Please buff Succor.

It's a horribly UP spell. Double its effectiveness. Make Sacred Soil have a 40% chance for the free Succor or make the 15% chance guarantee that Succor crits.

My only other request for Scholar is turning off their automatic usage of spells, and Eos's aoe regen should be on a 30 sec cd.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

It's a horribly UP spell. Double its effectiveness. Make Sacred Soil have a 40% chance for the free Succor or make the 15% chance guarantee that Succor crits.

My only other request for Scholar is turning off their automatic usage of spells, and Eos's aoe regen should be on a 30 sec cd.

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succor is joke compared to medica2

Double will make it OP. I agree with the chance for a free succor on SS though needs to be upped.

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Originally Posted by Laiyenu

Double will make it OP. I agree with the chance for a free succor on SS though needs to be upped.

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At double effectiveness it'd still be worse than Medica II, only getting close if it crits. Really, what rather pushes whm over the top is how strong regen is at the moment.

I would prefer double heal but half the shield. E.g

Sucker
Potency 300
Produces a shield that is equal to half the hp healed.

Still worse then medica2 . But thats fine.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

succor is joke compared to medica2

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That's because succor is Medica I's equivalent. Your fairie AoE is comparative to Medica II. And yes, it's worse... But Medica II is really the main benefit of playing a WHm over a SCH.

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Originally Posted by Draemos

That's because succor is Medica I's equivalent. Your fairie AoE is comparative to Medica II. And yes, it's worse... But Medica II is really the main benefit of playing a WHm over a SCH.

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No. Faerie is equivalent to regen, except it's got a long ass cd because it's aoe instead. It has no upfront healing.

Double potency would be too OP, it would be Adloquium but AoE. I think 200 potency would be about right, maybe 250, and possibly have a 15% chance to make the next Adloquium an instant cast, cost nothing, and 100% crit. That last part would probably be too OP though

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Originally Posted by peaches

Double potency would be too OP, it would be Adloquium but AoE. I think 200 potency would be about right, maybe 250, and possibly have a 15% chance to make the next Adloquium an instant cast, cost nothing, and 100% crit. That last part would probably be too OP though

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Sometimes I gotta wonder if you've paid attention to the healing total of medica II, which is WAY more than 600 damage prevention.

Well I'm only level 35, so I've never seen it in action. I know its better, but we can't have the exact same spell with a bubble effect. It'd be a cheap way to go.

I posted this in another thread, but it works well here:

In situations where everybodys HP is dropping super fast from unavoidable AoE, there isn't much I can do. Everybody is constantly losing HP, but I can't just cast Adloquium on the tank to heal the dps, since he's taking that AoE plus the damage of the boss/adds. So I have to focus on my healing, and hope my fairy heals the dps, until a point where the tank is fairly stabilized and I can spare 2.3s to cast and another 2.5s gcd.

It feels almost 100% useless to use Succor in these situations. It heals for me around 150 HP, and with the constant damage the bubble is eaten instantly. I'd have to spam succor around 8 times to fully heal everybody from them being around 40-60% health. I know that's not its use, and I would be instantly OOM if I did that of course, but the crazy low potency bubble on it makes it feel pointless to cast for a bubble, and same for the heals. I feel like Succor really has no place on my action bar. I don't know if it changes later, but that's how it feels to me right now.

Maybe it would be better if it was made into an AoE 250 potency Bubble. I feel like it needs to specialize. Maybe if it was a pure bubble, it would be good to cast BEFORE an AoE to prevent the damage, as opposed to trying to work with a measly cure and bubble effect that don't really do much of anything together.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

No. Faerie is equivalent to regen, except it's got a long ass cd because it's aoe instead. It has no upfront healing.

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Ugh..

Embrace = regen (100 vs 50 potency per second)
Whispering dawn = Medica 2 (700 potency, 60s cd, no MP, no threat VS 700 potency, no cooldown, massive threat, 450ish MP)

Medica 2 is obviously better for lots of throughput, but it's also the only healing spell that's better than the SCH equivalent. There also aren't a whole lot of fights(very few actually) you cast more than a single Medica II per minute, although they are certainly ramping up at endgame. But those are all 8 mans and your likely to have a WHM partner anyway.

