NEO Nyzul 2.0

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Originally Posted by Monchat

why are you guys still arguing with him? the same guy claimed PLD tanking / skill chains/ magic burst (roffl) were the real way to kill stuffs in legion, and that PD embrava zerg are for gimps. www

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Sorry, Mochat. Just... part of me feels like I'm duty bound to try to provide education to the less fortunate. Damn me and my sense of charity!

On an unrelated note: Do you think we'll ever have a non-zerg FFXI? Because I don't see how.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Proving my point more. You can do it without sch. Read up. I stated that any event that needs 2x sch embrava is broken you assface. No point in even trying to talk to you. You're the ignorant one lol. I am simply explaining why breaking the event is a bad idea, while you are supporting it because you simply cannot get the gear.

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But it's still the most efficient way to do it and will have the highest chance of success. It's not impossible to do without 2 schs, but you'd be stupid not to exchange a sch for another job.

I bet no'one tried magic bursting with 1 base element skillchain lol. I said Pld's hold adds.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

1. I have a static. 2. No'one that I know of has tried it, and I'm sure people will try it mainly because 75% of siren doesn't even know neo nyzle exists. People just gave it a bad rep on day 1 because they couldn't reach 100... Why not try for like say a week and then trash on the setup lol?.......

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It's nice that you have a static. Kudos to you. People in my ls have discussed doing it but the thing holding us back atm is that we need people to level 2 schs (and likely more because we have more than 6 ppl in the ls) and then do the enhancing skillups and get the gear that brings it past 500. This takes time on a limited play schedule and not everyone just plugs in a script to do enhancing skillups, horribly inefficient I know (/sarcasm).

NNI got a poor rep not because ppl bad mouthed it on day 1 because floor 100 wasn't an insta-win; it's just a poorly designed event. There's no reason to go except for the gear. The original nyzul had motivations aside from the gear because of the weapon skills, some which were exceptionally good for certain jobs (drakesbane, atonement, king's justice). There were reasons to do the event aside from gear. It had replay value. It had progression. If NNI was a actually good source of alex it would have some utility for groups that didn't have an optimal setup and could actually be rewarded. People would try it just for the alex farming for the off-chance they might get lucky and get to a decent floor. Instead, SE basically made it that it's a big FU if you don't reach floor 80. They could have have put rings, earrings, waists, or back pieces with decent stats on lower floors but instead they just put crap armor sets there. The event has zero staying power and it's really lazy design. There's reasons to bad mouth NNI aside that from the fact that you need a very specific setup (2 schs is fking specific setup) and you need third party tools to nullify the luck factor.

This is just ranting about poor game design on SE's part now. They've made the same errors with neo-limbus...as there's no reason to do it aside from crap boss gear. At least with the old limbus, people could be rewarded with ABCs, ABC gear or +1 mats but now you need the coins just to do more neo-limbus runs for more crappy side-grade gear (and not even that, most is straight up inferior to existing gear). Limbus was one of the best 75 events because it had something for everybody. It wasn't a big FU event. Now it's just nonsense and seriously lazy shit. Would it really have taken that much work to add a few more ABC items (plus a KI item requirement just so ppl were trying the upper tier stuff)?

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

But it's still the most efficient way to do it and will have the highest chance of success. It's not impossible to do without 2 schs, but you'd be stupid not to exchange a sch for another job.

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Christ, thank you.

Don't "need" 500 enhancing. 400+ should be fine.

Other day got,
Kill All, Jump 3
Kill Sepecific, Jump 3
Kill All, Jump 2
Kill Leader, Jump 4 (the Pyscflayer that dispells all your buffs)
Kill All, Jump 3
Code Lamp, Jump 3 (WAY far away from the runic portal)

Not joking, 7~8 jumps of nothing but 2~4, mostly 3's and mostly "Kill All". 15m left and was on floor 45. Got some decent jumps then landed on floor 60 ... yeah. Kill boss, already knew the run was hosed and wanted to see how high we could go, got to 87 after four really nice jumps.

