World scale lost to too-convenient travel?

Teleportation for all, fade to black airship/ferry rides. The scale of Eorzea is lost. It's akin to the shrinking effect flying mounts had on other online games but even more pronounced. It also removes the need for the player to comprehend the geography of the game world when they can simply select their destination from a list.

I am enjoying this game, and as a 1.0 player I am already beyond the awe anyway. But for players new to XIV, players new to MMOs, I'm sad to think they will miss out on that experience of scale and conquest.

I chocobo everywhere. Rarely do I use a teleport.

If people want to spend their gil getting around faster, let them. I'll continue to take my time and enjoy the scenery.

In terms of design, it boiled down to scale vs variety. It's true there was something really endearing about the vastness of old Eorzea, even with its repeated terrain, but we gained a more engaging world to discover.

For travel, I do think it's a bit overly simple to just be able to appear at any place at any time as it does cheapen the invaluable appeal of a journey. Hopefully the future will bring more challenging zones with a wider scope, but there is no way they would remove a convenience to the community. People hate it when their conveniences are removed.


God damn it I miss old Coerthas.

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/7/f/7f6...8cf6e1ecc2.jpg
http://www.axiomfiles.com/Files/4809...1287440401.jpg

As a player new to 2.0 I'm not too worried. FFXIV is the first MMO where I've really enjoyed just traveling from one place to another and the time required for that is balanced just right I think. By Chocobo nothing is too near or too far, but then I don't teleport much at all.

Teleporting makes you poor. I think the trade-off is perfect as-is. You can either make your life convenient and keep staying poor, or you can be the Scrooge Mcduck of your server and chocobo it up.

I do both. Sometimes I teleport, sometimes I Unicorn/Chocobo it. :P I'm cheap and don't like spending my gil as much anyway. :P

I do a lot of Chocobo Portering. And as you get into areas like Coerthas or the far distances of Noseca, it starts to feel a long way.

Not at all like FFXI of course, but I suspect most won't want that anyways.

the world is still pretty big, if you walk it. Teleporting costs gil, and with that cost comes the possibility of not having enough left after a big purchase to be able to. I personally only have a couple of waypost aetherites favourited to lower their cost and i'll chocobo from those to my destinations.

I'm inclined to agree with the OP; Eorzea *can* seem smaller in scale at times. But I grew up on FFXI, and in the earlier days (before teleport NPCs) traveling could be a very time-consuming activity in a game that already put huge demands on your time as it was. Personally, I kinda miss the old way. Waiting at the airship docks for the next flight to Jeuno, fishing on the ferry to Selbina, using my less-then-stellar-at-solo-farming-whm to sell tele-taxi services...

It made for a more immersive experience when you got the sense that the airships would follow their schedule whether or not you were there to hop on. The world wasn't there for *you* - you were just one of a thousand travelers in it.

Sure, I'm a cheap/broke player who is perpetually low on cash - so I choco/return/airship for my traveling needs. I have yet to buy a teleport, so I don't really feel like Eorzea is *small* per se - but like I said - sometimes less immersive.

I am one of those ones that spend all their gil on teleporting. I love it. :3 I got stacks on stacks on stacks

The only teleport I use is the free recall to Lima Lominsa :D

Totally agree with this, however it matches the fast-paced nature of 2.0 just fine. Personally I'd love a world where I can live in, where travels take time, with less focus on simply rushing to endgame and farming stuff. I feel that 1.0 was closer to that ideal :(

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Originally Posted by Gramul

In terms of design, it boiled down to scale vs variety. It's true there was something really endearing about the vastness of old Eorzea, even with its repeated terrain, but we gained a more engaging world to discover.

For travel, I do think it's a bit overly simple to just be able to appear at any place at any time as it does cheapen the invaluable appeal of a journey. Hopefully the future will bring more challenging zones with a wider scope, but there is no way they would remove a convenience to the community. People hate it when their conveniences are removed.


God damn it I miss old Coerthas.

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/7/f/7f6...8cf6e1ecc2.jpg
http://www.axiomfiles.com/Files/4809...1287440401.jpg

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I can never seem to disagree with this guy, ever.

God damn it, where's my pretty, green, and humongous Coerthas? Where's my Miller's Glade or Riversmeet? WHERE'S MY DOWNY DUNSTAN!? :/

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Not at all like FFXI of course, but I suspect most won't want that anyways.