Yes, to an extent. Regen ticks every 3 seconds, where as if you leave your fairy alone, she won't heal until 70-80% health. You have to manually spam it to get the full effect out of it. And Whispering Dawn COULD almost count as Medica 2, IF you could tell your fairy not to use any ability except Embrace. Half the time when I run into a battle and stand just behind the tank, she won't be anywhere near me. She will be at the entrance where she was standing when combat initiated, casting Whispering Dawn with nobody around. With Medica you don't have to worry about any of that - its around you. Maybe like I said if you could turn off auto cast for Whispering Dawn and cast it yourself when you properly place her, OR even better, if casting it made the AoE around you instead of her.

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Originally Posted by peaches

Snip.

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There are a couple threads where people explain how to get around exactly what your complaining about. I recall reading some on reddit as well. One of the modes will basically make it so she actively uses only embrace and nothing else(and you can manually use her other abilities), but I don't recall the name. Granted it shouldn't be such a pain in the ass nor so unintuitive.

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Originally Posted by Draemos

Ugh..

Embrace = regen (100 vs 50 potency per second)
Whispering dawn = Medica 2 (700 potency, 60s cd, no MP, no threat VS 700 potency, no cooldown, massive threat, 450ish MP)

Medica 2 is obviously better for lots of throughput, but it's also the only healing spell that's better than the SCH equivalent. There also aren't a whole lot of fights(very few actually) you cast more than a single Medica II per minute, although they are certainly ramping up at endgame. But those are all 8 mans and your likely to have a WHM partner anyway.

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No, Embrace is what you use to match freecure procs throughout the fight and the whm's ability to spike abilities. If your tank falls below a threshold and you need to spike him up before he gets gibbed, for example with a Triumvirate in a single tank hydra fight, the whm will be able to top it off much more effectively with a Cure II spike (which Adloquium really doesn't match and is much more less mp efficient).

Whispering Down is a 60 sec cd, with NO UPFRONT HEALING. NO UPFRONT HEALING.

If a group gets cleaved in garuda or a group of people get hit by titan's aoe, a aoe lesser regen over a longer period of time will never be as powerful as frontloaded hp restoration with a HoT component.
It's also why blm's are taken over summoners in many groups, because the ability to frontload in encounters where spike mechanism matter will turn out for the better even if you have greater potency spells spread over a much larger period of time.

And in Titan HM if you don't have a whm healer you're going to be in a world of hurt, going forward with coil. Not having a scholar is much less of a hit than not having a whm, because so far in most encounters what sets healers behind is aoe damage, and whm's patch that up the best. Tank-healing is hardly an issue in most encounters, it's forcing healers to use globals on group damage that can sink an encounter, and whm's have the best tools for that. More importantly, a whm can slap regen on a group of people and they don't have to worry about being in range of the fairy . The whm's output doesn't die a miserable death when lethal debuffs applied by a boss also target the pet and happen to 2-shot the pet (I'm looking at you, hydra ball of fire debuff when you're curing a tank after a Triumvirate and can't issue reposition commands while casting). Repositioning the pet only helps so much.

Rouse > Fey Illumination > Succor > Whispering Dawn.
Now if only the damn pet would stop blowing it's cooldowns or allow me to make a macro of the above, I'd be a happy camper

I would be happier with a way to retain/gain aetherflow stacks easier during heavy healing situations. I find that if I have aetherflow stacks at the ready I can dish out some decent multi target healing output by just using adloquium/physick on other targets while maintaining the tank with Lustrate. I think I would also like to see more mechanics with sacred soil. Perhaps stuff like this:

-If allies affected by succor are under the influence of Sacred soil double the heal.
-If the target of your lustrate is under the influence Sacred soil spread 25% of the heal to all nearby allies.
-If the target of your Energy drain is within your sacred soil the mana and health gained is spread to nearby allies.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

No, Embrace is what you use to match freecure procs throughout the fight and the whm's ability to spike abilities.

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Freecure procs are not healing throughput and I can't magically make them appear when I need to deal with spike damage, they're random and they last 15 seconds. They're purely an efficiency mechanic. Compare spells based on throughput and Regen and Embrace are almost the exact same, difference is embrace is free and Regen can be rolled on multiple targets.