So yeah, "skill" has nearly zero to do with this event. It's 90% "luck" in that you get a good floor jump and don't get screwed on objectives (kill leader, no WS). Not joking, other day got the bomber rat and "no WS", kept running away and there was nothing we could do about it. The 90% luck can be somewhat mitigated with secret ninja techniques, the more you use the more luck you can mitigate. No secret ninja techniques means your basing your runs entirely on luck.

SE could of created a goblin standing outside Nyzule Isle. Talk to him and rolls a number, need a group of 6 players and it takes everyone's tag. 1~95 gets you nothing, 96~100 gets you a piece of Floor 100 gear. This would have the same result as the current system, except secret ninja techniques couldn't be used to change the numbers he rolled.

I'm not sure exactly how to mathematically address it, but considering you need to choose to advance ??? floors something like 18-20 times per run, floor jump distance actually plays a fairly minor role. By the time you reach floor 100, you have a sample size of about 18 jumps. Because your sample size is fairly high, your odds of seeing a number of floors/jump/run far from the average is fairly low.

For instance, your run ended on floor 87. Based on your own account and a little inference, it seems you jumped ~14-16 times and ended up on floor 87.
87/14 = 6.2 floors per jump
87/16 = 5.4
(9+2)/11 = 5.5 floors/jump average for an even distribution

So, despite your bad luck on the first few floors, you ended up seeing a number of floors that was near the expected average for your number of jumps. You need to clear the floors faster to increase your win rate.

Gee no way. We hit I think it was 83 on 16 floor jumps last night. Was kinda sad. Got 96 too, but once again, a shit floor and we probably could have seen the boss floor if there wasn't an enemy leader 2 minutes away in some random corner going through a maze. But you know what, our group doesn't care, because we can win.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

I'm not sure exactly how to mathematically address it, but considering you need to choose to advance ??? floors something like 18-20 times per run, floor jump distance actually plays a fairly minor role. By the time you reach floor 100, you have a sample size of about 18 jumps. Because your sample size is fairly high, your odds of seeing a number of floors/jump/run far from the average is fairly low.

For instance, your run ended on floor 87. Based on your own account and a little inference, it seems you jumped ~14-16 times and ended up on floor 87.
87/14 = 6.2 floors per jump
87/16 = 5.4
(9+2)/11 = 5.5 floors/jump average for an even distribution

So, despite your bad luck on the first few floors, you ended up seeing a number of floors that was near the expected average for your number of jumps. You need to clear the floors faster to increase your win rate.

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Too many "kill all" floors and other time wasters. What you've (and others) have been dodging is that Nyzule Isle is fairly large, you can't kill everything in 30s or less. Takes too damn long to run from one spot to another, thus the secret ninja techniques come into play. Especially when you take into account killing wyverns who dispell three buffs, including haste / body boost / berserk / ect. Or that NM we had to fight three times that zaps all your buffs including food (embrava being immune). They just exist to suck time out of your run, not to mention having to fight the floor 60 boss.

Assuming 5min total for killing boss / loby time and zoning up timing your looking at a total of 1500 seconds to clear floors, 18 jumps is 83.3 seconds per floor, 20 jumps is 75 seconds per floor. That's not going to happen unless you get very lucky. If you get to 100 in 15 jumps then your talking 100s per floor which is a bit more manageable for a good group.

So like I said, 90% luck. That 90% can be reduced / managed using secret ninja techniques.

Well, first off. Boss floors should never be a time waster for you. If they are, then you're fighting them wrong. Use Fanatic's against Floor 20/40/60/80 bosses and Fool's on floor 100. Your complaints generally make it sound like you need more damage. My group was WAR, THF (me), DRG, WAR, SCH, SCH. I probably should have been on WAR for more damage, but they liked me on THF for Collaborator when someone was dying and there wasn't a Scholar nearby. IMOP, it's not worth it for TH on the 99 boss especially as your group gets close to capping out.

