Cross Class abilities for PLD fairly useless

I love playing a PLD, but most of their cross class abilities are fairly useless in a group setting.

Cure - useless unless you're soloing and want to exchange all your MP for HP.

Foresight - The only useful ability

Skull Sunder - absolutely pointless

Fracture - Not terrible, but you wouldn't use a gcd on this instead of one of your normal threat generating abilities.

Protect - Useless in a group setting

Bloodbath - useless with the amount of dmg pld can do

Raise - only helpful when out of combat/out in the open world to help others

Mercy Stroke - Not much point in using this unless you're soloing.

Stoneskin - This would be usefull if there wasn't always a healer that was already casting this on everyone.

pld need cross class skill?

ROFL

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Originally Posted by hola

pld need cross class skill?

ROFL

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It's clear to me from your other posts you are unhappy with the current balance between WAR and PLD, but that isn't what this thread is about.

This is also not about whether or not we NEED them, the fact is, WE DON'T. But that is not a good thing. They are there to be used, when you have an extra 5 abilities and only 1 of them is remotely useful then there is something wrong.

The fact that PLD is good without using any of these cross-class abilities is irrelevant to the topic.

Ya our cross class abilities need some work. I would like to have at least more than one decent ability.

Bloodbath - macro with fight or flight duh

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Bloodbath - macro with fight or flight duh

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I don't mean to burst your bubble but that still doesn't do much. In 30 seconds with a 2.5s global cooldown you get 12 skill uses. Just for fun, lets assume that every one of your attacks as a PLD hit for an average of 400 (not going to happen, at least I haven't seen dps go that high, maybe coils gear would be different), that would be 4800 dmg across 30 seconds, 25% of that is 1200, across 30 seconds. That is not very useful. More realistically this number will be even lower, probably around 2000-3000 dmg, and 500-750 healing over 30 seconds, or 17-25 hps.

PLD is already OP with just their base skills. PLD can tank ilvl 90 content (Bahamut's Coil) in ilvl 70 gear. What use do they have for cross-class skills?

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Originally Posted by Illya

PLD is already OP with just their base skills. PLD can tank ilvl 90 content (Bahamut's Coil) in ilvl 70 gear. What use do they have for cross-class skills?

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Once again, the fact that they are viable without them is irrelevant to the topic. If you want to complain about PLD being "OP" then do it in a different thread.

There is no point in giving a class 5 abilities and then saying, oh well you don't need them anyway so it doesn't matter, we'll just give you things you won't use.

Surprise! Cross class abilities from Marauders suck because Marauder Abilities suck in general.

Also, Stoneskin is VERY usable in a large number of situations in the game currently. It's just a matter of knowing when to use it.

I would gladly drop one, or even two, of my "prized" mitigation cool downs for a useful cure so that I could actually feel like a PLD.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Fracture, Skull Sunder, and Bloodbath are all useful for a WAR, but not a PLD. Infact I'd like to see a WAR tank WITHOUT Skull Sunder, I bet that would be interesting, lol.

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Well, that makes sense. Like taking Savage Blade away.

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Nowhere have I said, THESE ABILITIES SUCK. It's that AS CROSS-CLASS ABILITIES FOR PLD, they are not very useful. (Aside from Foresight, and Stoneskin situationally)

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Please choose from any ability, aside from Thrill of Battle, off WAR that you would like to see on your PLD. Overpower?

This thread seems really whiney. On a side note I think medica would be hilarious

Fracture is pretty decent if you already have threat established to add a touch of extra DPS, but yeah - I agree that PLD cross-class skills are thoroughly mediocre at best. PLD native skills, on the other hand...

I use cure a lot on solo just because its nice for when you have bitten off more than you can chew or nobody is healing you in a fate group. But otherwise, I usually rely on my Paladin abilities. I play on PS3 so I try to keep my attack/buff hot bar clear of anything I don't plan on absolutely using.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

I would gladly drop one, or even two, of my "prized" mitigation cool downs for a useful cure so that I could actually feel like a PLD.

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You've obviously never been in a situation where our weak cures can actually save someone near death. I've seen it happen a couple of times so far while grouping, and it feels pretty nice to have the option to cast cures on people if needed, while at the same time not being mandatory by any stretch of the imagination.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Not sure if you're trying to insinuate I know nothing because those are all Pugilist abilities or what... They are still cross class abilities that a WAR has access to. Again, I am not saying PLD should get them, that would make absolutely no sense because we don't get any PGL abilities.

Either way, for the last time, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the current balance between PLD and WAR, and that's the last time I'm going to talk about it. Go troll somewhere else Faction.

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um actually, it's because mantra is 5% extra healing taken and second wind heals for 450...

lol

it's ok though you're an authority on class balance

This thread has no actual discussion.

1. Foresight. While only offering a small amount of overall mitigation, 5% I believe from testing, it is helpful enough to warrant a spot.

