impossible to win to whoever has ping more than 100. Titan cast aoe spell 2 sec and you lag 1 sec behind. 1 sec is not enough for u to run out of big aoe... SE should make an ingame ping check so I won't waste my time while I lag.
titan hard (hard for high latency)
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09-07-2013, 06:58 PMeyeshield99titan hard (hard for high latency)
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09-07-2013, 07:23 PMJynxii
I had a friend pulled it off at 160 ping without getting hit by his pools. I'm not saying higher latency doesn't make some encounters and mechanics harder, but when others are complaining about 100ms causing them to get hit by stuff, when people with higher latency manage to pull it off just fine, things really need to be questioned.
A lot of mechanics become quite predictable and even randomly placed mechanics can be estimated in their timing and prepared for. -
09-07-2013, 07:31 PMAzrael
Can't believe people must defend something that's actually really wrong.
If you run the game at 260 ms (like me), YES you will have some serious issues, aoe's are not there to get you oneshotted before you actually notice them.
When you play with something that can instant kill you, you need a fast response, don't have to predict what will happen and survive just for luck. -
09-07-2013, 07:32 PMyukikaze_yanagiYes. Your internet connection is really wrong in factQuote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
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09-07-2013, 07:37 PMAzraelNo, my internet connection is not wrong, I live in Italy and servers are in Canada, that's happening just because we don't have a real EU server, where NA people ping 20 ms.Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
I can play smoothly on any other MMO at around 30-40 ms, because they got EU servers, while SE don't give a shit about EU players
Edit: looks like you are italian too, so we got the same connection.
Nice to see you confirming that some people must defend the indifendible, I'm pretty sure you ping about the same as me. -
09-07-2013, 07:46 PMAriaS
People could pull off the hard fights in v1 too despite the high latency but just because some can doesn't mean they should have to, makes the fight that little bit harder. Had issues on Titan myself, most of the time I can avoid but 1/10 I will get hit and had one lag spike bad enough in Duty Finder that I was walking on the bottom for a good 2 seconds before dieing.
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09-07-2013, 07:47 PMLunarEmerald
Titan does have a pattern to his attacks and if you know the attack is coming and move beforehand, you should be able to dodge it almost every single time. Sometimes you do get trapped though.
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09-07-2013, 07:47 PMJynxiiI live in Australia and have my own latency issues, and I can still manage just fine (for the most part). A lot of the mechanics become incredibly predictable after you have done it a few times. Things like Titan's pools that spawn at random places are definitely harder to avoid, but they still come at relatively predictable timers. Hell, I'm sure when they enable modding someone will come up with something akin to WoW's "Deadly Boss Mods" that will give a warning before the pools spawn so you won't have to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
I was actually arguing against people who whine about 130ms and how it makes the game 'impossible' when players like myself play at double that. It is even worse when people on lower latency perform worse than those on higher latency, but still cry lag.
There is only so much that can be blamed on latency, the rest is poor positioning, failing to adapt, or people not being as good as they think they are. -
09-07-2013, 07:51 PMEunysThis is all that has to be said. Any MMO under 300ms is more then playable. People do it everyday even people in top in guilds in other MMOs. Stop being bad and blaming a data center location for your own short comings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
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09-07-2013, 07:54 PMAzraelI'm sure you can't manage anymore after the heart phase when things start to be faster?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
Latency isn't supposed to be an additional level of difficulty to titan, NA/JP people get it easy to fight, for others is just harder.
Oh btw, just noticed you live in Australia but you play on a JP server, much closer to you.
Nice try in trying to make your point. -
09-07-2013, 08:10 PMJynxiiAnd yet it is. I'm happy that in just about every other MMO you've had European servers, and have had the luxury of low latency, however if you game from Australia, you're always looking at 200-300ms. Does it suck? God yes. Has ANY company put in a system to counter this? No. You learn to deal with it, and it is possible to deal with. I've yet to encounter truly random mechanics that can't be attributed to a pattern or specific timings, thus making them predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
I'm not arguing that the difficulty of Titan's last phase isn't made harder, but the patterns exist. I reiterate; latency can be blamed to a certain degree, however it can be overcome with good positioning, skill and adaptability.
