A possible change for warrior

I was thinking today about how they might fix warrior. By no means am I a master at war as I'm only 37 so please fill in if you can. I love how warrior plays and the wrath mechanics but it lacks in damage mitigation. And by that don't mean straight up damage mitigation. I believe the cures it uses needs to be reworked just slightly.

We all know inner beast is lacking because generally the whm over cures you anyway, thus making it pointless to use inner beast in the first place. So technically you mitigate 0 damage with the skill.

You will never ever get a whm in a group to wait and see if a warrior uses inner beast to mitigate damage. It's way to much risk take and if the war does it will be the whm's fault. The only way a this would happen is they were on a chat server with a headset.

What needs to happen is inner beast needs to be changed from a big heal to a steady regen affect. Something that could be maintained permanently with the correct cycle of your wrath abilities.

This would provide a constant mitigation of let's day 100 hp per tick (it should scale with hp) for around 20 seconds. It should also be affected by things like convelesence.

I'm not a number cruncher and do not claim do be it's just a rough idea but this would provide similar sort of mitigation as before but it cannot be ruined by a badly times cure.

Please tell me what you think

I disagree

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Originally Posted by Tronic

I disagree

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Care to add why you disagree?

we need not regen effect we need more LS like 2k

The problem with one big cure is they don't mitigate a thing if your white Mage cures you anyway. If you inner beast and the whm over cures you. You may have well saved your wrath and used it for something else. The whm still had to waste time to cure you. Therefore making the fact you used inner beast useless

I feel like it should be a shield. FFXIV is just a WoW-clone, so let's borrow some WoW ideas.

Feral Druid was crap for years. Even though they always, and still, have the highest amount of HP; They were hands down the worst tank... until Cataclysm. That's when they added the auto-shielding effect. It was never big enough to completely null the damage a boss was dealing, but it softened the edge without giving Feral "just another mitigation CD".

Inner Beast needs to be a 500% Shield effect. Let me burn it the second I get it, and in order to do that, Inner Beast needs to ALWAYS do something. Heals are sometimes for 0hp, so Inner Beast should have never been a heal anyway. The other issue is Wrath stacking. It feels like wasting combo points on a Rogue. The +15% heal shouldn't be based on Wrath stacks, but just part of Defiance, in the same way Shield Oath is passive. It's counter-intuitive to hold onto Wrath, when literally every single WAR ability needs it to function.

Lastly, WAR does need an "oh shit" button, and that should be Foresight. Make it passively last 30s (PLD buff, zomg!?) and the "Enhanced" passive trait, add a "NIN" style "blink-tanking" effect, that adds in 100% dodge chance for X number of physical attacks (I'd say 2 or 3). That makes the skill name make more sense too.

I think those are good places to start. Honestly, I feel like Bloodbath and Storm's Path are junk too, but the above are much more serious problems.

Also disagree, that would just add inner beast into a constant rotation (which is a rather boring play style). I rather it maintain the use of being an "Oh S***" button and allowing warriors to make that call on when is the best time for it's use.

It's true problem is just the concept that your sacrificing effective long term healing for a quick burst heal (that might be worth it). Better motivation for making this sacrifice would be welcoming.

Here is the thing, the only thing WAR really has going for it right now is the ability to mitigate a big hit after taking it with Inner Beast.

If I take a 4500 dmg mountain buster + 900 dmg AA, I need ~3000-4000 healing before the tumults start. I'm not worried about overhealing in such a situation. I'm worried about not dying. Even if both healers drop perfectly timed cure II's for 1500 each, that still leaves me at a significant deficit, which is largely mitigated by Inner Beast.

If Inner Beast were changed into a HoT, it would be straight up horrible because you wouldn't have the burst mitigation. It would net slight efficiency returns for healers, but it would leave WAR without any tools to deal with big spikes of damage unless it was something obscene like 900% damage is returned as health over 15 seconds, at which point it would tick for ~700 which would possibly be enough, but that would probably be far too efficient and extremely OP.

It would also mean our peak burst mitigation would be way down, as it would negate the use of IB -> Infuriate -> IB.

In the end, the better way to avoid over healing would be to make Inner Beast an absorb shield instead of a heal. But that's neither here nor there. There are a hundred things SE could do to close the gap. It just looks like they aren't interested in doing any of them.

copy paste from a other Thread:

My HP has Increast from fresh 50 til now from 5500 to 6800HP. but my dmg didnt increased taht much that i can say "Bloodbath, StormsPath" heals good.

