New 2-hour Abilities

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

[...]With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well. [...]

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The JP version of this post mentions that PD and Embrava will be weakened first and content relying on them to be won, readjusted at a later time.
What are supposed to do people who made groups/linkshells dedicated solely for the purpose of Nyzul Isle, ADL or Legion do in the weeks/months between PD and Embrava being invalidated and content adjusted?
I realise party/alliance full of Ragnaroks and Daurdablas99 might not suffer as much, but even then going for something like ADL or Paramount Botulus will be an interesting thing to see.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements.

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Let's look at Summoner outside the use of Astral Flow/Astral Conduit. You can use an offensive Blood Pact every 45 seconds, and a defensive Blood Pact every 45 seconds (provided delay is capped). Your melee damage in between is.. pathetic, and you can only provide your pet with 10% Haste in gear to enhance this (5% head, 5% belt), as well as +9% critical hit rate (3% head, 6% body). Blood Pacts deal around the same damage as a single weapon skill, or tier 5 nuke provided you use a decent mix of gear and don't stick to the fulltime AF3 garbage.
If you want to make them useful for endgame outside PD/squall... increase the frequency of Blood Pacts outside of a 30~120 min JA that lasts 30 seconds.

Scholar's situation isn't as bad, but a WHM is more proficient at curing, and a BLM is more proficient at nuking. If your not in need of Embrava for an Endgame event, you tend to favour WHM/BLM since they're better at the role required.

Now, not jumping the gun and saying "SMN/SCH are going to be useless when PD/Embrava is nerfed" because the honest truth is no one knows to what extent they are getting nerfed. But please bear in mind that you do need to look into how to make other jobs (not just SMN/SCH) useful since you have acknowledged the increase in battle speed this game has experienced.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

We feel that it's unfair to have RDM sat in the corner all alone in uselessness, so by nerfing PD and Embrava, RDM will no longer be alone!

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Or something like that?

If you uncouple shared recasts like Spirit/Soul jump >>PLEASE<<< do not make them weaker. One of the community reps said the reason why they grant so much TP is because it's a shared timer and if the timers became unshared they would need to weaken the effects. Please do not weaken spirit and soul jump by lowering their recast or their damage or their TP generation. DRG needs TP generation to deal damage compared to compete at all with other damage dealers. Spirit Surge is a 2hour version of a 25% ability haste which lasts for 60 seconds--compared to Last Resort which does the same haste but also grants attack boost and lasts for 3minutes and 5min recast!!

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

If you uncouple shared recasts like Spirit/Soul jump >>PLEASE<<< do not make them weaker. One of the community reps said the reason why they grant so much TP is because it's a shared timer and if the timers became unshared they would need to weaken the effects. Please do not weaken spirit and soul jump by lowering their recast or their damage or their TP generation. DRG needs TP generation to deal damage compared to compete at all with other damage dealers. Spirit Surge is a 2hour version of a 25% ability haste which lasts for 60 seconds--compared to Last Resort which does the same haste but also grants attack boost and lasts for 3minutes and 5min recast!!

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Last Resort can be merited down to 4min10s. Sorry to add salt to your wounds :/

Seconding this. While I'd love separate timer for jump/high jump and spirit/soul jump, if you have to nerf them to do it, don't bother. We'd just end up with twice as much JA delay cutting into our melee for the same or less TP gain.

Now, if they won't be nerfed, then /joy, 4 jumps!

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Scherzo and earthen armor are worthless on this fight unless you're severely underleveled or you intentionally gear up with as much -HP junk as you can find. I don't know where you'd get the idea they'd be useful. There's other problems with your suggested strategy, but I'll just let them get by for now because I'm freaking tired of hearing people think scherzo does anything when you're getting beat on by 4 targets who only hit for 300-700 damage.

ADL is not hard because he hits for massive damage in single hits. He's hard because you have to deal with 2-4 of them spamming aga III (IV when lower on health), and AoE WSs which do too little damage to trigger scherzo. It's like thinking scherzo will save you vs. hundred fists.

