NEO Nyzul 2.0

So people are saying that Wish was lucky with lamps... That's fine, but that should mean that anybody should be able to get lucky with lamps.

I got Heka's body on my 1st run of Akvan. That means everyone should be able to get Heka's on their 1st run of Akvan. No, luck is luck is luck, you can not predict it and you can not say everyone will get lucky all the same, doesn't work that way. In this past week I fought Hahava dualboxing my GF & PLD Mule, my Mule got the body on the 2nd kill of the 2nd run I did with her, the 4th fight of that same set, she got another, then the 1st kill of my 3rd run, my GF's character got yet another. No one else in the entire alliance got a body that day, only me, does this mean everyone could get one? Well yes, everyone could, however luck did not permit them to, if someone really wanted that body as a drop they may be there doing 100+ kills where I only did about 30 if you add up the kills between characters, and got 3 of them.

VW is luck on a lesser scale than this because this has not just random rewards, it has the entire events progression from when you go in as a massive die roll to determine what every floor is on a massive scale. I got lucky with VW a few times in my past, however I have had no such luck with NNI, not even close. If I ever start with 8~9s I end up with 2~3s, if I start at 4~5 I get that whole run, and so on. Not that you can not win with these numbers, but my groups tend not to suck so bad I think they couldn't do it if it were reasonably doable. On another note, saying you can clear 20 floors is somewhat pointless in my eyes seeing as its also what those contain that makes it a problem or not, as I said before, Soulflayer floors suck, kill all floors when they are big and spread out, suck. If you start a kill leader floor with the NM in the room right next to you, thats a great floor, takes 10~15 seconds at most.

As I said, skill mitigates luck, it does not remove it. Luck effects everything from floor jumps to what mobs are on the floor, to what your objective is. Killing 20 floors where most are fast easy floors, is nice, but saying killing 20 floors isn't so impressive when you notice it can be so simple. However you can say you only killed 14 floors with a great team, doesn't mean you suck, it means you had floors that were kill all, where the area took 2 minutes to walk from 1 side to the other, and Soulflayers were all over causing lovely para on your DDs so they take longer to kill, or got kill leader floors where its the Soulflayer NM, and it wipes your buffs, even the great Flan NM, but your WAR wasn't the 1 to find it, and instead went the other way, and takes a minute to get there to help with Tomahawk. There is much more than simply what number of floors you complete to account for, thats why I keep saying that, and you cant really tell me I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by hiko

you're lucky with lamp. we did some old nyzul climb. got 8 order from 0 to 90(+ some code or same time), and 90-100 we had a lamp 1floor/2 (luckly only code and same time)

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I've been doing a ton of NNI, typically you get 1 lamp floor per 8~10 jumps. Some runs they won't appear, other will have three of them.

I watched the videos and spotted a few interesting things. Either SE is being INCREDIBLY nice to wish's group and not giving them huge floors, or his/her melee's are doing "magic". Wish was moving entirely too slow to clear 16~17 floors, there is a reason he's the "lamp b!tch".

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Originally Posted by saevel

Wish was moving entirely too slow to clear 16~17 floors, there is a reason he's the "lamp b!tch".

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Yo dawg, SCH mule is like a week and a half old, and I havent played a mage job seriously since RDM in 2004->2006. And I will openly admit I am effing terrible at it. I suck so bad at SCH it's not even funny. It takes me forever to notice people are dieing, find macros to cure people, use the right JAs before buffs, cast NA spells, sleep things, learn regen duration timing to recast it properly, etc. I can personally improve a ton, and that would greatly help my groups kill speed and increase our floor count. So I have been bringing my SCH to different stuff, like VW and whatever I see shouts for, to try and get use to playing it, but man, it's tough learning to do something new.

As far as luck goes, I had one run that seriously went awesome. 2 free floors, tons of good floor jumps, took us 15~ minutes to hit 85, then every single floor jump we got for second half of the run was 2-3 floors. hit 96 with 3~ min left, hit 98 with 2 minutes left, and it was the most massive floor I ever seen, and it was kill all. So we timed out. But you know what? Who cares. Our win rate is still 40-50%, which means we will lose half of them. This is expected.

