How to allocate attributes to become a decent SCH/SMN ?

Yes, I am talking about SCH/SMN, not just specializing in one and sticking with it.
I know that if I do this I will not make the BEST SCH or SMN, but I prefer to be able to switch according to my FC needs or my mood.

Important Stats
SCH: MND VIT PIE(debatable, SCH can regenerate MP quicker than WHM)
SMN: INT

Now I just can't decide...

10 VIT 10 INT 10 MND ?

Any better suggestions?

Between DPS/Heal races (Garuda for example) you can't. Losing 20 MND is a pretty big hit when your tanks taking more damage than you can heal.

Wish Summoner got a toned down version of Cleric Stance.

10,000 seals allows you to switch to your fc needs or mood. Or you can level up another heal/dps class. You have to make some dedication with job or Arcanist would be the go to job to level first due to it's ability to pick between two roles until the newer jobs come out for the other classes.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

Between DPS/Heal races (Garuda for example) you can't. Losing 20 MND is a pretty big hit when your tanks taking more damage than you can heal.

Wish Summoner got a toned down version of Cleric Stance.

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I don't think the difference of 20mnd is as big as you think, unless dealing with a rather prolonged fight in the first place.

Just some sample numbers since was wondering about this as well, and did a little testing as a Lv 9 ACN using a 11 magic dmg tome and Physic. With the 11 dmg tome, and physic's potency of 400, would expect a heal right around 44 if I understand the base mechanics right. Other value of note that did not change for these quick tests was a determination of 33. With no direct + heal potency equipment, Heal potency = Mnd. Tested with 32, and 33 MND. At 32, Physic healed for 49-52, at 33, it healed for 50-53.

When I get next new tome, I'll do the same quick test again, and try to cancel out the Mnd gain on the new tome from the old one, and do a 1 Mnd variance again.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

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try at 50, my friend at 38 broke half his gear and had pretty good base mnd, but his heal was reduced to a mere 88 about, not nearly enough to heal people. It does effect quite a bit and later fights are very hard. High end gear may not look like a big upgrade often until you actually put it on and use it.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

try at 50, my friend at 38 broke half his gear and had pretty good base mnd, but his heal was reduced to a mere 88 about, not nearly enough to heal people. It does effect quite a bit and later fights are very hard. High end gear may not look like a big upgrade often until you actually put it on and use it.

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If I had a 50 ACN I would certainly do so, but since currently trying to level it have to make due with what I got.

Did some more testing as a Lv 10 ACN and the results are rather interesting. First Determination went up to 35 from the level. Now what was interesting is when took off gear to get back down to 32, and 33 mnd and used the same 11 dmg tome to check for determination differences. The range of my heals actually went down, adjusted mind a bit more to try and see what was going on. Was 47-50 at 32, 48-51 at 33, 49-52 at 34, and 50-53 with 35. At 36 mnd it went to 52-55, and with 37 it was 53-56.

Now with equipping a 14 dmg tome, I would expect a 12 point difference between the two when using physick, due to its potency.
With 32 mnd was seeing 59-62, at 37 mnd, saw 64-69.

Until have a way to adjust determination can't fully see what is going on, as seems odd with the drop with same mind, but was lower than determination, and the short jump above it. Also the wider range with the stronger tome past determination is interesting as well.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

try at 50, my friend at 38 broke half his gear and had pretty good base mnd, but his heal was reduced to a mere 88 about, not nearly enough to heal people. It does effect quite a bit and later fights are very hard. High end gear may not look like a big upgrade often until you actually put it on and use it.

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If your weapon breaks you can expect, roughly anyways, your healing output to drop to a quarter. Weapon plays a huge difference, mind comes after that in importance.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

try at 50, my friend at 38 broke half his gear and had pretty good base mnd, but his heal was reduced to a mere 88 about, not nearly enough to heal people. It does effect quite a bit and later fights are very hard. High end gear may not look like a big upgrade often until you actually put it on and use it.

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okay,

took off 30 mnd worth of gear

Physick healed 5 times(excluding crits) for 618, 589, 586, 614, 595

with the 30 mnd

physick healed 5 times(excluding crits) for 660, 657, 639, 672, 659.

is the difference noticeable? yes

is it enough to make sch gimped? no.

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Originally Posted by Malix

okay,

took off 30 mnd worth of gear

Physick healed 5 times(excluding crits) for 618, 589, 586, 614, 595

with the 30 mnd

physick healed 5 times(excluding crits) for 660, 657, 639, 672, 659.

is the difference noticeable? yes

is it enough to make sch gimped? no.

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Makes an approximate range of 586-618 without the mind, with 639-672, for a difference of 53-54 on the two extremes. Have to ask though did the gear you took off have any determination on it? As that could of skewed things a bit.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Makes an approximate range of 586-618 without the mind, with 639-672, for a difference of 53-54 on the two extremes. Have to ask though did the gear you took off have any determination on it? As that could of skewed things a bit.

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Excellent question, now that i look at it, one piece that i took off had 7 determination so the numbers maybe be closer to mid 40s in difference.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Makes an approximate range of 586-618 without the mind, with 639-672, for a difference of 53-54 on the two extremes. Have to ask though did the gear you took off have any determination on it? As that could of skewed things a bit.

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If adding MND does not truly give significant advantage to healing power, is the converse also true for SMN and INT?
It will be interesting if the conclusion here is to go VIT all the way in order to survive end-game battles :p

1 heal isnt enough to see the whole picture

in a battle like ifrit for example , that last a while the numbers btw 1 arcansit with all points in mind and other in int is really noticiable

So 30mnd and 7 determination makes a difference of 53-54 healed, based off of Malix's quick testing.

So what we know so far, is that weapon damage, and healing potency/mind directly affect the how much one heals, and that determination affects it all somehow too. Once get how determination actually effects things pinned down, would be much easier to say exactly what is more important. I would guess that Ranged, Melee, Attack magic, and healing magic all work on a similar formula, so once get determination pinned down for healing, should better know just how much of an impact a point of a raw stat actually has.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

1 heal isnt enough to see the whole picture

in a battle like ifrit for example , that last a while the numbers btw 1 arcansit with all points in mind and other in int is really noticiable

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Agreed, but when get into prolonged fights, much more stuff beyond raw healing per mp come into play too. Like how well people avoid damage, how well people manage cooldowns and rotations, and effective hp/mp pools.

*groans* I really really really don't like this. so, there's talk about gimped scholar, but what about summoner? if I put my arcanist points more towards scholar will that gimp the summoner a lot?

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Originally Posted by amnie

*groans* I really really really don't like this. so, there's talk about gimped scholar, but what about summoner? if I put my arcanist points more towards scholar will that gimp the summoner a lot?

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I would imagine that SMN's damage would suffer as much as SCH's healing does depending on where your ACN points are placed. Enough to be noticeable if people are looking for it, but only really make or break in borderline situations. If you are planning to main heal more on SCH it looks like will want the mnd, if planning to be a DD more, will want the int. So if planning towards end game or new content, focus more on which you prefer to do.

I would pick the one you are going to play more for your group and go with the main stat. Don't do stats half way because you are gimping both jobs and making them under preform.