Either make dodging AoEs possible, or make them not instant-kills

Stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

EDIT: That video isn't me, nor is it made by me. It's just an example of this awful mechanic.

Is incredibly tiresome. If you're not going to do the job right and fix the awful latency on enemy AoE attacks, reduce the penalty for getting hit by them. Also note that I'm playing from Canada. This isn't just an issue for people playing in countries far away from the data centre, this is a problem that exists no matter where you are.

Titan's AoE doesn't kill you. It's the knockback coming after.

...Titan just wants to play, you know. Being so many years alone.

...

Now serious, I'm completely of a mind here. Most of the time I'm better recieving the damage from the AoE than attempting to run. Sometimes there's no Stropperchances to even survive. Specially when another player is battling a Stropper and hsi AoE is facing you. Anytime the AoE area is on my screen, it is already too late to avoid if I wasn't moving already.

My most recent fit of rage was repeatedly dying goregimera's AoEs, despite being on the complete opposite side of him.

If it's not worth our time to even try to dodge AoE attacks, at least make the punishment for it represent that.

Yes, the amount of delay in the game is absurd, sometimes there is .5s delay, and sometimes its a whole 2s+ delay. They really really need to fix it. If you do not move out of something immediately, you're dead, even though there should be a "cast time" in order for you to move out of it last second.

Are you playing on a server not near your own location. Like NA playing on JP servers or something? Because that could cause the problem with dodging aoe.

I'm west coast playing on a west coast server. With amazing internet as well

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

My most recent fit of rage was repeatedly dying goregimera's AoEs, despite being on the complete opposite side of him.

If it's not worth our time to even try to dodge AoE attacks, at least make the punishment for it represent that.

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games engine works different than other games

you have to be out of the red circle before it disappears. if you aren't, you could teleport 50 yards away and still get hit. my guess is server just takes a snapshot of your character's location when the visual cue disappears.

chimeras are just punks, sorry

Ya I was trying Ifrit hard mode earlier tonight and at one point he did his charge on one side of the room, I ran clear to the other side of the room and died to it. A few times he'd do his plumes in the center and I'd die while at the edge of the room. It's annoying, sometimes I understand it's me not reacting fast enough, but in general it's infuriating.

I've had a topic running on this for a while now.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...beating-titan.

And a bug report:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-many-players.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

games engine works different than other games

you have to be out of the red circle before it disappears. if you aren't, you could teleport 50 yards away and still get hit. my guess is server just takes a snapshot of your character's location when the visual cue disappears.

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There's no valid reason why I should be getting hit by an attack when I've left the marker long before it goes off. As I said, I've managed to run far, far away from an AoE before the cue disappears, and I've still gotten hit.

All they'd have to do is have the information concerning whether the player is hit in relation to enemy AoEs handled clientside.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Are you playing on a server not near your own location. Like NA playing on JP servers or something? Because that could cause the problem with dodging aoe.

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The video in the OP is an NA player on a Canadian server, quite clearly. Please don't pretend this is simply a ping issue. It's clearly not.

personally im not a fan of one shot mechanics, they are simple and not complicated, and not hard, complex mechanics makes a harder fight, last boss in qarn has complex mechanics and great fun, shock horror, no one shot mechanic.
on the subject, instead of one shot mechanics, if you get hit for what ever reason, make it leave a debuff that just gets worse and worse if you get hit, something that slows you down, or leaves a dot that if you are near to other players, it damages them as well, this mechanic will be harder say if you had a mechanic where the group needs to stack at some point. see how this alone is more interesting, then just die in 1 hit

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Originally Posted by Faction

The video in the OP is an NA player on a Canadian server, quite clearly. Please don't pretend this is simply a ping issue. It's clearly not.

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I am a NA player playing on a NA server and have never, ever experienced something so drastic as in the video. 99% of the time if I get hit by something, it is clearly my fault for not reacting fast enough. I have done Titan (hardmode and otherwise) probably 80 times and never experienced something this bad.

In this particular case, I will almost guarantee it was ping.

There are some issues, though.

You guys need to learn how to dodge AOE in this game so here is the tutorial...

There is a cast bar that goes with every aoe. IF any part of you is even remotely in the AOE at the end of that AOE you will get hit. You can keep running and be 3 million feet from the end by the time the move actually goes off (*after cast animation) but you will get hit by it.

The damage DOES NOT register based on the cast animation, instead it registers based on when the cast bar ends.

There is no delay, there is no server latency (you may personally have bad internet but thats not SE's problem) I promise you I have done every dungeon in the game and if you are out of the red mark when the cast bar ends you will not take the damage.

