The High Grade of Immaturity is Astonishing

I know there are a lot of Threads like this already, but i wanted to start my own.
First of all, i'm 32 yrs old and English is not my primary Language, so please bear with me(the Language thing, not the Age ;)).

Oh, and please dont tell me "Welcome to the World of MMOs"
I've played a lot of MMORPGs and i mean a lot, but i've never seen things distinct like this before...

I really am a nice Guy and i'm going to help/explain people Stuff they dont know if they mess up or whatnot. I really dont see/understand why some people HAVE to harass or use foul Language, to hurt other Players. You Guys started from scratch aswell someday! There is no one, that got they're Knowledge and Equip from SE right from the start!

I know a lot of Player find it daunting and wont use the DF anymore because of THIS! And right at this point, there are some people thinking: "then dont use DF and go with your FC/LS", but that's what the Duty Finder is for.

Part 2 following up. Too much Text :eek:

Why don't use it? SE gave it to us just for that reason. I got over it now, because i'm old enough to know what to do/say and what not. It's just not right... Some may not care, but i wanted to share it with everyone! It's simply sad...

Same thing is when somebody dies during a Dungeon/Primal Fight or is aggroing Mobs. The first thing i see is either ".......", "DONT AGGRO SHIT NOOB!", "WTF" or Player A insults Player B and leaves the Dungeon/Primal Fight. Why? Nobody dies in RL if it takes 5-10 minutes longer. Wasting time you say? Well there's so much Stuff in life, that is "wasting time" Some take it WAY to seriously. It's till just a freaking Game. Nothing more and nothing less.

If you want to punch something, go buy yourself a Sandbag and don't let it out on other People.

Part 3 coming...

Oh and please dont try to lecture me... I'm through with it. Game is fun, i keep playing and i don't let it reach me. Maybe when subs kick in, most of the Trollolols are gone. Keep your Hopes up!

Over and out :o

I'm not lecturing other Players how to behave online. That should be common sense and its just my point of view beacuse i dont get it why some people are like that.

I was in DF the other day... me (SCH), LNC, MNK and a Tank... we were having fun then reached the first boss, and we died. We try again and we die. By now tank is unhappy and barking orders and calling names and using profanity (why doesn't my profanity filter work? >.<). We go in and die again. Then we try one more time, but this time:

Tank goes in, we follow, get locked into fight, tank quits, leaving us to die.

(That is rather immature and pathetic behavior that would not occur if we lived on the same server, but he can easily do because he is essentially anonymous to us)

Ironically, we managed to get the boss down even further without him, then with him O.o!

For me, the problem is not the duty finder, the problem is not the lack of experience or good gear.. the real big problem is getting matched with people who behave so impolitely (and attempt to MPK us o.o).

These can be alleviated in the future I hope (I had suggestions on feature-adds to DF to make it better). But I do not know how we can really solve the underlying problem:

Why are people being immature, mean, shouty, insulting, and offensive in a video game with no material rewards that exists for pure personal enjoyment?

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Originally Posted by Vorador30

I'm not lecturing other Players how to behave online. That should be common sense and its just my point of view beacuse i dont get it why some people are like that.

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How many releases of MMO have you experienced? My thoughts are, every time a new MMO starts you have 50% WoW players that want to try a new MMO and there are a lot of immature brats that come from there. Not saying everyone is like that but "a lot".
Then there are those "hardcore" guys that get to max as soon as possible and try to beat all the content before their free trial runs out, so when its not running perfectly they immediately start to rage.

Usually both problems disappear after trial run so look forward to october.

Edit: another thing that comes to mind,"current generation" kids these days seem to get more and more cocky.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I was in DF the other day... me (SCH), LNC, MNK and a Tank... we were having fun then reached the first boss, and we died. We try again and we die. By now tank is unhappy and barking orders and calling names and using profanity (why doesn't my profanity filter work? >.<). We go in and die again. Then we try one more time, but this time:

Tank goes in, we follow, get locked into fight, tank quits, leaving us to die.

