So what ever happened with those new 1 Hours?
New 1 hours
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10-18-2013, 10:46 AMTileNew 1 hours
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10-18-2013, 11:09 PMFynlar
As I said in another similar recent thread here, they are chillin with Cait Sith and Atomos
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10-19-2013, 08:31 AMFaeQueenCoryPoo. I was gonna say that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
lol
Yeah, don't expect anything from them until this whole Adoulin storm settles and RUN and GEO have their AF, Relic, EMpy sets... Everyone else's AF, Relic, Empy sets are boosted to RUN and GEO's level... REMs get their validation back.... The final two Nakuaals are added to their WKRs... the 4 other Delve fractures are added.... AND the Adoulin Mission storyline is completed.
After all that.... (and the bug fixing that comes with it all... we're still working the kinks out of iLvs afterall) THEN we'll have those merit 2hrs, Cait Sith and Atomos. -
10-22-2013, 10:12 PMDarwenaYou are too positive about that. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory
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10-22-2013, 10:36 PMFaeQueenCoryHey... I never said how LONG after all that happens.... lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Darwena
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10-31-2013, 06:37 AMCamate
Hello,
The November version update is right around the corner and at last the new special abilities will be implemented. Below is message from Akihiko Matsui giving an overview of each special ability. Please note that the names and descriptions of these abilities may change before release.
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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui
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10-31-2013, 07:08 AMJerbobI hope you are prepared for how catastrophically unhappy this is going to make a lot of people. Not only red mages are going to be angered by this, but the rest of the XI community will be disgusted at how developers have ignored us YET AGAIN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Demon's post above will represent the feelings of a lot of people. This is not acceptable.
(edit) Or, rather, would have represented, were it still there... -
10-31-2013, 07:36 AMZephrose
Being so dramatic isn't going to make them listen any harder. Kind of like crying as hard as you can to your parents and all they are doing is laughing how funny your face is when it's bright red. Get over it, it's not the first time they've added something completely useless.
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10-31-2013, 07:49 AMJerbobIt certainly isn't, no, but we shouldn't just accept awful things because they constantly ignore us. This is a prime example of the community making significant objections to something and then SE just going ahead with it anyway with a "we know best" attitude. People have a right to be annoyed by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephrose
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10-31-2013, 08:02 AMBabekeke
At least they gave a reason for RDM, regardless of how bad that reason was. Being able to dispel Kurma's def boost once per run is terribad. But at least they think it is acceptable and they're sticking to it.
THF however, they blatantly ignored, despite the fact that it was sold during the VW/Legion days by telling us how we can steal a mob's SP abilities.
Adoulin was then released where not a single mob can use a SP ability. If this doesn't steal auras, it's even worse than RDMs.
My reasoning: RDM can sub whm or sch and use new SP abil in lieu of ES. THF can just use aura steal anyway. -
10-31-2013, 08:08 AMZephroseThat's using your noodle! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Babekeke
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10-31-2013, 08:15 AMJerbob
That's not really the point though. The community made their feelings about the RDM SP quite abundantly clear, and it is objectively terrible as an SP, but SE went ahead with it regardless with no more justification than "we think it's kinda rad so let's go with it". I think that is reason enough to be disgusted, relative value of the ability itself notwithstanding. Maybe there are others that are worse, as Babekeke has pointed out, and that's definitely something else to be angry about - but a slightly less runny turd is still a turd.
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10-31-2013, 08:20 AMDemon6324236
Ok, let me explain why this is pointless then. I will first go 1 by 1 through all Enfeebling Magic.
Addle - Useful, but not all to powerful against anything meaningful, hardly anything resists, not useful enough for a 1 hour recast timer.
Bind - Breaks after 1 hit.
Blind - Everything has to much Accuracy for this to ever make a difference, and any mob with a gimmick like Tute where this helps, its super easy to land.
Break - Breaks after 1 hit.
Dia - Cant be resisted anyways.
Dispel - Hardly anything resists.
Gravity - Hardly useful when we never run from enemies anymore, and the -EVA is hardly useful when we have so much Accuracy+ and EVA-.
Paralyze - Doesn't work on anything truly deadly.
Poison - The damage this does is pathetic, and its hardly resisted.
Sleep - Breaks after 1 hit.
Silence - Spells can be stunned easily, and most things that can be silenced, are easy to silence, the only hard thing to Silence right now is Tute and Muyingwa.
Slow - Doesn't work on any of the TP spamming mobs, even if it did, this doesn't effect WSs, which like Paralyze, is the main downfall.
