SE - Bringing Dungeon EXP on par with Fate, will make better players :)

Many people have been dealing with bad players in the later/endgame instances. It is a common complaint I've seen both in game and on the forums. Although, you ofcourse have your trolls, people that truly can't think properly, and just plain bad gamers. Compounded on top of that, there is a multitude of people that just don't know how to play the game, their class, or even movement controls.

All of this is in direct correlation with the Fate Grinding that is going on. Grinding Fates is so mindless, that once a player reaches 50 and starts to do dungeons, they have no clue how to even play the game, let alone actually have to work with people and use tactics.

Gameplay aside, the ability to work together and communicate seems to be suffering. Players get to 50 without ever working with other people or taking advice. This leads to the unwarranted anger when someone is trying to help, ie: "hey buddy, during X part of X fight, you should do X" with a response of "dont tell me what to do".

Besides the above, Fates are mindlessly boring. I think many people enjoy your dungeons SE. However, do to how little EXP they award, people shun away from them. Personally, I'd grind all the way to 50 doing your dungeons if they were even close to on par with Fates.

Ok, thats my bored maintenance wall of text.

Discuss s(^_-)b

I would be on board with this, I think it makes sense. The dungeons in the game are great its just there is no incentive to run them right now if you're trying to level, and it would encourage people to play in a group environment where they're each required to work together to get through stuff.

If you ask me, as of right now dungeon exp is pretty poor. If they offered more experience it would break up the tediousness of spamming FATEs pretty well.

- Dungeon takes a really long time up until 2 hours
- Dungeon doesn't really give much incentive
- Dungeon bosses needs strategy to beat, randomly punching them won't do
- Dungeon needs a working group, 1 retard mess it up, whole team will fail the dungeon

- Fate is very fast, as fast as you take a piss
- Quick EXP, Seal, for such a short of time
- Strategy? NO, You just need to spam your attack buttons
- Doesn't even need one

I only did dungeons for the sake of main quest requirement. The rest are for tomestones. Dungeon is my ultimate gill sink, lost so many repairs fee...

I would agree that there should be more rewards period for running dungeons. I ran each dungeon exactly once when I was leveling up, and the experience was worthless - and the gear wasn't worth it either. So, I used FATEs to supplement my main storyline questing. Nowhere near as exciting, but dungeons didn't give me seals or exp - why bother ever running them again?

I feel the same way about end game - why not have the bosses in The Praetorium or Castrum drop loot, or provide larger amounts of gil? Why not throw seals into the mix? I'm not looking forward to running them constantly just to attain gear to progress into coil. Dungeons feel like they are just sort of tacked on in this game, with barely any conceivable storyline in them until the final two and the rewards just aren't up to par.

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Originally Posted by SenKoyo

I ran each dungeon exactly once when I was leveling up, and the experience was worthless - and the gear wasn't worth it either.

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If you had run 10 40+ dungeons from 40-50 you'd have had enough Philosophy stones to buy a Darklight accessory in preparation for end-game.

That's 10 dungeons in more than 3 million EXP it takes to go through that range.

That's...not really that much.

Totally agree, seems like a no-brainer to me. Buff dungeon exp and reduce fate exp by, say 5% - 10% and we'd be golden.

I love the dungeons. They are really well done but the exp you get for the effort is really bad. A few minutes of fates solo gets me more exp than 30-60minutes in a dungeon playing my character properly which is really odd.

It would also be nice if leves built allowances faster and provided a bit more exp... at least the battle leves.

IMO fates suck unless there is 16 or less people doing most of them. Other night Quarrymill area there was 140+ people level 20 to 30. That is insane and makes everything in the zone no fun.

EDIT: Would also be cool if they made it so Ifrit and Titan drop some stuff... I have to wonder how they think people are going to complete the story later on when very few people are left that need those fights.

Dungeons should give company seals, enough to make FATEs seem like a bad choice.