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If I hadn't killed without PD I'd agree with you. But I have and so have otheres.....squall is a powerful tool, he won't be getting much of anything off. Earthen armor/scherzo are just part of stacking the odds, good DDs and squalls are the foundation.

Is it fool proof, hell no, is it doable, without a doubt.

How about giving DNC some of that "Not shared JA Timers" love? =P

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Originally Posted by Akihiko Matsui

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

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Somewhat of an inconvenience? Talk about a huge understatement. I am all for you all creating content that doesn't revolve around us needing to be invincible in order to win consistently. The problem I have is that you still don't seem to understand that certain jobs have practically ZERO use in endgame content. For all of this talk of balance, this is an area that you have not properly addressed. You are going to need to do more than just "widen their area of play and usefulness." I would like a statement showing some serious commitment to this issue. "Somewhat of an inconvenience" does not inspire much confidence.

That is why so many of us have continued to ask for adjustments to the many useless spells and abilities SCH has because without Embrava the job is left basically in the exact same place it was in years ago. (And we all knew an Embrava nerf was coming.) Sure SCH is a better healer now, but that isn't going to get it invited to just about anything. SMN has use now for Shock Squall and Earthen Armor occasionally. Astral Flow has returned to being fairly lackluster as well. I already have free avatars, normal BPs do more damage and Odin is pretty useless.

I'll be satisfied when I see details for revamping the enmity system, the animus spells, Aldoquium, Libra, MV, Ward potency, BP timer caps, avatar melee damage, avatar favor mechanics, etc.

Don't get me wrong. There are other jobs out there who have it worse than SCH and SMN. You've just effectively moved them to top tier of the misfits club.

I'm excited for all of the other changes. Splitting those JA timers and addressing some of the new content is awesome news.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

If I hadn't killed without PD I'd agree with you. But I have and so have otheres.....squall is a powerful tool, he won't be getting much of anything off. Earthen armor/scherzo are just part of stacking the odds, good DDs and squalls are the foundation.

Is it fool proof, hell no, is it doable, without a doubt.

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Of course it's doable. But what exactly is scherzo + EA doing for you? What ability does ADL use that does 800+ damage in a single hit? Even though he synchs his WSs perfectly when he splits, they're both checked seperately for whether or not scherzo will have an effect. Having dozens of ADL attempts under my belt, I have yet to see him do any attack besides Thundaga IV on a single target or Dynamic Assault which would actually cause scherzo to proc. If Thundaga IV is on a single target, you're in trouble anyways. Dynamic Assault he only uses at higher HPs, is a single-target attack, and is still survivable by most melees.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. I'm not saying "it's impossible to win without PD." I'm saying "why are you using scherzo?" Scherzo is almost completely worthless vs. ADL. You may as well be using aubade to increase sleep resist.

I'm so glad PD and Embrava are getting nerfed cause the idea of full time embrava and pd for all endgame was zzzzz

As for where this will leave SCH and SMN

SCH with it's Regen V + nearly infinite mp makes it a better healer than WHM in alot of places and also makes it take the spot as second healer. (not to mention SCH/BLM is an amazing stunner)

SMN has been broken for too long :(

All it really has now is Shock squall and fights like Proto-Ultima

It needs a DMG boost and when it's DMG isn't useful it should get better surrport options.

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Somewhat of an inconvenience? Talk about a huge understatement. I am all for you all creating content that doesn't revolve around us needing to be invincible in order to win consistently. The problem I have is that you still don't seem to understand that certain jobs have practically ZERO use in endgame content

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Hyperbole much ....

SMN has Shock Squall and as others have said, it's pretty amazing provided the SMN has their skill capped. SMN could stand to have those stupid timers lowered to 30s or less though. Also needs it's buffs duration set to 3~5min so that they could use them more frequently.

SCH is wow ... if you seriously so ignorant as to think SCH has "no use in end game" then there's nothing anyone can say to convince you otherwise.