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But that was the best part. The first time braving the long and dangerous journey to a new town. That satisfaction of entering Juno. Finally getting your chocobo and making travel a breeze. Yeah there probably should have been shortcuts for more experienced players, but the first journeys where always something special. Something I haven't seen repeated in any other game sense.

Rule of thumb= If you teleport too much you'll be broke ( eventually). Either that or you'll never see the rich life :P.

I have a few friends that talk about missing the old travel. I on the other hand prefer to get where I'm going. I don't explore the real world, if I can take a plane over a car, done any day of the week. If I can teleport, take a porter or airship there... I'm all about it.

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Originally Posted by Roci

I have a few friends that talk about missing the old travel. I on the other hand prefer to get where I'm going. I don't explore the real world, if I can take a plane over a car, done any day of the week. If I can teleport, take a porter or airship there... I'm all about it.

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But don't we play fantasy games because the real world isn't as cool? ;)

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Originally Posted by DeafMuteSpy

Teleportation for all, fade to black airship/ferry rides. The scale of Eorzea is lost. It's akin to the shrinking effect flying mounts had on other online games but even more pronounced. It also removes the need for the player to comprehend the geography of the game world when they can simply select their destination from a list.

I am enjoying this game, and as a 1.0 player I am already beyond the awe anyway. But for players new to XIV, players new to MMOs, I'm sad to think they will miss out on that experience of scale and conquest.

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I dunno about you, but I ride around on my chocobo and my coeurl all the time, sometimes from one end of the Twelveswood to the other. Set out from Ul'dah to get to Bluefog? Easy-peasy.

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Originally Posted by Balaur

I dunno about you, but I ride around on my chocobo and my coeurl all the time, sometimes from one end of the Twelveswood to the other. Set out from Ul'dah to get to Bluefog? Easy-peasy.

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Well I just wish you and I could ride a boat together!

I will beat this drum til the cows come home, but XIV's maps do feel claustrophobic and strangely disconnected. This is the result of a few things:

1. Many maps are simply a series of winding canyons funneling you from one direction to another. I mean, look at these: http://home.comcast.net/~nakomaru/ffmaps/ - See how most of them (focus on the non-dungeon maps) are just twisty-turny paths with a few "bulges" every so often? And those are just the first three main zones. Coerthas and Mor Dhona and such are no different. The result is a restrictive world with very little opportunity for exploration.

2. Excessive invisible walls. Want to try and scale that hill? Nope, invisible wall. Want to wade into that water? Nope, invisible wall. What's on top of this wall? Invisible wall! Or up this cliff which looks totally climbable? Invisible wall!

3. The camera itself does not allow you to pan directly up. This is absolutely infuriating to me when I'm trying to get a look at an area and I cannot see what is directly above me. I have no idea why this camera restriction is in place; it seems completely arbitrary.

4. The zone transitions are completely discontinuous. I can be traveling through a canyon (ah yes, the many canyons of Eorzea!), heading towards what looks like great swaths of mountains, and then I hit a loading screen. When I pop out, suddenly I'm in the middle of a jungle. What happened? Why can't I explore those mountains? Why is 90% of the world seemingly cut off from me? Not only is this horribly disappointing from an exploration standpoint, but it cause great amounts of disorientation for me when trying to learn my way around the world.

So yeah, it's not just a matter of the zones being scaled down - it's a combination of a number of things. And it's very depressing. :(

It was their compromise to give each area and zone a better and more unique atmosphere... Rather than a giant endless zone that looked almost the same from one corner to another, we now have many small zones that all look and feel different.

Obviously the best would be giant endless zones with constantly changing scenery, but that is a technical challenge.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

God damn it I miss old Coerthas.

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/7/f/7f6...8cf6e1ecc2.jpg
http://www.axiomfiles.com/Files/4809...1287440401.jpg

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Totally agree.

Mor-Dhona is fine as one zone, but the fact that Coerthas is 1/5th of it's formal size (and rather bland) makes me very sad. :(

It should have been at least 2 zones, the South-East like the old Coerthas, and the North-West more like the concept art

Where's the 'community in the crack'? Or the waterfall dungeon? (maybe still coming?) Also, the "Ixali main base" is pretty much old Natalan with a few fences moved. :/

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/5...3d119d469a.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gramul

-lots of things I completely agree with-

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Oh Gram, I think we all miss old Coerthas. It was massive, it was beautiful, and the music was the most pleasant I have ever heard. I would have lived in that zone.

