Thank you for FATEs :)

With all the hate going around against FATEs and the people screaming for them to be nerfed (mostly people who already got 50 and now desperately want the XP train cut off before anyone can catch up to them), I figured at least someone should hop up and say "thanks for that".

FF14 for me has had an engrossing main story, though rather drab side quests and repetitive leves. The dungeons are amazing the first time through, but they can be a little boring doing them over and over again. That said- FATEs have been an amazing answer to this.

Honestly, I find myself exceptionally attached to this game because the option of FATEs exists, and can definitely see myself continuing to play for quite a while because they are an option to make leveling a little less painful for an alt-o-holic like me.

So thank you, Square. And just remember,most of the people who are currently cursing your name for FATEs and demanding nerfs were just as thankful when they were reaping those rewards =D

For anyone to even worry remotely about people "catching up to them" in an mmo which should be around for years, is rather ridiculous actually. If there are people who are out there who actually worry about this, then I truly feel bad for them. Where exactly did you pull that thought from? Nvm, I don't want to know.

I've gathered the impression that most people want fates adjusted because it's lopsided the bulk of the world population to the path of least resistance, as well as, refusing to take part in the mind numbing blue circle chase. The fact that you seem to find this entertaining, is somewhat disturbing. Certainly odd that you find dungeons boring, but fates you do not? They are exhilarating are they?

Of course there is the problem of the army of players it is creating, who attain level 20+, and do not know the first thing about their class, much less how to play it effectively in group events which require actual coordination.

Fates are an insult to most people's intelligence and mental fortitude. The only virtues I can see fates requiring, are a galactic amount of patience and determination to survive cumbersome and mindless grind while keeping your sanity intact. If this is the best this game has to offer, I can certainly see a mass exodus by the year's end.

The only people I sense who are defending fates, are the ones who want max level as quickly and effortlessly as possible. These are the types of people who love to burn through mmo's and then quickly abandon them for the next shiny gem on the mmo radar. Fates are merely GW2 events, done wrongly in every conceivable way.

Brilliant of you to speak on behalf of everyone asking for fate changes though. Surely we were all "thankful when reaping those rewards"? Mmmmm, no, maybe not.

Most MMOs will have a lot of people that get pretty far and still don't know how to play their class. FATEs aren't the reason for this in ARR, either. It's the fact that the game isn't really that hard, as far as leveling is concerned. Be it FATEs, or the *obviously* more fun and exciting dungeon queues (ignore the massive sarcasm at your leisure), these games just tend to come with such issues, even when they're not hard to understand- which is pretty much most MMOs currently out there. I don't agree with the OP about the whole "gravy train" approach, but I do agree with him on the monotony of dungeons, especially after the first time, and things like FATEs that greatly help in breaking up that monotony.

It's cute to see you all hot n' bothered, though.

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Originally Posted by Derceto

For anyone to even worry remotely about people "catching up to them" in an mmo which should be around for years, is rather ridiculous actually. If there are people who are out there who actually worry about this, then I truly feel bad for them.

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Exactly, and yet there they are. They rush to 50 via FATEs and then the first thing they do is hop on forums and start screaming "OMG! NERF FATES PLEASE QUICK NERF EM NOW!"

Luckily Square is a bit smarter than that! No nerf yesterday, woohoo!

@Samich:

Exactly. All these people screaming about FATEs aren't looking at the big picture at all- it seems like ridiculous leveling right now, during the initial rush to 50... but what about after all the quests are dried up, and all that is left is monster grinding, dungeon grinding and FATEs? At least in FATEs you are running from one to the next, rushing to get tags and survive getting that mass aggro that leads to certain death, all while enjoying a conversation with party group and/or zone in general. It's a nice break from the monotony of the rest of hte game.

Once the quests run out, this will be the only reasonable way to hit 50 on a side class. To change the amount of XP it gives would be shortsighted to say the least, and would pretty much derail any attempt by square to keep us playing a single character for all our class needs. It would be better for players to start a new character and play through the story again (both for money and XP), should FATEs get changed.

