Vote to kick from DF~

Anyone else think that there should be a voting system that allows the majority of players to vote a member out of their Duty Finder groups? I understand that in some cases it will be abused, but currently there are even more people abusing the anonymity of DF for their own personal amusement.

A few examples that come to mind are; last night, I joined a CM run via duty finder, one of the blms we were partied with said "Alright guys, gl and good night" and went afk right off the bat. Just about an hour ago, I was partied with a WHM, and granted we had some new players, he became infuriated that the cannons were all destroyed by the Colossus and decided to bad mouth the entire party, and /sit while we all fought the mobs and watched as our scholar died.

I love this game and the majority of the community in it, but people like this really ruin it for everyone... I understand it's "lolDF" and I'm sure I'll get responses like "Make a server party", but that shouldn't mean we have to deal with assholes like this on a daily basis. With a vote to kick system maybe these people will think before they start acting like douche bags in the middle of a run.

It would be a nice feature if it wouldn't be abused a lot.
And it really would be abused a LOT.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

It would be a nice feature if it wouldn't be abused a lot.
And it really would be abused a LOT.

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On what basis do you claim that, other than a personal prediction of the future (a.k.a "subjective opinion") without facts to back it up?

Many MMORPGs have this feature and no, it doesn't get abused a lot. Very little, in fact.

This is a dire issue.

As I said already on these forums, for 7 people to have to wait for 30+ minutes to complete the Praetorium (in the very last seconds!) because a player suddenly chooses to grief others who "lost his time watching cutscenes" is not acceptable.

Especially when, after report, SE mails us back to tell us that "they cannot sanction a player who goes AFK and the only solution is to exit the instance and queue for it again", even if we were, at that point, just waiting to enter the last boss battle. Or accept that a player may enter Castrum and do nothing for the whole time, just waiting for the 7 others to complete the instance, and still get the points. I won't participate in such a joke of "forced collaboration".

Edit: I'll make that anecdote clearer. We were 8 people, most of us OK to allow people to watch cutscenes, but 1 (a WHM) wasn't OK (he said something like "DON'T LOSE MY TIME WATCHING YOUR CUTSCENES, EVER!" (loose quote from memory). At the end, just before the last boss, he went AKF for 30+ minutes, so we couldn't complete that fight. We had to wait for more than half an hour for him to come back. We all reported him. SE replied to us by mail saying that this player's behavior was fine, that they cannot sanction people being AFK in dongeons, and that all we could do was leave the instance and do it again. All for 1 player blocking 7 others because we wouldn't skip cutscenes.

Edit: I'll my definitions clearer, as well.
Griefer: in this case, someone who would, for instance, tell others not to watch cutscenes. This is not acceptable, people have the right to experience the game as planned by the development team.
Leecher: in this case, someone who would enter a dungeon, then go AFK from the beginning to the end, letting others complete objectives, and eventually get the tomes without doing anything.

As it stands, griefers and leechers always have their way, and SE basically says that these are acceptable behaviors that they won't sanction. Well I, for one, wish they at least gave us the means to have some form of control over our teams.

Short of any solution to such kinds of issues, (nice) people will slowly avoid Duty Finder more and more, and this valuable tool will go to waste, abandoned, void of all voluntary, good-minded people. Which would be very sad for players without a Free Company. But I personally can't accept to be slapped by griefers, be told by the authority (SE) that "it's alright", and then be expected to offer the other cheek to be slapped again.

So until we get a kick feature, or SE at least acknowledges that griefers and leechers need to be sanctioned in some way or another, me and my shield will avoid the duty finder like the plague it's-- unfortunately but predictably so-- much too often turning out to be. Not sanctioning griefers and leechers, letting them act in total impunity, will only encourage abusive behavior more and more. Don't expect me to be a voluntary victim.

And don't even start me on insults and in-fight leavers, these basically ruin my pleasure when playing this game. I hope someone saying "STFU", or willingly leaving during a boss fight gets sanctioned somehow (if they in fact just keep on playing when outside, not talking about real life emergencies of course). But I'm worried impunity is beginning to be pattern, here.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

Short of any solution to such kinds of issues, (nice) people will slowly avoid Duty Finder more and more, and this valuable tool will go to waste, abandoned, void of all voluntary, good-minded people.

