New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Splinters]

As it stands, the functions of the instruments and shields (High -MDT%, ~100% block rate, +Songs, etc.) are still the best you can ask for in regards to that slot/job. Weapons on the other hand... What's going to do more?

Chant du Cygne with Almace 99?
or
Vorpal Blade with DMG:130, STR+13, Accuracy+25, Attack+25, and "Double Attack"+3%?

As long as I can off-hand this sword and main-hand my Almace I will still smile at my CDC damage. I agree that 2h'ers got a little screwed with the upgrades and don't get me started on the biggest nerf in game history if you are on a pet job.

[Asymptotic]

I dont mind the new cut in adoulin. Infact I find it refreshing VW is now what almost 2 years old and legion 1.5 years? I dont mind haveing now newer or better gear after 2 years, besides not everything got wasted. It would be tough a bit too much if they would do it every 3 months, but I think delve introduced a nice way where weaposn and gear go and I think what will follow now for ~2 years is sidegrades of delve armor/weapons.

Actually what they said is they'd inevitably adjust the content for the players who follow the top players in the new content (because when you're releasing 243 dmg great katanas you have to release new content that people with 243 damage great katanas will be challenged by - the next "content level")

Delve is the "next content level" above Skirmish|Salvage2|NNI etc

In one content level we jump from D55 daggers to D108 '~'

[Byrth]

As long as I can off-hand this sword and main-hand my Almace I will still smile at my CDC damage. I agree that 2h'ers got a little screwed with the upgrades and don't get me started on the biggest nerf in game history if you are on a pet job.

This isn't right for a few reasons:

1) The described Sword is so much better than a 99 Almace that you would do more damage single-wielding it than Dual Wielding it with a pre-patch sword.

2) There exists a similar club that's D130 as well, and BLU can use it. This opens up the possibility of doing Club/Sword and using Realmrazer. Let that sink in for a sec. It's entirely possible that BLU's best easy-to-obtain combination is Club/Sword.

3) 2H users didn't get screwed. The easiest weapons to obtain come from collecting 30k Plasm and crush most/all RME. When 2H jobs obtain one of these weapons, it applies to 100% of their damage. 1H users have to sacrifice Dual Wield as described above or try to Dual Wield two new weapons (which either requires 60k Plasm for two weapon types or 30k plasm and a much harder to obtain/more expensive drop). The average 1H users is going to take a DPS hit relative to 2 handers compared to the pre-patch balance. Monk is an exception, because their 1H weapon is on both hands.

[SpankWustler]

AND AGAIN - no one intelligent is complaining about new strong gear - but when you release weapons with double the strength of weapons that people took hundreds of real hours of manpower to build in the course of a one-month period you can expect that people are going to short circuit

This sums up the main thrust behind a lot of the doubts really well. It's not that the new equipment is strong, or stronger than current options, it's that the new weapons in particular are ridiculously strong compared to anything and everything.

Outmatching current super-weapons is just the tip of the iceberg. The new weapons are ridiculously strong to the point that one-handed melee should consider single-wielding whatever new weapon they get or off-handing something weird in order to use two of the new weapons. The new weapons are strong enough that pet damage and magic damage will soon be even more marginalized.

This is a really bold move and I want to see what the Development Bros are building, but with the new weapons being so crazy-retarded-super-duper and no other significant change being made...right now the construct feels like a half-finished staircase that we can climb just to sit at the top and look down into the abyss.

[bryangelos]

And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

If you actually read my post you will see i don't intend to do new content. I don't know any other way of putting it except i don't like the "your gear is outdated every update model". And to use your example if every update they raised the level cap and we were around lvl 1k right now, i most likely would of quit because that sounds boring.

To add to why i don't like the model its because it makes doing all old content pointless except doing it for the sake of doing it. Like many others have pointed out its not about my gear being the best, if this is there new model in 3 months of me not playing i wouldn't even have gear good enough to do new events. Current 99 weapons compared to delve weapons is like comparing a level 10 gtk to a 99 masa...

