IMO, Titan HM is the most poorly planned progression point in the game right now

Reasons

1) No incentive to re-run it. Once you beat Titan HM you're done. You probably have advanced your relic quest to this point by now and thus Titan's drops mean nothing to you. You no longer have to care because Titan's drops are outclassed in every way by Relic.

2) The duty finder set-up for it demands perfect gear from DPS, the second tank has no responsibilities like they do in Ifrit or Garuda and are just chaff that inhibits the potential ability to win. Also add in the above point where you basically wind up with a situation where nobody in your duty finder group will have cleared the fight in all likelihood. You wind up in this Loser-Hell with all the people who are effectively brickwalled by the fight.

The result? A fight nobody wants to do unless they need it still and close to literal inability to progress through it in duty finder in most cases. Yeah, I'm bitter.

You're right in saying that having a second tank is a complete waste of DPS and it servers no purpose. I have no clue what they were thinking, especially since the fight from the heart onwards is a DPS check.

However, I find the first point to be wrong. First, you get a relic for one job out of 9. The other 8 jobs would still benefit greatly from a Titan weapon. The drops are far from useless.

I completely agree with this. To think I have been grinding him for 4 days now hours at a time just to get my relic. No one cares what he drops which is good because he is too hard for multi-runs. I play a scholar in a solid 8 man group but I've given up. There's no place for a scholar in that fight so I probably wont be getting my relic. I may as well go and re-roll a WHM abandon my scholar relic quest and start again. No one wants to take in scholars.

he is right in saying the weapons are pointless. They have the same item level as Garuda - an easily farmable fight. In fact due to her poor scholar book drop I had to run her close to 50 times and have 5 of her weapons.
Titan was introduced in to the game too early. The skill level required is on a completely different level to Garuda. I'm bored. All we do all night is throw ourselves at titan and hope that all 8 people can avoid the several boring insta-death skills. There needs to be something else to do between Garuda and Titan.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

You're right in saying that having a second tank is a complete waste of DPS and it servers no purpose. I have no clue what they were thinking, especially since the fight from the heart onwards is a DPS check.

However, I find the first point to be wrong. First, you get a relic for one job out of 9. The other 8 jobs would still benefit greatly from a Titan weapon. The drops are far from useless.

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You can do the relic quest for all 9 jobs, so by the time your second job is able to fight Titan properly you've likely advanced the quest that far again. His point is very correct and valid. Titan HM is the single worst progression fight I've ever seen in any mmo.

You can still help your friends pass it. ;3

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Originally Posted by Eccho

he is right in saying the weapons are pointless. They have the same item level as Garuda - an easily farmable fight. In fact due to her poor scholar book drop I had to run her close to 50 times and have 5 of her weapons.
Titan was introduced in to the game too early. The skill level required is on a completely different level to Garuda. I'm bored. All we do all night is throw ourselves at titan and hope that all 8 people can avoid the several boring insta-death skills. There needs to be something else to do between Garuda and Titan.

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The mechanics are from insta death if you are not under geared. Remember, Titan is a ilvl 80 fight, so you should have mostly ilvl 70 gear when you fight him, and if you do, even as a dps bombs nor weight will one shot you, in fact the group I killed Titan with the few times dps got hit they took less than half their hp in damage. The only instant kill is failing to kill the heart, which is fine.

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Originally Posted by Addicted

However, I find the first point to be wrong. First, you get a relic for one job out of 9. The other 8 jobs would still benefit greatly from a Titan weapon. The drops are far from useless.

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I have to disagree. As the current game stands, there will be far too little people who would bother to level another job, farm over 5130 tomestones of philosophy (that's almost 65 AK runs if your other job does not share equip) and farm Ifrit/Garuda till a weapon drops then head over to Titan. Then another 900 tomestones (which is another 11-12 runs) to complete your relic.

Oh god.

I guess that Garuda is the last puggable fight.

I'd agree that Titan does not have any worthwhile weapon drop but, Titan H drops a Titan Heart which will be a centerpiece furniture when housing is released

If all primals are easily puggable, it'll start to worry me as it is a sign that the encounter is so easy that pugs without the need for voice communication and co-ordination can consistently defeat it...

