friends to help me buy it) Then i take my shiny new gear and weapons into delve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".

---

Alternatively you can skip the whole process spend an hour kiting a Delve NM around with BLMs SMNs and CORs

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.06.58.png
"2004 called - it wants its turtle back"

until it drops dead of exhaustion and not spend the 200m for RME99 and then gain access to weapons that outclass 99 RME for 4-5hours worth of content

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.16.19.png
231 damage great axe sup I am 1/10 of the way from buying you and I have done your event twice

Which is what people will do in reality land

Seriously - I know you really want the whole "stepping stone" thing the devs have fed you to work out but it's not going to work out (look at the lukewarm reception for Meebles - that was designed to be a "Stepping Stone" event) and continuing to defend it just makes you sound naive and moronic

Sorry bro - it's just not how the world works

tldr

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DLJJ/stop...ppen/image.png

Put it this way - "Skirmish" is now a training wheels event
Before the update JPs on my server shouted constantly for Skirmish
Since the update - all silent on the Skirmish front

Because seriously - why would anyone bother with 10+m entry fees on Skirmish for "training weapons"

http://i40.tinypic.com/5aq4g2.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/n2mutx.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/34ni5ab.jpg

Funny thing is while all the new weapons blew everything else into the trash the new armor is barely an upgrade

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bryangelos

The problem i have with this model is it punishes you for doing old content by giving you shitty rewards, and the only content worth doing is the newest content.

---

Do you bemoan the fact that AF1 weapons are no longer worthwhile ways to spend your time? Does the fact that Joyeuse doesn't hold as much sway as it used to upset you? These are once useful items consumed by the unending flow of time. The game is heading a new direction. I'm sorry you won't be here to see it. Change is frightening, but one does not jump out a 10th-story window when someone claims that one of the fire alarms has triggered on the ground level.

And any true person who loves this game will continue to pay. If you don't pay, there will be no change, there will be only death. So thank you for hastening that demise by ceasing to fund this project, then lingering around as long as you can on these forums letting the rest of us know to abandon ship. I apologize. I am being unfair. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Please leave me and everyone else who still enjoys and funds this game in peace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Alternatively you can skip the whole process spend an hour kiting a Delve NM around with BLMs SMNs and CORs

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.06.58.png
"2004 called - it wants its turtle back"

until it drops dead of exhaustion and not spend the 200m for RME99 and then gain access to weapons that outclass 99 RME for 4-5hours worth of content

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.16.19.png
231 damage great axe sup I am 1/10 of the way from buying you and I have done your event twice

Which is what people will do in reality land

Seriously - I know you really want the whole "stepping stone" thing the devs have fed you to work out but it's not going to work out (look at the lukewarm reception for Meebles - that was designed to be a "Stepping Stone" event) and continuing to defend it just makes you sound naive and moronic

Sorry bro - it's just not how the world works

tldr

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DLJJ/stop...ppen/image.png

Put it this way - "Skirmish" is now a training wheels event
Before the update JPs on my server shouted constantly for Skirmish
Since the update - all silent on the Skirmish front

Because seriously - why would anyone bother with 10+m entry fees on Skirmish for "training weapons"

---

Oh, how hard was it to get your delve weapons? Please go on.

I just finished getting my last one last night, and now I'm done with delve and I won the game.

edit: that's sarcasm, I'm sorry again. What I'm trying to say is you're judgining a book by its cover. You have yet to immerse yourself in it, yet you judge it. To be fair, I am no better. I am also judging it. But there are several people here who say they will no longer fund the project I love because they're scared of the direction it's taking without fully comprehending it. Rubbish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Do you bemoan the fact that AF1 weapons are no longer worthwhile ways to spend your time? Does the fact that Joyeuse doesn't hold as much sway as it used to upset you? These are once useful items consumed by the unending flow of time. The game is heading a new direction. I'm sorry you won't be here to see it. Change is frightening, but one does not jump out a 10th-story window when someone claims that one of the fire alarms has triggered on the ground level.

And any true person who loves this game will continue to pay. If you don't pay, there will be no change, there will be only death. So thank you for hastening that demise by ceasing to fund this project, then lingering around as long as you can on these forums letting the rest of us know to abandon ship. I apologize. I am being unfair. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Please leave me and everyone else who still enjoys and funds this game in peace.

---

You still fail to see the point, enjoy delve because doing anything else is a waste of time. The event is easy, kill 1 NM farm items and bam you have your new super gear. You can stop pretending like old content is a stepping stone, and yes you bring up childish arguments like joytoy, but prior to SOA was there only 1 event worth doing? i myself was doing dynamis/legion/limbus/ein/ADL/sky farming for money/salv v1/v2.

And doesn't it upset you that delve weapons are the ONLY weapons worth getting almost? prior to delve you still had people getting lots of other weapons. I mean sure joytoy was replaced with magian weapons, but lets take a look at that time era. My joytoy isn't as good so i can do magian, i can make a emp/relic/mythic, i can do abyssea for other rare/ex weapons off nms, i can go to the ah and buy a weapon which would be better as well. Jump to 2013 right now and hmmm outside of delve weapons i'm hard pressed to think of where i can go to get weapons that keep up with them any ideas for me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Oh, how hard was it to get your delve weapons? Please go on.