When I say things like, a normal group should expect to clear 16-17 floors on average, and will win once a week, that means you will lose 6x in a week, due to 'bad luck' or whatever you want it call it. I call it expected, and not something to worry about. The number of floors on average your group can clear in a run is the only determining factor in how long it will take you to progress all the way through and get all 15 pieces of gear, if you want them. Because I go into the zone only expecting to win 30-50% of them, I don't find it surprising when I get completely screwed over half the time and time out on 95+.

Day before yesterday I did 2 neo nyzul runs, won one of them. Today did 3 more, won one of them. I'll be posting a new video of new runs on my youtube later tonight or, more likely, tomorrow and come back and post a link here too. The point of this post is to say that in 2~ weeks I have managed to acquire every piece of gear from this event my mule needs, while people like Pchan complain that it's to hard and impossible to win and wait for SE to "fix" the event. Good luck to the rest of you with finishing this event, if you want any tips feel free to ask.

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...0ac472e733.png

Edit: Just for refference- 7 wins, and only 1 win had an order lamp floor. lol

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

This new video even has sound! Totally managed to not mess up the sound while editing this time. This run we only did 18 floors total, which isn't bad, but we only had like 1 minute left after we won, lol.

The problem is with the 'easy' atmosphere Abyssea created. After the Abyssea Era people don't want to wait any longer than they have to to get what they want and that includes cheating to get it done faster if necessary. Not to mention the fact that after Abyssea it is likely that the majority of players has a job at 99 that can wear each of the NNI sets. So now you have people that want all 15 pieces who just got done with the ease of Abyssea being able to finish things in days. They don't want to wait 5 or 6 months getting 1 piece of gear every week or2 and they will cheat to make sure they get it all much faster.

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Originally Posted by Bojack

The problem is with the 'easy' atmosphere Abyssea created. After the Abyssea Era people don't want to wait any longer than they have to to get what they want and that includes cheating to get it done faster if necessary. Not to mention the fact that after Abyssea it is likely that the majority of players has a job at 99 that can wear each of the NNI sets. So now you have people that want all 15 pieces who just got done with the ease of Abyssea being able to finish things in days. They don't want to wait 5 or 6 months getting 1 piece of gear every week or2 and they will cheat to make sure they get it all much faster.

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Because nobody cheated before abyssea......

Abyssea simply added a better Reward/Effort ratio, now that it has passed people want to see more than the same since we saw that SE is not completely unable to do a good amount of rewards for effort. I am sorry to tell you but I don't find it fun or enjoyable, to do the same thing over and over again, without reward, or progress. NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Abyssea simply added a better Reward/Effort ratio, now that it has passed people want to see more than the same since we saw that SE is not completely unable to do a good amount of rewards for effort. I am sorry to tell you but I don't find it fun or enjoyable, to do the same thing over and over again, without reward, or progress. NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

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It's not so much progress as goal / game style. FFXI was designed in 2001~2002, people need to keep this in mind. The big MMO at the time was EQ and trust me, EQ SUCKED for effort / reward ratios. Just leveling to cap was considered an epic accomplishment on pre-abyssea Relic acquisition level. The game's primary content was focused on you leveling your character and their associated skills. It was more a social activity then a video game. FFXI was modeled more in this manor, that was Tanaka's vision.

Then Blizzzard released WoW and showed everyone that you don't need to be a social / grind focused game to be successful. Blizzard combined elements of FPS / Action Adventure games into MMO RPG character building. It made the game much more interactive, your primary source of fun game in running around killing murgs for their shinys. Leveling / skilling become something you did to get to the "real" fun.

That is what abyssea was to FFXI and why Tanaka hated it so much. The gear acquisition rate is a side effect of making battle focused interactive content. Abyssea wasn't about story or social interactions, it was about killing murgs for their shinys and getting enough shinys to allow you to kill faster to get even more shinys. That is why there is a portion of the community that absolutely hates Abyssea, their wanting a more social old-fashioned MMO experience while the rest of us want a more battle for rewards / goals focused MMO experienced. The new guy seems to be more of the later crowd and I'm thankful for it.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

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It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.

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Not going to stop calling it luck when every bit of it yells luck in your face and skill simply mitigates it. You cant say that NNI isn't luck based on a level, because everything in the event is random from when you start. Floor jumps, objectives, mobs, layouts, pathos, size of floor, gears, all are nice and unpredictable. The amount of preparation, and the skill/communication of players, makes a dent in the luck factor, however it doesn't stop it, bad jumps, floors, and pathos, will always be the cause of losses given they are bad enough. Skilled group can go 20 jumps of 4 on average, and lose, other group can go do 15 jumps of 7 on average, reach floor 100, but WS pathos and 1 minute remaining isn't quite enough to win.