When low latency players fail Titan, it is because they're actually bad? Does having high latency and failing make you inherently better or more skilled than players with low latency that fail? -
09-07-2013, 08:12 PMDazor
It's just annoying when people rag on you for getting hit by an aoe that is next to impossible to avoid because of lag. EU screwed again tbh.
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09-07-2013, 08:13 PMJynxiiAnd yet some Australian ISPs actually get worse latency to JP servers than they do NA servers. You do realise latency isn't based solely on geographical locations right? Especially when it crosses oceans. You also imply that I have never played any other MMO which hasn't had JP servers. Hot tip: Most MMOs (that reach the western market) get European and NA servers only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Nice try attempting to discredit me in order to support your points though.
Edit: Also like to highlight that players with significantly lower latency than what even the best AU connections achieve to JP servers complain about latency being the big factor for why they fail things. I'd love to play with 100ms (in any MMO), but a life of ~260ms is what most Australians get in most MMOs.
This is a great example of why bad/average players never get better; they blame everything completely on lag, ignore any of their short comings, and don't attempt to come up with ways to work around what they can't change. -
09-07-2013, 08:14 PMAzraelI'll turn your question to you in another way. Who is better: player that can beat the content with 20 ms, or players that can beat the same content with 200ms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
After you answer that, also answer: Why? -
09-07-2013, 08:21 PMAzraelRight, I'm pretty sure you choose JP server just because you like playing with them, with a huge language barrier, prefering them to an english speaking server, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
Surely not because of latency, right?
Ok. -
09-07-2013, 08:40 PMJynxiiI don't think it is a simple matter of "higher latency players are better because they have to beat latency and the boss!". I think there are other challenges that higher latency players have to deal with, but the encounters themselves still require certain positioning, skill and reaction times, even on low latency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
The way I see it, you develop an extra 'skill/ability' to be able to factor in the latency to the mechanics, and maybe you 'have' to pay a little more attention to the patterns/timing since you have less time to react, but whether or not that makes you a better player I can't say. For me personally, it is just something I do now, because it has always been this way. Would this make me a better player if I moved to lower latency? Maybe. Players with higher familiarity or awareness of boss mechanics and positioning always seem to do more successfully than those who lack such things, assuming all things are equal of course. -
09-07-2013, 08:44 PMEunysOk now you are just a troll. You do know they have some of the worse Internet in the world right? Nobody makes servers for them either because of their politics getting in the way. Do you also know distance isn't the largest factor in latency? Many EU countries are closer to the Datacenter in Canada then people in parts of NA them-self. Please stop pushing blame for your being bad on SE or others and make yourself a better player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
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09-07-2013, 08:44 PMCyriac_DarakusPlease read what was said. what Jynxii is saying is that some Australian ISP's get worse latency on JP servers the reason for this is where the ISP will route to first (Some go to NA first). That being said I believe this game is very punishing to higher latency players. Most MMO's I've played I have never had many issues avoiding Generic Ground Based Attack A yet this game seems to be a bit different. I can't tell if the other games cater for the latency with longer cast times and FFXIV ARR does not or if their is something in the design of the content. This may be better answer by someone who is used to playing on a low MS ping time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Edit: LOL @ The multiple replies to the one post within minutes of each other. -
09-07-2013, 08:47 PMAzraelExactly, so it also work the other way around, it's harder for people with higher latency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
Plus you got the same problem as me/us with latency, not having a server in your region, I really don't see why you are against this topic. -
09-07-2013, 08:51 PMJynxiiFor the record, Tonberry has a HUGE Oceanic player base, and even I'm surprised by how many English speaking players are on the server. Latency was definitely a defining factor, but as I mentioned, some Australian ISPs get the good end of the stick (~160ms) and others get the bad end (~270ms). Incidentally those who get better latency on the JP servers get worse on the NA servers, while those with worse latency on the JP servers get better on the NA servers. I personally get ~210-230ms, which I am happy with and can play with just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