Aslong SE dont Change Bloodbath, Stormspath and IB into max% HP, we will be just second class Tank.

Increase Bloodbath to 3% max HP selfheal per hit
Stormspath to 10% max HP Selfheal per hit
IB to 25-30% max HP Selfheal.

maybee u think These Numbers OP, but get a closer look, Paladin can use 20% dmg reduce, 40% dmg reduce, 100%dmg reduce and Blockchance 60% (Block reduce dmg about 20-24%)

So, a Warrior has 7000HP, with bloodbath he heal himself with 210 per hit, 30sec 90sec CD, Stormspath witch is our last Combo skill heals for 700 (3combos Need 10sec.)
IB should be a better heal then right now, because ist not spaamable and we Need do build up 5 stacks first so like 20sec. so all 20sec we could heal us for 1750-2100

Thats not OP, but we Need stronger selfheal or we are never on the Level from Paladin with all his dmg reduce abilities.

Thanks for all your feedback as I mentioned I'm not at cap yet nor do I do the math. I never meant swapping inner beast for another skill. I meant give us another wrath skill where we could have a HoT or use inner beast depending on our situation. Then we could use inner beast for the oh sh*t moments or keep HoT up for a more sustained mitigation

Fine suggestions, that way Warriors can stack VIT with lifesteal scaling with max hp. Storm's path doesn't heal much for now and even if it does won't be life saving, they could buff our self heal but just fairly so that we won't put too much load on the healer. Also i was thinking since it takes about 20 secs to build 5 stacks of wrath, i suggest to change it to 4 stacks of wrath to reach infuriation if that's not too OP. IB can be used more often and lessens the load on healers.

On top of that, they could buff passive dmg reduction a lil, maybe each wrath stack gives us 2-2.5% dmg reduction for 5 secs, giving us essentially about 10% dmg reduction. However, it seems that the warrior class' theme is based on liefstealing and not mitigation. In WoW, blood dk was undertuned during catalcysm, what they did was buff dk's hp in blood presence and their armor bonus, that way dks will have a high pool of hp preventing them from 2-3 shotted which allow them to self heal successfully.

To me, it seems SE's plan for WAR has always been a self-healing tank, it makes sense, PLD mitigates damage, WAR heals it back. two very different styles and a nice diversity in the tanking classes.

the problem is the scaling. bloodbath returns 25% damage as a heal, storm's path gives 50%, while mercy stroke (should you ever manage to pull off the timing in an instance, esp 8man ones) and inner beast return 300% and this just isnt enough healing at endgame.

there's two ways to resolve this, WAR needs to put out more damage so those self heals effectively return more HP per hit, or increase the percentages returned. As tanking equips generally focus on VIT and can be used by both PLD and WAR it would prove hard to increase WAR's damage output without altering its base damage, meaning it'd become more competition for DD classes, and i feel that area is pretty well balanced, altering that has a serious chance of causing imbalance. The other is to increase the amount of health returned from damage done.

giving WAR a trait at level 50 that makes bloodbath and storm's path return 100% of damage done as healing would work well, add in a 200% return for critical hits and that really should do the job. the mechanics could also alter bloodbath slightly for AoE hits, with a 100% return on damage to targeted mob, 25% for all others, to prevent it from becoming overpowered (no pun intended). making it a level 50 trait also prevents WAR from being too overpowered at earlier levels, as its only during endgame content that the majority of the difference between %mitigation and static healing returns becomes an issue.

Well I can think of a few things that could potentially help WAR.

-Lower the recast on Unchained
-and/or-
-Double Wraith gained during Unchained
-and/or-
-Allow Heavy Swing to Build Wraith
-and/or-
-Increase Unchained's recast to 5-7 minutes, maintain it's current effect but allow the WAR to use Wraith moves without the need for Wraith for it's duration.
-and/or-
-Allow WAR's to gain the full effect of TP moves without combo's while Unchained is active (similiar to Pugilist's Perfect Balance Ability).
-and/or-
-Add an additional effect to Storms Path that boosts the amount of HP that the player can heal/be healed for for a short duration.
-and/or-
-Add an additional effect to Storms Path that debuffs a monster and allows the player/party members to heal a portion of the damage done while the debuff is in place.