In either case the month long for 1 piece is off of the idea of doing 25 runs of floor 80 for a single 100 piece, which is much to long. Doing that is the only progressive style of rewards in NNI, as doing that is the only way you are nearly guaranteed some progress to getting a piece of gear, however if you lose trying to get to 100, there is no progress, only a loss, and when you try 100 more times, if you still don't make it to 100, there is still no more or less progress for a piece of gear.

Abyssea had progression for everything you did, Emps being a good example being that it always gave 1 item, with a chance at 2, you never killed a NM for an Emp and got nothing for it. This event is much more limiting on time, and much less rewarding for effort, as if you do not go all the way, you either wait a month for 1 piece of gear or you get nothing at all for attempting to make it to 100, and failing.

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Originally Posted by saevel

It's not so much progress as goal / game style. FFXI was designed in 2001~2002, people need to keep this in mind. The big MMO at the time was EQ and trust me, EQ SUCKED for effort / reward ratios. Just leveling to cap was considered an epic accomplishment on pre-abyssea Relic acquisition level. The game's primary content was focused on you leveling your character and their associated skills. It was more a social activity then a video game. FFXI was modeled more in this manor, that was Tanaka's vision.

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Because EQ was totally the only MMOG on the market at the time? If you ask me, FFXI was designed by someone who had the concept of MMOGs described to them and they went ahead and made one based off of that.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

It took me 2 weeks to finish Neo Nyzul for my mule. If you're not bad at FFXI, the event doesn't revolve around luck, and you finish it rather quickly. Getting 1 piece of gear a month is just pathetic. Neo Nyzul has an amazing effort to reward ratio. Two weeks, 10-15~ hours, 8 awesome pieces of gear. How is that even remotely bad for FFXI or any other MMO? I have said this repeatedly, and now demonstrated it in video repeatedly. Now stop calling it luck.

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Good for your mule? The only videos I've seen you post were from the perspective of a character that mills a round at the start, who's only job is to cast buffs and use the Transfer. I suppose your idea of how easy it is would be pretty skewed if you're doing the easy job.

I don't know how you can call a system that can potentially give you 6 2-floor jumps in a single run anything but luck based. We had such a run just last week with a few 3-floor jumps thrown in for good measure. Guess what? We didn't win.

People who cheat their asses off don't even have a 100% win rate.

They clearly didn't intend for people to win that often, otherwise they wouldn't have given you a guaranteed item of your choice for winning.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK the fact that I cant win isn't my fault because this event is all LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK LUCK

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This is all I see when I read your posts.
Math says if you clear XX number of floors you win X% of the time. That's how this event works. Suck less, get a higher floor clear average, finish the event faster. If anything this event is skill and gear driven.

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Originally Posted by Cymmina

Good for your mule? The only videos I've seen you post were from the perspective of a character that mills a round at the start, who's only job is to cast buffs and use the Transfer.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

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Look more, I posted 4 or 5 different runs, this one being the best since I finally managed to learn movie maker enough to not delete the audio and cut videos correctly, and its not sped up, and blah blah blah. I just suggest watching this one.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

This is all I see when I read your posts.
Math says if you clear XX number of floors you win X% of the time. That's how this event works. Suck less, get a higher floor clear average, finish the event faster. If anything this event is skill and gear driven.

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People go 1/1 on bodies in VW, others go 1/1000 on bodies in VW, % does not always mean it will definitely happen that much. You can read what you want, I know what the event is, its common sense.

I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint, or statement on what it is, I simply tell it as I see it, and sorry, but when everything from start to finish is a roll of a die, luck is involved.

As I said, skill & gear mitigate the luck, but a group of skilled and geared players can still average 4 floor jumps, in a 20 jump run, and lose. The same with that group that jumps only 15 times, hits floor 100, and then gets WS Pathos, with only 1 minute or less remaining and ends up timing out. Its luck, good or bad, either way, luck.

.......... Yeah, this thread wreaks of spite....


Co.grats on the clears.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

People go 1/1 on bodies in VW, others go 1/1000 on bodies in VW, % does not always mean it will definitely happen that much. You can read what you want, I know what the event is, its common sense.