On my (now 17 after 2 Dungeons) 15 CNJ, i was getting 3k xp per Gold Rank at my level.
I get 500 xp per trash MOB kill in a dungeon.
Dungeon takes 30~ minutes or so to finish.
Dungeon provides me with loot to sell via MB or to wear and make the next run faster.

Skip to level 40 on my Monk while leveling that, at 40, FATE gave me 10k XP for Gold.
I get 950 xp per trash mob kill.
Dungeon takes 45~ Minutes to clear.
Dungeon provides me with loot to wear or sell, and Allegan currency.

FATEs are nice, but usually provide no better Experience per completion than a Sidequest. Dungeons are fine, FATEs are fine.

While I agree wholeheartedly with this post, I shudder to think how the duty finder / instance servers would react if people actually ran dungeons instead of fates.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

On my (now 17 after 2 Dungeons) 15 CNJ, i was getting 3k xp per Gold Rank at my level.
I get 500 xp per trash MOB kill in a dungeon.
Dungeon takes 30~ minutes or so to finish.
Dungeon provides me with loot to sell via MB or to wear and make the next run faster.

Skip to level 40 on my Monk while leveling that, at 40, FATE gave me 10k XP for Gold.
I get 950 xp per trash mob kill.
Dungeon takes 45~ Minutes to clear.
Dungeon provides me with loot to wear or sell, and Allegan currency.

FATEs are nice, but usually provide no better Experience per completion than a Sidequest. Dungeons are fine, FATEs are fine.

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Dungeons are only close to Fates if you have a group of people that know the instance and are good at their jobs. Anything else will be way behind.

I agree, more dungeon EXP would be nice, if nothing else it gives us an excuse to do more SB parties while also hunting for loot or w/e.

Suggestions for dungeon experience revamp:
1. Increase base mob experience by 50%.(may need to be tweaked, but a start)
2. The big chunk of exp you get at the end of the dungeon for completing it with a new person in the party? Just needs to happen by default.
3. Also increase boss experience by 50%(killing a boss should give you as much xp as completing a quest your level)
4. Add 1000 seals to the end of the dungeon.


I think that would be a great start, if not all it would take.

ALTHOUGH, why not increase your experience based on a percentage for how long you've been in queue? Maybe every 10 minutes you're in queue, your experience increase in the dungeon goes up 10%. I think that could help make up for the fact that a tank or healer can spam dungeons and level fast but a DPS cannot. Could be a shitty idea, but thought I'd atleast say it haha.

While I agree that FATE are far more rewarding that dungeons. I don't believe that bringing the exp/rewards up to par with FATE will fix the problem. FATE needs a nerf. I wouldn't really say this but what will bringing the dungeon exp up to par do?? Very little I'm afraid. Even then people would still run the FATE in to the ground because it's "just as good" while still being much easier. Which would still result in the "I'm 50 so I can do what I want!" mentality from those who have no idea what they're doing.
FATE, in my opinion should give you 1/4th of the reward that a dungeon does honestly. That's about how much commitment and time it takes in comparison, maybe even less.

I would not be against making dungeons EQUAL to fates. If you start nerfing fates and upping dungeons, then no one will want to do fates. You can't just nerf something and make people not want to do them. That is the problem now with dungeons. No one wants to do them so they do fates. Take dungeons and make them as good, EQUAL, to doing fates. So if someone has 2 hours to kill ingame, they can opt to do a dungeon because they have the time but if they only have 1/2 hour, they can do a fate and get the same amount of reward for the time spent.

The game should equal out for the time spent in the game doing stuff. Not nerf things down to where players shun them. I personally like fates and dungeons and would like to be able to use what time I have, long or short, in the game to the best the game has to offer. Leave fates alone and work on dungeons meeting the standards that fates give.