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This is the ultimate result if the system remains as it is. I now only do DF with a full guild group or a premade group from my own server. The risk is just too great to do it any other way.

where did you get that cool sunglasses?

Dungeon A is most easily Run with WAR/BRD/BRD/SCH. A party gets cued as WAR/MNK/LNC/SCH. Do you really not think there wouldn't be WAR's/SCH's that wouldn't boot the DD's until they got the 'ideal' set?

Or tanks (because they are the most indemand) could be even bigger bullies than they already are. DPS would be further victimized. DPS dies on first attempt, kick him get a new one. Then he doesn't learn the dungeon,gets put all the way to the back of the cue, and the rest of the party moves on,even if it wasn't his fault.


DF parties can be short enough with each other...some people are kind but others aren't. If you wish to cue with a Pick-UP Group, and the group is 'less than ideal' YOU should be the one penalized for leaving...not them. So the current '15 minute cool-down for leaving a party should be good enough' At least it makes you think 'Is it worth just sticking this group out and helping them improve...or is my time better spent leaving and recuing?'

TL/DR: You want to be able to select the talent level/specific people/roles of your group...don't use DF

I don't mind, with the following vote thresholds:

All three other players in a 4 man.
6 players in an 8 man.
20 players in a 24 man.
Kicking only allowed when party is full and no one has enmity on any enemy, to prevent the below fear from being realized-

I do fear that people would start vote kicking people just before bosses die etc to get the loot.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

because a player suddenly chooses to grief others who "lost his time watching cutscenes" is not acceptable.

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the player pay the money just like you, they have the right to watch the cut screen when do Castrum or praetorium for their first time, "watch it in inn" is not a acceptable excusse, it is an option ppl can choose to do it or not.

while I disagree with the watch cs, I do agree with the afker, we once had an afker in castrum who stand and do nothing while the 7 of us do the work.

For encounter this I rather have another report ingame system, or can use the same one as harrasement and SE can check the log and punisher the player by not let him/her join DF for a long period.

The vote kick can be easy abuse, you can kick ppl you dont like, you can kick ppl who doesnt have the gear you want, and you can kick ppl because you can and it is not trackable by any kind

I vote no on a kick feature. It's been my experience in other MMO's that this gets abused. SE has said they plan to put in a feature to allow you to join a DF from your own server. That alone can cut down on the general asshatery with a server can police it's own. You can't swing a dead cat on these servers without hitting someone. Join others that play when you do. Form a static to accomplish your goals. If you want to play with random complete strangers.. be prepared to experience undesirables from time to time.

the trouble it's the abuse will be there.. let's take CM by example, people want to speedrun it, a new player do it for the first time and look a CS... kick...
and any dungeon that people run for them.... token... will be like this, if the people think that the player is not gear enough or is a new player... kick...

before put the vote for kick... it will be a nessecity to work on the mentality that is making the game horrible recently. speedrunner, elitist,...
indeed is not bad if they was not often leading to harassement and trashtalking!

Yoshida have made this game for allows new player to enjoy too the game... the trouble is the old player (not all) are making the experience horrible...
i think SE need to take position and make thing stop before it become too bad.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

the player pay the money just like you, they have the right to watch the cut screen when do Castrum or praetorium for their first time, "watch it in inn" is not a acceptable excusse

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The vote kick can be easy abuse, you can kick ppl you dont like, you can kick ppl who doesnt have the gear you want, and you can kick ppl because you can and it is not trackable by any kind

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If it requires a unanimity vote to kick (3/4 or 7/8), then no it can't be abused that much. In all MMORPGs I have played for 10+ years, it simply isn't, this is a fact. And I hope you weren't addressing these remarks to me personally, because I always welcome others to watch cutscenes in Castrum or Praetorium, so happy to share with them their first time completing the storyline. I, in fact, use that time to write the strat for the next boss so they can both watch the cutscene and then be informed of everything they need to know. With smileys on top of it, mind you.

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Originally Posted by Mags

If you want to play with random complete strangers.. be prepared to experience undesirables from time to time.