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Whispering Down is a 60 sec cd, with NO UPFRONT HEALING. NO UPFRONT HEALING.

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Irrelevant. You can cast a Whispering Dawn and a Succor at the same time if you need upfront healing. The throughput is the same for Whispering Dawn and Medica II. If you have an issue with Whispering Dawn being free-cast by your pet, then you need to petition about pet control being improved, not trying to compare Medica II and Succor.

I think FF needs this: White Mage, Paladin, Monk, Black Mage. That's it. Only four classes and maybe people would stop complaining about the differences between the classes. 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 melee dps, one range dps. Scholar has some advantages over white mage, white mage has some over scholar... I wonder ... do they work well together.. hmmmm. If you don't like your class, or think it has problems, then just switch weapons. This isn't like SWTOR or WOW you don't have to start the game all over. Otherwise you are just complaining because you want your class to be unstoppable.

What they really need to add is White Mage stoneskin that can absorb all damage, magical and physical for 30 minutes. Anyone with Stoneskin doesn't take damage. /eyeroll

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Originally Posted by Draemos

Freecure procs are not healing throughput and I can't magically make them appear when I need to deal with spike damage, they're random and they last 15 seconds. They're purely an efficiency mechanic. Compare spells based on throughput and Regen and Embrace are almost the exact same, difference is embrace is free and Regen can be rolled on multiple targets.



Irrelevant. You can cast a Whispering Dawn and a Succor at the same time if you need upfront healing. The throughput is the same for Whispering Dawn and Medica II. If you have an issue with Whispering Dawn being free-cast by your pet, then you need to petition about pet control being improved, not trying to compare Medica II and Succor.

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The instance in which you need to aoe heal happens a lot more than every 60 seconds; stop being naive. Do Titan HM with just scholars and see how well the Tumults are handled.

A 15 duration proc that happens fairly often at the rate you use cure I can easily be used to absorb spike damage. It's just like a BLM holding on to Firestarter procs when he expects a burst phase.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

I think FF needs this: White Mage, Paladin, Monk, Black Mage. That's it. Only four classes and maybe people would stop complaining about the differences between the classes. 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 melee dps, one range dps. Scholar has some advantages over white mage, white mage has some over scholar... I wonder ... do they work well together.. hmmmm. If you don't like your class, or think it has problems, then just switch weapons. This isn't like SWTOR or WOW you don't have to start the game all over. Otherwise you are just complaining because you want your class to be unstoppable.

What they really need to add is White Mage stoneskin that can absorb all damage, magical and physical for 30 minutes. Anyone with Stoneskin doesn't take damage. /eyeroll

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This was the single most meaningless response in this thread. You should be proud.

Oh, wait, no you shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

I think FF needs this: White Mage, Paladin, Monk, Black Mage. That's it. Only four classes and maybe people would stop complaining about the differences between the classes. 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 melee dps, one range dps.
Otherwise you are just complaining because you want your class to be unstoppable.

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Talking about balance is what gets things fixed. There are quite a few issues with scholar which do infact put white mage reliably ahead of them in terms of healing output. Yes scholar has things that whm doesn't but the issues with scholar make it so that in a group I would gladly step down in place of another whm if it meant we could more easily finish an objective. This is a bad thing for balance.

It isn't about wanting a class to be unstoppable as it's like you said I can always swap. That said just swapping away from a poor pick instead of trying to work it out is what pigeon holes the game into 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 melee dps, 1 ranged dps which is again a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

The instance in which you need to aoe heal happens a lot more than every 60 seconds; stop being naive. Do Titan HM with just scholars and see how well the Tumults are handled.

A 15 duration proc that happens fairly often at the rate you use cure I can easily be used to absorb spike damage. It's just like a BLM holding on to Firestarter procs when he expects a burst phase.

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You have a 35% uptime on Whispering Dawn for heavy AoE healing moments. For the other 65% of the time you can cast Succor and spotheal to your heart's content. How many fights actually REQUIRE that much consistent AoE healing? Maybe the last phases of Garruda, but it's certainly nothing beyond the capabilities of a SCH. HM Titan is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. maybe something in Bahamut after turn 2, I haven't really taken a hard look beyond that.

