DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

I think You completely don't know how staggers work lol.

Stagger in abyssea are related to 13 elemental WS and not to element of them. Changing your WS damage type to fire won't let you trigger !! when it is Red Lotus Blade for example.

Stagger in VW works the same as the ones in Abyssea (triggering part, not effect of stagger ofc) but the pool of WSs that work is much larger.

Stagger in Dynamis is triggered by any WS in the game and every time you do WS it s a % chance for stagger.

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^

Atoreis is right on the money~

Well, if that's the case drk is damn near useless. I will keep with war and nin and leave drk in the closet. If I was wrong about the ele proc then yeah, the idea is worthless. But if it could be worked into something that could cause red procs, then I think it was worth mentioning.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

Well, if that's the case drk is damn near useless. I will keep with war and nin and leave drk in the closet. If I was wrong about the ele proc then yeah, the idea is worthless. But if it could be worked into something that could cause red procs, then I think it was worth mentioning.

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/NIN for DRK gives 2 Swords, 1 GreatSword, 1 Scythe, 1 Dagger and 1 Club Proc. Considering you have a WAR (Raiden Thrust), NIN or MNK take care of the rest, I'd say that isn't as useless you might think. GOTTA WORK IT FASTER, SON!

I look the fool. I'll go back to my corner now.

Don't forget the hat.

But, even then...it would still be pretty useful if it could be used for red proc'ing and fit the lore/description of the job. A little, y'know? A lot more convenient than spending forever skilling up multiple weapons and having to waste inventory slots, and even then who knows what the future content will be. Maybe ele weapon skills come back in a big way. Either way, yeah drk can do a lot of red procs now, and is it needed? No. But it would be useful if they could use it for the proc system, or maybe some future ele ws system. That's all. /grabs hat and walks off

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Originally Posted by Zoner

Would it be too much to ask for the boost to magic attack to be even greater then 20% since DRKs have no native Magic Attack Bonus Traits?

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Stop stealing what I'm going to say out of my head D:

I think this update just made me rethink my time management.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Don’t fret dark knights! These example adjustments are just that…examples. It doesn’t mean that every single thing is going to be implemented as stated. All of your suggestions and opinions on these concepts will be relayed to the development team and they will of course consider them when actually creating the adjustments to be implemented. Just keep in mind that their concept of dark knight, same as in the past, is that they sacrifice something in return for something else.

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I honestly doubt that you're even listening, let alone know what the hell you're doing. That goes for the developers, too.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Howdy! In regards to all of the feedback and questions we have been receiving, we got some additional information about the future dark knight from the development team.

Make it so we can deal large amounts of damage proportionate to the amount of risk taken.
Just as shown in the concept, we will be making adjustments so that you can temporarily deal larger amounts of damage compared to other jobs.

Include “attackers specialized in absorption” to the concept and make adjustments based on this.
Don’t think that we will not be considering things that were not mentioned in the concept.The core of adjustments will be what is outlined in the concepts, but we will be making adjustments to enhance and spruce them up.

We are aware of your requests for changes/additions revolving around absorption and we are looking into new ideas for it besides just Drain, Aspir, and the other existing absorb-type spells.

Get rid of the Souleater resistance on NMs.
This will really depend on balance adjustments between the stats of Souleater itself and a monster’s strength. For right now, from a balance perspective we believe it is difficult to get rid of the resistance.

Add an ability that adds to your attack when taking damage.
In the next version update we will be adding an ability that raises your attack power when taking damage. The effect can be used with both physical and magical damage.

Add a job trait that raises magic attack.
We are looking into implementing an ability that converts a large amount of MP into increased magic attack. When using this you will also receive a stronger Occult Acumen effect.

Increase our parry skill so that we can receive a larger benefit from Tactical Parry.
First as an overall adjustment, we will be revamping the difficulty of increasing parry skill. After this, the next step will be skill adjustments for each class.