That said, I wouldn't even venture in to NI on my PS2 with Order lamps as they are now. The odds of getting them are fairly low, but I'd still expect to see about one set per run on average and that's a little more rage than I need in my day-to-day playing.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Gee no way. We hit I think it was 83 on 16 floor jumps last night. Was kinda sad. Got 96 too, but once again, a shit floor and we probably could have seen the boss floor if there wasn't an enemy leader 2 minutes away in some random corner going through a maze. But you know what, our group doesn't care, because we can win.

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You should come work for my company. I've been trying to staff up on employees who are highly skilled and okay with getting paid randomly (however much I have laying around / whenever I feel like paying them). So far everyone thinks they should get paid on a regular schedule in a set amount :/

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You should come work for my company. I've been trying to staff up on employees who are highly skilled and okay with getting paid randomly (however much I have laying around / whenever I feel like paying them). So far everyone thinks they should get paid on a regular schedule in a set amount :/

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it's called working on commission you don't always get paid but when you do it's decent.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

it's called working on commission you don't always get paid but when you do it's decent.

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No, commission is when you get paid for meeting sales / performance goals. I'm looking for people who will always perform like rockstars, but be willing to accept that sometimes I get unlucky at the tables in vegas and don't want to pay them.

This is a game, not real life. Rules are different. Get used to them.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

This is a game, not real life. Rules are different. Get used to them.

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Yeah because no real life time is spent doing this event, 6 members x .5 hour runs x 5 tags (if you all have captain) + additional luck factors if attempting multiple runs for 2 hour resets on your scholars, not to mention gather and gear time given a perfect world this event is at least 15 man hours.

If the only person that was negatively affected was you then sure its just a game, but this like any event in 11 involves more then just you, no matter the MMO they are never "Just a game" otherwise we'd beat it and move on to the next game.

Good luck getting SE to change the event to make it so the noobs can get the best armor in the game with minimal effort. I'm done trying to sway yall to just man up and do what is necessary, because you all have been spoiled with easy events and believe this is entirely luck based, when infact it is not. If you're dedicated and skilled, you will win. Maybe complaining here about nyzle isle ill change how they make future content, but flat out, unless they balance all jobs to be equal value to each event, there will be no way that all jobs will be welcome to an event. Basically what I'm saying is, unless all jobs are balanced, certain jobs will always be favored for an event, and if they do make an event where all jobs are useful, then people will just use the more powerful jobs and it will make the even easier and broken for the people using those powerful jobs. Good luck, and screw off.

this is 100% wrong, it is very luck based try telling that to a run where we probably jumped i think it was 21 times and was still on floor 62 with alot of 2-4 jumps. We cleared the floors fast like allways but if you cant get those big jumps it does not matter how good of a group it is unless your cheating hardcore you will not win. Last run we did again was luck based we got to floor 95 then jumped to floor 100 killed it with 1 min to spare if it landed on any other floor unless it was a really quick floor like 1 enemy in the next room we would have lost. That is again more luck based on what type and how big of a floor it is. I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times and your lieing to yourself if you think this is not luck based. Sure its not hard and it requires alot of attempts you just need to keep trying till you get that lucky run you need.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Good luck getting SE to change the event to make it so the noobs can get the best armor in the game with minimal effort.

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That's what it is already, no ? Except the noobs are the ones claiming they are skilled when they have 100% cheats.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Too many "kill all" floors and other time wasters. What you've (and others) have been dodging is that Nyzule Isle is fairly large, you can't kill everything in 30s or less. Takes too damn long to run from one spot to another, thus the secret ninja techniques come into play. Especially when you take into account killing wyverns who dispell three buffs,

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I can melee wyverns to death before they get 100 tp on WAR full timing hasso. You need better gear if you're seriously worried about this.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Or that NM we had to fight three times that zaps all your buffs including food (embrava being immune).