That's mostly a complaint of why Enfeebling sucks for the most part, but really, none of it is hard to land, that's the issue, not only is it hardly useful, its easy to land! -
10-31-2013, 08:20 AMDemon6324236Except for any important enfeeble we already do not need Elemental Seal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephrose
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10-31-2013, 08:25 AMKincard
It took them a year to make 2 minor adjustments to 2/20 skills, and make 2 new skills to the 2 new jobs (Because I'm sure Adoulin was so rushed that they were not considered in the development cycle even a few months before the announcement of its release), and give the exact same explanation to why one of them is total garbage?
Is it really that hard to code XI, or were they just sitting on these/forgot about them until they needed it to make an update look bigger?
I just love how they were acting like they were holding off on releasing them because they needed to put oh-so-much work on them and this is the result after a year. Must be nice having tenure at SE. -
10-31-2013, 08:32 AMDemon6324236
Part 2, breaking this down.
Issue 1~!Quote:
We've received feedback that the effect is too small for this to be a special ability, but the development team feels that it has a lot of potential, and will be implementing it with the current specifications.
Regardless if they are boss-grade monster or not, the monsters introduced after Adoulin have been created to not have complete resistances as much as possible except those that have cumulative resistance to petrify and terror. Depending on the monster, they may have high resistances and despite using Elemental Seal spells may be resisted at a high rate; however, by using Stymie it will be possible to enfeeble these kinds of monsters, this can lend itself to opening up different strategies depending on how it is used.
However, we feel it's problematic that "Slow" is ineffective against monsters such as Matamata and Harpeia whose regular attacks are treated as special abilities, so we will be making adjustments to the system and make it so that "Slow" becomes effective.
Ignoring what we said. Tons of feedback saying the ability is bad and needs changed, but rather than listen to us, the players, the dev teams thinks its better to just give us something we don't need. The original ability had a load more potential than this ever could, yet they threw it out at the first sign of trouble. That is what pisses me off more than anything. They had a good ability laid out, enhancing our Enhancing Magic spells for a time, had they upped the duration to 3 minutes like Tabula Rasa is, then made the enhancement +50% potency, the ability would have been fantastic, yet not overpowered, it would have been a Soul Voice for RDM but less potent and most spells are only self targeting anyways. Rather than doing this, they got rid of it, yet they are so hell bent on holding on to this failure of an ability.Quote:
We've received feedback that the effect is too small for this to be a special ability, but the development team feels that it has a lot of potential, and will be implementing it with the current specifications.
Issue 2~!
The issue is that no 1 enfeebling spell is so effective, so crippling, that by using this it changes the battle in any real way. I can silence a NM, Silence, the most powerful enfeeble we have, the ability to remove an entire category of attacks from an enemy, yet I hardly have a time when this is hard to land as it is, and even if I had a hard time with it, we can stun them anyways. No other enfeebling is as powerful as Silence or has had as many monsters immune to it, and even it isn't truly worth this. Nothing is worth this kind of recast to ensure a land. Nothing is powerful enough so far as enfeebles go that we should need this. I can understand the idea behind 'Muyingwa is near impossible to land Gravity on, and using this with Gravity would allow an additional Evasion reduction, helpful to the battle' but its not really a widespread applicable ability, its not useful even in that case anymore. If we got new enfeebles like Amnesia, maybe this would be good, but otherwise... no...Quote:
Regardless if they are boss-grade monster or not, the monsters introduced after Adoulin have been created to not have complete resistances as much as possible except those that have cumulative resistance to petrify and terror. Depending on the monster, they may have high resistances and despite using Elemental Seal spells may be resisted at a high rate; however, by using Stymie it will be possible to enfeeble these kinds of monsters, this can lend itself to opening up different strategies depending on how it is used.
Issue 3~!
They haven't even finished making Enfeebling useful against all targets because they made mobs with gimmicks to make them harder, which they never fully incorporated in the game properly.Quote:
However, we feel it's problematic that "Slow" is ineffective against monsters such as Matamata and Harpeia whose regular attacks are treated as special abilities, so we will be making adjustments to the system and make it so that "Slow" becomes effective.
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10-31-2013, 08:35 AMDemon6324236
The last reason, the entire thread last time this was brought up was filled with complaints about this ability, THF's ability, and BST's ability. Yet through all of the complaints they failed to learn this ability was a bad idea and that the other had potential, instead, they ignored it and want to continue onward with this.