The problem isn't the game it is your skill/reaction time. Don't blame the game for your short comings... just handle it like an adult and get better.

As for the video the dude is way inside the line when the move is registered and has his back facing the edge. He could a turn and get thrown the other direction or B run when the cast bar starts. The problem with him being the healer is that he doesnt see the cast bar over the monster and it doesn't put the mark down on hard mode until after he casts it... Called skill
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Melopahn: I am not sure what video you were watching. If you are talking about the video that started this thread, she was clearly way out of the box.

I'm sorry, I don't have this problem. I'm not bragging, I'm just letting you know that not everyone suffers from this issue. Perhaps there is a problem with the way your ISP is handling FFXIV traffic.

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Originally Posted by Melopahn

You guys need to learn how to dodge AOE in this game so here is the tutorial...

There is a cast bar that goes with every aoe. IF any part of you is even remotely in the AOE at the end of that AOE you will get hit. You can keep running and be 3 million feet from the end by the time the move actually goes off (*after cast animation) but you will get hit by it.

The damage DOES NOT register based on the cast animation, instead it registers based on when the cast bar ends.

There is no delay, there is no server latency (you may personally have bad internet but thats not SE's problem) I promise you I have done every dungeon in the game and if you are out of the red mark when the cast bar ends you will not take the damage.

The problem isn't the game it is your skill/reaction time. Don't blame the game for your short comings... just handle it like an adult and get better.

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Baloney, we have been talking about this in other threads too so maybe stop patting yourself on the back and know what you are talking about. Some people are are out of the red area BEFORE the casting is done according to that cast bar and some of us still get hit.

Endfight in brayflox is an easy example to see if you are tanking, if you don't want to get hit you need to be strafing before the castbar comes up and it's not crap internet or reaction time.

Stop trying to show how uber you are via nonsense "there is no problem" replies. Follow your own advice be an adult and stop thinking your the only person that knows how to play or has mmo experience.

@ Jackofham that is great but it not just an ISP thing though for some that may be an issue. My ISP doesn't throttle p2p and I am just a little over and hour away from the servers on a cable connection.

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Originally Posted by Melopahn

As for the video the dude is way inside the line when the move is registered and has his back facing the edge. He could a turn and get thrown the other direction or B run when the cast bar starts. The problem with him being the healer is that he doesnt see the cast bar over the monster and it doesn't put the mark down on hard mode until after he casts it... Called skill
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Uhh, you clearly have no idea when the cast bar finishes on that move.

MMO's are very low skill-intensive games and typically the people who try to gloat over them are those who can't compete in games that might take some. And they also usually aren't actually very good at the MMO's either, which is quite poetic.

I play from a non-japanese speaking asian country on NA server. I have only half a second to start moving through the shortest route out of the aoe. If I start moving more than half a second later, or I did not take the shortest route out, I get hit by AOE... I hope they will be able to figure something out to fix that for non-american players.

+1 the lag will eventually have to be fixed, if we are to raid.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29

Ok if you said, "it's because you are NA playing on a Canadian Server" or anything of the like, What do you propose that the European players do? Its obviously a problem if you need be on a server near you, and there are no servers on your continent. Same goes for Western Asia and Australia, and a whole lot of places.
If it requires you to be on a server within your locale then they need either shorten the server ping, or put servers everywhere. I play with a 100 meg connection and there are times when I have enough time to get out of the zone, because I am already sprinting, then turn away and cast a spell and still be hit by the move. As a healer, no you can not see the cast bar that is also an issue that needs to be addressed because it is a move targeting you, maybe knowing how much time you have would help because you can't tell if its lag or the move has a long animation.

I don`t remember WoW having this type of issue. Did Blizz have EU based servers?

This has very little to do with the actual distance (well, okay, it does have some to do with it, but that's not the primary factor). I live in Canada, and I still get the same problem.

It's because of the way the game is built to handle information from client and server. The game was intentionally built in a way that causes lag. Information has to be sent back and forth between server and client in an incredibly inefficient manner.

Essentially, in most MMOs, the information that a certain AoE is sent to your client. You then get that information, and then move to avoid the attack. A packet of information saying you dodged the attack is then sent to the server. The server reads that you avoided the attack, which then continues carrying on with business as usual.

In FFXIV, the information that a certain AoE is sent to your client. You then get that information, and move to avoid the attack. What is sent to the server is a packet of information saying that you moved to a specific location, not one that says you dodged the attack. At the time the AoE is scheduled to go off, the server compares its relevant information with the relevant information of your character's location at the time the attack goes off. However, the packet of information saying that your character was at a location outside of that of the AoE may not have reached and been processed by the server in time.