Again I never said latency didn't make it harder, just that it can be overcome if you consciously decide to try and do so. Unless you have the resources to host/maintain a data centre in Europe, currently, the latency isn't going to go anywhere. -
09-07-2013, 08:55 PMLivildaI don't really think you understand what those numbers mean. 100 ping means 100 milliseconds. There are 1000 milliseconds in a second. That means a message takes one tenth of a second to make a round trip from your computer to the world server and back. That means with 100 ping, you have 1.9 seconds to react, not 1. That means you are either lying, or bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeshield99
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09-07-2013, 09:07 PMilJumperMT
WTB EU Datacenter
I noticed sometimes I get hit from Titan ground attack when I am at least 10 meters away from it. -
09-07-2013, 09:10 PMThundajaThe average human reaction time is ~.7-.8 ms so in fact they have about 1.2 seconds to respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Livilda
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09-07-2013, 09:11 PMJynxiiThe difference is that I've been experiencing this problem since I've started playing MMOs, and instead of letting the latency ruin my experience, I took it upon myself to try and work with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael
How can you over come latency? Acknowledge the delay and adapting to it would be a good start. Positioning is even more crucial as any delay will likely mean you have less time to react, for a number of reasons. By far, some mechanics are easier to overcome with these tactics, but when all else fails, you have to rely on the predictability of most MMO boss encounters. If Titan's pools come 15 seconds after his line AoE, start moving 14 seconds after the line AoE. Yes some times you'll still get caught out, and these aren't fool proof in anyway but it is better than sitting on your hands waiting on a European data center, right?
Heck, I can even walk into AoEs as they 'go off' on my screen because I can reliably predict when it is going off server side because of being extensively exposed to 'crippling' lag that makes encounters 'impossible'.
Edit: For the record, I am not saying that you're a bad player, just that there are probably things you haven't tried/exhausted that are within your power given the situation. If you can host/maintain a data center in Europe, then you could probably get the latency fixed, however if you can't this 'issue' is likely to be around for awhile. -
09-07-2013, 09:21 PMRillifane
Got to love how some EU players think they speak for everyone in terms of latency and getting hit with attacks, in the entire game i can list off only 2 AoE based attacks that hit me 90% of the time even though i move out of them straight away, and guess what these attacks also hit all east coast NA and people in canada too. First boss of Wanderer's Palace his spit attack hits people fairly often even if they run out of the AoE straight away, and the chimera fight for relic, his cones and small ice aoe hits people that move out of them often too and chances are both of those are down to an error in their programming which will be fixed.
Oh and i don't even use fibre optic adsl ftw >.> -
09-07-2013, 09:22 PMRisae
Square doesnt care, now move on.
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09-07-2013, 09:39 PMmeuqsaco
The fight is easy only for people actually in NA. I have 200ms latency and even though on my screen I always dodge it, I get hit anyway. The AOE ring has to be checked client side, but SE is famous for having crappy connections, so I don't expect it.
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09-07-2013, 09:43 PMHumsterMKX
Well unless they increase the time before those AOE goes off, there is like no way ppl with high latency can cope with it. Moreover, it not only affect this fight, all fights involving AOE is an issue 1 way or another.
There is no way out for this problem. To those who said tgey dont have such problem, well good for you. I know ppl that suffer from this problem. -
09-07-2013, 09:54 PMMenubrea
I think most of the issues people are having isn't mainly related to latency, but server refresh rate. Since it's all being handled server side with a .3 seconds positional check, you'll often find yourself screwed over by it. In most cases you're able to compensate by being able to predict and anticipate enemy telegraphs, while in other cases it's borderline impossible to avoid. I've had times where telegraphs hit me even though I was on the move as it targets me, in this case human error is completely removed and it still wasn't enough. My 240 ms only adds insult to injury, of course.