Titan is a major AoE healing fight the likes of which isn't seen prior to that point in the game, and it caters perfectly to the WHM strengths and the SCHs weakness. SCHs keep pointing at Titan like it's some sort of litmus test for game balance. How many fights are better served or equal by having a SCH as your healer? Damn near all the light party content is due to their flexibility. The ones that favor WHM are generally because of some ill thought out mechanic that doesn't consider pets. I know it sucks because Titan is the major roadblock to getting the Relic weapon and opening up Bahamut's; but it's still only one fight. Regardless, it's very rare I cast more than a Medica II more than once per minute on 90% of the bosses in game.

No, it's nothing like holding a Firestarter proc. Firestarter actually increases throughput damage by letting the Mage stay in his fire tree longer (thus more damage) as well as instant casting a fire spell. How exactly do you think Freecure works? a Cure II freecure does nothing different than a regular Cure II; it's just costs no MP. The free-cure proc isn't something you hold onto to deal with spike damage, it's no more effective than a regular Cure II. You spend it at the first reasonable point that isn't going to result in an overheal. . Our mana situation is not as stable as yours, we need to get every ounce of healing out of our free cure II as possible. It's the same reason we generally use our Shroud purely as a mana tool instead of an aggro dump. Freecure is just a bonus thing when it procs at convenient times, you absolutely do not factor it into the way you deal with spike damage. When the tank is spiking or you are behind, you use Cure II regardless of what's going on with Freecure... same as SCHs and Adlo. We also having nothing near as convenient as Lustrate, our oh shit's on a 5 minute cooldown and is saved for only the most dire of circumstances. I can only dream about how convenient it must be to be able to rapid fire off a 600-1200+ instant heal while on the move. Of course I wouldn't think to rage about Benedictions inadequacy in comparison, because that's a SCH strength and I'm perfectly fine with that.

the only thing i dislike about succor is the sacred soil chance

sacred soil is a 30s cooldown and consumes an aetherflow, make the free succor just be part of it instead of such a low chance it's not even worth noticing

Well, it was repeated over and over again that SCH and WHM were to be complementary and synergize well together. So stop complaining that 2 SCH cannot do the job properly because they are simply not meant to. 2 WHM work better together than 2 SCH only because HoTs stack when shields don't. But don't forget that other MMOs have shown how game breaking shields can be, so i understand why SE is treating this with extreme care. Imo, greater control over Faerie is improvement SE should focus on for making SCH a perfect job.

Not sure if it should be doubled but it does need buffed. As it stands, I end up being the single target healer and the WHM is the AoE healer.

What I've tended to do (only level 40 here, so this probably doesn't work out well at 50) is I'll pretty much for Eos to cast Embrace on the tank between every action I make. So Eos is pretty much healing the tank, while I heal up party members, unless the tank is tanking too much damage and then I'll only heal the tank.

So far, the only thing I think needs to happen to the scholar class, is for the faeries to only cast Embrace while in Steady. That way I can control when Whispering Dawn gets used. If I could use that during the AoE phases, things would be a lot better, but its generally on cooldown. I tried setting up keyboard macros to make it so that I would cast Embrace, the immediately Steady, followed by Obey, but it seems like half the time that doesn't work and she still casts Whispering Dawn when I don't want her to.

I think what a lot of people miss about scholars is that they are better are preventing damage vs healing through it. If we want to go back to Titan AoE garbage...

Titan is about to jump, Succor your group. 250~ shield on the group. thrown down sacred soil, group just took about ... 800-1200 less damage from his landing on the platform. hit group with another succor + a WHM medica 2 and group is at full HP, most likely with a shield on them again.

Titan is about to stop: Succor your group, Fey Illum. and AoE regain ability. + 1 medica 2 and group is at full. You can succor inbetween stomps also if you time it right so you'll get a little shield back on + the healing.

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Originally Posted by Mindcl0ud

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All this aside, granting an AOE preshield as strong as a 150 potency heal+10% damage reduction comes nowhere near healing twice the AOE damage with half the time, and MP with a basic medica.