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I assume you're talking about the soulflayer here. Again, same thing, I can easily kill it, solo, before it gets 100 TP. If you have good gear and are not terrible before entering the zone, it's kind of a joke. (mighty strikes > ukkos > ukkos > dead soulflayer NM, just dont run into more than the # of wars you have per run, which will never actually happen)

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Originally Posted by saevel

They just exist to suck time out of your run, not to mention having to fight the floor 60 boss.

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You should use fanatics drink on the random low lvl floor boss you get every other run.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Assuming 5min total for killing boss / loby time and zoning up timing your looking at a total of 1500 seconds to clear floors, 18 jumps is 83.3 seconds per floor, 20 jumps is 75 seconds per floor. That's not going to happen unless you get very lucky.

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It happens when you know what youre doing and have good gear.

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Originally Posted by saevel

If you get to 100 in 15 jumps then your talking 100s per floor which is a bit more manageable for a good group.

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I think we have very different ideas of what 'good' is, as I illustrated earlier with my points about the mobs youre so afraid of. I think you're probably just terrible, you and your friends probably need to focus on gearing yourselves/lvling better jobs for the event.

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Originally Posted by saevel

So like I said, 90% luck. That 90% can be reduced / managed using secret ninja techniques.

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Just because you said it, doesn't make it right.

Sorry I didnt post in awhile too, was busy playing Diabro thlee in my free time instead of browsing forums~

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Originally Posted by Aisu

this is 100% wrong, it is very luck based try telling that to a run where we probably jumped i think it was 21 times and was still on floor 62 with alot of 2-4 jumps. We cleared the floors fast like allways but if you cant get those big jumps it does not matter how good of a group it is unless your cheating hardcore you will not win. Last run we did again was luck based we got to floor 95 then jumped to floor 100 killed it with 1 min to spare if it landed on any other floor unless it was a really quick floor like 1 enemy in the next room we would have lost. That is again more luck based on what type and how big of a floor it is.

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It's only luck based if you're bad at the game. If you can clear X number of floors you will win Y% of the time. Y will never be 100% unless you can clear 50 floors. Your 1 bad experiance does not mean the event is poorly designed, it just means that was your bad run. I'm sure youve had some where you won in 13~ jumps, which counters the 25~ required jump floors.

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Originally Posted by Aisu

I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times

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If you've done 35 runs and won 6, thats a 17% win rate, which is really good, and right where you should be if your group averages 16-18 floors per run. Good job to you for that, but seriously, you're complaining unnecessarily. If you had been doing the event since it was released, you would be done by now. And seriously, I would be willing to bet anything your average floor jumps per run is in the 17~ range.

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Originally Posted by Aisu

I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times and your lieing to yourself if you think this is not luck based. Sure its not hard and it requires alot of attempts you just need to keep trying till you get that lucky run you need.

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It's not luck based. If you can clear X number of floors on average you will win Y% of the time. Sure sometimes you will get really bad floor jumps, but sometimes you will get really awesome floor jumps too, and that will make up for the bad jumps when you look at the average after a long time. How lucky you get on 4 of out of 5 sets of floor jumps doesnt matter, because for your group, that 5th run will be amazing and you will get to floor 100.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

That's what it is already, no ? Except the noobs are the ones claiming they are skilled when they have 100% cheats.

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Sounds like someones jealous. But dont worry gchan, if you just try, maybe in like 6 months you can get that thaumas set for your monk and not be a gimp.

I'm sorry you must not know what luck means sure you can do maths and work out averages like my group as you said is on average. But winning 2 100's is lucky in 3 runs then loseing 11 in a row is unlucky, you can work out averages but luck is the essence of how fortunate one is at a given time. Everything can be averaged out with a good sample size of data and i very well understand if i lose 1 run, chances of me winning are to go up if i keep at it. Jumping 22 floors and landing on floor 64, if that is not unlucky then i dont know what is and winning a floor 100 with more then 5 mins left is lucky. The event is not hard at all but if you can not get the average to large jumps then you will not win which was my point. you must not be able to read also i never said it was badly designed pls look again, i just quoted a bad run which was an unlucky run for my group. Please before replying again go look up what lucky and unlucky means.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Sounds like someones jealous. But dont worry gchan, if you just try, maybe in like 6 months you can get that thaumas set for your monk and not be a gimp.