Dungeons could give seals and gil for each boss killed, like Fates do. Trash mobs could give gil so the money that is spent on repairs equal out. For a completed dungeon, give a bonus to seals and rate that bonus off of how quickly dungeon was cleared and if ALL mobs were killed. (this would stop the speed runs and skipping stuff people complain about)

Bump up the time allowed for 'quick complete' if 1 or more players are new to the dungeon, that would offset the more experienced runners as well as help them to be more helpful instead of jerks to players.

I agree. Minimize the fate exp to make it even with current dungeon exp. Or gimp both. Either way, it's way too easy to level in this game. It seems like everyone was lv50 in only a couple of weeks or less. Make it take 10x longer or more.

It will help. It won't fix the problem by any means.

It is, like in most of the other games FFXIV has faithfully copied, an inherent problem with allowing ease of leveling solo. You don't have to learn to play well because you can happily level up mostly solo except where forced to group, and then they hit end game not really knowing how to play worth anything. WoW, Rift, TOR, GW2, all of them have this problem, primarily because they provide a difficulty curve during the leveling process that ranges from flat to a very gentle slope.

Bringing dungeon exp up would help. But not very much. In all of those games, chaining dungeon runs was by far better experience than leveling solo, but an overwhelming portion of the playerbase did it solo anyway because easymode is what they're after. That's fine until you crank the difficulty up right at the end and suddenly end up with a ton of subpar players who can't pull their weight because they never learned how.

I kind of like FATEs, though I personally prefer doing quests. Because of the people I've encountered in this game (whom have the same behaviors as those from other MMOs known for their bad behavior) I have been reluctant to do dungeons. I intend to do enough for the main story if I cannot do them with FC-mates. Not to mention, I'm often waiting up to an hour or more as a DD.

But I don't see why they couldn't make leveling via dungeons an equally appealing option.

Why not the other direction?
Bring FATE exp on par with dungeon exp

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Originally Posted by Hed

While I agree that FATE are far more rewarding that dungeons. I don't believe that bringing the exp/rewards up to par with FATE will fix the problem. FATE needs a nerf. I wouldn't really say this but what will bringing the dungeon exp up to par do?? Very little I'm afraid. Even then people would still run the FATE in to the ground because it's "just as good" while still being much easier. Which would still result in the "I'm 50 so I can do what I want!" mentality from those who have no idea what they're doing.
FATE, in my opinion should give you 1/4th of the reward that a dungeon does honestly. That's about how much commitment and time it takes in comparison, maybe even less.

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Oh god please no, it would make leveling alts (especially for DPS classes due to the time needed to find a group) a nightmare.

Leveling alts is boring atm but at least it is fast with fates.

Make dungeons the honey pot. BOOM, players. Simplistic? Sure, but sometimes simple is the best way to go.

i would love this since dungeons are my favorite part of the game by far. but i seem to not do them much because fates give you faster XP

Fate XP needs to be nerfed hard and dungeon XP needs to be buffed hard.

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Originally Posted by Selyndria

While I agree wholeheartedly with this post, I shudder to think how the duty finder / instance servers would react if people actually ran dungeons instead of fates.

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Spontaneous combustion is what comes to mind. It's very clear that for whatever reason, XIV's servers are just not as powerful as they should be(hello log-in throttle after maint).

if only SE knew that increasing dungeon completion exp would drastically improve the replay rate of them....

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Originally Posted by Selyndria

While I agree wholeheartedly with this post, I shudder to think how the duty finder / instance servers would react if people actually ran dungeons instead of fates.

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I think it is the issue of Dungeons not provide a equal incentive to run them after you get your first lvl 50 class.

What Dungeon needs are exp completion boost like how FATEs get a +50% exp completion boost once you get your first lvl 50 for any class not level 50 yet.

Battlefield leves are another issue that loses value after you get your first level 50 because they don't obtain exp bonuses like FATE does as well once you get your first level 50 class.

It seems SE currently design the game over the ideal that if you want to level another class after your first level 50 class you must use FATEs and Hunting log.