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There's nothing you can do to directly change the drop rate in VW and make it drop what you want 100% of the time. The difference with Neo Nyzul is that once you win, you get the item you want.

If there was an option in VW like, kill this mob in under 2 minutes and everyone gets a drop of their choice, it would be skill based just like Neo Nyzul is.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint, or statement on what it is, I simply tell it as I see it, and sorry, but when everything from start to finish is a roll of a die, luck is involved.

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Luck is not involved when you look at the big picture. If you can clear 20 floors a run, that means you will win 40%~ and lose 60%~ It's not luck that you do 100 runs you will have won around 40 and lost around 60. Luck would be if you won 60 or lost 80. Unfortunately for you that doesn't happen. It's expected that you lose 60% of the runs. So it's not luck that keeps you from winning every single run, it's the expected result. Expected results are not luck.

However, if you gear better, bring better jobs, work better as a team with your group, use voice chat, etc. You can directly impact the amount of time it takes to finish this event by substantially increasing your average # of floor clears per run, which increases your win percentage. No amount of luck in the world would give a group of people who clear 15 floors/run my groups win rate when we're in the 22~ range.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

As I said, skill & gear mitigate the luck, but a group of skilled and geared players can still average 4 floor jumps, in a 20 jump run, and lose.

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Again, you're only suppose to win 40%~ of the runs at 20 floors. You think those other 60% of runs are just going to stop you when you reach 100 and tell you that you're not allowed to win? No. Theyre going to give you crap jumps and crap objectives the whole run. It's not luck because it's something that is expected to happen, 60% of the time. When it occurs more or less often than this, it would be luck. Unfortunately for you, by the time you finish getting 15/15 in Neo Nyzul your average win percentage will be exactly what the predicted estimate will be. So you can't call it luck. I don't know how many more ways I can say this.

I think he still isn't winning lol. This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage. Kaerin is right. I'm a prime example. I went with a group that knows what they're doing, and they do excellent at it, and they win. I went with my other 3 nyzle groups, and let's just say, it cannot be done with the way they play. It's not luck, it's skill. Luck is only a part of how the floors jump, as expected. Learn how to gear your jobs, hope to avoid order lamps if you are like me and play xbox, and hope to win. Keep trying and get better gear to compensate until you get your nyzle gear.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

In either case the month long for 1 piece is off of the idea of doing 25 runs of floor 80 for a single 100 piece, which is much to long. Doing that is the only progressive style of rewards in NNI, as doing that is the only way you are nearly guaranteed some progress to getting a piece of gear, however if you lose trying to get to 100, there is no progress, only a loss, and when you try 100 more times, if you still don't make it to 100, there is still no more or less progress for a piece of gear.

Abyssea had progression for everything you did, Emps being a good example being that it always gave 1 item, with a chance at 2, you never killed a NM for an Emp and got nothing for it. This event is much more limiting on time, and much less rewarding for effort, as if you do not go all the way, you either wait a month for 1 piece of gear or you get nothing at all for attempting to make it to 100, and failing.

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Luck based for NNI doesn't mean it's "bad", considering everything in MMO, or at least everything in FFXI are 99% luck based.
If you don't like luck based, then you may as well not play an MMO.

Say if 17 floor jump has 30% chance to win, and it's possible to do 100 17 floor jump run and still didn't hit F100 cuz you're extremely unlucky and get nothing, that's just same as doing dyna-xarc for 40 times and no RDM hat/THF hands drop and get nothing, or doing salvage 150 times and can't get that bee NM to pop from rampart, or killing HQ behemoth for 100 times and no Dring drop. NNI is not the only event that you get nothing when you have bad luck, so does VW, salvage, dyna, HNM, legion, limbus, Ein, and every single event that involved drop or nothing.

Does that means you make "no progress" when it doesn't drop? I'd say no, since every run you attempted that doesn't drop, you should treat it as an investment for a chance to get it. If you can't view it this way, then you may as well not to play drop based MMO since you will feel bad if it doesn't drop and you get nothing.

If the 17 floor jump has 30% win rate, then avg every 3 17 floor jump run you will get an 100. If Qilin dagger has 0.1% of drop rate, than avg 1000 Qilin kill can get you the dagger. So your goal is to do it as many times as possible. That's same as doing abyssea X amount of time to get the empy. Except the difference is you can't see your "progress" when your item doesn't drop. But every no drop run, it should be treated as a progress too. The difference between an empy farm and doing NNI for F100 gear is really only visible difference and that's it.