[Vinedrai]

they have really crossed the line this time. abyssea gear was a big jump too but not as steep, not even close. some of the new armors are reasonable upgrades while others are sidegrades or maybe even worse but those weapons... ugh... i only have a 90 empy and no relic or mythic but even i feel trolled by the devs with this ridiculously vertical weapon progression. until today we were still talking about how powerful the naakul weapons were and look at them now. they are already outshined in two months and most people didn't even get to fight them seriously at all.

please, if you still have some faith in your own game, keep FFXI as FFXI. we loved the game for its mostly unique item and character progression mechanics. we haven't been around for years to see the game being seemingly broken one day overnight. when abyssea was announced there was a similar rage and SE did lose many subs but at least those equipments lasted several years and are still pretty strong for the most part and were much easier to keep up for the new direction for the game of being more casual friendly.

those weapons didnt even last 3 months this time and even worse, the new armors dont even come close to the item level of the new weapons, not to mention there are only a few exciting pieces for the mages. so there is not even any balance in this update itself. if you don't wanna turn this into a crappy ftp korean mmo, lean back and think again... please.

[Umichi]

You obviously haven't been in a high end LS recently.



1) Airlixir +2s cost something like 100k Plasma and they're used to augment armors. Even if they can be bought with Plasma, will they actually be buyable that way? I don't know, but it wouldn't impact any of the issues I raised if they were.
2) They're the same models as the weapons that drop from the new Bee, Shark, and T-rex on the overworld Wildskeeper Reives. The Delve bosses are a Bee, Shark, and T-rex. It's a fact that's just awaiting confirmation at this point.
3) That's true. Still, how would the drop rate being higher negate what I said?


Yes. I can. Even if the drop rate is fairly high, it's still going to be luck-based whether or not it drops to your alliance and whether or not you win the lot. The content is almost certainly going to be difficult because even the NQ NMs on the overworld are pretty hard right now.



Not nearly to the same degree. At all. You're talking about farming 17,000 items that drops ~2.5/kill (Relic), 30,000 items that give ~100/run (Mythic), or ~175 items that drop ~1.5/kill (Empyrean). Those are just a matter of preparedness and directing all your resources towards the goal for the job you like. The new system is just a matter of going in with your alliance, and if it drops then maybe you lot it and gear your dragoon. Why would you do that? Well, because if you get that polearm then Dragoon can easily become your best DD job.

Drg is my best DD job whm is my second job thats ever even reach 90's

[MarkovChain]

they had their place, especially back in 36x people dynamis... if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably weren't there.


Edit: Also sky linkshells, pretty much any real content pre ToAU and somewhat ToAU/WotG (If you remember Ixion farming...)

I was there and that's why I say they don't work. Most of those shells where an army of gimps with 3-4 ppl knowing wtf to do and the other were leeching. I remember a group 6-manning everything in sky and that's how it should be done - instead you had point systems LSs that got destroyed everytime a dedicated player got his byakko. Point systems in dynamis didn't work because you always had an idiot willing to farm their gimp windy AF instead of xarc or beaucedine. Limbus was the worst thing to do with points. I've had like 4 of them and didn't get what I wanted... because only like one piece of nashira didn't suck ?

Trust me the best of all system is everything free lot with small limits on the kind of thing you can lot etc. Point system destroy LSs, they make people leave once they get stuff, they make other ragequit for another LS etc. The simple idea of points implies that it going to fail because it implicitely assumes that dedication will vary a lot which shouldn't be happening for your "LS" to work. Guess why almost all players with top notch gear have one or several accounts ?

[MarkovChain]

3) 2H users didn't get screwed. The easiest weapons to obtain come from collecting 30k Plasm and crush most/all RME. When 2H jobs obtain one of these weapons, it applies to 100% of their damage. 1H users have to sacrifice Dual Wield as described above or try to Dual Wield two new weapons (which either requires 60k Plasm for two weapon types or 30k plasm and a much harder to obtain/more expensive drop). The average 1H users is going to take a DPS hit relative to 2 handers compared to the pre-patch balance. Monk is an exception, because their 1H weapon is on both hands.

I didn't crunch numbers but I'm under the impression that increasing the weapon's damage has a minor effect on all 100% mod WS (what else would you use anyway ?) while they greatly affect melee hits. Going to guess post patch DDs are going to be mainly DOT including SAMs and DRKS or WARs. I don't think x hit build make sense still.

[Yinnyth]

To add to why i don't like the model its because it makes doing all old content pointless except doing it for the sake of doing it.

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".