Otherwise there are indeed jobs that are left out due to their near uselessness, none of those jobs were mentioned in this recent info and if anything having their "2hrs" on a 30min timer might make them a bit more useful.

What's really happening is people are scared sh1tless that SE is about to nerf the two mechanics they've been abusing to beat SE's stupid "Evil GM" content. Content that was designed to never be regularly beaten and to suck playtime out of you. I was worried about this until the recent message stating they were already aware that some content currently requires those special ability's to beat. They will be looking into revising that content to be frequently be beatable without having to resort to abusing PD / Embrava mechanics.

Maybe it will help push the game back in the right direction of tanks actually being viable over just zerging everything.

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Originally Posted by Vagrua

Maybe it will help push the game back in the right direction of tanks actually being viable over just zerging everything.

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Not until they fix enmity. Right now your melee are your tanks and absolutely no other way for it to work. Doing a 3K WS nets you approx 3000 CE and 9000 VE, the enmity caps are 10000 CE and 10000 VE, "Provoke is 1800 VE and 1CE, Flash is something like 1280 VE and some small amount of CE. So you can see that damage by FAR outweighs all other sources of hate gain, and once multiple people are at 20,000 TE the monster will target the last person to hit it, aka the person with the lowest delay / most haste. This means that in order for "tanks" to get anywhere near the top of the hate list they need to be rocking full DD gear spamming high damage WS's while being super buffed by a COR and double BRD rotation. At that point they've sacrificed so much that their no longer "tanks" and are just "gimp DDs". Try to imagine a PLD/WAR with a Rag in Phorcy's using resolution over and over again to keep "hate". At that point in time wouldn't it just be better to use a WAR or DRK instead? PLD's primary advantage is that it takes less damage then other melee's, but if it has to throw that away to obtain mediocre damage output, why even use them at all.

Matsui..... my current feelings regarding your leadership are below.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7772p6K0Z1qdq433.jpg

please take my first born son as payment as well.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Next, I’d like to provide a follow-up in regards to the separation of the recast timers.
With the separation of the recast timers it will be possible to utilize the two special job abilities together; however, since the effects were originally added with the idea that they could not be used at the same time, there are some effects currently that create bad balance. We will be adjusting this when we revamp the current effects.

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If it would create bad balance (that word is a hideous mockery now, a foul, warped abomination of human language; can we use something else, like "equilibrium" or "parity" instead) to use two special abilities at the same time; instead of nerfing abilities and making them less useful, just set it up so we can't use two at the same time. This could be done in one of two ways. If you have a SP icon, trying to use the other job ability would have no effect but not use the timer. (Like in the olden days when you had to have an avatar out in order to use Astral Flow, trying to trigger the JA without one would just not work.) The other option would be that when you use a SP ability, the other SP ability goes on a slight delay if it is ready or close to ready; note the use of the word "slight," perhaps varying on the duration of the special ability. (For example, if a Bard uses Soul Voice which has a 3-minute duration, he/she wouldn't be able to use the other SP ability for 5 minutes; for Benediction or Eagle Eye Shot a two minute delay for the other SP ability since they do not have durations. Or maybe a set 5 minute delay for all SP abilities.) This way you don't have to worry about players finding combinations of special abilities that will cause the world to burn down (because we will, believe me we would find a way) and every job gets a new ability that has a practical value. (Except for Warriors, Thieves, Blue Mages, and Scholars- their new abilities are kind of lul-worthy, but you can't win them all.)

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Of course it's doable. But what exactly is scherzo + EA doing for you? What ability does ADL use that does 800+ damage in a single hit? Even though he synchs his WSs perfectly when he splits, they're both checked seperately for whether or not scherzo will have an effect. Having dozens of ADL attempts under my belt, I have yet to see him do any attack besides Thundaga IV on a single target or Dynamic Assault which would actually cause scherzo to proc. If Thundaga IV is on a single target, you're in trouble anyways. Dynamic Assault he only uses at higher HPs, is a single-target attack, and is still survivable by most melees.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at. I'm not saying "it's impossible to win without PD." I'm saying "why are you using scherzo?" Scherzo is almost completely worthless vs. ADL. You may as well be using aubade to increase sleep resist.