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So if someone doesn't have a thaumas set they are gimp? Is this gear rare and special or just standard fare?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Sounds like someones jealous. But dont worry gchan, if you just try, maybe in like 6 months you can get that thaumas set for your monk and not be a gimp.

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It's ok Nyzlulz gear is only a sidegrade to abyssea (at least it's not a downgrade like legion/abyssea/lamebus/VW right ?), but I can understand why BG losers stress on Nyzul. Maybe it reminds them of when their forum actually meant shit ? When cheating was badass. Also salvage is coming out soon, we'll have a good laugh.

Also the devs need to say something about cheating. They have been acting like it doesn't exist so far yet the lamp dat numbers have supposedely been changed with the VU. Can you guyz stop being giant hypocrites already ?

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Originally Posted by Camiie

So if someone doesn't have a thaumas set they are gimp? Is this gear rare and special or just standard fare?

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Wish can't respond right now. he / she's busy over at change.org telling warren buffet to stop complaining about unfair taxes and be less poor.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Well, first off. Boss floors should never be a time waster for you. If they are, then you're fighting them wrong. Use Fanatic's against Floor 20/40/60/80 bosses and Fool's on floor 100. Your complaints generally make it sound like you need more damage. My group was WAR, THF (me), DRG, WAR, SCH, SCH. I probably should have been on WAR for more damage, but they liked me on THF for Collaborator when someone was dying and there wasn't a Scholar nearby. IMOP, it's not worth it for TH on the 99 boss especially as your group gets close to capping out.

That said, I wouldn't even venture in to NI on my PS2 with Order lamps as they are now. The odds of getting them are fairly low, but I'd still expect to see about one set per run on average and that's a little more rage than I need in my day-to-day playing.

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This is just the standard "suck less!!!" argument. Damage is not the issue, not even close. WAR (Ukko) WAR (Rag) DRK (Rag) DRG (non-Relic) SCH SCH. Everything dies instantly. The floors are simply too big, splitting up helps but when your "kill all" includes two to three NMs that's not always wise, at least keep in pairs. Without those secret ninja techniques you use your not going to get from start to the back corridors, while killing everything, in the prescribed time limit. 100% isn't even fast enough.

It's just random luck, the game has far more ways to screw you over then just giving you bad jumps. Enemy Leader can be particularly evil, that custard comes to mind, or the "no WS" while fighting the bomb rat that runs away. Lamps honestly aren't that hard, just have vent / TS / skype and their pretty easy. Of course their only that easy with certain special ninja techniques.

I'm not for making it "Easier", I'm for removing the pure random crab. Remove the random "screw you" restrictions that can happen on floors. Make those random boss floors (20/40/60/80) able to be skipped with a small time penalty. And like someone else said, make lobby time not count and a small 60s extension after you kill the predetermined boss. None of these make it "easier" you still need to deal with the same lamps, kill all, enemy leader, and random jumps, you just remove the random middle finger SE gives you.

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Originally Posted by Aisu

I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times and your lieing to yourself if you think this is not luck based. Sure its not hard and it requires alot of attempts you just need to keep trying till you get that lucky run you need.

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grats your group got ~40 top items in 30-40 1/2h run. that's better than any event in ffxi .

and no, it's not only luck. A group getting exact same jump/floor than you got but with "weaker" DD's would time out on runs you cleared. even if nyzul is 75%luck 25%skill it's till better than VW that is 95%luck 5%skill
only "issue" with NIUR is that using 3rd pt tool lower the luck factor.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

It's ok Nyzlulz gear is only a sidegrade to abyssea (at least it's not a downgrade like legion/abyssea/lamebus/VW right ?), but I can understand why BG losers stress on Nyzul. Maybe it reminds them of when their forum actually meant shit ? When cheating was badass. Also salvage is coming out soon, we'll have a good laugh.