If you don't like invisible progress, doesn't like to invest a run for no drop, then all I can say is majority of game content in this game probably isn't for you, and you may as well play other MMO or just do Abyssea only. And gl finding a MMO that has 0 luck factor in it. Last time I checked, majority of popular MMO/RPGs are still luck based for everything.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I think he still isn't winning lol. This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage. Kaerin is right. I'm a prime example. I went with a group that knows what they're doing, and they do excellent at it, and they win. I went with my other 3 nyzle groups, and let's just say, it cannot be done with the way they play. It's not luck, it's skill. Luck is only a part of how the floors jump, as expected. Learn how to gear your jobs, hope to avoid order lamps if you are like me and play xbox, and hope to win. Keep trying and get better gear to compensate until you get your nyzle gear.

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Most of the "skill" involved is communication and coordination. Once your past that it's down to pure luck on how many 2~3 jump floors you get, or how stupid your objectives are.

Wish is talking out their 5th point of contact, he's the pole SCH, the one without secret ninja magic. Without secret ninja magic your talking less then 5% win rate, heck I'd say somewhere in the 1~2% win rate. Many floors are too big and running around with powder boots won't much help due to their activation time. When your talking ~80s or less average per floor, your not winning unless you get absolutely no c8ck blocks along the way.

So now only do you need a "perfect" run where you get nothing but 6+ jumps, you also need to not hit more then 1 floor boss while also not getting order lamps or any large floors.

... Yeah that ~could~ happen in theory. In all my NNI time I haven't seen it happen once, secret ninja magic just allows you to sustain a few c*ck blocks without blowing your run.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I think he still isn't winning lol.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I myself haven't done NNI recently because I am making a new static with better people, and have been taking the time to make sure we have the right gear to get it done as best we can. In either case it has nothing to do with my complaint.

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This is the guy that wants to bring red mage to nyzle. ANd red mage can keep on par with damage with a blue mage.

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This again... Heres an old post of mine from this thread a good... 25 pages ago.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Once again, if this event required skill, they would make the drops luck based like they used to be. Then we would be bitching our skill isn't giving us reward (VW). NO NO NO red mage CANNOT melee even close to as efficient as a heavy DD or a dnc nin thf mnk pup blu. They're an enfeebling master. That's what they're designed to do. So stop saying it can. I had a melee rdm, it didn't work. What do you seriously want them to do to this event? How the hell would they make it "skill based"? How would they make it "skill" based without making it extremely easy for the current setups of sch x2 4 heavy DD? YOu want them to make it so you can go in with 6 bst and clear content no problem and get the best gear in the game, using said "skill" of pressing 4 buttons. Or 6 red mages "meleeing" fodder mobs. So much skill right. Give me good suggestions and the dev team good suggestions on how not to break the event and make it too easy on 2 SCH 4 heavy DD setups while making it managable for other random job setups to do the event and I will be satisfied.

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READ THIS

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI (Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be able to, meleeing I tend to out damage most other LDDs and some HDDs and none of my other jobs beat it in damage) I'm saying something other than just 4HDDs & 2SCH should be able to. The fact they made it so limited is just flat out stupid, your excluding what is basically 75% of jobs from participation, I know everyone has the ease of getting anything they want to 99 in 1~5 days, but that doesn't make it right that everyone is be limited to 5 choices they might not even like or enjoy just to get some gear for a different job.

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Lets look at that again...

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI

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Get your head out of your ass for 10 seconds and read my post and you might actually understand something! I said, many times, I do not expect RDM to do NNI, I understand it can't, you want to know 1 main reason above all else?

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Its not hard to read. Its fairly simple, not hard to grasp. It gets annoying that you take my words out of context every time this subject pops up and you feel like speaking out. In either case, I know how to do NNI, and already said I made a new static and am making sure the people in it are geared up for it. The point still stands, I could go win 15 runs in a row, starting today, and I wouldn't think any different, I would say I was lucky. I could go with a perfect 40/60% win/loss rate, still would say its luck.

If anyone can explain how the layout & contents of a floor, along with pathos, does not effect your run because your skilled, by all means, do. I however think that no matter how skilled you are, large floors, soulflayer floors, and bad jumps, are a massive screw over, not to mention when WS pathos pops up at the worst times, like NM floors, or boss floors.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Luck based for NNI doesn't mean it's "bad", considering everything in MMO, or at least everything in FFXI are 99% luck based.
If you don't like luck based, then you may as well not play an MMO.

