Retrying the same Leve Quest

It is common pratice for players to have a static group who have the same leves, they make sure to link all of their leves to get the max SP, then fail the leve after killing all but the last require monster for the leve, this insures they can retry the leve in 2 days when the leves reset. Once the reset happens they repeat this action, which insures the maximum ammount of SP from leves every 2 days by doing the same leve's over and over, with out ever completing them.

My question is:
Is this pratice ok, or is it viewd as an offence?

Platform: Windows
Date & Time: 27Apr2011 0600
Frequency: none for me
Character Name: Dragon Haven
Race: Highlander
World: Trabia
Class/Skill Rank: 44/lancer
Physical Level: 46
Area and Coordinates: the world
Party or Solo: both
NPC Name: n/a
Monster Name: n/a
In-Game Time: n/a

It has been mentioned many times that this is ok to do, and over many threads. the only exploit with leve abandonment has been fixed (Faction NM leves)

There is another thread where it is posited that this has been allowed by Square Enix:

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

The fact is this has been going on for a very long time and SE are well aware of that and have done nothing to stop it so it is not an "exploit". As Applepie stated "actual exploits" of spawning endless mobs and the spamming buffs to get crazy SP were dealt with by SE as soon as they were aware. They have done nothing to stop the abandoning of Leve's, why? Because it is not an exploit that's why.

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Originally Posted by Reika

We have only the dev team to blame for that ^^. But since they have authorized it, people will do it until it becomes unnecessary to do it.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Ok so this is like the umpeenth thread on this, it surfaces as a new one every other friggin week

but let me sum up what EVERY OTHER thread on it has stated

1) This is not a exploit, it is not a bug, its reward vs sp, you sacrifice the reward to get more sp
2) The devs added this on purpose, it isnt an accident
3) people will always whine about something they dont agree with

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post103745


It seems people are basing this on an interview where the developers said it was OK to do this. I could not find the source of this.

It would be good if they would address this directly saying it is part of the system or it is an exploit, do not do this.

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Honestly I am good at the English language and this is just as confusing as another language. I cannot get a grasp on the content let alone the subject!

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Yea I agree something official would be nice.

In game GM says "It's ok to do since the ABANDON feature is there, as long as it does not adversely affect other players or cause one player to gain a significant advantage it will not result in an infraction"

In other words this is allowed, and since it's available to everyone its not going to give you any advantage over anyone else.

Example: the infinite runestones for no faction points exploit.

do you have a screenshot of this becasue it seems that we are being ignored by the GMs here

I don't believe I have one but let me check :)

thank you Haru its been 72hrs since this was posted, ive followed the steps given to me by SE customer service over the phone and then followed the instructions passed to me by a GM premade message, Im hoping Xophious or Baccanale will give us a heads up and put this to rest.

So it's not a bug. However, I feel SE should close this loophole. I don't think there should be any reward for intentionally failing.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

So it's not a bug. However, I feel SE should close this loophole. I don't think there should be any reward for intentionally failing.

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There is no reward for intentionally failing though, that's the point. By agreeing to fail the leve, we who do lose the chance to be awarded any reward/faction points/gil associated with completing the leve. By forfeiting our rewards, we have the option to re-do the leve during the next reset.

There is nothing wrong with this action, regardless of some players having issues with it, it was installed by SE and has been constantly proven to be an acceptable practice.

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Originally Posted by Belial

There is no reward for intentionally failing though, that's the point. By agreeing to fail the leve, we who do lose the chance to be awarded any reward/faction points/gil associated with completing the leve. By forfeiting our rewards, we have the option to re-do the leve during the next reset.

There is nothing wrong with this action, regardless of some players having issues with it, it was installed by SE and has been constantly proven to be an acceptable practice.

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I know I've said it before somewhere, but I can't find the post now. From my view, the problem is that the "reward" for the leves is often worthless, and many people view the real reward of a leve to be the SP they gain from it. With gil as easy to get as it is, who's going to care if they don't get the 5k gil, when they've gotten 10k SP instead? I think if SP for leves was balanced and the rewards were made more significant, this wouldn't be done nearly as much. I don't like the intentional leve failing, but unfortunately, until these issues are fixed it will continue.

once again the same thing. how many times do people have to go and find the post and put it up for people to be able to understand it? i have seen this same topic posted at least 5 times in the last week or so and no matter how many times we pull up the info and post it someone just stops posting in one thread and makes another. i'm not going to bother even looking up the info again.

the info has been posted many times and a simple search of the forums should find all you want to see even though you may not agree with it, but se has said it is acceptable.