Add Fast Cast specific for Dark Magic.
We will look into it. We will make it so dark knight is the most affluent with Stun, Drain, and other Dark Magic.

Revamp the MP cost and recast time on Dread Spikes.
We will be grouping this with the Dark Magic adjustments written above, so we are thinking to address this through Dark Magic Fast Cast.

Make it so it’s possible to absorb MP with Aspir from enemies that do not have MP.
It would be kind of strange to absorb something that does not exist, so if we were to adjust Aspir we would be looking into it from a different direction.

Increase the effect of absorb spells.
For absorb-type spells we will first be looking into removing the time decay of stats that were absorbed. After this, we plan on making adjustments to the effects.

Add Stun II.
When considering the current properties and potency of Stun, we are not thinking of adding another stun at this time.

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Oh, sure, all of this sounds all nice and pretty, but you're too damn slow. We should have had all of that ages ago, and you're just now thinking of it? A dark knight should be able to outpace any other melee job at any given moment, even if it costs an arm or two. Our dark magic should be cast more quickly and learned more quickly compared to any other job, which begs the question, "Why the fuck do red mages learn Bio III and dark knights don't?!" There are several things you're doing wrong, and Bio III is just one of them. Currently, warriors and monks outpace dark knights every damn time, and that's just pitiful. Black mages Stun better than we do, thanks to their job abilities and equipment. Our Absorb spells are stupid, Dread Spikes doesn't last long enough (even with bale armor), and quite frankly, I'm tired of it all.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Scarlet Delirium* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.

Absorb-Attri* (absorb attributes)　DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Additional magic that can be learned:

Blizzard III　DRK Lv92
Break　DRK Lv95

We tested it out…
Scarlet Delirium*
　→After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
　　(This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
　　Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Absorb-Attri* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Just in case, we confirmed with the lead dev. once more and he said that they are finalizing the adjustments, but as long as there are no major problems it will be implemented as stated. Yay!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
*Updated with in-development terminology at 7:18pm PDT

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Okay, this is a decent start, but it should have happened long ago rather than today. Personally, I'd like the job to be more edgy. Give us Eye for an Eye as a job trait, increasing our Attack even further the closer we are to death, and/or for every problematic status effect on us. Maybe then I'll renew my subscription, but until you start treating this job right, I'm leaving Vana'diel.

There is nothing wrong with Dread Spikes. It's effectively a 1000 damage stoneskin + 1000 Damage DoT for 78 MP that is on a 90 sec recast at 50% Haste. That's only 30 seconds of downtime if it isn't wearing off through damage. And if it is wearing off through damage, you just did ~1K damage for 78 MP whilst defending yourself.

The only negative thing about it is that it doesn't block TP moves and is resisted by some mobs.

If you made it any better than it already is then it would be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

But, even then...it would still be pretty useful if it could be used for red proc'ing and fit the lore/description of the job. A little, y'know? A lot more convenient than spending forever skilling up multiple weapons and having to waste inventory slots, and even then who knows what the future content will be. Maybe ele weapon skills come back in a big way. Either way, yeah drk can do a lot of red procs now, and is it needed? No. But it would be useful if they could use it for the proc system, or maybe some future ele ws system. That's all. /grabs hat and walks off

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I agree DRK doesn't have much variety as much as WAR does for procing, but usually the way I go about it is I usually take care of sword, great sword, scythe, dagger (if /nin), or club if someone in my group is using something else that I'm not able to cover. Usually I fly through procs pretty quickly. So I find it nice to be able to help WARs and NINs with some of the weapons that matter.

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Originally Posted by Soidisant

There is nothing wrong with Dread Spikes. It's effectively a 1000 damage stoneskin + 1000 Damage DoT for 78 MP that is on a 90 sec recast at 50% Haste. That's only 30 seconds of downtime if it isn't wearing off through damage. And if it is wearing off through damage, you just did ~1K damage for 78 MP whilst defending yourself.

The only negative thing about it is that it doesn't block TP moves and is resisted by some mobs.