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Originally Posted by shumakiso

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i don't think you thought this through. if people are 50 and doing the dungeons at 50.... they didn't skip any dungeons or story quests, because it's not possible. fate's arent causing bad players, bad players are in every MMO regardless of what devs try to do. this game is better than most at trying to teach bad players how to play through guildhests and certain quests/dungeons, but their help can only go so far.

I just don't understand how this opinion of people completely skipping everything and doing FATES started. you pretty much HAVE to do the story quest in this game or you cant access most of the content. new, unskilled players aren't joining this game, and going... "HEY! i need to get to max level ASAP and grind fates!" ... in fact, the thought probably doesn't occur to them. they're busy doing the story and other activities. most of the people grinding fates are either people who ARE already experienced with MMO's and want to level quickly when story quests/sidequests dry up (which happens very frequently during the leveling process), or they're leveling additional classes.

the only problem right now is that battle leves and dungeons don't give enough EXP for additional classes. FATEs are the only thing that were actually tuned well, EXP-wise. FATEs don't need any nerfs, the other methods need buffs -- a lot of players don't want to spam dungeons or are DPS and are going to have long queues no matter what -- it isn't fair to them to buff dungeons and nerf FATEs.

I disagree with bumping up XP to be on par with XP gain from Fates.

The current design on the Fate system is taking in to account the amount of players doing them, therefor, the Fates are not a challenge when the Fate itself lasts no longer then 1 - 2 mins at times and you can barely get a skill off to land contribution.

What they need to do is scale the NPC's that spawn from the fate ethier based of how many PC's are inside the Fate Zone area OR the overall Zone itself for that Level range as some zones have different level limits in them, i.e. Central Shroud. Scaling the NPC's will increase thier overall HP and Damage output, but the reward will still be the same. Therefor they take longer to complete and will require coordination, healers to actually heal and Tanks to actually tank.

This will make them a challenge and not a rush fest.

Solo content should never be faster to level or do anything in a MMO than group content. No exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Solo content should never be faster to level or do anything in a MMO than group content. No exceptions.

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Thats a good thing you cant solo a fate then I guess?

yeah!! lets grind dungeons to 50 then grind more when we're actually at 50 sounds like a blast :P

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Originally Posted by Taemek

Thats a good thing you cant solo a fate then I guess?

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You appear to be unaware that most of the FATEs are in fact soloable.

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Originally Posted by Stormsoul

i don't think you thought this through. if people are 50 and doing the dungeons at 50.... they didn't skip any dungeons or story quests, because it's not possible. fate's arent causing bad players, bad players are in every MMO regardless of what devs try to do.

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Yes and no. The first character/class will have gone through the guildhest/dungeons and thus 'learnt', but given that FATEs are essentially the only way to level up subclasses, what happens when DPS decide to level tanks or healers? They do it through FATEs, meaning they don't get the experience or actually learn their role like they would through guildhests/dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Taemek

The current design on the Fate system isn't taking in to account the amount of players doing them.

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This is the issue with FATEs. They were likely designed for a dozen or so players to actually work at, not 3-5 dozen players. The 15 minute timer becomes pointless because the FATE is completed in less than a minute. They need to input a dynamic system that scales health (damage?) depending on the players present. If a 15 minute FATE took 10 minutes with 12 players, and also took 8-10 minutes with 50-60 players, it wouldn't be 'as fast', or perceived at the only way to efficiently level, and dungeons would certainly be more attractive.

Incidentally I was in Quarrymill to do some of my own FATE grinding, and there were so many people zerging from FATE to FATE that you couldn't even see the mobs spawn. You'd literally just spam your AoE skills and hope for the best.

You can heal wounds, you can cure diseases, you can raise the dead, but never will you be able to cure people of stupid.

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Originally Posted by Austin

yeah!! lets grind dungeons to 50 then grind more when we're actually at 50 sounds like a blast :P

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Some of us do think its fun :) Wouldn't hurt anyone that doesn't like doing them lol