Can you tell I'm bored yet. :P

Edit:
-and/or-
-Add an addtional effect to Storms Path that debuffs the mob, during this debuff a percentage of damage done by the party will build up and once the debuff expires the WAR will be healed for the amount built up.
-and/or-
-Add an addtional effect to Storms Path that debuffs the mob, a portion of damage done by the party will heal the WAR for that amount while the debuff is active. (IE: Constant low incoming cures)
-and/or-
-Unchained no longer consumed Wraith, While under the effect of Unchained all Wraith moves consume 1 Wraith.

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Originally Posted by Shingi

there's two ways to resolve this, WAR needs to put out more damage so those self heals effectively return more HP per hit, or increase the percentages returned. As tanking equips generally focus on VIT and can be used by both PLD and WAR it would prove hard to increase WAR's damage output without altering its base damage, meaning it'd become more competition for DD classes, and i feel that area is pretty well balanced, altering that has a serious chance of causing imbalance. The other is to increase the amount of health returned from damage done.

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Both of these are ineffective as both seek to increase flat self-healing. If you increase flat self-healing, you make WAR broken in solo and 4-man content, and probably in PvP as well. This will be felt especially as the cap goes up and more 4-man and solo content appears. There is no way around it. To address the issue, you need healing that scales to enemy damage, not to your own. This is what WAR has the healing bonus on Wrath to address, but the bonus is too small and inappropriately coupled to your resource for Inner Beast. Like spell stocks did in FF8, this mechanic just forces the player to ignore Inner Beast to maintain maximum efficiency in high-damage situations.

Anyway, I've already posted my suggestion, rationale, and math elsewhere. Short version: decouple Wrath and the healing bonus, buff the bonus, buff max HP.

I like the Wrath Mechanics, it lets you make slightly different decisions in different situations, I do think a few things could be altered, 1.0 Warrior in their "tank" stance had a passive that made it where their crits would absorb health, not only would that help a little with self heals, it would make a good secondary stat to gear for, and make cross classing internal release a defensive cooldown. I think foresight should be parry/parry amount, let us prep for big hits like mountain buster. Steel Cyclone, ah that was a nifty little ability before the calamity, and it seems to have been hit hard by Dalamud, it still has its uses, but add increased emnity, or slow effect to it.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

Steel Cyclone, ah that was a nifty little ability before the calamity, and it seems to have been hit hard by Dalamud, it still has its uses, but add increased emnity, or slow effect to it.

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Does steel cyclone really have much use now? I guess if you're clearing trash and don't need to worry about survivability it's better than nothing to dump your wrath and/or burn infuriate to use it. The main problem I have with it is it's a DPS move that's only usable in tank stance, and it costs too much for the limited damage it does. I find it very very rare that it's worth the trade off. I wish they'd redesign it so it was more useful, preferably usable outside of tank stance.

Shamelessly copied from http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...pilation/page2 (need to keep spreading the idea if possible :P)

Steel Cyclone: this used to be like our bread and butter back in the day, now its pointless use of wrath, to make it more useful/engaging
change it to the following options:

2 wrath stack: 150-200 aoe dmg like it is right now with an enmity modifier (our version of flash so to speak)
3 wrath stack: 200 aoe dmg with +5% crit or dmg bonus for a duration
4 wrath stack: 250 aoe dmg with a 50%? heal according to dmg
5 wrath stack: 250-300 aoe dmg & -20% dmg taken for a duration

Just a random idea and it may take some tweaks and/or reverse the orders or w/e but at least this way theres more options according to situation and steel cyclone is useful.

Storm's Path is garbage

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

IB to 25-30% max HP Selfheal.

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Why would you nerf the heal on IB? On a bad day, I hit 450 with IB, a crit with Berserk will do up to 922 (my record) which would in turn heal me for 2766 which is more than 25-30% of my max HP.

Back on Topic:
In my opinion and as mentioned by many others, warriors need some form of ability to counter constant high damage such as enraged mob or a huge pack of mobs. What's the point of having better tools for AoE aggro if we cannot survive it better than PLD? A PLD will flash for aggro, but that blinds enemies, PLD already mitigates more with 20% reduction AND block, but also has CDs to mitigate even more damage. What WAR does is spam Overpower and hope that the 25% of their damage keeps them up until the next heal from the WHM.

Our self-healing just can't counter high incoming damage, making us a LOT more dependent on gear than PLD, and in turn, we remain a second class citizen.