(That is rather immature and pathetic behavior that would not occur if we lived on the same server, but he can easily do because he is essentially anonymous to us)

Ironically, we managed to get the boss down even further without him, then with him O.o!

For me, the problem is not the duty finder, the problem is not the lack of experience or good gear.. the real big problem is getting matched with people who behave so impolitely (and attempt to MPK us o.o).

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I can feel ya. Stuff like that happened often enough to me aswell.

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Originally Posted by GinTama

How many releases of MMO have you experienced? My thoughts are, every time a new MMO starts you have 50% WoW players that want to try a new MMO and there are a lot of immature brats that come from there. Not saying everyone is like that but "a lot".
Then there are those "hardcore" guys that get to may as soon as possible and try to beat all the content before their free trial runs out, so when its not running perfectly they immediately start to rage.

Usually both problems disappear after trial run so look forward to october.

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I never played WoW so i cannot say, but i hope it will.
To name a few: UO, Lineage 2, Aion, Tera, 2 Moons, FFXI, GW2, Vindictus, Age of Conan etc., but it wasnt nowhere near as bad in any of those Games like its in FFXIV.

The world(our MMO) would be a better place if everyone just got along and shared their shinies... and knowledge! Nothing is a bigger relief to a player new to a dungeon than an experienced player who is willing to give them outlines. =3

I go out of my way to talk to people and make friends whenever I can. The way I see it, it's always better for everyone to make friends instead of making enemies.

It would be nice if people would think before they speak. Just think, "How would I feel if someone said this to me?" If the answer is "Not too good" then don't say it.

I blame bad parenting for the people who are like that ALL THE TIME, and bad days for the people who just every once in a while explode on someone.

Life is a giant cookie, share it!

If you get yelled at a lot, try and find out what youre doing wrong, and fix it. If you are not preforming poorly, or doing something wrong, then ignore them.

I fully agree there are plenty of lesser elements in the game, but the community is what you make of it.
I try to stay polite and civil and most of the time I get the same in return.
When someone acts like a Dbag , I still stay polite and shrug it off, its their loss, I rather keep honor in my side then degrading to their lvl.
best way to deal with them is by not letting them bait you, they ussually give up.

the trend is acknowledged. however, despite the apparent prevalence of "immaturity", I have personally not encountered anything like anything mentioned on the forums before.

tbh, I have only been in TWO df parties thus far that had these smartasses around - and were they offensive? no not really, they were just know-it-all, and because everyone else decided to be passive and ignored them, nothing really happened.

so is it just a loud minority complaining about the the community? maybe. the take-away, however, is not to contribute to this trend, and move on.

All I want to say, Mr. Argonar, is that for English being your second language you write it a lot better than most English speaking people I know. lol

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Tank goes in, we follow, get locked into fight, tank quits, leaving us to die.

(That is rather immature and pathetic behavior that would not occur if we lived on the same server, but he can easily do because he is essentially anonymous to us)

For me, the problem is not the duty finder, the problem is not the lack of experience or good gear.. the real big problem is getting matched with people who behave so impolitely (and attempt to MPK us o.o).

These can be alleviated in the future I hope (I had suggestions on feature-adds to DF to make it better). But I do not know how we can really solve the underlying problem:

Why are people being immature, mean, shouty, insulting, and offensive in a video game with no material rewards that exists for pure personal enjoyment?

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He doesn't care if he is on the same server as you.
I did lol at what he did to you though haha

I wish i could reply to you all but im at work atm.
We all make mistakes, but instead of talking about it, you get yelled at. Oh well, i've learned to ignore People like that or try to talk about it the "normal" way.