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Fair enough.

We did have them up during our non-PD wins whether they did anything or not. Maybe it atleast saved our poor Taru WHM with 1k HP....lol

I think everything Mr. Matsui has said has made perfect sense so far. Past experiences with SE have made me a pessimistic beast, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He appears to have actually listened to most of the (rational) feedback on these forums in regards to this topic. I hope he does the same with other topics.

NNI and Legion clearly need more adjustment if they plan on having people do them without the use of PD / Embrava with any sort of regularity. As far as ADL, won't Sam's new SP ability negate almost all his attacks? or am I reading that wrong?

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Fair enough.

We did have them up during our non-PD wins whether they did anything or not. Maybe it atleast saved our poor Taru WHM with 1k HP....lol

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Yeah, Scherzo is for the mages.

One nice fix for ADL would be to lower the range of his AoEs which seems to be some outlandish number like 40+ yalms. My LS messed around with some non-PD strats for ADL and the biggest problem was that there was just no way to be taking part in the fight without taking huge damage and getting hit with enfeebs. If you could have a tank pull one ADL out of range so you only had to worry about 1 TP move at a time that would be tremendous. Increasing the delay on Teraslash and Dynamic Implosion to something much more stunnable would go a long ways as well. I think with those changes you could fight him and his clones indefinitely until you found the right one.

I'm happy with the direction this is going. PD and Embrava + Ragnarok is getting old. Apparently we just kill boss mobs for the most part now and well......I've played Chrono Trigger. I know what Boss Fights feel like when they are fun. This game, not so much some days.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Yeah, Scherzo is for the mages.

One nice fix for ADL would be to lower the range of his AoEs which seems to be some outlandish number like 40+ yalms. My LS messed around with some non-PD strats for ADL and the biggest problem was that there was just no way to be taking part in the fight without taking huge damage and getting hit with enfeebs. If you could have a tank pull one ADL out of range so you only had to worry about 1 TP move at a time that would be tremendous. Increasing the delay on Teraslash and Dynamic Implosion to something much more stunnable would go a long ways as well. I think with those changes you could fight him and his clones indefinitely until you found the right one.

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ADL was designed as an ultimate "cheap boss". It's Tanaka's shinying baby, the Neo-Shrinyu / Ozma of FFXI (amongst other esteemed company). In the past we CSS'd DL while we zerged him to prevent him from instantly killing everyone. In ADL's case he's forced to splint and you can only CSS one of this clones yet during that initial damage phase everyone us taking stupid damage amounts. As experienced ADL killers know, if you try to kill him too fast he'll just pop three clones so a pure CSS zerg isn't' possible. Your basically down to using PD (we use an outside SCH with their 2hr locked on the ??? for embrava) to absorb his stupid damage output while you kill him. No PD and your mages will just instantly die on the first oblivion smash / terra slash / dyna implosion / ect..

They'd have to nerf the range on ALL his abilities down to 15~19 yalms in order for him to be killed without a serious dose of luck. A strategy we've incorporated is having a BLU in another party spamming HB / SL / TS / WoR to slow him down. Stuns don't always stick, now do they stick for long, but it does slow him down and keep people alive longer.

Heh thought you guys would get a kick out of this.

Tanaka's Bible

and

Players Responce to Tanaka's Bible

Then finally

Tanaka's answer to the Players responce

A couple of days late bye... for years upon years I have been saying that the 2 hour wait is unneeded, and that it should be reduced to preferably 30 minutes, or at least, 45-60. I had to read the post quite a few times to believe in that it is actually, finally, being thought upon!

