Okay, my issue isn't the usual "synth should or should not break at 100% (0 dura)" arguement. I agree if dura is 0, synth should fail, even at 100%.
My problem is a little different. In a nutshell, I feel like a lot of the "break @ 100%" situations are not justified because the last synth attempt often overcharges your dura. Let me elaborate:
First a quick recap of the outcome of "Standard Synthesis", not counting when unstable:
[Perfect Success] (high pitch sound effect)
Progress usually: 15 ~ 20max
Dura Loss usually: 0 ~ 4
[Adequate Success]
Progress usually: 10 ~ 20max
Dura Loss usually: 5 ~ 9
[Fail]
Progress usually: 0 ~ 10max
Dura Loss usually: 10 ~ 15
Most people would agree those are pretty good estimates of standard synth with a stable core. Now to explain the actual issue. Below is an example of what currently happens in the game.
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Prog 97% & Dura 4
>Standard - Adequate Success "Prog increases 20%, Dura decreases 7"
Prog 100% & Dura 0
>BREAK
You work a synth up till 97%/4dura, you do 1 more synth, and break at 100%, but I call BS on that. Why is the game allowing your progress to go over 100%? In reality that's telling me, "you're gonna spend 7 dura to work this synth to 117%" ....wtf?
The game should NOT let you do more work than needed to finish the synth. Here you can make the arguement, "If the game wants to charge you dura for over 100% progress, then it should also let you complete an item with 0 dura. It's unfair to have one without the other."
But honestly, I think it would be better to have neither and tweak the system. What should've happened just now was something like this:
Prog 97% & Dura 4
>Standard - Adequate Success "Prog increases 3%, Dura decreases 1"
Prog 100% & Dura 3
>SUCCESS
See this makes sense to me. This says, "the random number generator in the game said you should've spent 7dura for 20% prog, but since you can only go 3% more, you will only lose a proportional amount, which is 1 dura".
_ _ _
Again, right now:
Prog 94% & Dura 7
>Standard - Fail "Prog increases 10%, Dura decreases 8"
Prog 100% & Dura 0
>BREAK
Spending 8 dura to get to 104% ... makes no sense. It should be:
Prog 94% & Dura 7
>Standard - Fail "Prog increases 6%, Dura decreases 5"
Prog 100% & Dura 2
>SUCCESS
This is a fair outcome. "Random Num Generator said you should've spent 8 dura to work 10%, but since you can't go further than 6%, you only lose 5". Do the math: (8/10)*(x/6) ==>> 10x=48 ==>> x=4.8 ==> 5 dura for 6%
_ _ _
Now I'm not sure if the game rolls the dice to determine if each Standard synth should be a [Perfect Success], [Adequate Success], or [Fail] first, and then uses that in another dice roll to see what your Prog/Dura will be ..... or if it figures out your Prog/Dura first, and that determines your [PS] [AS] [F] outcome. Either way, it should not matter. The game should operate on the simple fact that, "It should cost less durability to make 7% prog than it does to make 20% prog."
Crafting should be tweaked such that your progress from all synthesis attempts should not exceed 100%, and thus, the last synth attempt should have it's calculation adjusted so the possible dura loss will match the possible progress.
That being said, if this WAS implented, it would not eliminate all "break @ 100%" situations, but it would definitely reduce the occurences that happen; plus it would make the ones that do break easier to swallow.
Unjustified "fail @ 100%" synths -- a suggested tweak
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04-24-2011, 11:39 AMJesiOver 100% progress synthesis -- What?
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04-24-2011, 12:12 PMLienn
100% fail is correct. If your HP reaches 0, you die...same works for crafting.
Also, overkill is allowed in every FF game until now...same works for cfarting.
Keeping durability is part of the challenge of crafting here. If 0dura/100% was allowed, people wouldn't care much about unstable and would spam rapid in the end regardless of durability.
Also, allowing 0/100% would generate a much more frustrating situation...if you can complete a synth this way it would be good for materials and leves only...because once the finished item enter in touch up mode it would automatically break due 0 dura.
Complaining about this is the same of complaining a cactuar r20 killed your r50 class. Its part of the game...just assume it might happen and move foward ^^ -
04-25-2011, 02:15 PMTheVedis
already a thread on this, with dev response
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...9-100-You-FAIL! -
04-26-2011, 12:01 AMSuetan
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04-26-2011, 10:17 PMJesiThat was the case in the beta when the durability lost by all actions were "lower than intended" according to the devs, and then they changed it to the current system. I'm not talking about adjusting durability loss for those actions. I'm only saying that you should not be able to craft something over 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
I understand that "overkill" has been in FF games for a long time, but that's for battling. If you use a gun to shoot someone, they die. If you use a nuclear bomb to kill someone, they die. That is overkill.