WHM can still have their niche thanks to medica ii, and cure iii (not to mention regen), but as is, SCH have no decent options at all for AOE healing, and the aoe damage reduction doesn't make up for it. Succor should be buffed, or just tag medica useable by SCH so there's an alternative much like the choices between physic, and adloquium.

This will likely not be a popular post, but here goes...

Honestly, I feel SCH is pretty OP as it stands. I'm healing just fine (up to Darkhold currently) and still able to find time to apply my DoTs and Virus to mobs/bosses. Sure I make mistakes from time to time doing this, but more often than not, I keep the party alive and add some minor damage to the fights.

If my heals get buffed, I would feel that SCH would be too powerful on the healing side as Physic already does plenty. There's no need to buff Succor, just stack crit hit chance and get those awesome crit shields.

FYI, I also don't control my pet since there is no way to macro it in currently. And no, I don't feel it's necessary just yet to do so. Would I like it, sure, but do I need it... Nah.

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Originally Posted by peaches

In situations where everybodys HP is dropping super fast from unavoidable AoE, there isn't much I can do. Everybody is constantly losing HP, but I can't just cast Adloquium on the tank to heal the dps, since he's taking that AoE plus the damage of the boss/adds. So I have to focus on my healing, and hope my fairy heals the dps, until a point where the tank is fairly stabilized and I can spare 2.3s to cast and another 2.5s gcd.

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Let me just say in this case you should be manually controlling the fairy and telling her who to heal between your spell casts. If you leave Eos or Selene on auto and forget about them you are missing out on half of the Scholars power.

That said, Succor has a place. Not a very big place, and usually only after you get a free proc of it. I honestly have no problem with its potency, but the cost for what it does is rather high.

One of my favorite tricks as a scholar? Healing two people at the exact same time. try that as a white mage!

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Originally Posted by Tinker

That said, Succor has a place. Not a very big place, and usually only after you get a free proc of it. I honestly have no problem with its potency, but the cost for what it does is rather high.

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... and we have no almost no other alternatives for that place succor struggles to fill, other than single target healing as many people as possible as fast as possible.

Succor's lack of potency is what makes the MP cost too high for what it does. Cutting the MP cost in half, doesn't really fix the above problem.

Succor's problem is its our only aoe healing tool and its designed as damage prevention spell.
So we end up forced to spam a 150 potency aoe heal for 400 mp each.
Sch is victim of the 5 abilities only for each job design flaw


We could of got another aoe healing tool which is more designed to be an aoe heal rather then dmg prevention tool.

They should of split succor into 2 spells for sch.
A medica clone 300 potency aoe heal.
An aoe 150 potency shield (similar to old aoe stoneskin).

Or

Give sch an instant off gcd ability that detonates all current adloquium shields on targets for equivalent healing.

So a sch could do
succor>off-gcd shield detonate>succor>off-gcd shield detonate>succor>off-gcd shield detonate
which would be equivilant hps to a whm doing
medica>medica>medica

That's a good idea, to make it fair and balanced it can be an of-gcd aetherflow based skill that swaps the shield into healing, and maybe gives it a 1.5x times effectiveness. With maybe a 15 sec cooldown. It can be applied before casting a heal as a buff for the next spell. This would turn our aoe heal into a 375 potency heal at the cost of (?)400 mp and an aetherflow stack. I think this would be pretty fair and balanced.

This way we can do succor -> succor + buff -> succor and not have a wasted shield in the middle.

Scholar has little to none MP problem so I don't mind if the ability cost more than WHM equivalent.
If they give Scholar AoE heal, it will be come superior to WHM. Same heal, have pet, no mp and threat problem.....It shouldn't be that way.
Succor serves as a pre-shield. It is supposed to compliment not to compete against Medica.
Thou I do agree its mechanic can be more interesting. Make Physick or Aldo crit procs a buff that double the shield of Succor in the next 10-15 sec.
Also Sacred Soil should be changed. It should give an extra effect for one of Scholar ability if the Scholar is standing on it, instead of a weak 15% proc chance.
Last but not least, a lot of people say about manually control Embrace. While it is good, i feel that the manual cast from pet is fine. It will heal whoever need i. I would rather manually control her cooldowns than control her Embrace.