And thanks Anavi:p I'm just glad everbody understands my Babelfish English;)

will not change op even when subs are up sadly. elitism will see to that.
im around the same age as you and can say i hear you!

df for me is a must, my free company is me and my bestfriend O.o soooo we kinda have to use it and i agree its there for a reason , more people should use it tbh. the immaturity you speak of, arghhh i have indeed seen in all mmos i play, it seems to vary in consistancy but its there. i never understood why ppl rage over a game, i just dont. i can see that mind set though in df and in many shouts for groups already which is kinda sad. (not all but some!)
i have not reached the final dungeons yet, close though, i never did them in 1.0 but am levelling a bard now and experiencing the story line along the way. i have met some really really nice ppl in df, sadly they were not from my server yet....so making a static or friends is tough cross server;; i have also seen the things you described as well over the slightest mistake ppl make.
its almost embarassing to see another human act that way.

to me its entertainment not a lifestyle, win or lose,i have as much fun as i can. im here to progress and i focus very well in any run, give it 100% for my benefit and for others too. but i refuse to rage or belittle anyone over....a...game.

its all about people .. peoples are not respecting eachother like evokerkeii said; its not just about game .. believe me if someone yelling you in a game those person probably same at the real life ... they are generally stick a game just like a matter of life. its just a game guys why bother so much if you wiped once or twice or so many times?... i never forget "The Navel" run i did, it was just amazin we keep wiped till the last minute no one blame eachother everytime we wiped we said "its ok we will do this time" and we did it at last 46 sec. nothing can beat that happiness ...and probably i wont forget that run

I would like to add my 2 gil into this thread:

I'd like to first say this, I have never been in a beta/launch before in an MMO. I've only played 4 MMO's being FFXI(9½yrs),AION(1yr),TERA(5months),WoW(2months).

All that being said, I have come across some very ill-mannered people through out my MMO experiences. I usually just brush it off, or /blist(obviously can't be done when there are cross-server events involved.) Generally for the most part my best experience in an MMO was on FFXI and AION. I hardly ever ran into trolls as I did in TERA and WoW(Nothing against those games at all! Good games and fun, didn't like WoW's storyline and TERA lacked endgame.) Of course when you found some on any game that wasn't troll heavy, they usually did grate on your nerves.

So many people like to use the excuse "internet anonymity" or "it's just pixels deal with it." That is a very poor mentality to have about this situation. Yes, I don't care over the actual pixels if I don't get a drop or something is lost. But I am, and so is everyone else I hope, are human beings. Humans that are flawed and very emotional. Everyone's emotions range from either extremely emotional to very logical and not so much. Each individual is different and reacts to situations differently. No one seems to really care that behind these "pixels" there are actual people with intelligence, feelings, and humanity. Even the trolls and just flat out rude people have all of this as well.

I've never came across such rude behavior yet in an MMO, of this volume. I've came in contact with far worst people in and out of real life. But even if it's just small acts of rude behavior it seems to be in high volume. I really do hope it's just where this is being a launch and that after the trials end, it will even itself out. You're always going to run into rude and selfish people even in life no matter where you go.

Oh and about the whole FC/LS vs DF argument. I have a wonderful LS and an FC that does help me out when they can if they can. That doesn't always mean we're on the same exact content or have the same exact play times. So like most, I try to use the DF, the excuse "Get an FC/LS and stop whining about DF!" is just that... an excuse. If SE implemented this into their game, obviously it was meant to be used... Even with an FC/LS you still run into content/play times where everyone or the majority might not be able to play when/what you do. So it's nice to have a back up means to get into dungeons and get your content done.

TL : DR - Not trying to tell anyone to respect anyone else. If you find it in your hearts/mind, be nice. Only you can decide how you want to act towards others.

It seems to me the community at endgame tanks. I have not met a party yet that was not a pleasure to play with, even if we wiped. Yet I hear all the self entitled a-holes moaning that their speedrunning exploit got fixed and that they may get their gear rolled back for exploiting Titan HM. Kinda not looking forward to the endgame if it's that toxic. Maybe in a month it will level off as free periods start ending soon.