I explained that RDM has many issues, it has had many over the last few years, and its only getting worse as time goes on, this is another failure for RDM, and if its put in, it just shows that yet again they fail to show the job the care it needs, and give it the updates it needs to become worthwhile again. -
10-31-2013, 08:49 AMEdyth
I have two non-whiney questions about the implementation of these abilities:
1. Can a player have both of his special abilities active at once if it's a self-buff, such as Mighty Strikes + Brazen Rush, Inner Strength + Hundred Fists, or Inner Focus + Manafont? I understand that some of the combinations could be overpowered, but some of them, like the black mage example, wouldn't be overpowered and would substantially increase the usefulness of the new SP abilities.
2. Will monipulators have access to the new special abilities?
And now for my thoughts on Stymie: it seems like the developers have a secret regarding this SP ability that players just aren't seeing. Granted, Silence seems like the only use, but those of you dismissing every spell as stunnable need to step outside of Valkurm Dunes once in a while, because any monster that's any monster has quick magic nowadays anyway. In addition, it's naive to dismiss spells as "all stunnable" on monsters whose TP moves are deadly beyond all reason. Often, stunning a spell means that the NM is going to wipe a bunch of people with the TP move he uses LITERALLY right after stun wears off. -
10-31-2013, 08:54 AMSNK
eh I'm done with RDM even tho it was my 1st 75. You just need to realize SE isn't going to fix it the way you want no matter how much you puff your chests about it.
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10-31-2013, 09:11 AMCalatilla
So THF now has 2 useless SP`s, sweet.
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10-31-2013, 09:18 AMPhafiwasn't this one able to steal an enemy's 2hour? or did that idea get chuckedQuote:
Originally Posted by Calatilla
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10-31-2013, 09:23 AMCalatillaCurrent endgame bosses don't use 2hrs, so unless it can steal Aura's it's useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phafi
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10-31-2013, 09:27 AMZhronne
I'm so gonna miss the old BRD additional 1hr compared to this one :'(
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10-31-2013, 09:59 AMAnnaliseI am guessing based on my use of the RDM Bee Monipulator that you will be unable to use both at once. Frenzy Pollen gives the SP icon and hundred fists, which makes Mighty Strikes have no effect while active. The reverse is also true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edyth
If the new abilities count as special abilities just like the original 1 hours, they will be unable to stack. If they change how special abilities work, then they may be able to stack. I'm guessing that will be unlikely, but we shall see. -
10-31-2013, 10:03 AMMarkovChain
The new RDM SP2 sucks, everyone has been telling them so for over 1 year. I bet you can't even land a single stun with it because it's not enfeebling. For 99.99% of the content the RDM SP2 is an elemental seal that sucks because you will use it 6x less than ES for one, and it only works for enfeebling.
I'd like to point out that nobody, including the magic accuracy specialists like myself, understood the difference between this and ES. The dev team is unable to provide an exemple where ES can't be used and this on will be used.
Last I checked, ES is assumed to max your hit rate. The upper cap of the hitrate is modified based on mobs (resist traits), and last year the devs seemed to imply in an answer that this was the whole point of the ability. Then they mentionned partial resists. Partial resists are entirely determined by magic acc, so the SP2 will not help more than ES. They seemed to imply that the new SP2 would remove partial resists ... woot. -
10-31-2013, 10:05 AMFynlar
No matter how much you guys wanna close your ears and pretend RDM's ability isn't terrible, it still is. It's arguably MORE terrible now than it was back when it was first announced.
Not only does Elemental Seal suffice for the very few times you actually need it for anything anymore, our macc has increased so significantly that a properly geared/skilled mage should have virtually no problems landing things even without either of these abilities.
The original proposed SP2 had far better "potential" than this one ever would. -
10-31-2013, 10:16 AMProthscarI had no idea that Chi Blast could be resisted!Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkovChain
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10-31-2013, 10:17 AMMarkovChain
You probably read that from BG, definitely not from me.
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10-31-2013, 10:26 AMMefuki
We never should have complained about RDM's original SP2 then, I guess. It would have been better to have just gone with that. Even then, I don't think anyone complained about just scraping it, we just wanted tweaks. There MUST be some reason why they think Stymie is worth the recast and limitations. Maybe they're planning for the future of MAcc? Maybe they're tooling around with new enfeebles?
On the plus side, at least we got them to change a few of the other SP2. Anyone remember how hilarious the BST SP2 was? -
10-31-2013, 12:25 PMOphannus
Wasn't BST's something like you killed your pet and gained Stoneskin equal to the pet's remaining HP and a RR3 effect?
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10-31-2013, 01:04 PMDemon6324236
Yeah, Chocoburger.