If you're baking a cake in a regular kitchen oven, it bakes and can burn if you leave it in too long, meaning it's ruined. If you bake a cake over a volcano, it bakes and can burn if you leave it in too long, meaning it still gets ruined. There is no overkill when you create an item, it's done when it's done, otherwise you're just going to ruin it and fail.
_ _ _ _ _
Lienn, I dont understand what you mean when you say,
If you're crafting a finished item and you're in a situation where you just barely get to 100% with very little durability left, why would it suddenly break when you enter the touch up phase? No one would touch that up, you just finish the synth immediately after 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
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I don't think that's a good analogy for what I was trying to say. That implies that you fail doing something that would be "Too weak" compared to your current skill level. I'm talking about the very nature of the current synthesis system where it lets you go over 100% completion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
If you want an analogy for a battle situation.... this is like when you're fighting a cactuar and you start casting Stoneskin to help reduce damage from 1000 needles, but the casting bar keeps going after it passes the "casting time" for the spell and you get hit with 1000 needles before Stoneskin goes off. You get frustrated and say, "wtf? when you're done casting a spell it should go off! How the hell do i cast a spell over 100%?"
_ _ _ _ _
I realized there was another thread before I posted and I was debating whether I should post there. The reason I chose to make a new thread was because my arguement wasn't if a synthesis should break at 0 durability, it's just about a going over 100% when crafting. So I figured that warranted a new thread. Of course in hindsight, I probably should of named my thread "Over 100% progess in synthesis", or something. Sorry about that!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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04-26-2011, 10:32 PMRenshi
ZOMBIE POSTING!
nduuuuuuuuudhhhhbrains
Heya!
Considering that I like the system as it is now and it doesn't need any revamp, I'm gonna say my 2 cents about how it would be nice to be, but it doesn't have to.
I find the 100% failing very. Very. VERY frustrating, but it's kind of alright. If you complete an item with 0 durability, if you'd use it it would turn into a plump of useless puke. Regards on how frustrating this is, I'd keep this one.
I agree to the randomness of the success though. When I've crafted a better hammer for my Blacksmith, I was thinking of "Wow! Now sh*t just got real!", and at the end I found myself failing slightly less, but still markably.
I like the system as it is though, as it gives me more satisfaction when I do things. I don't like to craft when I'm sure something is successful; it doesn't give me any satisfaction or sensation of success, just a "woo hoo. I did it.", but with the actual system I really feel like "I've tried so long for this and now I did it! Man I'M SO F*CKING [SIZE=5]HARD[SIZE=6]CORE[/SIZE][SIZE=7]![/SIZE][/SIZE]"
See ya!
ghndndddddddddnghuuuuhPineapple -
04-26-2011, 10:38 PMJesiThis is why i started a new thread, with hopes of avoiding posts debating success/fail at 0 dura instead of my point of over 100% progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renshi
Guess I should just be mad at myself for not picking a better thread name. ~_~ -
04-26-2011, 10:49 PMRenshiDon't blame it on yourself, as there couldn't be a better thread title. I was just zombying because I was going to take a shower and didn't want to think for a formal answer =) /honestQuote:
Originally Posted by Jesi
Your idea is kind of alright, I think. If you're at 99% it's also real that you spend less effort to reach 100%.
But I was thinking that as it is for now, in the animation it is like they put the same effort from 99% to 100% as the 50% to 70%, so in the means of animation it's alright to spend more durability.
Your solution is good if they want to resolve the issue of failing at 100% frustration anyway. I simply don't like it because it eases things, and I like hard things =D
But again, it's the global opinion that counts.
Sorry for that! See ya! -
04-28-2011, 12:19 AMPeregrine
Why are people trying so hard to nickel and dime Square out of fractions of remainders and 1% of progress....this is crazy. No matter how many of these tiny things they give you...whether it's success at 0 durability versus 1 durability or if they essentially pro-rate you durability for durability not used to get to 100% complete...there's always going to be a cutoff.
The changes will just make you grow bolder in pushing a synth you already pushed too much, so it's a futile patch. If you are at 97% progress with 4 durability left, you're boned. Don't get to that point and even expect success. Don't let that 97% comlete fool you. You, in fact, were not that successful at this synth if you find yourself in that situation. It's probably time to find an easier synth or just straight accept the fact that you will fail some.
97% complete with 20-30 durability left=good
97% complete with 1-10 durability left=you didn't actually do very well in the entire process. You can't even argue that you "practically finished it" if in fact 7 times out of 10 you would actually fail.
Moral of the story is instead of asking for a nickel and dime break, don't leave home without enough change to begin with. -
04-28-2011, 01:27 AMSmokie23Its not whether the person did a 'good synth' or a 'bad synth'. Its the point that when you get to this point that all is needed is 3% to finish the item. The original post is correct. If I only need 3% to finish why is it calculating as if 20% or more is left?? I agree that if only 3% is needed then there is no way you should need all that durability to finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
But I do agree with you that you shouldn't let this happen by either ranking up beyond what you need to make it or by using higher quality materials. -
04-28-2011, 01:44 AMJudge_XeroIf I could double like this post I would. You always seem to beat me to the punch on repsonding Peregrine. (You type what I was thinking as I read the other posts)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
If you aren't first, then you are last. A fail is a fail. Just get better at crafting and stop wasting mats and other peoples time with complaining.