It actually adds value for players to join a FC and tackle the tougher content together

Does everyone really want content to be easily puggable? where are all of the players who said FF14 is casual and too easy and wanted tougher content?

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

I have to disagree. As the current game stands, there will be far too little people who would bother to level another job, farm over 5130 tomestones of philosophy (that's almost 65 AK runs if your other job does not share equip) and farm Ifrit/Garuda till a weapon drops then head over to Titan. Then another 900 tomestones (which is another 11-12 runs) to complete your relic.

Oh god.

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They said the same thing about 11 in its infancy. The majority of the playerbase pre-abyssea actually leveled more than 10 jobs to 75. Your argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Yavi

Remember, Titan is a ilvl 80 fight, so you should have mostly ilvl 70 gear when you fight him

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Titan is same ilvl fight as Garuda. They both drop item level 70 weapons. It is not an item level 80 fight.

im gonna hav to agree, titan should either be moved back further for more geared experienced players and or toned down and new primals should be introduced with increasingly higher difficulties. this is frustrating many players , my FC and I just got him after a week of attempts off and on

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Originally Posted by Eccho

I completely agree with this. To think I have been grinding him for 4 days now hours at a time just to get my relic. No one cares what he drops which is good because he is too hard for multi-runs. I play a scholar in a solid 8 man group but I've given up. There's no place for a scholar in that fight so I probably wont be getting my relic. I may as well go and re-roll a WHM abandon my scholar relic quest and start again. No one wants to take in scholars.

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What makes the scholar useless?

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Originally Posted by Unaki

They said the same thing about 11 in its infancy. The majority of the playerbase pre-abyssea actually leveled more than 10 jobs to 75. Your argument is invalid.

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This isn't 11. Your argument is just as invalid. Thank you.

No, titan is when you're supposed to find a FC/LS/friends/form a community and get everyone their relics and make a good class set up that works for titan. It's one of the most fun fights I've ever done in a MMO, probably the most fun, and I enjoyed it so much. Felt like I earned something by defeating him, it shouldn't be something you can do with randoms in duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Eccho

I completely agree with this. To think I have been grinding him for 4 days now hours at a time just to get my relic. No one cares what he drops which is good because he is too hard for multi-runs. I play a scholar in a solid 8 man group but I've given up. There's no place for a scholar in that fight so I probably wont be getting my relic. I may as well go and re-roll a WHM abandon my scholar relic quest and start again. No one wants to take in scholars.

he is right in saying the weapons are pointless. They have the same item level as Garuda - an easily farmable fight. In fact due to her poor scholar book drop I had to run her close to 50 times and have 5 of her weapons.
Titan was introduced in to the game too early. The skill level required is on a completely different level to Garuda. I'm bored. All we do all night is throw ourselves at titan and hope that all 8 people can avoid the several boring insta-death skills. There needs to be something else to do between Garuda and Titan.

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I just beat titan hardmode with my scholar and received my relic from it, scholar is incredible on it. Shields + virus + -10% AOE DR is too good to give up.

I still think that you should only be allowed to fight each of the Hard Primals once and receive a key item stating that their power is added to your weapon of choice. I have heard nothing but bitching from people on the game about fighting Titan, and nearly all of them don't want to fight him. Plus people are downplaying other people saying you need experience and high-end gear just to defeat him...

I'm going to have to agree here. I tried PuGing this fight a couple times. That was to get experience. I quickly realized what the Titan fight was actually like.

Early last week I started trying to beat titan so I could finish my relic quest. About 2 weeks later, I'm still trying to get that hyperfused ore.

I tend to see plenty of the same names in groups, and every attempt ends in death.

With Garuda, yea I'll admit she was no walk in the park. However, it was very much manageable with not as many insta-death moments. She had her teleport wind blasts. You don't hide behind a rock, you die. Then if there was too many rocks downed, insta-death from the BIG AOE. Other than that, none of her attacks really killed you instantly unless you were retard running into the brunt of the attack.