Also the devs need to say something about cheating. They have been acting like it doesn't exist so far yet the lamp dat numbers have supposedely been changed with the VU. Can you guyz stop being giant hypocrites already ?

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lmao.

Delusional. haha

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Originally Posted by hiko

grats your group got ~40 top items in 30-40 1/2h run. that's better than any event in ffxi .

and no, it's not only luck. A group getting exact same jump/floor than you got but with "weaker" DD's would time out on runs you cleared. even if nyzul is 75%luck 25%skill it's till better than VW that is 95%luck 5%skill
only "issue" with NIUR is that using 3rd pt tool lower the luck factor.

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I never said it was 100% luck based and those weaker DD group could still win if they know what they are doing and had a lucky run. I dont win alot like i said im probably averaging about 1/5-6 runs, even if your the best group in the world you can't gaurentee a win getting 3-4 jumps alot because that is just pure unlucky. lucky and unlucky are just sayings to explain how fortunate one is, scientifically there is no such thing as luck since everything can be worked out mathimatically with probabilty and avergaes like wish said but people just dont seem to understand they are just sayings. Luck is what you make of it.

Getting one multiple job best-in slot piece of gear for every member of the group once a week is really good.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Getting one multiple job best-in slot piece of gear for every member of the group once a week is really good.

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Which should lead to the obvious conclusion: This gear won't be best in slot for very long and spending all this time on it because of lame ass luck factor is a waste of time.

I'll reiterate my previous prediction: When all is said and done, this gear will be about as good as the old nyzul gear was at 75. The hassle and luck crap that goes into getting it is too much.

The gear will only stay best in slot for a very short time and as such should only take a very short time to get.

Nyzul is not best in slot gear, it's situationnal gear.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Which should lead to the obvious conclusion: This gear won't be best in slot for very long and spending all this time on it because of lame ass luck factor is a waste of time.

I'll reiterate my previous prediction: When all is said and done, this gear will be about as good as the old nyzul gear was at 75. The hassle and luck crap that goes into getting it is too much.

The gear will only stay best in slot for a very short time and as such should only take a very short time to get.

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If you think of it lets say you average at 1 piece a week on a 30min a day event. That is 3 hours and 30 mins a week to get 7+ gear (including drops + the KI for 1 peice for each person) Thats 1 peice of very good gear every 30 mins and is alot quicker and better then aot of other peices of gear.

If thats also your attitude why bother with any gear cause chances are that most gear will be outdone by something. All gear takes effort to get also so why even bother playing this game if you think spending 30mins a day for currently the best gear for different situations then really what else you going to do in that time? I've seen people take alot longer for 1 peice of emp+2 gear.

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Originally Posted by Aisu

If you think of it lets say you average at 1 piece a week on a 30min a day event. That is 3 hours and 30 mins a week to get 7+ gear (including drops + the KI for 1 peice for each person) Thats 1 peice of very good gear every 30 mins and is alot quicker and better then aot of other peices of gear.

If thats also your attitude why bother with any gear cause chances are that most gear will be outdone by something. All gear takes effort to get also so why even bother playing this game if you think spending 30mins a day for currently the best gear for different situations then really what else you going to do in that time? I've seen people take alot longer for 1 peice of emp+2 gear.

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This would make sense if a significant number of (non cheating) players could get 1 piece every week, but the majority of players are not getting anywhere near that. The current event will take most players a long time to finish even 1 set. The sets will be overshadowed by other gear before most people finish getting it.

Any event where the rewards are outclassed before you even get them is a waste. That's why events die. It's also why it's dumb to make this event this hard (read luck based).

If the gear was OMFG good to the point where everyone knew that it wasn't going to be replaced in 6 weeks, then it might make sense to spend massive time getting it. But that is not the case at all. If you can cheat and get a full set of gear in a couple of weeks, then this event is worth doing. Otherwise, you are better off working on something that will last. Hence the distaste for the event.