If you made it any better than it already is then it would be ridiculous.

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Needs to cast faster.


Occultation anyone.

How about lowering the cost of Dread Spikes too?

78 MP is a bit much. 40~50 would be plenty?

The one minute duration sucks too, make it five minutes like stone-skin then one half of that argument might be plausible.

@ Camate

How will Bale Flanchard +2 "Enhances Nether Void" affect Absorb-Attri?


And is absorb-attri more accurate than most forms of buff absorption?

What is the recast on it?

Hey, at some point after the cap increase, why not have a Scythe WS that functions like Sanguine Blade, DRK has a bit of a vampiric nature, and I seem to stay at about 30% HP. Sanguine Scythe, maybe?

I was also in a Dom OPs on Bluffalo and after being Plagued and Paralyzed I started thinking.. What if DRK had a Job Ability that put a debuff on the enemy? Or maybe a Contagion Transfer-type trait that made Dread Spikes and Endark occasionally pass a harmful status effect on to the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Hey, at some point after the cap increase, why not have a Scythe WS that functions like Sanguine Blade, DRK has a bit of a vampiric nature, and I seem to stay at about 30% HP. Sanguine Scythe, maybe?

I was also in a Dom OPs on Bluffalo and after being Plagued and Paralyzed I started thinking.. What if DRK had a Job Ability that put a debuff on the enemy? Or maybe a Contagion Transfer-type trait that made Dread Spikes and Endark occasionally pass a harmful status effect on to the enemy.

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Catastrophe wants to have a word with you

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Catastrophe wants to have a word with you

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You mean the WS that costs like 200-400mil or else you can only use it ever 13 WSs? That one, right?

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Originally Posted by Kojo

You mean the WS that costs like 200-400mil or else you can only use it ever 13 WSs? That one, right?

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....you serious?

He has a point.

They gave sword one.

Perhaps they could give Great Sword one too.




I'm 50% through stage 5 to Apocalypse and I agree its kind of silly that the "Absorb" class can only do this through a relic WS.

The relic WS is very efficient and attatched to a very nice weapon.


Make a Greatsword or Scythe WS with 40-50% return at 100% like the Sword WS.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

He has a point.

They gave sword one.

Perhaps they could give Great Sword one too.




I'm 50% through stage 5 to Apocalypse and I agree its kind of silly that the "Absorb" class can only do this through a relic WS.

The relic WS is very efficient and attatched to a very nice weapon.


Make a Greatsword or Scythe WS with 40-50% return at 100% like the Sword WS.

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I suppose it takes a DRK to see my point, eh? :D

Too bad all your gonna get replies from are Korpg and Leonlionheart.

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Originally Posted by StingRay104

Too bad all your gonna get replies from are Korpg and Leonlionheart.

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Leon made a good point; there IS a Scythe WS with a drain effect. But it's a Relic WS, unless you get an Apoc, you can only use it every 13 WSs on a scythe that really isn't that great, you can get much better, like an Absolution +2 (Fire #1), a Redemption, or even a Twilight Scythe. If you don't already have an Apoc, it's probably not worth it ATM, which is sad. You can get a Redemption easier and faster than Apoc. But I'm not trying to talk Scythes here, especially when I use a lolPlaga till I finish Absolution +2 or get a Twilight. I've just noticed that if you play DRK like I do (using my JAs) you end up in the red fast and usually have anyone with cures and waltzes cure-bombing you while your Drains are down. Then there are the WHMs that just don't cure you, for some reason. I'm not saying it should be a WS to spam, but it would be a nice help to the WHMs.

As for Korpg, I don't pay any attention to anything he says.

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Then there are the WHMs that just don't cure you, for some reason. I'm not saying it should be a WS to spam, but it would be a nice help to the WHMs.

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I keep seeing phrases like this pop up in any topic related to Dark Knight.