Greetings Dragonhaven!

First, please allow me to apologize, it seems we did indeed miss your question. Fortunately, it appears other members were able to advise you on this concern. At this time, I will go ahead and move this thread to the General Discussion area as it was more of a policy question. Also, please feel free to leave feedback on this concern if you would like. This can be done at the following link under Suggestions & Feedback.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...hp?id=902&la=1

Thank you for your understanding and my apologies for the delay in a response!

-=Game Master Emdub=-

It's not really rewarding intentionally failing - the players are succeeding at killing (almost) all the monsters...it's giving you an option to choose what your reward is. Do you want to be allowed do the leve again? Or do you want your faction points and gil/item/marks? It's an active tradeoff being made. Personally, I'll take my faction points thank you!

I've been scouring Lodestone for the better part of 40 minutes and I can't come up with the answer (so it may have been in an interview, but I'm fairly sure it was not).

This is what [something] said in a paraphrase to the best of my recollection.

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The reason you must wait for a reset to re-issue failed leves is so players don't fail them on purpose and re-issue them immediately to continue to grind SP on leves.

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That statement says to me (and mind you its a paraphrase, I can't find the quote or I'd be planting it in ALL of these threads everywhere) that they were aware upon implementing Guildleves that people would fail them to grind SP rather than accept the rewards of Gil & Faction Points, so they made sure there was a limiter in place (of 36 hours).

Therefore, they are aware of it and compensated for it already. No further QQng needs to flood the forums. There's no need to misconstrue my paraphrase to mean they don't WANT us to fail leves. They simply didn't want us to fail & retry immediately. 36 hours is enough of a wait according to SE in some mythical post I can't find.

As a contrast, I'm pretty sure in Beta or Alpha you could reissue failed leves much faster than 36 hours. (Maybe it was a post on the Beta forums? Man, idk).

I'm sorry I can't find it because it would be great to throw down on the table whenever this pops up 1/week.

Nice to see them pushing this off once again as "not a bug or exploit" and moving it here

Do we need more proof on what some of u have been saying for months now that it isnt an exploit?

The leve re-using is okay. But the penalty (by which I mean the worth of faction leves in general) needs to be greater. At current there's not much deterrence from giving up the small wealth in return for insane SP.

Well i think the mod moving it to general discussion is one major indicator that it isnt an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

They practice is okay. But the penalty (by which I mean the worth of faction leves in general) needs to be greater. At current there's not much deterrence from giving up the small wealth in return for insane SP.

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SP, Items, Gil, marks, and faction points are the sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by Reika

SP, Items, Gil, marks, and faction points are the sacrifice.

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you definately start to notice the faction point loss too

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Originally Posted by Verecund

The leve re-using is okay. But the penalty (by which I mean the worth of faction leves in general) needs to be greater. At current there's not much deterrence from giving up the small wealth in return for insane SP.

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Now this I agree with.

And LOL because I didn't know this was originally on the bug/exploit page. Haha. Self-solving riddle.

What's the problem anyways? Why would some see it as an offense?

before long we will have a post complaining "blah blah this person played 5 straight hours and i can only play 2 so he shouldn't get but 2 hours of sp or else he will leave me behind"

"oh it's so unfair you shouldn't be able to grind mobs for hours straight and get sp. you should only get drops off them.....no wait then you would be richer and get craft levels up higher.....se should just sign you out once you get to my set limit of time i can play"

this is the point we are getting to now. no i am not pointing this at any one person. this is in general the tone that anything they cannot or do not want to do is some how against some tos morality clause they believe SHOULD be in game, but is not.

Of course its not an exploit its built into the game.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Of course its not an exploit its built into the game.

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sometimes things built in are exploits

this isnt one of them


they are very obvious when they are though(like the faction one)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

sometimes things built in are exploits

this isnt one of them


they are very obvious when they are though(like the faction one)

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yes, the faction one and the spam heal one both were, but they found them and fixed them quickly. they know about this one and haven't fixed it. there's a reason. thevids it right about why btw. it's because it's not.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, the faction one and the spam heal one both were, but they found them and fixed them quickly. they know about this one and haven't fixed it. there's a reason. thevids it right about why btw. it's because it's not.