With Garuda HM, it was challenging, but not completely unforgiving. If one mistake was made and you needed a rez, it would not completely doom the party. It allowed for the acceptance of the occasional oops.

Right after that, Titan comes and there is no forgiveness. 1 death means you mine as well wipe the entire run right then and there. The battle is too far a spike in battle requirements from the battle right before.

Do I want the battle easily PuGgable? No. Do I want it toned down a bit so that it won't take another two weeks of demoralizing failures trying to down the primal? Yes.

agree that titan having drops at all is pointless

he's the very end of the relic quest, which gives you an ilvl 80 weapon

who cares if he just dropped an ilvl 70, you've effectively replaced his drops before your group is done rolling on them

it'd be another matter if titan was the halfway point in the relic quest, but being the last fight and dropping items for the same slot that the quest you're on rewards you with... seems silly

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Originally Posted by Eccho

I completely agree with this. To think I have been grinding him for 4 days now hours at a time just to get my relic. No one cares what he drops which is good because he is too hard for multi-runs. I play a scholar in a solid 8 man group but I've given up. There's no place for a scholar in that fight so I probably wont be getting my relic. I may as well go and re-roll a WHM abandon my scholar relic quest and start again. No one wants to take in scholars.

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Sounds like a player issue then from what I'm hearing the class is fine

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Originally Posted by Iskander

Do I want the battle easily PuGgable? No. Do I want it toned down a bit so that it won't take another two weeks of demoralizing failures trying to down the primal? Yes.

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I beat it in 1 day with mostly players who have never done the fight before. You just need to find players on your server, form a FC, form a LS, or make friends.

The fight is the most fun I've ever had in a MMO and one of the most challenging fights in a MMO ever, it does not need nerfed. It's the point where players need to realize "I need a LS/friends/FC to finish my relic", everything before then is a joke, this is the real part of the quest.

I would love this fight if it weren't for my latency issues. Coming from Australia, our internet is trash by international standards. I'm getting 330 ping on JP servers and even higher on NA. Doing Titan really comes down to luck for me because I have times where everyone freezes up for a full second and then Titan does an instant cast landslide. Also, the way the system detects you is really messed up, I've had so many of those ones where you're like 10 metres away from landslide and you get sent flying off although that could be my ISP's problem.

Srsly hope SE considers making 2 or 3 SEA servers because there's alot of people who play in that area and we'd appreciate a level playing field with our NA/JP counterparts.

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Originally Posted by Unaki

They said the same thing about 11 in its infancy. The majority of the playerbase pre-abyssea actually leveled more than 10 jobs to 75. Your argument is invalid.

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FFXI's infancy was around a decade ago. MMO's have changed a lot since then, as have the expectations players have of them.

Excessive grinding for the sake of grinding belongs in one of two places:
1) The past
2) Bad Korean/Chinese F2P MMOs.

I agree with Titan being stupid. Its unforgiving. I know damn well I can move 2 AOE lengths out of his Weight, and still get hit. Not only that, people queue up with less gear than they should have.

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Originally Posted by Unaki

They said the same thing about 11 in its infancy. The majority of the playerbase pre-abyssea actually leveled more than 10 jobs to 75. Your argument is invalid.

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Cite please.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

Titan is actually the fastest way to cap your Mythology atm.

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Yeah but you're not going to do it with the community at large. You run it with people who have already cleared the fight. There is no paying it forward.

Does it confuse anyone that the storyline progression of these fights is

Ifrit > Titan > Garuda

And then the hardmode progression of these fights is

Ifrit > Garuda > Titan... ??

I mean, I understand Titan is the 'new' fight. I played 1.0, and Ifrit and Garuda were both there. But then why would they make the storyline progression include Titan in the middle? It just bugs me. Sorry, it's a bit off topic... but still. >_<;;

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Originally Posted by Eccho

There's no place for a scholar in that fight so I probably wont be getting my relic. I may as well go and re-roll a WHM abandon my scholar relic quest and start again. No one wants to take in scholars.