While, sadly, it is a situation that occurs, I don't think "Sometimes a healer has the mental capacity of watery, under-seasoned mashed potatoes." is something to take into account when adjusting any job. It shouldn't be the responsibility of anyone but the incompetent individual(s) to make up for a shortage of competence among a healing entourage, and below-average-at-best players shouldn't be taken into account when designing elements of FFXI. Especially when those players aren't even on the job in question.

Draining HP is how Dark Knight survives while solo and drains match the aesthetics of the job, so I suppose it's all the same in the end. This still bugs me, though. I guess seeing "I want something changed because this idiot is an idiot and does idiotic things in idiotic ways at idiotic times in idiotic places while folks hitting things with things die to a Very Tough lizard's auto-attacks." for the fortieth time just made me snap.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I keep seeing phrases like this pop up in any topic related to Dark Knight.

While, sadly, it is a situation that occurs, I don't think "Sometimes a healer has the mental capacity of watery, under-seasoned mashed potatoes." is something to take into account when adjusting any job. It shouldn't be the responsibility of anyone but the incompetent individual(s) to make up for a shortage of competence among a healing entourage, and below-average-at-best players shouldn't be taken into account when designing elements of FFXI. Especially when those players aren't even on the job in question.

Draining HP is how Dark Knight survives while solo and drains match the aesthetics of the job, so I suppose it's all the same in the end. This still bugs me, though. I guess seeing "I want something changed because this idiot is an idiot and does idiotic things in idiotic ways at idiotic times in idiotic places while folks hitting things with things die to a Very Tough lizard's auto-attacks." for the fortieth time just made me snap.

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It's not the only reason I think we should have a natural Draining WS, in such cases, the WHM in question should probably be talked to. Usually, I give a hint "I think we need healers."

Wow my statement was taken completely outta context, and with little regard to do with the statement. Let me clarify Korpg = Smn, War, Blm. How do I know this, cuz I know him. Leonlionheart well just look at his sig and you can understand him. As for anything DRK related if you wanna discuss DRK related issues this thread, and for that matter any thread in the general discussion section is constantly frequented by people who know very little about what the topic is and just enjoy commenting on threads in an attempt to make themselves feel greater than they actually are, and thus they should be completely ignored on all issues.

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Originally Posted by Kojo

It's not the only reason I think we should have a natural Draining WS, in such cases, the WHM in question should probably be talked to. Usually, I give a hint "I think we need healers."

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Yeah, it wasn't really a comment on your post specifically or anything. Sorry if I gave you that idea.

I just really dislike the effect that someone who can't figure out how to cast a Cure spell can have on other another person's good time.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

I think this update just made me rethink my time management.

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most productive post in this thread?

hey it's possible.

herp derp i have one job now

instead of 11

also, on my way to Caladbolg

I got accepted to the test server today, so naturally as a DRK main I wanted to see this new ability SE gave us, so here's some info on it

Dark Knight

Scarlet Delirium (Lv. 95)
*Channels damage taken into enhanced attack and magic attack.
*Recast 3 minutes
*Duration 1 minute


Notice the duration in bold, ya 1 min....three words I got for this:
So.Much.FAIL.

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Originally Posted by Zoner

I got accepted to the test server today, so naturally as a DRK main I wanted to see this new ability SE gave us, so here's some info on it

Dark Knight
Scarlet Delirium (Lv. 95)
*Channels damage taken into enhanced attack and magic attack.
*Recast 3 minutes
*Duration 1 minute


Notice the duration in bold, ya 1 min....three words I got for this:
So.Much.FAIL.

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LOL Yeah well go figure. Dark knights for the most part come to expect this let down behavior from SE updates.

Seems fair to me really. It was never going to be something that we were able to fulltime and it's still a ~6.7% damage increase.