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Originally Posted by Shuon

the trend is acknowledged. however, despite the apparent prevalence of "immaturity", I have personally not encountered anything like anything mentioned on the forums before.

tbh, I have only been in TWO df parties thus far that had these smartasses around - and were they offensive? no not really, they were just know-it-all, and because everyone else decided to be passive and ignored them, nothing really happened.

so is it just a loud minority complaining about the the community? maybe. the take-away, however, is not to contribute to this trend, and move on.

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Nah its really like that, Ive been in about 30-40 DF and every second or third DF has one of those.

Simple answer: Because some people are just assholes.

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Originally Posted by EvokerKeii

This is a cultural plague that affects not just this game and other MMOs, but gaming as a whole now...no, not just gaming... America as a whole.
I see it every day. Attitudes on the road. Attitudes at the work place. Attitudes at the stores...attitudes everywhere.
There is a clear lack of respect being taught by parents and it's starting to show more and more.

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Please, it's not just American, I'm Asian and I find alot of other Asian gamers repulsive.

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Originally Posted by GinTama

Edit: another thing that comes to mind,"current generation" kids these days seem to get more and more cocky.

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I was going to mention this myself. Aside from anonymity creating a safehaven for trolls w/o physical consequence, the younger crowd(I'm 26) is feeling more and more entitled and cocky as you say. It makes me just want to drop kick them in the chest. (The imagery makes me laugh every time)

Also, MMOs tend to drag in a crowd that has no life and look to another world to keep them occupied. The lack of contact with real people makes them crave attention akin to the class clown who doesn't mind being the "bad kid" because he likes the attention he gets from it(better than nothing).

Honestly, what people really need is to get a gym membership and get laid regularly. Also, they need to get a damn job. I admit that I love MMOs(big gamer in general) and choose to spend my free time playing games but I don't forget the real world and all it's pleasures and responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by v_jones

So basically, you're 26 years old, feel those younger than you are entitled and cocky, and then you proceed to:

1) Laugh at the image of drop kicking someone in the chest
2) Generalize that MMOs draw in those who have no life (except you of course)
3) Accuse them of being attention seekers who lack contact with real people
4) Imply that they are unhealthy ("need is to get a gym membership") and are virgins ("and get laid regularly").
5) Oh, and they also don't have a job.
6) PS, you are a big gamer but totally not like those other younger people.

Frankly, I think the issue with the "community", in so much as a half million people can be considered a community, is right here. No one actually knows what they are saying.

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1) It's funny, and has nothing to do with cockiness or entitlement. Look them up.
2)It does draw them in, in what world does that mean it's the majority or the only group there?
3)Take Psychology 101, this is based on case studies and again, based on a specific group that even the OP is talking about. It's not off topic.
4)That, I admit was just based on generalization of MMO population, but in a lot of cases not wrong. I work at a college and an entire floor of one of our buildings has been colonized by these type of people (who don't actually attend this college btw, they use it for the free wifi for their gaming groups and are here from the time i come in in the morning and are there when i leave so must coincidentally work overnight shifts). I see them daily.
5)Refer to number 4.
6) how much of an idiot do you have to be to argue about generalization and then have the nerve to accuse me of being like those spoiled brats by generalization that I'm a gamer? Really? Let me guess, all people who watch Anime must also be "Otaku" that wear tails and school girl outfits?

I completely agree that some people don't know what they're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Riko_113

I was going to mention this myself... the younger crowd(I'm 26) is feeling more and more entitled and cocky as you say.

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So basically, you're 26 years old, feel those younger than you are entitled and cocky, and then you proceed to:

1) Laugh at the image of drop kicking someone in the chest
2) Generalize that MMOs draw in those who have no life (except you of course)
3) Accuse them of being attention seekers who lack contact with real people
4) Imply that they are unhealthy ("need is to get a gym membership") and are virgins ("and get laid regularly").
5) Oh, and they also don't have a job.
6) PS, you are a big gamer but totally not like those other younger people.