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This is completely false. I just completed this fight today on Scholar. Virus, Sacred Soil, Lustrate and DoTs cannot be underestimated. With 2xSCH alternating virus and using sacred soil you can bring Tumults Damage down significantly. It's easily healed through with Succor spam even at maximum stomps. If no one is taking scholars they are doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Cailae

This is completely false. I just completed this fight today on Scholar. Virus, Sacred Soil, Lustrate and DoTs cannot be underestimated. With 2xSCH alternating virus and using sacred soil you can bring Tumults Damage down significantly. It's easily healed through with Succor spam even at maximum stomps. If no one is taking scholars they are doing it wrong.

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I was the 2nd Scholar in this Titan HM fight, and he is right on all marks. Quite honestly, I cannot see HM Titan being done without at least 1 Scholar. And don't forget we can throw Eye For An Eye on the tank as well.

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

I have to disagree. As the current game stands, there will be far too little people who would bother to level another job, farm over 5130 tomestones of philosophy (that's almost 65 AK runs if your other job does not share equip) and farm Ifrit/Garuda till a weapon drops then head over to Titan. Then another 900 tomestones (which is another 11-12 runs) to complete your relic.

Oh god.

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Actually most people DO bother to level more than one jobs, and you'd have a much better experience doing this anyway.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

Actually most people DO bother to level more than one jobs, and you'd have a much better experience doing this anyway.

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Sigh. I never said that people wouldn't bother leveling more jobs. I see you missed the part after that.

Funny to see people complain that they can't finish a relic which currently is the best weapon in the game. Sorry, but this fight should be difficult, if you want one get better or run with better players. The fact that it takes no effort whatsoever except for this very fight to get a relic is the bigger issue if you ask me. For the record this comes from someone who has not gotten his done and might not ever get it if it is as difficult as people here claim.

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Originally Posted by Yavi

The mechanics are from insta death if you are not under geared. Remember, Titan is a ilvl 80 fight, so you should have mostly ilvl 70 gear when you fight him, and if you do, even as a dps bombs nor weight will one shot you, in fact the group I killed Titan with the few times dps got hit they took less than half their hp in damage. The only instant kill is failing to kill the heart, which is fine.

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Titan is an ilvl70 fight. His weapons and shield are all ilvl70. Tho that is another point to the fact that the fight is imballanced. You need an ilvl70 weapon to get an ilvl70 weapon. Broken.

Using the duty finder for it is pretty much setting youself up for failure. They made it a survival fight, which is best with 3 healers, but give you 2 and make you take 2 tanks. 2nd tank is absolutely worthless.

And for the difficulty of the fight, it gives you the most weakest amount of either tomestones lol. I really think they have it set more difficult than it should be just to slow down peoples progress through relic and on to winding coils. you know, that artificially extending content life.

Well, Im glad at least some people enjoyed the Titan fight. For me, it pretty much kills my chances at progressing any further. I've tried getting people together to kill him for the past week with no luck at all. Also, my FC is a group of RL friends who aren't really interested in powering through the game, and no, I am not going to leave them to find a different FC to clear Titan. If I want to continue progressing my black mage now, my only real option is to keep grinding tomes to buy more gear so I can... keep wiping on Titan? Great... =/

And finally, no, I do not die to mechanics. Im usually the last person alive after a healer eats it, or a tank gets owned by mountain buster or what not after the heart is dead. I figure for now I'll try it another couple times tomorrow, and then just let it go and save myself the subscription costs on Tuesday. >.<

++ on the sch remarks, I find Titan easiest when I'm paired with one and they rock. Aside from the synergy a sch/whm combo brings, it's worth remembering that early enmity can be incredibly tight as a whm. If I medica2 the first stomp I'll likely be pulling agro whilst titan is mid air a few moments later. Sch simply don't have that issue due to some of the healing coming from the fairy, on the flipside, I've had Titan runs where I've literally had to just stop doing anything as the tank has missed a combo or two.

Oh and for those complaining that Titan HM is too hard. It's really not all that bad once you understand the mechanics of it.