Exactly, that's the primary issue I have with this entire thing. Everyone on the forums basically agreed on the fact that the original idea held a ton of promise but it was just to short and to weak, it only lasted a minute, which was hardly enough time to fully buff, and it did not buff the effects enough, which could have easily been improved without breaking the game. But rather than actually adjusting like they did with most, they flat out changed it, and afterward, we pointed out the flaws, said it was bad, we all said we wanted the other one back with the changes we asked for, but nothing. Now, a long time has passed, yet still, no change, instead, they continue to try to justify it to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefuki
I think their reason is they fail to understand just how unneeded it is, and how little we actually use Enfeebles for their full effects. I can say I Paralyze Tojil, its hard, but I do it, I resist a few times for Immunobreaks, I throw down Saboteur, put on my potency gear and +2 hands, and throw it at him, it doesn't do anything really, it stops a few attacks here and there, but I don't use it for Paralyze, I use it for when Silence wears, so he doesn't get off a quick Diaga III or Sleepga while I am casting Silence again, and incase Silence gets its rare resist in. But the thing is, Silence is really the only Enfeeble I cast on Tojil besides Dia, everything else is either pointless because it does nothing, or it helps a little, but has such a small impact it doesn't matter if I do or not. The same goes for most fights in Adoulin. Paralyze has a minor effect in the overall battle, its mostly just a safeguard for me if anything, slow is pointless like poison, bind, sleep, break, and all of those other enfeebles, only really Paralyze, Silence, and Dia are of any use to me generally. So to me, I think its more that they just overestimate its use, and the overall use of Enfeebling Magic as a whole.Quote:
There MUST be some reason why they think Stymie is worth the recast and limitations.
Both of these to me are a bad idea for so many reasons. Firstly, I hope RDM gets more Magic Accuracy than this, possibly a better staff, or some way to match the staff in Magic Accuracy, in which case it is harder to account for the future, unless they plan to make NMs so resistant that it requires this to land our spells. Secondly, its because it assumes that new spells would have such a use that it be worth this kind of timer in the first place, because unless they are spell which are so overpowered that they should be near impossible to land otherwise, such as Amnesia, I can not see them ever being worth an hour wait time.Quote:
Maybe they're planning for the future of MAcc? Maybe they're tooling around with new enfeebles?
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10-31-2013, 01:22 PMByrth
Okay, so the first batch of SP abilities was a mixed bag. Some of them suck (Mijin Gakure, Perfect Dodge, Azure Lore, etc.) and some of them are awesome (like Mighty Strikes). A few of them have even been adjusted (Tabula Rasa, Eagle Eye Shot, etc.) However, I'm not really expecting this second batch of SP abilities to be any better on average despite the fact that we've given feedback directly related to them. They did try to incorporate some suggestions, which got a major rework of the original abilities (some for the better and some for the worse) and that got us a new mixed bag. Some of the new ones are terrible (like RDM's, even the old 1.5x enhancing potency one was better) and some are good (Brazen Rush is just another thing for WARs to stack during a zerg). I'll be looking forward to using Grand Pas on DNC once every hour, as it's infinitely better than my original SP ability, Trance.
The real question I have is: Why did it take so many months to walk them from the test server to the real server? You're implementing essentially the same SP2s that were on the test server months and months ago. Why the heck did it take so long if you weren't cooking up a third mixed bag?
Don't get me wrong. I don't think that making a third set of SP2s would be any more successful than your first two attempts. This isn't because I think it is impossible to design good SP2s, but after ~60 tries you've got about a 50% success rate and seem somewhat unable to identify which SPs need to be changed. I just feel that the sane position with the available evidence is acceptance rather than demanding the unlikely, which is probably the conclusion that you reached as well (hence the release), so why did it take so long? -
10-31-2013, 01:24 PMMefuki
Actually it wasn't even Stoneskin.
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Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.
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10-31-2013, 01:49 PMdasvaI'd disagree since the reason is either a flat out lie made up to make us feel better or made by people who have absolutely no understanding on how the game works thinking they do know better than the people actually playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babekeke
As far as Kurma I was landing dispel without ES at about 50% rate before the ilvl update if I had a geo. And since it only takes 45 macc to go from 50% to capped at 95% the ilvl update has made it so I have capped hit rate without a geo. On top of that they are saying it's for with ES which gives so much macc that people haven't been really able to test it. Basically their reasoning comes down to some kind of mythical mob that is so strong it has about twice the meva as any mob in the game but is weak enough where landing 1 enfeeble once will be a game changer when nothing else will land on it including stuns. Combine with the fact that current enfeebles rdm has are too weak and have been gimped so that they aren't worthwhile enough against mobs to justify bringing a rdm 99.9% of the time. I mean none of the enhance enfeeble nor saboteur works with dia which might actually be good if it did. Saboteur is gimped against nms despite the fact that a fully geared and merited saboteur slow II from a rdm is still less slow than a naked lvl 59 brd
And the biggest slap in the face is the blm sp2 does the same thing... except it does it for all types of magic AND for a duration instead of 1 spell AND lower enmity. And if you scroll back a bit to when they were talking about them previously like a year or so back you will see it's supposed to be comparable to elemental seal except for 60 seconds I think?
