I don't know, making mobs resistant to one form of damage or another has been the way the game has always gone, and I'm totally fine with that, I have jobs that can do piercing and slashing, and I am going to level mnk for blunt so I can go to an event with the type of damage required for that event, (but I'll probably end up on brd anyway), and that's cool, what I'm afraid of though is with all the pissing and moaning that's been going on about rng, and mnk being the only jobs blah blah blah, is that SE is going to break out the nerf bat, and beat those jobs down to the ground because when SE nerf's they damn near destroy a jobs usefulness. New hard content resistant to various forms of damage yes, nerf no, one is good the other is not
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05-28-2014, 08:03 PMpredatory
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05-28-2014, 08:13 PMMefuki
I think the issue is that SE is being far too broad with this suggestion of, "Oh, we'll just make more mobs resist blunt (hurting PUP) and breath damage (making Wyvern breaths, breath spells and WS like Spirits Within even more useless then they already are, instead of actually making them more useful.)"
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05-29-2014, 05:52 AMAfaniaLogically it didn't contradict itself though, I consider "broken"= existing gears can't fix it. When it comes to DRG and RUN I just use the more accurate description: "Weak without Mythic"Quote:
Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786
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05-29-2014, 11:56 AMDemonjustinAka, the job is broken but there is a single weapon in the game so overpowered that it levels the playing field or makes the job actually good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
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05-30-2014, 07:10 AMAfaniaQuote:
Originally Posted by Demonjustin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonjustin
Yes, because the OP weapon exist, fixing the job itself will make the job with the OP weapon way too OP. The ideal fix is to add more weapon that's close to the Mythic and lower the gap.
If you fix the job itself and make the job with Mythic way too OP, the game would be too easy for for those ppl with the job+ OP weapon. That is bad game design.
For example, making the DRG job stronger and Mythic DRG stronger than all other DD job = everyone and their mother that's serious about endgame gonna lv a DRG and make a Mythic for it.
So the future game content would be: super easy with elites with Mythic DRG, not that easy with other DDs. And you either lv DRG and build a Mythic to join the elite, clear wins in ultra efficiency and sell wins, or don't come DD because they'll just invite other Mythic DRG. That makes the gap between elite and none elite bigger, not smaller.
I'm not against fixing DRG and making none Mythic DRG more powerful, but I think it's bad game design to make Mythic DRG too OP. Just because Mythic DRG are the minority NOW, doesn't mean it's a good fix. It's a cheap way to fix the job from designer's POV.
Long time ago SE broke the game balance by handing out everyone OP empy weapons, and made empy a requirement to play the job. You either own one or don't play the job. Making Mythic DRG too OP is the same thing.
Making Mythic DRG more OP than every other job is bad fix. -
05-30-2014, 07:36 AMDemonjustin
I don't think it's a good idea or design either, but if the choices are between having that or having what we have now I opt for having the change made. I'd rather DRG be overpowered with their Mythic than have a DRG without a Mythic being so weak that it's not able to really be played in any form of endgame. I'd say the same of RDM but there's an extremely high amount of bias in that instance, but either way it's a comparable idea. I know how it feels to main a job of which no one wants or takes to events really, be it detrimental to myself or not in the end I'd much rather DRGs in the same position as I am right now to be buffed to the point they can play their jobs even if it means not only reducing my own chances, but making one job overpowered. Perhaps in the end it would even result in an overall look at how the jobs and their weapons are balanced in the first place and just how much work needs done still in order to make all jobs effective.
In the end I've no want for any job to tower above the rest be it MNK, DRG, or RDM, but I've also no want for jobs to be completely held back by the fact that a single weapon in the entire game exists that can at times put it on a level playing field or a step above the others, especially when it's so rare. -
05-30-2014, 03:09 PMAfaniaI don't agree with you then, because in current design, players can eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Demonjustin
1. Job change and don't play DRG.
2. Build a Mythic, honestly it's not THAT hard with alex/assault solo-able now.
And still complete the content.
However, once the dev make 1 mythic DD way too OP and broke the game content balance, there's no turning back. I just told you what'd happen....the gap between "elite" and "avg" gets bigger, when every elite start to build a mythic DRG and make it an event requirement just because the job makes the content so much easier. And all the avg player can't come DD unless they're a mythic DRG.