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This is sad. But at least, even if we don't have a kick feature, can at least SE act on reports we make about griefers, leechers, and so on? Currently, they reply to our reports with a "it's alright" mail. Put in other words, SE condones such behaviors.

I think kicking for watching cutscenes would be really unacceptable. With rare exception, there is no harm to the party if people watch the cutscenes, pretty much all dungeons have a generous time limit.

The cutscenes are more enjoyable and make more sense when viewed in the context of the content they belong to.. I think you lose that when you view them from your inn room.

If you want to hate on people for viewing cutscenes, then form your own party full of people who will skip them.

YES!!!

Last day, we had a tank that said he was watching a football game... so he started to autofollow the summoner... and said that I since I had titan egi... I didnt even needed him...
He made us solo the dungeon until the boss.
I admit when he did that we raged at him... later at the boss he said he wouldnt even move.. unless the whole party apologized to him, and if we wanted to finish the dungeon we needed to apologized to him....

Horrible experience... I made a ticket to report that guy...

But yes we do need this feature now...

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Originally Posted by Reezy

This is the ultimate result if the system remains as it is. I now only do DF with a full guild group or a premade group from my own server. The risk is just too great to do it any other way.

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This is exactly what I'm talking about. Duty Finder will become ghost town if no discipline is applicable to these random groups, not by us nor by SE.

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Originally Posted by Arlekiel

YES!!!

Last day, we had a tank that said he was watching a football game... so he started to autofollow the summoner... and said that I since I had titan egi... I didnt even needed him...
He made us solo the dungeon until the boss.
I admit when he did that we raged at him... later at the boss he said he wouldnt even move.. unless the whole party apologized to him, and if we wanted to finish the dungeon we needed to apologized to him....

Horrible experience... I made a ticket to report that guy...

But yes we do need this feature now...

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In my experience, SE says "it's OK, if you don't agree with a player being AFK, you have to leave the dungeon and do it again". How sad is that for an answer on their part?

People actually believe a Vote-Kick will solve asshole behavior?

Also, when did a tank/healer last join your group on a leaver queue? This is just going to make DPS even more marginalized.

If this gets implemented I'm just gonna start every dungeon with: "Hello - I am your DPS/DD Slave. Please have mercy on me. Thanks :)"

I've had grief from others because I am a Lalafell tank. I've seen troll tanks when on another class too. Trust me when I say this isn't a solution, but only adds to the issue. The issue is no one wants to be part of a community anymore.

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Originally Posted by Mags

I've had grief from others because I am a Lalafell tank. I've seen troll tanks when on another class too. Trust me when I say this isn't a solution, but only adds to the issue. The issue is no one wants to be part of a community anymore.

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I hear you. You're probably somewhat right about that last sentence.

But in the end, I come across 9 people out of 10 who are perfectly fine, nice and everything. It's only a small part of the player base who's behaving like spoiled kids do. I'm pretty sure AFK'ers would stop doing it if they got kicked all the time, for instance. Of course, there would need to be a few restrictions (qualified majority votes, and at least 5-10 minutes into the dungeon before kick becomes available for instance), but based on other MMORPGs I've played, the kicking feature just works 99% of the time to deter griefing/leeching behaviors.

It's the whole point of it: after being sanctioned by other players a few times, these people just stop doing that, for fear of not being able to complete a dungeon, ever, should they keep on trying to leech or grief other players. For instance, in my many years of WoW, I got kicked only once. It was a clear case of abuse by a group of 4 other people who just didn't like my playstyle, but nevertheless I prefer that to dozens of bad runs due to AFK'ers or griefers that we wouldn't have been able to kick.

In my 10+ years of experience of many a MMORPG with such a kicking system, if properly implemented, the benefits largely outweigh the downsides.

I think the main thing we can all agree on is that Square Enix needs to actually act on these behaviors. A kick function wouldn't be needed if this game actually had a team of game masters, but as far as I can see, I haven't heard of a single one actually handling issues like this.