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Originally Posted by Derceto

are the ones who want max level as quickly and effortlessly as possible

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You mean like those who already DID it and now have 1 or more 50s, who are now as the OP points out the largest proportion of those calling for nerfs?

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

You mean like those who already DID it and now have 1 or more 50s, who are now as the OP points out the largest proportion of those calling for nerfs?

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I'm not 50 yet and I think it needs adjusted. The reward for the amount of risk involved is WAY unbalanced.

I also think everyone cheating all the trash with a huge train to farm tomestones should be rolled back. That probably won't happen but it should.

If you really think that is why people want them nerfed then you a clueless. While there may be a few like that, people like me are worried for the long term survival of the game, the way it effects the in game economy and that people are hitting 50 without understanding how their class/job functions. The FATE system is basically like handing level 50 to people without having to put in any effort, that is not how an MMO should run. As stated by others there is not risk involved for the reward, its lazy and requires no challenge.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

You mean like those who already DID it and now have 1 or more 50s, who are now as the OP points out the largest proportion of those calling for nerfs?

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Considering that a good portion of people are already max level, ya, I think it's just mathematically conclusive to assume that the bulk of people looking for nerfs are going to be 50's. I don't read daily, numerous posts, of people trashing fates and begging for more quests and quest resets because people love fates so much.

I'm not level 50, and along with many others it seems, think fates are a boring chore and provide nothing but unwarranted rewards. I mean really..... was SE just too lazy to write more quests after level 35? Did they not think to maybe make them repeatable on other classes? Did they not think that people will level to 50 and be completely clueless of how to play aside from spamming 1 ability they learned in fates? Horrible, horrible foresight on their part.

I personally think that FATE is fine the way it is however I do fear that in 3 months or so, a vast majority will have multiple level 50s and will have run out of content prior a new patch and/or expansion which will cause some players to move on. That is not a favorable outcome of this system. Long term, I hope that any new expansions will not have FATEs in the new areas and as such players will need to have alternative options to leveling up. In this future state, new players can still use FATEs in the original areas to catch up to the existing player base.

My opinion: I think the argument that FATE leveling produces bad players while having to run (5-10 dungeons, 1 time each while leveling) makes a great player has no merit. Solo questing (minus the class quests, which even if you are FATE grinding you still have to do) doesn't magically make someone a good group player. Neither does doing a handful of dungeons while leveling. So, regardless of FATE grinding or not, people will be bad at level 50. Some will get better, others will not.

All arguing aside, I'm glad this thread was started. I hope this will be a place for people to show their support of the whole FATE concept, not just a place for people to bash each other.

i still can't for the life of me see where people are coming from with the 'fates prevent people from learning to play the game' argument.

first of all -- just stop and think for a bit. how many people do you really think are putting their main quest on hold for their first class and just grinding fates while skipping the story/dungeons? it's practically unheard of.

people grinding fates are generally people trying to level up other classes -- surprise, surprise, FATEs/dungeons are the only constant source of reliable EXP once you've run out of sidequests, leves, and guildhests. dungeons have extremely long queue times which are prohibitive to DPS players, so that isn't really an option for most of the playerbase.

new players who have yet to really learn MMO roles and expectations aren't going to skip the dungeons. but even so, the dungeons arent going to magically make people who participate them into skilled players. the best way to learn to play an MMO is to seek out optimal strategies from an external source (forums/fansites/experienced friends/etc) and perfect them.

FATEs aren't and never will be a problem that is plaguing the playerbase with some absurd inability condition. bad players exist in MMO's regardless of what systems are put in place. i suggest anyone who blames this on FATEs to get real, and to stop using a completely flawed argument.

Sucks new players wont have anyone to group up with for dungeons in a few months. Players leveling alt classes will just do fates anyway. Making it nearly impossible for a new player to advance in the story in a few months.