Under the same buffs outside Abyssea I get that as pegging Apocalypse about 10-15% behind an Ukon which seems reasonable to me. We trade off a bit of damage for access to our spells. It wouldn't really be fair if we out DD'ed WAR and then got spells on top.

any damage increase now depends on us managing to take damage during that 1 minute window, rather than having a decent amount of time to spread that across

against a lot of NMs itll be easy, against others itll be near useless, and in XP/merit itll be useless, dynamis itll be useless

unless you start forcing yourself to take damage, which makes sense, but ull have to do that every three minutes for a measly 1 minute of uptime

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Originally Posted by Soidisant

Seems fair to me really. It was never going to be something that we were able to fulltime and it's still a ~6.7% damage increase.

Under the same buffs outside Abyssea I get that as pegging Apocalypse about 10-15% behind an Ukon which seems reasonable to me. We trade off a bit of damage for access to our spells. It wouldn't really be fair if we out DD'ed WAR and then got spells on top.

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A warrior was suppose to be a jack of all trades and master of none. A dark knight was to specialize in power and zerg over other DDs but at a cost with their defense and other abilities. That is why when most of us go "all out" if we get hit by anything it kills us faster than another DD type.

You gotta take in account that part of the 1min will be needed for accumulating damage, so lets say 30secs to lose 50% of ur HP, that leaves 30secs of dealing increased damage. I don't know about yall but i don't lose half of my HP in 30secs...

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Originally Posted by Zoner

You gotta take in account that part of the 1min will be needed for accumulating damage, so lets say 30secs to lose 50% of ur HP, that leaves 30secs of dealing increased damage. I don't know about yall but i don't lose half of my HP in 30secs...

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To be fair. I usually do if i'm full timing hasso and going balls out.

Yeah I generally facetank a lot nowadays but in fairness, I have the luxury of Catastrophe drain. I actually thought it might be prechargeable or something but if not then yeah that reduces its effectiveness significantly as like you say it isn't a full minute of increased damage.

It being hard to proc against trash jobs isn't really a concern for me because they die so fast it won't matter except for e-peen parses. Against anything worthwhile, it should be easy to activate.

And @Chriscoffey, DRK has far more survivability than WAR.

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Originally Posted by Soidisant

Yeah I generally facetank a lot nowadays but in fairness, I have the luxury of Catastrophe drain. I actually thought it might be prechargeable or something but if not then yeah that reduces its effectiveness significantly as like you say it isn't a full minute of increased damage.

It being hard to proc against trash jobs isn't really a concern for me because they die so fast it won't matter except for e-peen parses. Against anything worthwhile, it should be easy to activate.

And @Chriscoffey, DRK has far more survivability than WAR.

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They have drains/catastrophe HP drain and dread spikes + stun however.. i typically do things with a mage and that alone makes either job survive. For most darks without apocalypse they are going to be waiting on timers and be dead before it even matters. Warriors could potentially throw up defender to at least negate partial damage where dark is already at a loss. The bottom line is just because dark can survive a few more hits has no bearing on the fact they sacrifice their defense and other DD abilities to do way more damage. A mage can will have less trouble curing a warrior than a regular dark when they have their tools in use. I will longer on my warrior than i do on my dark knight taking into account having a mage. I don't really care about doing any mob solo myself for bragging rights. I want efficiency and to kill the best I can. With that being said my warrior with annihilate my dark by at least 2-3x damage.

The point is that you said this which is blatantly untrue.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

That is why when most of us go "all out" if we get hit by anything it kills us faster than another DD type.

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Anything that kills a DRK in that situation kills a WAR too. The difference being that a DRK can potentially prevent it happening whereas all a WAR can do is throw up Defender which probably isn't going to save it.

EDIT: Also an example of this happened today in Ein. Both the Ukon WAR and Masamune SAM died whilst I did not and it wasn't due to it being on them rather than me as we were taking our own mobs. It was because I was able to stun the moves that could have killed me whereas they could not and got doomed/one-shotted.

only thing a war can do is abuse retaliation spam and self sc over and over and kill the mob before it kills you. Drk has far more defensive capability than war does. But for most things those really aren't needed and a war just spamming a better ws (for damage) is better.