I just finished getting my last one last night, and now I'm done with delve and I won the game.

edit: that's sarcasm, I'm sorry agian. What I'm trying to say is you're judgining a book by its cover. You have yet to immerse yourself in it, yet you judge it. To be fair, I am no better. I am also judging it. But there are several people here who say they will no longer fund the project I love because they're scared of the direction it's taking without fully comprehending it. Rubbish.

---

It's not hard to get the content, the only thing that you'll want to go further in Delve is for augments and maybe crafting mats for the AH weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bryangelos

You can stop pretending like old content is a stepping stone, and yes you bring up childish arguments like joytoy

---

Sir, what have I done to offend you so? Why do you dismiss my arguments as childish? What do you think of a person who compares your intelligence to that of a child?

You have already made your decision and there is nothing I can do about it besides berate you because I wish for people to still see the good in this game I enjoy. You linger like a cancer. Not content to die off and leave its host body yourself, you wish to kill off other subscribers.

Can you not see why I would be so defensive against persons like yourself? Think of something you've enjoyed for the past 8 years. Now imagine that I've also enjoyed it for the past 8 years. Now imagine I no longer enjoy it even though you still do. Now imagine I'm talking smack about that thing you still enjoy, yet I no longer take part in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Alternatively you can skip the whole process spend an hour kiting a Delve NM around with BLMs SMNs and CORs

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.06.58.png
"2004 called - it wants its turtle back"

until it drops dead of exhaustion and not spend the 200m for RME99 and then gain access to weapons that outclass 99 RME for 4-5hours worth of content

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_02.16.19.png
231 damage great axe sup I am 1/10 of the way from buying you and I have done your event twice

Which is what people will do in reality land

Seriously - I know you really want the whole "stepping stone" thing the devs have fed you to work out but it's not going to work out (look at the lukewarm reception for Meebles - that was designed to be a "Stepping Stone" event) and continuing to defend it just makes you sound naive and moronic

Sorry bro - it's just not how the world works

tldr

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DLJJ/stop...ppen/image.png

Put it this way - "Skirmish" is now a training wheels event
Before the update JPs on my server shouted constantly for Skirmish
Since the update - all silent on the Skirmish front

Because seriously - why would anyone bother with 10+m entry fees on Skirmish for "training weapons"

---

Good to see Sylow from Fenrir is not just an butt-nugget on ffxiah forums but here as well. yes the old content is a semi stepping stone. as in order for people to get the wins in higher content they wont do it in crap gear for most part. But all I see happening is a bunch of players (nubs) who do not want to waste that time and effort in older content paying mercs to take them and and get the titles. The game is just becoming turn and burn content, there is no way around it. even if they do update REMs which I hope they do soon, what is the point? Once gear starts to become way above and beyond any current content in the game, example in some Cor kiting a damn turtle around for 3 hours. Unless Se plans to revamp all that we know with this new expansion I just do not see where it is going.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Sir, what have I done to offend you so? Why do you dismiss my arguments as childish? What do you think of a person who compares your intelligence to that of a child?

You have already made your decision and there is nothing I can do about it besides berate you because I wish for people to still see the good in this game I enjoy. You linger like a cancer. Not content to die off and leave its host body yourself, you wish to kill off other subscribers.

Can you not see why I would be so defensive against persons like yourself? Think of something you've enjoyed for the past 8 years. Now imagine that I've also enjoyed it for the past 8 years. Now imagine I no longer enjoy it even though you still do. Now imagine I'm talking smack about that thing you still enjoy, yet I no longer take part in.

---

So what your saying is your happiness is more important then mine? If you go back and re read my posts you will see i said i canceled my account and will not return if they continue to go down this path. I enjoyed the fact i had lots of content to do and that kept me busy and happy, i'm not happy with how the game is doing now.

I'm sorry if i'm not thinking of how this effects you and the game YOU enjoy. Also last i checked this was the only place i could tell the dev team how i feel about the direction the game is going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richwood

Good to see Sylow from Fenrir is not just an butt-nugget on ffxiah forums but here as well. yes the old content is a semi stepping stone.

---

These personal attacks do very little to further a good cause. Although I agree with your overall message, I must state my displeasure with your personal attack on my behalf (though I doubt that's what drove you to it, I still feel responsible.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bryangelos

So what your saying is your happiness is more important then mine? If you go back and re read my posts you will see i said i canceled my account and will not return if they continue to go down this path. I enjoyed the fact i had lots of content to do and that kept me busy and happy, i'm not happy with how the game is doing now.

I'm sorry if i'm not thinking of how this effects you and the game YOU enjoy.

---

Like I said: You've made your decision, and there is nothing I can do to change it. But do you tableflip a Monopoly game, then stick around to harass the people who are still trying to play it? Let us have our fun. You've already left.

Edit: But I'll give you a $500 bill and my deed to Park Place if you want back in and agree to behave yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

These personal attacks do very little to further a good cause. Although I agree with your overall message, I must state my displeasure with your personal attack on my behalf (though I doubt that's what drove you to it, I still feel responsible.)

---

I apologize and admire your attitude. For myself I am just a little rough around the edges and do not mind kicking and biting, lo. (*^.^*)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richwood

I apologize and admire your attitude. For myself I am just a little rough around the edges and do not mind kicking and biting, lo. (*^.^*)

---

I must admit, I find it hard to maintain a demeanor such as this, but for FFXI's sake, I do my best. I am always glad to have others on the same side of the argument as myself though.