I know the GMs in XI were boarder line useless, but I did have many cases where they actually did show up and they actually did do their job, I've yet to hear of a single case where a GM stepped in and handled harassment in this game. Hell I haven't heard of anyone even being sent to GM Jail since release.

so there is nothing to stop 3 people who skip CS from booting someone who refuses to? no thanks.

As far as DF becoming a ghost town? Good. The DF has brought exactly the kind of dickish community that the people originally against it (I was not one of those) said it would. People being childish and spiteful because they know it won't affect their standing in the community, which itself isn't important anymore.

Death to DF means life for server communities.

I'll support a kick function.

I almost didn't get to see the end of the main storyline because of a WHM that chose to sit down and do nothing after our first wipe on Ultima Weapon. Reason? Because he got mad that one of the DPS told him to quit spamming Medica as it was generating a ton of aggro. We lost tank #1 (I was tank #2) and a rep joined up but the WHM still chose to not do anything. A miracle and a truly epic SCH got us through that all the way to the end, all the while people in the group tried to reason with the stupid WHM who still chose to do nothing. We could have at least searched for a healer after kicking that leech off the group, but lo and behold we had no "vote to kick option".

According to the German Rep. Sasunaich, the dev Team is already working on a Group vote to kick in DF
I can copy the text once i get home

I vote No for a kick feature in DF due to the simple fact that there are too many trolls and elitist jerks who think that everyone else should bend to their will in a party or leave and re-queue.

Those self-absorbed jerks need to get it through their heads that if they want a party that will listen strictly to how they want it to go, they need to pre-form their own party or deal with the randomness of PUGing and get over it. If a vote feature was added, it would be abused without a doubt for the very reason listed previously.

Personally, I am looking forward to the bulletin board feature possibly coming that I have been hearing rumors about lately. I have never supported cross-server group finders due to the sheer amount of the abuse of anonymity carried out as a result.

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

According to the German Rep. Sasunaich, the dev Team is already working on a Group vote to kick in DF
I can copy the text once i get home

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That would be great and much appreciated, can rest easy knowing that the AFKers and trolls will come to an end as far as leechers are concerned. I'm aware that there will be other forms of abuse, but this shouldn't be too big of a problem as long as it's a majority vote system, meaning even if you have one person bitching and moaning about how he doesn't like your play style, that means the other 6 party members would have to agree. Unless it's a FC/LS that just picked up a random, I don't think it should raise too many issues, it will bring some, but not anywhere near the current quantity of problems that the current system has.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

On what basis do you claim that, other than a personal prediction of the future (a.k.a "subjective opinion") without facts to back it up?

Many MMORPGs have this feature and no, it doesn't get abused a lot. Very little, in fact.

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And on which games to you place YOUR evidence? Don't vomit a bunch of nonsense if you call someone out for facts and have none to give your own.

NOOOO! Some people need to learn :D give it a minute!!! I wouldn 't mind a kick vote for someone who has been idle for 5 minutes or longer! Yup. :)

I don't know why ppl think it's just a vote kick without limitation, it's stupid to think it's going to be that way, there are some measures taken when designing such feature, like you can't vote kick more than once per dungeon, a hidden vote kick CD per player, lessen the power of premade vote kick (1:3)..etc

it's incredibly stupid to think there won't be any countermeasures for abuse, unless of course you are basing your judgement on SE and their horrible history of implementing features in games "their way..." like I dunno, DF with no vote kick?, answers always on "No" on a transportation feature with high usage frequency?, no "add to ignore" because of shit happen?

I think the vote kick system will be implemented so horribly, ppl will stop using DF altogether! (when in reality they will actually quit the game, I just wanted to put a rainbow fantasy fanboi result so everyone can understand me).

I like how people say it won't be abused and a vote count will help. On WoW I was kicked many times for being new to a heroic dungeon by a guild which had majority. It would happen in FFXIV too. Don't be naive. Abuse will always happen.

I think this wil mean that many people will be cut off the endgame content. I already see some people saying this : SKIP YOUR CUTSCENE OR WE WILL VOTE !

"hi guys! I'm new to titan HM is there anything I should kno-" You have now entered a sanctuary "goddamnit"

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

where did you get that cool sunglasses?

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Garlond Goggles? It was obtainable when you bought FFXIV 1.0.