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09-07-2013, 09:55 PMJynxiiSo people with similar (higher) latency and are managing are either wrong, lying, or just straight up lucky? I guess some groups that reliably clear HM Titan and sit on higher latency must be using up all the luck from the rest of the players. Please keep telling yourself this; it would be unfair if you had to actually adapt to your situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by HumsterMKX
As a side note: Square, please don't dumb down boss mechanics because people 'lag' and fail to actually attempt to better themselves or their tactics to complete the encounters, even though they suffer from the 'impossible' 200ms threshold. Pretty sure every other MMO over the last 5-6 years have catered for this crowd already and some of us actually like the challenge. -
09-07-2013, 10:02 PMDazusuThe average human reaction time is a fraction of a millisecond? Like, 7 thousandths of a second? I think you mean .7-.8 [sec], not [ms].Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundaja
Pedantic, I know :P -
09-07-2013, 10:12 PMHumsterMKXThey did it. Good for them. They did on high latency more power to them. They won by luck, skills, not my problem at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
But I do have problems with ppl claiming latency is not an issue and everyone else that said otherwise should learn to play and shut up.
Reminds me of 1.0 Ifrit extreme fights. Ppl still say latency is not an issue even after SE said it is. -
09-07-2013, 10:21 PMJynxiiI'm not sure where people claimed latency wasn't an issue? When a game is designed to be challenging at lower latency, of course it'll pose a problem at higher latencies. There are two issues as a whole, and one doesn't apply to you (people on ~100ms saying latency makes the mechanics impossible), however attributing 100% of failing something to latency, unless you're sitting on 400+ms, and I'd even be generous and say 300+ms, is removing any responsibility on the players part. It also ignores that anything can be done to counteract or balance the latency (I can move into AoE as they 'go off', wouldn't be able to do that on 30ms). You have to work harder, and that sucks and is unfair or whatever, but can you magically change the latency? No, so you do what you can to deal with it. Alternatively you can complain about it and not clear content; To quote you, 'not my problem'.Quote:
Originally Posted by HumsterMKX
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09-07-2013, 10:37 PMHeavell
have 340+ ping to Monstreal and in game 410 and i've made video for my FC to show how terrible my latency for titan (hard) fight...
the fight itself is still possible to win with high ping, you just need to move before he does any skills especially weight of the land and you have to do exploit moves/ position :)
What im afraid most is... titan extreme version someday :/ -
09-07-2013, 10:54 PMHumsterMKXAnd what makes you think OP didnt try to compensate for lag? You played with him or others that complained?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
O ya op, forgotten to give you a heads up, look at your digital clock home, focus on the time it takes for 1 sec to pass, try and create an artifical timeframe. After you left an AOE zone time the distance in which you still get hit after you left that zone. Now use that timeframe to your advantage.
You can try out the timing by fight mobs that does AOE, Garleans, those lizard snake thingy, etc.
It helps a lot for me back in 1.0. It should help. Dont wait for the problem to go away, because it wouldnt, lessen by some extent yes. But going away, you might need to move next to the servers -
09-07-2013, 10:54 PMRillifaneSo are you saying everything should be adjusted so bad players can complete it?Quote:
Originally Posted by HumsterMKX
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09-07-2013, 10:56 PMHumsterMKX310+ ping.... Ya well thats what my German LSmate got from German to Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavell
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09-07-2013, 10:57 PMHumsterMKXAnd what makes you think they are bad players?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rillifane
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09-07-2013, 10:57 PMAzraellol @ people like you quoting single lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rillifane
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09-07-2013, 11:03 PMRillifaneBecause you claimed it's not a problem that skillful players can dodge AoE's their-fore by logic that bad people are being hit by them so things need to be adjusted so the bads can get out of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HumsterMKX
lol@ you too because the rest of his post wasn't even worth quoting at all. I got to love how people who have fibre optic are claiming about having AoE problems on every fight yet me with basic ADSL going through a copper phone line can dodge them, it sounds like people need to consult their ISP's and make sure the quality of service being provided for your speeds is being kept top notice or you aren't being affected by this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...P2P-throttlingQuote:
Originally Posted by Azrael