Why spend hard earned money and time pulling a slot machine that dispenses coupons that expire before you can use them?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

This would make sense if a significant number of (non cheating) players could get 1 piece every week, but the majority of players are not getting anywhere near that. The current event will take most players a long time to finish even 1 set. The sets will be overshadowed by other gear before most people finish getting it.

Any event where the rewards are outclassed before you even get them is a waste. That's why events die. It's also why it's dumb to make this event this hard (read luck based).

If the gear was OMFG good to the point where everyone knew that it wasn't going to be replaced in 6 weeks, then it might make sense to spend massive time getting it. But that is not the case at all. If you can cheat and get a full set of gear in a couple of weeks, then this event is worth doing. Otherwise, you are better off working on something that will last. Hence the distaste for the event.

Why spend hard earned money and time pulling a slot machine that dispenses coupons that expire before you can use them?

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for starters its not about getting the full set, of course its nice to have but each piece of gear is good in its own way and i find it hard to beleive how you can easily outclass a phorcys Korazin for any STR based Weapon skill especially. 16STR 50atk and 7% WS dmg, I could see it if our level was to rise further like alot of gear we got from abyssea was outclassed everytime the level cap increase. We are lvl 99 its not getting higher so i find it very hard to beleive anything you say.

It is very well possible to do this without cheating you just have to know what your doing and be well geared to begin with then you just have to keep trying. SE put other gear for those that are not able to do that at other floor levels they did not want the 100 peices to be easy to obtain since it is such amazing situational gear. Like they said if they made it easier they would have to nerf the gear. Just because some people can't do this event they believe everyone who is succeeding is cheating.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

The thing is, if proper changes are made to it, Embrava will not make it any easier that it is now. You guys need to understand that no one here is suggesting it be easier. We are saying the difficulty should be in the skill employed by players, not in the luck used in behind-the-scenes scripting.

You also need to understand that, unless SCH 2hr is adjusted, or Embrava is adjusted, any change made will obviously affect a SCHx2 setup as well. However, it is more important to fix a broken event, than it is to keep it broken for the sake of making it easier for those players who always do a hack+mod+schx2 setup.

The only reason to not fix NI is so that e-peens don't go flaccid. An honest, impartial assessment of the event can loan you no other perspective than that the event is broken as is, and needs to be adjusted.

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I'm on your side of this incase you didn't know, all I was saying is in your idea of removing the necessity of 2 SCHs is not going to fix this event. It will fix a single problem and create another. Due to SEs creation of both Perfect Defense & Embrava along with their current mentality of luck being a great factor when determining if someone gets items, all events will in some way be broken.

Any event that is short, meaning it is a single fight or many very fast multiple fights, will be done with a SMN, Perfect Defense allows you to fight with mainly an army of DDs, with a few buffers and a SMN for each party, this is easy. Any NM not built to withstand this assault, or group of NMs, will not survive it, and will be labeld as to easy, however anything that requires Perfect Defense to win, will be labeled as to hard because it has to have a certain setup.

Any event that is long and time taking, meaning Nyzul mainly as there are currently no other real events like it in terms of time, will need a SCH. This is because if it is built without Embrava intended, kills will be much faster when a party uses it, and will have it to easy. However, the way it is currently, where Embrava is required for victory, is to hard, because you must have something specific to win.

Any event that requires neither SMN or SCH, is bound to have luck involved as a major point, it is SE's only way they have found to balance out the possible use of Embrava/PD to make things to easy. This is the reason behind the argument drop rates would be lowered for NNI if Embrava was no longer required.

No matter what, these 3 things apply to all events we have been given since abyssea. All of these 3 paths, Perfect Defense, Embrava, and Luck, are broken in their own way. Everything will either be to easy with these 2hours, or nearly impossible without them, and in the end create a broken and flawed system.