I guess anything and everything really is possible. ^^

Not that I believe my word(s) have been seen, but it is nice to see that there are at least some people within the developer ranks who think the same way. So even if it is early to say this, I say thank you, for it will certainly improve my gaming experience if I am still playing at the time. It's not really a big deal all in all, but sometimes it is the small things that matter the most!

Even if I were not to play at the time, I will still look from afar with great interest, how the world of Vana'diel evolves.


Likewise, deciding to separate the new abilities from each other (recast timers) I agree just as well, and I guess anyone could have seen the Embrava and Perfect Defense 'nerfs' coming. It will not affect me, I guess, since I've never even been cast Embrava upon, and only a few times have I been under the effect of Perfect Defense. Obviously I do not do NYzul Isle Investigation II nor Legion due to obvious reasons.

While I do not have any suggestions and thoughts to share really before I can do more testing, I just wanted to say: ありがとう, because I like the direction this is going (for now at least).

It will also be interesting to see if anything will finally be done about the 'locking of buffs' as well with the changes to content that heavily seem to depend upon Embrava and Perfect Defense, since that surely is not intended game-play...


Blubb!

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

As far as ADL, won't Sam's new SP ability negate almost all his attacks? or am I reading that wrong?

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Even if it does, that gets you one ADL, per ~5 DD's 2hours. Whereas PD can be given to the pt, so you can use the same DDs and cycle SMNs.

I don't think SAM is the answer to post PD ADL. <,<

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Originally Posted by saevel

They'd have to nerf the range on ALL his abilities down to 15~19 yalms in order for him to be killed without a serious dose of luck.

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That's pretty much what I was suggesting. They could leave implosion at around 30' but make it a long wind up. It's fine for there to be FU moves but there needs to be a way to overcome them that doesn't involve being invincible. Being able to tank/stun one ADL off to the side and just let it re-split into 2 if you pick the wrong one would still make for an interesting and fun fight that still required some amount of strategy and paying attention.

As for the BLU stuns, I think you are just asking to get a "no effect" on shock squall. You really should only need 1 shock squall per ADL. If you fire it at around 30% he should be dead before he's out of stun.

One thing that I liked about Matsui's post is that he actually grasps the concept of "game balance." Game balance (in terms of a PvE game like FFXI) is impossible when the game is a constant arms race between the players and newer, more strongerer and double-unkillable mobs. That's actually the exact opposite of game balance, where the game becomes a farce of its former self reduced to one dominant strategy at a time.

It certainly didn't help that in FFXI's earlier years, balance heavily relied upon players not knowing what certain statistics did. Turning "Attack" into damage is a needlessly convoluted process, as a prime example (versus, say, Magic Attack Bonus for spell damage, though Magic Resistance is pretty convoluted itself).

What game balance actually is, to get back to my original point, is ensuring that the game doesn't reduce to the ridiculous arms race mentioned above. Always "more power" a la Tim Taylor will eventually cause your game to collapse (also a la Tim Taylor). The players are actually the crux of this problem for the game designer: they will always pursue what's the most powerful option for them. You fix the TP return on Weapon Skills so Monks can't Asuran Fists back-to-back-to-back, and the players ruthlessly and relentlessly sing a years-long dirge on the "nerfing" of Dragoon's Penta Thrust WS. I feel that lately (over the past few years), the dev team has been too scared of player feedback to cut back on innate player power any more, barring obvious extreme situations, and has instead pursued balance between the jobs with buffs buffs and yet more buffs. In pursuit of making more challenging content, more and more obscenely powerful monsters are designed to compete with the players. And the players whine and complain for more buffs.

This continues ad infinitum in a vicious cycle until someone says "enough is enough." While what Matsui has said regarding PD and Embrava is all-in-all a rather modestly proposed cutback, it's an important step in the right direction. If Matsui is the man to say "enough," to rein the game back under control before players are ambushed by Hundred Fist TP-Draining Enfeeble-immune mobs in Adoulin, the game can only benefit in the long run as a result.