Frankly, I think the issue with the "community", in so much as a half million people can be considered a community, is right here. No one actually knows what they are saying.

Deep thought:

Which is worse, high-grade immaturity or low-grade immaturity?

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Originally Posted by Vorador30

I'm not lecturing other Players how to behave online. That should be common sense and its just my point of view beacuse i dont get it why some people are like that.

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By your own logic it should also be common sense not to aggro shit, come prepared to dungeons (i.e. not come to Titan with a GC weapon and wearing full AF), and generally learn what to do in each dungeon. I don't get why a majority of people are like that...stupid.

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Originally Posted by Altheras

The world(our MMO) would be a better place if everyone just got along and shared their shinies... and knowledge! Nothing is a bigger relief to a player new to a dungeon than an experienced player who is willing to give them outlines. =3

I go out of my way to talk to people and make friends whenever I can. The way I see it, it's always better for everyone to make friends instead of making enemies.

It would be nice if people would think before they speak. Just think, "How would I feel if someone said this to me?" If the answer is "Not too good" then don't say it.

I blame bad parenting for the people who are like that ALL THE TIME, and bad days for the people who just every once in a while explode on someone.

Life is a giant cookie, share it!

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Mmmm... giant cookie... :)

*shakes head*

I'm sorry. What were you saying?

Don't party with random idiots and it is less likely you will be yelled at / abused.

DF is swarmed with kids and bad players who like to use it in order to vent their miserable life's frustrations onto others. Use DF as a last resort. Think of it like a parachute. You never want to have to use it, but when there's no other option you can close your eyes and pull the cord (or hit queue).

Hell, I don't use the DF now because of bad players. I would much rather run the content with people I know. I've even decided to run back through the earlier dungeons for gear for other classes. Although Iv'e found out that this won't be a problem once I get each one to 50 because I can just buy darklight for my other classes that I saved the tomestones for by running with my first 50.

I'm not mean to players but when they won't listen and keep getting the party killed enough becomes enough and I leave.

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Originally Posted by Magis

It seems to me the community at endgame tanks. I have not met a party yet that was not a pleasure to play with, even if we wiped. Yet I hear all the self entitled a-holes moaning that their speedrunning exploit got fixed and that they may get their gear rolled back for exploiting Titan HM. Kinda not looking forward to the endgame if it's that toxic. Maybe in a month it will level off as free periods start ending soon.

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Yep, same here I've met about one group post 50 that I enjoyed to play with. They're either cry baby elitist or boring hardcore dud's that don't say a word the entire run. Ifrit HM took me 40 runs to get my sword, and I promised myself I'm done with primals. I'm waiting for primals to be nerfed or better gear to be accessible, before proceeding further into EG. Call me casual but primals and AK are in no way fun and are an exercise in bordem and frustration.

I don't know what it is but I don't have issues with struggling parties or immaturity.

I don't mean that I don't experience them, its just that they don't bother me personally. Dungeons have time limits which give me the deadline for going as far as I can. I use duty finder often and sure I've met plenty of "bad" players as well as folks that want to sling insults, but it just doesn't get to me. When we win or the time limit is done, I don't have to talk to them anymore and with all of the gil selling spam, /blist add "xxx" has become almost muscle memory.

Moreso than poor players and bad behavior do I find that there is a larger issue with social effort and personal patience.

So you like interacting with others but don't want to go through content with friends?

what?

The primal aren't hard at all. If they end up being nerfed that will be a bad sign form this game's future.

These days MMO's are so casualized and so watered down, that many people have more fun trolling all the trollable people than they do playing the game. It was less of an Issue in FFXI, but FFXI was a lot harder of a game in it's glory days. It's a bigger issue in wow... but look at wow... anyone can play wow and raid and get bis gear.