Don't delay your story quest, get them done now while they can still be completed.

The problem is that people is not gearing propperly, they could learn how to master their char, but what about gear? Ive seen people playing mazes with normal eqp

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Originally Posted by Calypsx

Sucks new players wont have anyone to group up with for dungeons in a few months. Players leveling alt classes will just do fates anyway. Making it nearly impossible for a new player to advance in the story in a few months.

Don't delay your story quest, get them done now while they can still be completed.

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Regardless of my opinion on FATES, this is an interesting point. Taking this point even further, aren't people saying that the main Gil source for this game is based on constant new players who are generating Gil through the story quests, and last I checked the story quests require the dungeons, hmm...

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Originally Posted by ClockworkSpectre

If you really think that is why people want them nerfed then you a clueless. While there may be a few like that, people like me are worried for the long term survival of the game, the way it effects the in game economy and that people are hitting 50 without understanding how their class/job functions. The FATE system is basically like handing level 50 to people without having to put in any effort, that is not how an MMO should run. As stated by others there is not risk involved for the reward, its lazy and requires no challenge.

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Let's be honest here, even with a more strict leveling curve, there will still be people that won't understand class/job functions. That's every MMO. FATEs are working as intended, and tbh the faster those people level to 50 the faster we find out they suck and don't group with them. Everyone thinks it is the responsibility of the community to train others, but in reality it isn't. It's a game, not a job.

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Originally Posted by Acaelus

Let's be honest here, even with a more strict leveling curve, there will still be people that won't understand class/job functions. That's every MMO.

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You are right with that. Plenty of people always choose the path of least resistance. FATEs are that at the moment for FFXIV RR. The suckiness of some players isn't because of the leveling speed per se though, but because of the irrelevance of gear and skill in FATEs. They don't really teach anything beyond which are your character's most spam-friendly skills as soon as the number of player participants exceeds half a dozen. I don't think SE intended to make FATEs such huge group Whack-a-Moles. The scaling doesn't work.

Most of the arguing in this forum is born from pro/con current leveling speed which is pretty fast even by modern MMO standards. I think the real issue lies in leveling speed only when it's compared to the effort, gear and skill that it takes in comparison to other options. FATE participation should be at least a good deal more hazardous via proper enemy scaling mechanisms (or a good deal less rewarding via proper XP scaling mechanisms if the participant/FATE challenge level rate is too much off. Such an outrage, I know). I don't want things to be any easier than what they are already.

I will say the reason I enjoy FATEs is one, I want to rank up in my grand company as well as get the gear, without having to wait for weeks to obtain it through provisions or FC Leves. Also, and I get this might sound like a slacker answer, but I roll a paladin main, but I am love the Warrior Relic Armor, instead of leveling both tank classes through dungeons and storylines, I level my MRD with FATEs, with pally gets the more devoted treatment, since if I am ever doing content, I will obviously pick Paladin over Warrior. That, and leveling both Tank jobs one after the other through dungeons seems like such a bore.

@Stormsoul
Actually all six of my friends completely dropped their main quests to FATE spam lol

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Originally Posted by MLew0032

@Stormsoul
Actually all six of my friends completely dropped their main quests to FATE spam lol

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I see nothing wrong with that.

A) they have to do those quests eventually to unlock the dungeons. Whether now or later, they will do that story.
B) only thing they miss out on doing that is normal quests, and those don't teach you to play any more than fate spamming
C) you can do the whole story without cliffhanger or interruption. The game plays more like a Final Fantasy game when you save a bulk of the story for 50.

First, I want to point out that I hate grinding fates. It's extremely boring and alienating.

Said so...
Don't nerf fates.
Buff dungeon exp. Buff leves exp. Buff mob grinding exp.
Give us *choices*.

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Originally Posted by Fuz

First, I want to point out that I hate grinding fates. It's extremely boring and alienating.

Said so...
Don't nerf fates.
Buff dungeon exp. Buff leves exp. Buff mob grinding exp.
Give us *choices*.