New Coerthas, by and large, is a disappointment in comparison. Not every game needs a Xarcabard.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

2. Excessive invisible walls. Want to try and scale that hill? Nope, invisible wall. Want to wade into that water? Nope, invisible wall. What's on top of this wall? Invisible wall! Or up this cliff which looks totally climbable? Invisible wall!

4. The zone transitions are completely discontinuous. I can be traveling through a canyon (ah yes, the many canyons of Eorzea!), heading towards what looks like great swaths of mountains, and then I hit a loading screen. When I pop out, suddenly I'm in the middle of a jungle. What happened? Why can't I explore those mountains? Why is 90% of the world seemingly cut off from me? Not only is this horribly disappointing from an exploration standpoint, but it cause great amounts of disorientation for me when trying to learn my way around the world.

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I agree with your post, but I especially agree with two and four. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled by the completely open worlds in games like Skyrim where if you can see it, you can go there, but if I am disappointed in anything with this game, the limited open world interaction and often incongruous zone changes are definitely a little bit of a letdown. I can and do live with it just fine, but I can't say that I wouldn't have liked to see more in that respect.

That being said, I really do enjoy trekking and fighting from Gridania to Ul'Dah on foot.

The game world feels small regardless, if you're familiar with other MMOs. Largely because it is. Hopefully the content patches will fix that.

Just for reference.. NEW Coerthas vs Old (Natalan is the same in both)

http://i.imgur.com/haQOSVg.jpg

It's too bad that we are restricted to just Central Coerthas in ARR. Hopefully, they'll add to it soon (although I wouldn't be surprised if they moved on to making entirely new zones altogether).

The maps are a lot smaller. While I like it because starting out the last thing you want to do is run everywhere, but as the game allows you to teleport, airship and chocobo the game does shrink dramatically.

I personally liked the old maps from 1.0 more, I didn't uncover all of it, but it just had a lot more dimension and depth to it. So travel has trivialized it a bit but it happens in every game, you just feel it more in 14.

{Teleport-Mea} {Do You Need It?} 1000 gil {/tell}

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Originally Posted by Gramul

But that was the best part. The first time braving the long and dangerous journey to a new town. That satisfaction of entering Juno. Finally getting your chocobo and making travel a breeze. Yeah there probably should have been shortcuts for more experienced players, but the first journeys where always something special. Something I haven't seen repeated in any other game sense.

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To be fair, it's not like you can warp to every crystal at the start of the game. The big difference in my opinion, is how early Airships are introduced compared to FFXI.

I think there are many differences that contribute, but I think warping (without a BLM) would have been very welcome for most people playing FFXI :P Let's be realistic, traveling to Jeuno for the 167th time, wasn't fun or exciting. After a while, you just wanted to get to your destination. I will agree though, that it made the world seem massive in comparison, which was awesome.

I would like to see FFXIV's airships/boats remade to what FFXI was like. Arrival/Departure times. Travel time with chance of getting invaded by mobs. etc. It made for exciting, unpredictable journey's. Then again, SE wants this game to be popular, and low levels dying on boats would discourage a lot of people in the WoW-era of MMO's.

Lost to too-convenient travel and zones that are ridiculously small.

There is some truth in this.
I agree. Even though I cannot deny it is convenient it does take some fu out of the game

I really miss the long boat rides from Juneo to selbina and muhara etc. and the air ships to the major city. I loved the fact that it FELT like we were traveling a great distance because we interacted within the ships. Lots of good social time, crafting, ark potty, being silly emoting, working on macros, skilling up, battle skeletons, look at the land... I miss it. I do not like being able to travel from the cities to another in less than 30 seconds...just feels like ONE big CITY... Now.

I miss the dangerous journey to new lands that take a long time to get to for the first time as well. Sure keep the teleporting because it will be used sparingly or go broke, and it also gets you to those far journey spots faster after we have been there once. These are things that I wish translated over from XI.

Anyways...I wish Eorzea felt bigger too.

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Originally Posted by Seraphi

To be fair, it's not like you can warp to every crystal at the start of the game.

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True. But its not exactly a challenge to get to them.