Though I must say the fact that they actually took into concern something as minor problem as tp feed of ninjas sp2 while at the same time completely ignoring the major flaws of rdm is also a solid slap. It's like closing your window from the rain but ignoring the hurricane at your door -
10-31-2013, 01:51 PMdasvaold one was rather awesome if somewhat odd for brdQuote:
Originally Posted by Zhronne
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10-31-2013, 02:03 PMdasvaAlso part of the problem was the original text made it to be alot better than it was. Since it said it increased duration and effect. But when it hit the test server it only had effect and they were like oh yeah that's how it's supposed to be. So we were all like ok so we can 2hr to throw a haste that and regen on our friends that has like 1/2 the potency and 1/3 the duration of embrava? We can do protects/shells that are slightly better than whms. Enspells that are still inferior to ifrits for 3 minutes etc. If they had kept the duration increase say maybe triple the duration then the weak potency increase might have been worthwhile. But a 1hr enhancing the potency of buffs that last 3 minutes at most needs to at least double them to be even remotely comparable to say idk stealing 50 tp per hit from a mob <.<. But as much tweaking as it needed it was 1000X better than the change. The only way this could even be remotely useful is if they litterally double the potency of rdm debuffs. Which really given how little they effect battle to begin with should be done anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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10-31-2013, 02:41 PMDemon6324236
Well hell, even if it doubled the potency of the enfeeble, then its just Elemental Seal fused with Saboteur.
Like I said before. Even if it was 1.5x multiplier on potency, 3 minute duration, and that was it, it would have been at least decent. Double potency with 3min duration would have been really nice. I can understand why duration was not included, and that's because of Composure and our gear which enhances duration. I mean, if you think about it, say for instance I use that then Haste myself, I just got a 30% Haste Effect which lasts about 25 minutes, admittedly, that is a bit overpowered. On the other hand, without the duration bonus. This could have been great for buffing parties as well as giving RDM melee a great boost. 40% Double Attack, 30% Haste, 50STR, so on, but the thing is that all but Haste is basically self cast, about the only other things which could possibly be overpowered would be Protect, Shell, and Phalanx. Phalanx would become 70 Damage Reduction, not overpowered, but quite powerful all the same, fair in my book, however Protect for 350 DEF could be a bit overboard, and Shell with near capped MDT alone, yeah, bit OP. The thing is, they can limit this kind of stuff, the effects with certain things, I mean Composure doesn't work with Protect/Shell, why would this have to? They could balance it easy. -
10-31-2013, 03:35 PMMinikom
perosnally i dont see use for some SP abilities but im just thinking on our current content and not about future.
Beastmaster
Unleash
Increase Charm rate and reduces the recast time for Sic and Ready.
Charm WTF who still use that and recast for sick and ready, no real use when pets get tp so slow...this is definetly the worst SP, i know a lot of ppl think rdm is but rdm SP could be useful if is possible to break the inmuno no break on all Mobs, example, let RDM sleep ADL CLONES lol?
Monk
Inner Strength
Increases your max HP.
what happened to the counter ability, i remember they used to talk acount countering everything for MNK ability
Corsair
Cut Card
Reduces the recast time for party members' special abilities.
I just dont undertand this SP... we have wild card already, 3rd roll idea was something nice, let all rolls to be 11s or lucky numbers is another great idea but intead of that they giving us this, just dont undertand :/
Geomancer
Widened Compass
Expands the range of geomancy spell effects.
well with this ja, i wonder what is going to be the new range for indi spell and geo spells, if range is huge, geomace wont need to be too close of Monsters and can avoid take dmg, also all depend on if mobs have 20 range tp moves with death effect lol -
10-31-2013, 03:44 PMBabekekeWhooooooooshh!Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkovChain
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10-31-2013, 05:36 PMMarkovChainCOR one actually doesn't suck, but not with the idea of using the 2H on a single fight of course. For instance ppl use 2H a lot in delve, well just have a COR SP2 and you don't have to wait 15 minutes for it to be ready on time. I know that when I do ADL, I'm also often waiting on recast so it's rather good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minikom
For MNK, the SP2 is a chakra that doesn't suck basically with additionnal effect of being invicible for a few seconds. Thy did say it auto caps HP.