The more open a game is, the more casual people play it and the more trolls they encounter. It's natural cause and effect in action.

I try to be a nice guy as well, these are just my basic observations over the last decade. The more cookie cooker/easy the game is, the more the troll effect takes effect.

I mean think of it like the sport of baseball. If you force the Pro players to play T Ball with 5 year olds, what do you think will happen? They will troll the crap out of them, make fun of the game, the people playing it etc.. Now if the Pro players can stay in the major's and the 5yo's stay in TBall you have less of an issue.

Human Psychology 101.

Now usually, like players unite and form clicks, just like people form clicks at lunch tables in High School, or any social event in general. Now the duty finder makes this interesting because it doesn't respect a click (how could it) and just throws people together. So there is a clash of player types.

I laugh at verbal abuse.

There's nothing they can say that I would take serious. Nothing. You just gotta be tough.

I would say communities have devolved since our earliest mmo's. Mainly because they are so much more accessible to all types of players and have become more popular. My earliest mmo was EQ. Since then everything has changed from a slow gradual pace to "now now now!!" I just stay patient and polite, but thats how I was raised to treat people.

Thing is, bad words and insults only hurt you as much as you let them. I generally try not to as it tends to generate needless drama, but if you just stop caring about what one random guy typed at you out of anger, you'll be much happier. If they don't stop spamming you, you can blist them for the simple sake of being able to see your chat log. If they keep bugging you outside of tells and chat, that's when you should call for a GM and report harassment.

Nostalgia Glasses: Everyone on other games is helpful, this game has a horrible community.

Reality Vision: Elitists are on every MMO. Every mmo has a bad community.

Some of my best DF dungeon runs have been with first timers. Granted I had to explain every little bit of the dungeon (Well... mostly just the bosses) in extreme detail but I fully understand that everyone, including myself, had to start somewhere. I don't get mad at people for not researching fights beforehand either because I myself prefer to learn from experience or at least from in-game players that I can converse with.

I really don't like this age of everyone expecting everyone else to go meticulously research every single fight and every single detail of every fight online before even trying. The worst part is that, and I'd be willing to put Gil on it, the vast majority of the people expecting everyone else to "have experience" or "know the fight" probably had no experience and/or little to no knowledge of the fight when the did it their first time.

Half the fun for a lot of us is learning by doing and experiencing something for the first time without having everything spoiled for us. Now, don't get me wrong, I totally understand that it can be HIGHLY annoying and downright rage inducing to have people queue up for things and have literally no idea what's going on or what to do but really, if you don't want to deal with that or the possibility of that, you shouldn't use the Duty Finder. Either you shouldn't use the Duty Finder or you should be willing to ask at the start of every DF instance if it's someone's first time and be willing to explain EXACTLY what to do. First timers or people with questions should also take responsibility for speaking up when they enter a DF instance.

I feel like I should also add that's there always a difference between a bad player and an inexperienced player. Obviously there are players that are both terri-bad and inexperienced but being inexperienced never automatically means someone is a "bad" player. I rarely get mad at inexperienced players but I definitely do my fair share of raging at, on or about bad players.

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Originally Posted by Rythless

By your own logic it should also be common sense not to aggro shit, come prepared to dungeons (i.e. not come to Titan with a GC weapon and wearing full AF), and generally learn what to do in each dungeon. I don't get why a majority of people are like that...stupid.

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I understand what you mean, but i (and there are more people) like to not get spoiled from Videos/Guides and want to get surprised from Content in a Dungeon, even if it ends in a wipe. You can always continue/start again. Same with other Games. I hate reading Guides before i experienced it myself without knowing what happens next. Like Sub-Xero said - learning by doing. The aggro thing just happens. Its happens to the best of the best of the best. Its not like were walking into mobs on purpose to wipe everyone. (there ARE exceptions of course) Some just do it to troll ppl.