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FATEs need to be nerfed. They need to cut the experience earned by half. Then they need to take that experience and spread it evenly between guild leves and guildhests. Dungeon experience isn't that bad, but they need to improve the dungeon loot tables so people earn more gil by running them.

If they do it your way, then the speed of leveling will be even faster than it is now. By leaving the overall amount of experience available at the same level, but spreading it out more evenly between all of the activities in the game (guild leves, guildhests, dungeons) then more options for leveling will exist. Right now FATEs are the only viable (time vs reward) option.

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Originally Posted by Fuz

First, I want to point out that I hate grinding fates. It's extremely boring and alienating.

Said so...
Don't nerf fates.
Buff dungeon exp. Buff leves exp. Buff mob grinding exp.
Give us *choices*.

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Probably the most sensible and reasonable post I've seen so far, compounded by you not being a fan of the actual play style. +1 internets to you

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Originally Posted by Papamax

FATEs need to be nerfed... Right now FATEs are the only viable (time vs reward) option.

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This seems to be the main argument for nerfing the FATE system, but the claim that FATE grinding is the only viable option (time vs reward) relies on incorrect assumptions:

1. Experience is the only significant reward; story progression, exploration, item acquisition, and adventuring in general are of minimal value.
2. FATE participation is an exclusive and continuous activity that cannot be done in combination with any other form of leveling.

Clearly, neither of these are true, so I don't understand why people are taking such an extreme viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by Mitski

This seems to be the main argument from everyone complaining about the FATE system, but the claim that FATE grinding is the only viable option (time vs reward) relies on incorrect assumptions:

1. Experience is the only significant reward; story progression, exploration, item acquisition, and adventuring in general are of minimal value.
2. FATE participation is an exclusive and continuous activity that cannot be done in combination with any other form of leveling.

Clearly, neither of these are true, so I don't understand why people are taking such an extreme viewpoint.

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And people would be more than happy to do other things if dungeon, leve and guildhest xp was boosted to the point that it was rewarding to do so. Leveling purely on those 3, however, would take months for a single character. It would be more lucrative to level multiple characters using quests and story quests, thus sleeping the entire multi-class system in the face.

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

And people would be more than happy to do other things if dungeon, leve and guildhest xp was boosted to the point that it was rewarding to do so. Leveling purely on those 3, however, would take months for a single character. It would be more lucrative to level multiple characters using quests and story quests, thus sleeping the entire multi-class system in the face.

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You are exaggerating here, dungeon xp is only slightly slower than FATEs.

Enough to be noticeable, not enough to take 4x as long. At worst, it might be about half as fast, but generally I find with a good group the xp is comparable.

If you find a good/sociable group, it's a lot more fun and refreshing to do a few dungeons in between your FATE grind.

Though grinding dungeons is just as bad, and the grind in general in this game is awful =(

I completely agree though that leves and hests are beyond worthless.

They are just so, so awful. At least give them the 50% xp boost that FATEs and dungeons get once you reach max...ugh.

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

And people would be more than happy to do other things if dungeon, leve and guildhest xp was boosted to the point that it was rewarding to do so. Leveling purely on those 3, however, would take months for a single character. It would be more lucrative to level multiple characters using quests and story quests, thus sleeping the entire multi-class system in the face.

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You're setting up a comparison between 2 extreme (and exaggerated) positions. If you want to have a serious discussion, let's be serious:

It would not take months to level without FATE exp.

Leveling methods are not all or nothing, so there's no reason to force the discussion into all FATE vs no FATE.

You're still assuming there's no value to doing any activity besides how much exp/hour it yields.

Leveling multiple characters would forfeit all multi-class benefits - cross class abilities, bonus exp, shared equipment, early chocobo, etc.

Yes thank you for fates. I also made some friends while doing fate trains.

Effective, but beyond braindead. I dont understand people that defend these things, if you take out the leveling speed they are TERRIBLE game content.