So you may have moved out of range of the attack before it was supposed to go off, but because of the way the game's netcode operates, the server can't actually know that, so you just get hit instead.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

So you may have moved out of range of the attack before it was supposed to go off, but because of the way the game's netcode operates, the server can't actually know that, so you just get hit instead.

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This is a really good explanation, i hope they fix this is really game breaking for me right now :/

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Originally Posted by gigi_frana

I don`t remember WoW having this type of issue. Did Blizz have EU based servers?

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They do and they are good servers as well these days.
Though I played WOW and Tera US and didn't had these issues at all.
I had 80 ms tops and had no problem tanking in an action mmo.

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So you may have moved out of range of the attack before it was supposed to go off, but because of the way the game's netcode operates, the server can't actually know that, so you just get hit instead.

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It's very annoying though and people made a lot of noise about it on the beta.
I don't understand why they even think this is acceptable in the alpha state.

Many FPS games use client side hit detection to get around some of these issues. In essence, your client tells the server if your shots were lined up on your target and reports the damage. Of course, thismeans damage you are personally taking is tracked from some one else's client (namely who ever is shooting at you). The lag people talk about in those games is often the result of this: on your screen you have entered a hall or rounded a corner while on your opponents screen you are still out in the open.

To the point: I have long wondered if FFXIV could use a similar system. Your client reports if you were in the hit of the attack to the server rather than the server having to poll your location. This would give everyone equal footing: assuming your machine itself isn't underperforming, we would all have the same amount of time to move. EX: Server tells your client that attack has initiated, client reports to server at end of cast if you dodged or not.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Many FPS games use client side hit detection to get around some of these issues. In essence, your client tells the server if your shots were lined up on your target and reports the damage. Of course, thismeans damage you are personally taking is tracked from some one else's client (namely who ever is shooting at you). The lag people talk about in those games is often the result of this: on your screen you have entered a hall or rounded a corner while on your opponents screen you are still out in the open.

To the point: I have long wondered if FFXIV could use a similar system. Your client reports if you were in the hit of the attack to the server rather than the server having to poll your location. This would give everyone equal footing: assuming your machine itself isn't underperforming, we would all have the same amount of time to move. EX: Server tells your client that attack has initiated, client reports to server at end of cast if you dodged or not.

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This would be a good fix but I dont think they will do it sadly.

Since this is a problem that apparently existed all the way back in 1.0, I seriously doubt it will ever be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Faction

Uhh, you clearly have no idea when the cast bar finishes on that move.

MMO's are very low skill-intensive games and typically the people who try to gloat over them are those who can't compete in games that might take some. And they also usually aren't actually very good at the MMO's either, which is quite poetic.

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Video games dont require any skills, cut the bs please

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Video games dont require any skills, cut the bs please

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Boy, you're going to be really disappointed when you see the crazy stuff that goes on at Evo.

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Originally Posted by Faction

Uhh, you clearly have no idea when the cast bar finishes on that move.

MMO's are very low skill-intensive games and typically the people who try to gloat over them are those who can't compete in games that might take some. And they also usually aren't actually very good at the MMO's either, which is quite poetic.

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Fail troll levels all the way to cap? Most impressive.

He's telling the truth, however. MMOs don't have very high skill ceilings, and don't really demand much of their players. Learn your rotation, dodge the big red marks. There's not much in the way of technical skill. Even if you factor in PvP (which this game doesn't have yet), there's not much in the way of proper yomi in most MMOs anyway.

Playing from Sweden on EU/US datacenter. Rarely have any issues getting out of AoEs. I didnt have issues in WoW either playing on US server, or in DaoC and ToR for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

He's telling the truth [snip]

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I thought the same thing until the second boss in darkhold tonight. In short, as a white mage which dodges the red circles and still gets hit, the fight's impossible. I haven't managed to dodge one, in 10+ attempts and believe me, I've been out, healthily out, a long way out of them and they've still connected. I've attempted running backward and forward constantly, only stopping to cast, and it hasn't done a damn thing. Even if the circle doesn't appear under my feet because I'm already out of it, it hits. In short, I've had to tell my static to do darkhold with another healer. I'll probably clear it when I level something which when KO'ed, doesn't lead to the death of everyone else.

But that's not an issue with skill or actual difficulty, that's just bad technical design.

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Originally Posted by avaughnimous

Fail troll levels all the way to cap? Most impressive.

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What's so impressive about grinding FATEs for a couple days?

Happens very often to me too. It's nice to know I'm not the only one :p

This is by far the number one issue I have with ARR.