You should look at the long term effect instead of just simple "players should be able to play DRG, even if there's major balancing/design issue"
Of course the best solution is to buff current none mythic DD weapon and close the gap. -
05-30-2014, 05:31 PMDemonjustinIf you want to talk about disagreements then we've a massive one right here as well. While Mythics aren't hard at all they're massive time & gil sinks that no person should be forced to do in order to play their job. I could do a Mythic in a matter of months if I cared to, so could any other player in this game practically at this point, but how many are truly going to put that time into it? Even if it were overpowered and the best job in the game it's unlikely you'd ever be able to truly push the player base in the same direction it was in back when people did things like VW or Legion and RMEs were the only option. At that time Empyreans were the most common, followed my Relics, and then far down the line were Mythics. If parties regulated themselves to Mythic DRGs only you'd see linkshells do it perhaps, but shouts? No, not even conceivably possible to make that restriction otherwise you'd have seen it as the restriction for Bee Delve runs even though they often times had Upu as a requirement instead even though it no where near matched Mythic, not because it was close, but because Mythic was an unreasonable expectation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
I won't lie and say no one would try it, but it'd be foolish to think it'd ever work out that way unless literally a 10th of the server's good players actually made DRG Relics, which going back to the whole time issue is so unlikely it's not a real threat. Also in the end it'd be a temporary fix since SE's unlikely to ever let that happen anyways and would likely nerf the Mythic or it's WS not long after in a similar way to how they nerfed VS & Ukko's so long ago I'm sure. -
05-31-2014, 01:04 AMMitruya
It was bad enough being left out of Ceizak Delve because I didn't have Upu. Please don't make me have to have a mythic to play DRG. I don't have months/years/tons of gil to make this. I want to participate in content NOW, not next year when everyone's already done with it. I don't see how this weapon would make a difference to invites - typically any non-MNK or RNG DD is shunned now due to low HP/defense/ability to avoid being one-shotted.
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05-31-2014, 01:15 AMAfaniaQuote:
Originally Posted by Demonjustin
You completely missed my first option and instantly just pick and bashed the 2nd option. Further more you're acting as if every player on the server insist to play DRG and would never consider other DD jobs.
After years of playing FFXI, I've met 3 types of DRG player:
1. Loves DRG, can't afford a Mythic, they ended up playing other job like MNK to get shit done.
2. Loves DRG and built a Mythic for it.
3. Loves DRG, can't afford a Mythic, continue to use other weapons and full time this job.
99% of the players I know are either No.1 or No.2, I can name less than 5 DRG belong No.3.
Basically, the one who can't afford a Mythic and refuse to play other jobs are the minority.
As for the /shout thing, almost every /shout still /shout for relic RNG. So yes, if the gap is there then the /shout will /shout for it. Even if that become LS only thing, you'd just see elite group able to clear the hardest content in superb efficiency while /shout pt struggle. You either get into the superb group if you want to take the efficiency advantage or struggle with /shout.
If that happens, it affects 90% of the endgame players in this game.
To say it in a better way, whether none mythic DRG is gimp or not doesn't affect me or you, unless you insist to full time DRG without mythic for some reason. But it will affect me and you if you want to make an endgame pt that can clear content efficiently. Me and you would need to spend more time looking for a mythic DRG to do the content.
Back when Rag was OP in legion and legion was the hardest endgame event, finding 5 DD with Rag gave me the biggest headache. Since most other DD jobs such as empy WAR MNK didn't parse as high.
I'd rather just spend 1hr to make the pt and do the hardest event with any DD job and they all perform in highest efficiency, instead of spending 3 days to make a pt and make a Mythic DRG only DD pt for the hardest content.
If they don't buff DRG at all and leave it as it is, it only affects 1% of player who insist to play DRG and wouldn't get a Mythic.
If they make DRG too OP, it affects most of the endgame player playing any job because of the gap between elite OP DD mythic DRG and other DD.
Yes, it'd affect mage players like you because you either have to spend 5hr to make a DD pt full of elite Mythic DRG, or play with a pt with other DD and suffer from worse efficiency.
Of course the best solution is to buff none Mythic polearm, but if this isn't an option, majority's happiness> minority's happiness.