2. Stoneskin. Do you know what healers aren't casting on you during fights because it isn't mp efficient? That's right, stoneskin. Now, your stoneskin only covers 10% of your hp, but this is actually more efficient then cure. Now, imagine if you will, you're fighting titan hm and you're in the last phase, titan turns from you and uses landslide, which means hes about to use mountain buster, why not use stoneskin and make that whole mechanic much easier on your healers? Stoneskin is situational, but its great.

3. Raise. Always useful to have on the bar, not great in battle but great utility.

4. BloodBath. Yeah, it doesn't heal much but every little bit counts.

5. Fracture. Extra dps, Whats not to like?


Those are my choices, while I agree that PLD doesn't have the best CS skills, they are useful if you use them correctly.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You've obviously never been in a situation where our weak cures can actually save someone near death. I've seen it happen a couple of times so far while grouping, and it feels pretty nice to have the option to cast cures on people if needed, while at the same time not being mandatory by any stretch of the imagination.

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Up to level 50 I was in plenty of situations where cure had some marginal use. But level 50 content those situation are almost non existent. I want cure to be an important part of our basic rotation/gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Alwryn

-snip- (lolcharlimit)

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Agreed with all of this, but I'd replace Fracture with Mercy Stroke and Raise with Cure.

Despite it being less efficient than Stoneskin, Cure casts faster, so you have more chances to squeeze it in when you can't with Stoneskin (such as when Titan makes a jump).

Fracture's DPS increase is very tiny and I feel it doesn't warrant a GCD use. Mercy Stroke is off GCD and it's pretty decent for DPS phases. Also, pelvic thrusts.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

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Cure may cast faster, but I get more out of a single stoneskin then two cures. You also have to think about when the healers are toping you off. After a jump you're going to be cured to full anyway, making cure redundant in that scenario, however if you used stoneskin instead you'll have 500+ more hp while people are getting into postion. Don't get me wrong, having cure on your bar isn't a bad idea, I just feel its more situational then stoneskin.

With fracture I believe testing shows it to be around 300 pot, but I may be mistaken there.

I have three problems with mercy stroke, you can only use at certain hp levels, the heal isn't going to help you in endgame and I was also under the impression cross class mercy strike was actually on the gcd.

Good point on the Cure, though most of the time when I'm casting cure it's while people are running towards me. I may go back to just casting stoneskin though.

CC Mercy Stroke is off the GCD, and I never aim for the healing on bosses (obviously), it's just extra damage for burst situations. Fracture may have more DPS over time, but I prefer Mercy Stroke for when something has to be killed fast (Garuda adds, Titan Heart, etc).

Foresight and Cure are the only ones I use in group play. I plan on getting stone skin now that I hit 50.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

Bloodbath - macro with fight or flight duh

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I macro it with rampart. They have the same cooldown, and are both defensive, so wthn.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Up to level 50 I was in plenty of situations where cure had some marginal use. But level 50 content those situation are almost non existent. I want cure to be an important part of our basic rotation/gameplay.

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And I don't because mandatory off-healing on a tank is a bad idea when the tank already has plenty to look out for. We'll have to agree to disagree there.

Skull Sunder - this is a cross class ability for LNC/PUG (for instance). They can use this to be a makeshift tank if they want to. It's given to PLD as a matter of completeness (they get all the WAR cross class abilities) but serves no actual purpose on a PLD.

Bloodbath - With fight or flight and circle of scorn, I would think it would be somewhat respectable. Remember, as a PLD, you're taking a lot less dmg than a WAR. This means the health gained doesn't need to be as powerful on a point for point value to still be as effective.

Mercy Stroke - It's off the GCD, so, as has been stated, it's a little extra dmg when burning down an add or on the last 20% of a boss. Can be macro'd with fast blade so it's just automatic. I wouldn't worry about the heal, it's nearly impossible to time with having to worry about animations blocking other abilities.

Cure & Stoneskin - what else are you doing with your MP when tanking a single boss? As long as you have a solid threat lead, it's better than nothing, no? Do PLD get interrupted by regular attacks like other classes do? If so, that may be the one thing that warrants changing. As long as CNJ is a subclass of PLD, then I would think something like shield oath should allow uninterrupted casting to make use of those cross class abilities while tanking.

Stoneskin is by far my favorite cross class ability for PLD, not as good as WHM's 18% Graniteskin but 10% isn't bad in the right situation. It scales really well with the better gear you get, the more HP you're going to have, and the more Stoneskin is going to absorb.

If I'm solid on threat I take a look at the rest of the group, and if a mass damage aoe phase is coming up, I try and toss a Stoneskin on the healer or whoever needs it as a small buffer, or on myself of course. Another good use of it is if one of your two healers goes down, and you can provide yourself with a solid buffer for that 8 seconds you won't be getting heals, Stoneskin spam can work but you risk losing aggro if you neglect your enmity roation too much. Or you can Hallowed Ground > Stoneskin (since it wont get taken until hallowed wears off) > Convalescence > Cure spam in a tight situation.

your moaning about the marauder cross class abilities being shit, how do you think marauders feel about them?