The best advice I can offer is to form a group on your server that's prepared to sink a couple of hours into it with no one leaving/rage quitting etc. Then go in with the mind to learn the encounter, not beat it at first. The heart phase is little more than a gear check, if your DPS can't get it down, they need to go away and work on their equipment. Forming your own group allows you to at least gear check people first to ensure they have a good chance of putting out the right numbers.

Continued..

Beyond that, the best way to get a feel for phase 3 is to write down the order of abilities that titan uses, stick them on the side of the monitor. Bombs are little more than a case of learning the 3 various patterns and are far easier than they look. Plumes are a reaction check but knowing in advance when they are going to pop makes the world of difference (Also check your screen is in game mode, 10bit panels and TVs can be very slow to the order of 20-50ms!). The two buster attacks on the tank are a non event once the healers have it in their head to spam heal the tank after every line, remember that you get a smallish 2k hit with a very distinctive animation first, then the killer ~4k follows a few seconds later.

If you've got people that are really struggling with the movement and avoidance side of things in phase 3, consider simply stopping DPS once the heart dies and timing how long you can stay alive.

I'd still like to get the titan pieces even with my relics, personally. Also, I don't think gear is as important as skill in this particular fight. I know I would never kick someone over a gear issue as long as they can move.


For those having trouble:

First, I want to start by saying I love the Titan Fight. Best boss fight so far in my progression/opinion. And also other than my two regular friends, we completed it a few times now with PUG groups. However, we are shouting in towns and not doing duty finder. One time we did 2 tanks, but other times we only did it with one and always just 1 whm and 1 sch. I think once people have more experience with the fight it can be done with duty finder without any issues. The first time we did it, we had PLD tank and WAR actually dd. He wasn't the highest damage but he was spec'd for the DD role to the best of his ability, which ultimately worked out for us. I'd say the most important thing in the fight is dodging and virus before he stomps can be very helpful. Minimal mis-steps and mistakes and a bit of luck. lol

Try to get into a training group if you are having trouble still. Also, sprint can be used in the fight if you are having too much difficulty getting out of his pools or bombs, etc. Watching a video can also be enlightening for those who learn that way.

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Originally Posted by Unaki

They said the same thing about 11 in its infancy. The majority of the playerbase pre-abyssea actually leveled more than 10 jobs to 75. Your argument is invalid.

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Anecdotal. Cite it or it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Eccho

. There's no place for a scholar in that fight so I probably wont be getting my relic. I may as well go and re-roll a WHM abandon my scholar relic quest and start again. No one wants to take in scholars.

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Please don't spread misinformation.

The optimal healing setup for this is to bring atleast one SCH and either one or two WHMs depending on if you 2/3 heal the fight, Your bubble shield helps take the edge off his jump/stomps(if you gather for it in P3) plus adloquium. Eye for an Eye is also helpful though not SCH only you do get a reduced cooldown on it. The fairy is also a nice source of mana free healing in a fight that is a complete healing check.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

What makes the scholar useless?

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Fairy is pretty useless in fights with high damage, her buffs don't make up for the lack of proshell and stoneskin and half the time they don't even hit anyone when they do go off.

Looks like I am guna have to also abandon my SCH relic and do the WHM one as well.

Lustrate is awesome I will admit that, but if your fairy is dead you have lost half your heals and then its a choice between do I use swiftcast on fairy or save it to raise someone :S (WHM doesn't have to deal with this)

i loved the titan fight, its really nice and whoever says the fight is broken needs to check their internet or ISP. also for those saying that SCH is not viable you dont know what you are talking about. i have done the fight with 1 SCH and 1 WHM and it was the best run ever the shield is so helpful in P3, i would never run 2 WHM if i can get a SCH instead.

For the people saying the AOE cant be dodged, i have said this in almost every thread. the issue is with the ISP not the game, i have played with people suffering from the AOE and cant dodge no matter what they do and as soon as they use Battleping (tunneling system) they can dodge the AOEs fine with no issues. btw no am not in us i live in middle east and our latency is higher than Europe.