The concept behind EVERY FFXI BOSS

FFXI BOSS's

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

That's pretty much what I was suggesting. They could leave implosion at around 30' but make it a long wind up. It's fine for there to be FU moves but there needs to be a way to overcome them that doesn't involve being invincible. Being able to tank/stun one ADL off to the side and just let it re-split into 2 if you pick the wrong one would still make for an interesting and fun fight that still required some amount of strategy and paying attention.

As for the BLU stuns, I think you are just asking to get a "no effect" on shock squall. You really should only need 1 shock squall per ADL. If you fire it at around 30% he should be dead before he's out of stun.

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We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

Also we have incredibly bad luck with picking the wrong one. We now plan on killing both clones at a minimum, sometimes more. The most I've ever seen up is four clones, usually after a sudden implosion when we've tried to kill it to fast.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Hyperbole much ....

SMN has Shock Squall and as others have said, it's pretty amazing provided the SMN has their skill capped. SMN could stand to have those stupid timers lowered to 30s or less though. Also needs it's buffs duration set to 3~5min so that they could use them more frequently.

SCH is wow ... if you seriously so ignorant as to think SCH has "no use in end game" then there's nothing anyone can say to convince you otherwise.

Otherwise there are indeed jobs that are left out due to their near uselessness, none of those jobs were mentioned in this recent info and if anything having their "2hrs" on a 30min timer might make them a bit more useful.

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No, It wasn't. And you don't think so either because you actually go on to agree with me. Contradict yourself much? Or perhaps you should choose which sections you quote more carefully.

I already mentioned Shock Squall. Your point is redundant.

SCH uses . . . outside of Embrava and perhaps Alacrity stunning, what have you got? Go.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

SCH with it's Regen V + nearly infinite mp makes it a better healer than WHM in alot of places and also makes it take the spot as second healer. (not to mention SCH/BLM is an amazing stunner)

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I would agree with you if White Mages running out of MP was a serious problem or there was actually a need for second healers.

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Originally Posted by saevel

We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

Also we have incredibly bad luck with picking the wrong one. We now plan on killing both clones at a minimum, sometimes more. The most I've ever seen up is four clones, usually after a sudden implosion when we've tried to kill it to fast.

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Have your PD smn bring a vile elixir/+1. Your non-PDed smns should be able to recover from the first volley by the time the PD SMNs Shock Squall wears.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

This could be done in one of two ways. If you have a SP icon, trying to use the other job ability would have no effect but not use the timer. (Like in the olden days when you had to have an avatar out in order to use Astral Flow, trying to trigger the JA without one would just not work.) The other option would be that when you use a SP ability, the other SP ability goes on a slight delay if it is ready or close to ready; note the use of the word "slight," perhaps varying on the duration of the special ability. (For example, if a Bard uses Soul Voice which has a 3-minute duration, he/she wouldn't be able to use the other SP ability for 5 minutes; for Benediction or Eagle Eye Shot a two minute delay for the other SP ability since they do not have durations. Or maybe a set 5 minute delay for all SP abilities.)

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Another way would be to make them overwrite each other. That way you can always use them, but never have both effects up at the same time. And it won't bite you in the ass if you used it one second too early to get the "no effect" message.

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Originally Posted by saevel

We've run into problems with SMN's actually surviving to use SS. Our SMNs tend to be outside of the melee party where their vulnerable to all his stupid moves. The 15 foot range on pet commands further screws with us.

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Just pointing out that it's 20' (assuming you meant yalms), but still agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Another way would be to make them overwrite each other. That way you can always use them, but never have both effects up at the same time. And it won't bite you in the ass if you used it one second too early to get the "no effect" message.

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It also worries me that they seem to want to make the 2 abilities synergistic. I think to myself, "What kind of terrible ability would stack with perfect dodge?" and "What kind of pathetic excuse for an ability will they give jobs with good 2hrs like WAR?" I think it would be much better to make them mutually exclusive and for the most part unrelated to each other. There's also kind of no point to making them separate abilities if they are going to compliment each other. No one will ever use them separately.