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In most cases, luck is simple, its only 1 thing that is random that reflects your rewards, and the battle itself is normally put down to skill alone. NNI for you to win, you go through the luck part and will definitely get something if you win. The major difference here is skill doesn't pop up except to mitigate the luck, more luck, more floors you complete, more jumps you make, and thus better odds of winning because bad jumps or floors have less of a chance of stopping you cold.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Wish is talking out their 5th point of contact, he's the pole SCH, the one without secret ninja magic. Without secret ninja magic your talking less then 5% win rate, heck I'd say somewhere in the 1~2% win rate.

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No, no, no, no, no. Did you even watch videos I posted beyond the first? 75% of the time I am not the rune SCH. My group has a 40% win rate without secret magic or any other BS excuse you're trying to claim. This event is simple: Good players win, Bad players don't. Become a good player and you will clear this content in a few weeks. My group clears 20 floors on average and won 7 and lost 9 or 10. Suck less, quit making excuses, etc.

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

And Demon, youre just bad, I dont even care, suck less and you'll win, that simple.

I've already seen your vid's wish, their just you running around by yourself most of the time. Your group is running incredibly slow, at least on camera. The floors are so large that it takes ages to run to the bottom and get the last specified family, and god help you if you get kill all and it's that big. There are a number of things that spell instant fail. It's rather strange, of all the crying about NNI the ~ONLY~ "video" is a pole SCH running around by themselves claiming that their simply "better" then everyone else. Only way you have a 40% "win rate" is your melee's have attended the azure underwear school of secret ninja techniques.

Now what's really happening, your melee's are using secret ninja magic and lots of it. As one of the SCH's you don't need any of it, just powder boots. For lamps they will plant you at one and tell you when to fire it off cause they know the order.

You may be able to BS the pleebs out there, but having done a metric f*ck ton of NNI to get members of my LS gear I know your BSing. Most others who regularly do NNI know your BSing. We realize you don't want it nerfed as you and our group are most likely using it for mercing, and that would be bad for business.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

No, no, no, no, no. Did you even watch videos I posted beyond the first? 75% of the time I am not the rune SCH. My group has a 40% win rate without secret magic or any other BS excuse you're trying to claim. This event is simple: Good players win, Bad players don't. Become a good player and you will clear this content in a few weeks. My group clears 20 floors on average and won 7 and lost 9 or 10. Suck less, quit making excuses, etc.

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

And Demon, youre just bad, I dont even care, suck less and you'll win, that simple.

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Meh, it does not matter how good you are. Bad jumps will fuck the run up probably every one out of four or so runs regardless. There is too much luck involved. Nothing like clearing four two or three floor jumps in record time only to know you could have been at floor 20+ in shorter time with better jumps instead of floor 8 or 12.

That being said my group (SAM DRK WAR BLU SCH SCH) has about a 50%+ win rate with no movement cheating, powder boots, or any of that annoyance. In fact one member does not even have w legs for his DRK. Only had one night we did not win any runs. Lately it has been 2/3 wins with the loss always being in the 90s. We have lost on floor 99 more than any other floor.

I think most of the problem with people who can not win is that they have bad strategy, ordinary gear, and a lack of coordination. I save a lot of time by taking a room on all floors and AoEing it to death on BLU while everyone moves on to more mobs. IMO you gain more from VOIP than anything else. Being able to call out dead ends early, telling people to keep going because you will solo this mob, and verbally notifying direction for NMs, singles, and lamps shaves time off everywhere. Even for (dare I say it?) calling out skill chains. The WAR and I go one way on boss floors and the SAM and DRK the other way. When we find the NM I set up light with CDC and the WAR rape closes it with Ukon.

Nyzul is actually really easy even if the lamps could use adjustment IMO.The difficulty is solely in the random floor jumps.

Only two right things in your post are the following :
*lamp floors completely suck
*being able to talk to others while playing increases your success rate.

So basically you are agreeing with all the comlaints so stop defending it. When the devs did post about nyzul they did say they wanted people to reach F80 if not too unlucky anf F100 if extremely lucky. Turns out this is not what is happening by any means. They also ajusted it so that you can either get F80 or 100. If at least we had the possiblility to go up after F80. You could easily imagine F80 being forced.