To me Medica is a post-hit AoE heal
and Succor is more a pre-emptive AoE buff

If everybody is low on HP the combination of Succor and Medica is great to get everybody in shape but Succor alone is not for recovering health so much I thin

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Originally Posted by Miridori

Scholar has little to none MP problem so I don't mind if the ability cost more than WHM equivalent.

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WHM don't have MP problems either. Even less so with a bard in full parties.

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Originally Posted by Miridori

If they give Scholar AoE heal, it will be come superior to WHM. Same heal, have pet, no mp and threat problem.....It shouldn't be that way.

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I just mentioned WHM do not have MP problems. SCH can't stack shields, and regen stacking from medica ii+regen is still really powerful. Last I checked, no one here is asking to have cure iii, medica ii, or regen which really puts WHM over the top in AOE healing. So no, SCH getting the normal, HOT-less medica isn't going to make WHM useless.

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Originally Posted by Miridori

Succor serves as a pre-shield. It is supposed to compliment not to compete against Medica.

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It doesn't do much else besides that very well since it'll take twice as long, and twice the MP to heal as much as medica. It's just bad for AOE.

Yes, well-gear WHM will have little mana issue. But in a long draw fight they will get low and they cannot spam as much as scholar.

I agree stacking regen is very strong and it is the reason 2 WHM is viable. However, giving scholar instant AoE heal will make 2 scholars very potent as well (because of their pets), might be even stronger than 1 scholar 1 whm (might be). I liek class diversity and I like classes to have strength and weakness.

Are we able to do all the 4 man content perfectly fine?
Are we valuable to 8-man as much as people will prefer 1 scholar/1 whm than 2 whm?

If the answer are both yes, I see no problem in our current position.

Then whats WHM weakness? A good group will include BRD, so mana conversation is moot. In any game with stats growth, any class with higher output will be favored on the long run since the initial resource constraint will eventually be relaxed/overcome with higher tier gears, unless the devs constantly tweak their game (which is, face it, unlikely as we are dealing with SE here). Meanwhile, an AoE-crippled SCH is ever crippled regardless of his/her gear.

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To me Medica is a post-hit AoE heal
and Succor is more a pre-emptive AoE buff

If everybody is low on HP the combination of Succor and Medica is great to get everybody in shape but Succor alone is not for recovering health so much I thin

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No, its not preemptive at all. You need HP lost to create a shield and since succor produces additional shield instead of straight heal, your healed targets are still at HP-loss states, which require ANOTHER AoE heal to top up (from WHM or from the pet w/ huge CD) as 2 Succor in succession is a waste. The only situation where succor s favoured is constant AoE damage fight, but in that scenario Medica 2 with regen works wonder still (as shield potency is only 150). So in its current state, succor is way behind medica/medica 2 in term of usability and requires complete redesign if SCH ever hope to compete against WHM's AoE healing.

Succor is NOT preemptive healing. Its a gimmick AoE heal with limited use, but sadly the only AOE heal in a SCH's asernal ATM since the pet is bugged beyond redemption.

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Originally Posted by Miridori

If the answer are both yes, I see no problem in our current position.

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Different classes are different I know, but you can't validate one class being at least 100% better than another class in a situation they're both expected to deal with, which is what the issue is now. Aoe damage tends to happen in bursts, and not all aoe is like the first boss of AV. Shield is moot after the hit, and all succor becomes is less than half a medica. It's arguably better for a SCH to just divert their attention and heal people individually with how bad succor is.

You see nothing wrong with un-intuative pet control, and damn-near useless aoe heal?

You see nothing wrong in a SCH not really being necessary? You think there's something wrong with 2 SCH in a full party actually being decent for once? Because 2 WHM are beyond decent, and that's apparently acceptable to you, but 2 SCH with medica would suddenly break the game? Shield's don't stack, and regens do. Please convince me how 2 SCH with medica would be broken.

From your post, the answer to both these questions seem to be yes, so I very much doubt we're playing the same game here. SCH have tools that do not work/are not useful/cannot be counted on majority of the time. Classes shouldn't be balanced around tools that don't work.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

You need HP lost to create a shield

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Succor/Adloq make a shield when you're at full hp... Might wanna check up on your SCH mechanics

That said, succor still needs a buff for reasons others have already stated.m