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in the case of this one, its cuz getting SP a bit fater, for an hour tops, every 36 hours...isnt really a benefit, and thats literaly what people are complaining about

i get 20k SP more per hour, for a single hour, every 36 hours(30k per hour grinding raptors compared to 50k for doing these leves)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

sometimes things built in are exploits

this isnt one of them


they are very obvious when they are though(like the faction one)

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Explain the faction one to me please I'm not familiar.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Explain the faction one to me please I'm not familiar.

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Start the faction NM leve with a group
abandon it
retake it
and still be able to get the end reward token

this let you do it every 36 hours without spending more faction tokens to get the leve again

now THAT is an exploit even though it was built in at the time

I still don't agree with it. You intentionally fail it, get the opportunity to do it again, and get more outrageous sp. It techniquely is rewarding failure. If you could choose at the end to get gil or like 5k sp, then that'd be different since you are actually completing the leve. Or they could just not let you retry the leve on next reset since they are so simple to begin with...

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I still don't agree with it. You intentionally fail it, get the opportunity to do it again, and get more outrageous sp. It techniquely is rewarding failure. If you could choose at the end to get gil or like 5k sp, then that'd be different since you are actually completing the leve. Or they could just not let you retry the leve on next reset since they are so simple to begin with...

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you dont have to agree with it

but you do gotta accept the fact people do it and it IS legal

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you dont have to agree with it

but you do gotta accept the fact people do it and it IS legal

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I didn't say it wasn't legal. I said I don't agree with it, and I don't accept it nor never will. You are getting rewarded for failure.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I didn't say it wasn't legal. I said I don't agree with it, and I don't accept it nor never will. You are getting rewarded for failure.

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Although I got to admit we're about to argue semantics...

You don't get rewarded for failing. You get SP for killing mobs, just like you would get SP for killing every mob that isn't an NM. The reward pops up on the reward screen with Gil, Faction Points and Bonus (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been so long since I completed a leve). You don't get any reward. You simply get skill gain for killing a monster. The fact that you get more SP for taking the leve than you would killing Goats or Gnats in the wild is rather irrelevant.

You CAN (37-50) get SP on par with Leve-fail technique. You can get 40k per hour in a good group fighting the right mobs. Some mobs (peiste) are worth more SP than others, which is obvious when you do Dunesfolk for Dinner - and how you receive more SP for that Leve than most others based on the base SP of a Peiste.

Anyway, it's 1 alternative. You can grind and do comparably if you know what to look for and where to look - again, in those upper levels. I'm not sure about 25-37 because I haven't done that range on anything but leves ... ever. ^^

Anyhow you don't get more exp because you fail and repeat the same leve, it's mostly because you link with many ppl who have the same leve. The point of abandoning is to make sure you and your group of static friends get the same leve again and you can link it again. Sometimes you don't even need to abandon it, the same leve will mostly likely pop again on counter soon enough, abandoning is just assuring you get it back on next reset. If there would be more variety of leves I'm sure there will be static ones just like Momodi's crafting leves which are there for eternity, so you would'nt even need to abandon any.

Another way to always get Dunes is to not run your leves every reset :D This way I always have it saved or have it to pick up!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Start the faction NM leve with a group
abandon it
retake it
and still be able to get the end reward token

this let you do it every 36 hours without spending more faction tokens to get the leve again

now THAT is an exploit even though it was built in at the time

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Thats already been fixed.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Thats already been fixed.

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i know it was, he was asking what the exploit was that i was talking about

I said this before and ill say it again.
I dont care about the SP as much as i care im doing something meaningful with my linkshell group in the way to 50.
Doing leves no-linked is a big waste of time and people stop doing it becouse there is no point to do so that way.
When leve linking you can advance with your group at a steady rate while strengthening the bonds with your static and friends.This game lacks group activities , this is a good group activity.

Say what you want but i enjoy doing leve link with my buddies more than anything in this game.
If you guys want to blame someone , blame SE for making such weak mechanics where failure gets rewarded .They should just let you choose what leves you want to do , so you can organize leve link parties better, and not this random thin we got now, that encourages failure in order to have the same leve as everyone else in your group.