I just thought of a new Sp ability for bst, since it's pretty unanimous that the pet absorbing one is undesirable to the player base. How about the SP ability calls a random jug pet at normal power levels according to the bsts' current lvl. This pet would only stay for 5 mins, otherwise the bst would have a free pet constantly. This would be a kind of 'oh crap' button for bst if they lose their pet in the middle of a fight, and call beast isn't up yet. this fits with the player base idea that without a pet, bst is helpless.

FANTASTIC NEWS.

Nobody can know how this will play out on the long run and if they will really be able to keep their promises, but so far it's looking good and looks like Matsui REALLY knows this game, what's going on, what's working and what's broken.

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Originally Posted by Sekhmet

I just thought of a new Sp ability for bst, since it's pretty unanimous that the pet absorbing one is undesirable to the player base. How about the SP ability calls a random jug pet at normal power levels according to the bsts' current lvl. This pet would only stay for 5 mins, otherwise the bst would have a free pet constantly. This would be a kind of 'oh crap' button for bst if they lose their pet in the middle of a fight, and call beast isn't up yet. this fits with the player base idea that without a pet, bst is helpless.

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It's not an idea that BST is helpless without a pet, it's a fact. Next time you get a chance, use Leave during an NM fight and tank with your chin. Also, I anticipate an ability like this consistently summoning the most useless pet possible in nearly every situation.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

It's not an idea that BST is helpless without a pet, it's a fact. Next time you get a chance, use Leave during an NM fight and tank with your chin. Also, I anticipate an ability like this consistently summoning the most useless pet possible in nearly every situation.

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Not to mention, if Charm was relevant BST wouldn't need an ability to summon a useless pet every 5 mins

Here's an idea, cut down bloodpact timers to 30seconds with the ability to cut down to 15seconds. Outside of abyssea this can't be all that bad, we'll be out of MP before anyone can really say its unbalanced. Or you can just give our avatars a power boost and defense boost so their not out in 3 seconds once they get hate and can actually be on the mob without people screaming like children that we're feeding it TP.

Also GIVE US OUR DAMN CAIT SITH YOU PROMISED US.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Have your PD smn bring a vile elixir/+1. Your non-PDed smns should be able to recover from the first volley by the time the PD SMNs Shock Squall wears.

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We do this too. Another strategy to use in tandem is to have a non-PD'd SMN run 30-40 yalms away on pop, and then after split rush in to Squall as the mob is being brought down to ~30%. Usually the PD'd SMN Squalls first because he/she was able to survive the AOE, and the non-PD'd SMN takes care of the second Squall.

We tried putting people out of range and on our 1st try one of the ADL clones went running off into the distance. It looked like they picked a random target after the split so we never tried that again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caketime

It's not an idea that BST is helpless without a pet, it's a fact. Next time you get a chance, use Leave during an NM fight and tank with your chin. Also, I anticipate an ability like this consistently summoning the most useless pet possible in nearly every situation.

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I appreciate your opinion, but I do not appreciate your tone. If my use of the word apparently offended you, I apologize. I simply believe that everyone should be aware that there are people who think differently, and their opinions should not be dismissed out of hand. If everyone who thought differently was dismissed, none of us would be using these wonderful computers, or talking on cell phones, or using electric lighting.

I was merely suggesting an alternative ability because the ones suggested by the developers were apparently underwelming to the player base. The ability I suggested is not supposed to replace call beast or the jug pets, It is meant as a temporary measure until the bst can use call beast again. It is more in the vein of a defensive ability then an offensive ability. Look on it like a bst version of the pup ability Deus Ex Automata. As for the pet having a high chance of being inappropriate to the danger at hand, how many bsts carry a full compliment of jugs for every situation? In my experience, the only pet I see being used on a regular basis is Falcorr. However, if the random aspect is too disappointing for you, make it so the last pet called with call beast is called by this ability. Also, Catatilla, This ability would have an hour recast, 30 mins with merits, So the pet would only be around for 5 mins out of 30, maximum.