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However, it is more important to fix a broken event

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This is the difficult part, there is truly no way to fix this, without breaking it in a different way, to fix 1, is to break the other, and this is the real problem.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

This is the difficult part, there is truly no way to fix this, without breaking it in a different way, to fix 1, is to break the other, and this is the real problem.

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Agreed. I simply do not subscribe to the idea that "if it's broke no matter what, don't fix it" philosophy of Dev+Hax.

Considering not much isn't broken right now, I say to hell with it. They could fix RDM while they're at it, giving them AOE Haste/Refresh/SS/Blink/Bar, and AOE debuffs. Take Embrava down a notch (or two...) and allow any mob that cons as "Impossible to gauge" to be staggered.

Will that fix everything? No.
Will it un-stupify some of what they've done? Well, not like it can get any worse... <___<

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

They could fix RDM while they're at it, giving them AOE Haste/Refresh/SS/Blink/Bar, and AOE debuffs.

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This actually wouldn't do much at all, AoE buffs might but SCH/RDM gets that just the same other than Haste. Debuffs would be pointless as most events are currently 1 NM fights, (Neo-Limbus, Neo-Odin, VW) and the ones with alot of enemys are to fast paced for RDM to be acceptable.

Other than that I agree with you on the rest, fixing it would be great, I was only saying that fixing is still breaking which is why I kinda see peoples point on not doing it. Like I said before, its either make some people mad everyone can enjoy the game in good gear, or make alot more people mad by rejecting them because of BS reasons.

Staggering all NMs could be nice but myself I am tired of procing in general. Being said job to said event so said NM can drop said item at a higher rate or is terrored so it can be zerged while drops are slightly better. Just an excuse to get everything active basically so it seems like the half the job list that is unused can get some use again.

As for Embrava, while I think it is overpowered to all hell, I'm not sure how to nerf it without pissing off the entire playerbase that plays SCH. The spell gave SCH a real role to play rather than it being how RDM is but a lil better off, and many have went to the trouble of making Enhancing Magic sets for this reason, if it were nerfed you can only imagine the /rage from the people who spent hours/days going after that gear.

What I hope for is more "Dynamis-like" events (multi-party, multi-mob) so that AOE debuffs/buffs become useful, as well as a new dynamic strategy that really hasn't been used in FFXI. You could say beseiged was like this... but really the NPCs carried players, and the monsters were unrealistically strong, and that was a zone-borking event. I could talk at-end for this idea, but I'll save that for another time

Nevertheless, to hell with pissing off the community, lol! They gimped RNG way-back-when for being so overpowered a RNG party could kill anything, and that had people up in arms for months. Now, looking back, everyone had to admit that the nerf was necessary, but that didn't keep from pissing every RNG off....

Sometimes the cure isn't painless, but when the cancer of mediocrity and "one-job-onry" starts to spread, you gotta bring the chemo.

That's to say, let the gear still have its use, but not as potent a use. Let the job still have a use, but not to be a pocket Embrava. Let's not confuse the job with it's spell... RDM was necessary until other forms of killga came about. And with the lack of need for Refresh/Haste cycling, there was nothing left for the job. SCH is a borked job which offers nothing but chaos to FFXI, and without Embrava, what would it be but a slot-taker for RDM, WHM or BLM? Yeah, that's balanced... <_<

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

As for Embrava, while I think it is overpowered to all hell, I'm not sure how to nerf it without pissing off the entire playerbase that plays SCH. The spell gave SCH a real role to play rather than it being how RDM is but a lil better off, and many have went to the trouble of making Enhancing Magic sets for this reason, if it were nerfed you can only imagine the /rage from the people who spent hours/days going after that gear.

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1. This should be the only criteria in assessing whether an ability or spell should be adjusted. If the devs have purposely designed events to center around sch's 2 hour, it's pretty crappy design.

2. Maybe SE shouldn't have introduced an altogether redundant mage job then, aside from it's utility as a sub job (which was the stated purpose of sch and dnc when they were introduced).

3. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here or not.