(I'd like to mention that even if you get an unstable element 3 times in a row during a difficult synth (6-8 ranks above, you can still complete the synth with proper timings and skills) -
04-28-2011, 04:32 AMKimahri
Mkay. Let me say my opinion on this matter. It doesn't need to be changed. Yes. It sucks. You need to get over it, though. The reason why you fail is because there is nothing left in the durability to keep it stable. It's like trying to cut a steak with a butter knife. Just not going to work.
If anything.......And boy is this a long shot.....Maybe you can retain some items after the synth has failed. That way it's not a total loss and people feel like they didn't just waste "put gil amount here" in materials. -
04-28-2011, 07:43 AMSmokie23
people are misreading this thread. Its not the fact you hit 0 durability...that we agree with. Its the point that only a very small percentage is need to complete the synth then it should only use a portion of the durability.
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04-28-2011, 10:32 AMPeregrineIt IS the fact that you hit 0 durability. You want a discount on durability at the end of the synth if you're close to being done so you DON'T hit 0 durability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokie23
No. You're too close to 0 durability at the end of a synth. Change the way you synth. The system isn't the one screwing up. Get to the end of a synth with more durability. The end.
Failing at 0 durability and 100% progress is fair. Using full strikes even at 99% complete is fair. People who are perseverating on these tiny fractions are doing it wrong. They're not saving enough durability to cover the odds at the end of a synth.
Becaue they're not synthing correctly, making it even easier for them to not synth correctly will just make them synth even more incorrectly, so that instead of being at 97% with 6 durability left, now they're at 82% durability with 10 durability left which is even worse but they're counting on the last 5% essentially being free so they press it. And becaue they press it they fail. Because they fail they rage. Then what do they do?
They complain that they got 17% progress when they should have gotten 20.
They complain that they got a critical failure that shouldn't have happened.
If you find yourself with 0 durability very often at all, it is you. It is not the game. Play the game well as-designed. Don't play it poorly and argue the way you play should be called well.
That's the line between success and fail. Stop playing so close to it. -
04-28-2011, 10:48 AMPeregrineIt's really the only response you can give to a crafter who seems really frustrated at 0 durability outcomes: don't go near 0 durability, obviously. You and I both know 80% complete, 30% durability is a much safer place than 70% complete, 30% durability left. Never get a tens digit behind on your progress % compared to durability remainder, or you will get burned. Often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
When met with 70% complete, 30 durability left, the good player finishes the synth as safely as they can and gets out of dodge because THEY ARE BEHIND IN THE SYNTH. They are not okay. They have a big risk of failure. They know a critical fail could be right around the corner. The bad player figures they have some room left to wiggle when they don't. They never see that critical fail coming.
Plan for calamity. Cover your bases.
Too many players assume they're never wrong. The game's wrong. The game's unfair.
No, they're not playing that well and made poor decisions. -
04-29-2011, 12:39 AMJesiCool, I'm glad you agree that going from 99% to 100% should use less durability (vs a full synthesis action), but I'm not sure if I can agree with the animation-based measure of durability... since the animation is exactly the same regardless of the outcome of the attempt. When you get a perfect success and the synthesis costs 0 durabilty, the animation looks exactly the same as when you get a really bad fail that costs over 20 durability(while unstable). So I don't see why a pro-rated synthesis going from 99% to 100%(probably using little durability) can't use the same animation as always.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renshi
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Please don't misunderstand my intentions. I don't get "fooled" into a false sense of security when I see 97% with low dura left, I expect to fail and when I do, I just sigh and move on like everyone else. If I didn't, I would've given up crafting and probably would not bother with explaining a tweak that would only boost overall synth success rate by a single digit percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
97%, Dura 8
>Standard -- Success 20% / 8 loss
100% Dura 0
>Break
I am positive alot of players have already had the above happen to them, and then thought, "20% for 8 dura? Hmm, if that was pro-rated, I probably would of finished the synth since I only needed 3%". It's not like it happens often, but when it does, you DO notice and sorta feel cheated, because the game is letting you craft beyond 100% and charging you for it. Logically it makes no sense to go beyond 100% when you are creating an item. When it's done, it's done.
Example 1
When you bake a cake, you check on it periodically, say every 30mins. If the cake is almost done (90% progress) and only needs 10mins more to bake, are you going to wait a full 30mins to check it again because that's size of your action interval? No, you'll check it again in 10mins otherwise it'll burn and be ruined.
Example 2
If that doesn't sound right to you, how about this. I'm not a mechanic, but I know with alot of machinery you are not supposed to overtighten the lugnuts/bolts. You are only supposed to torque them to a specified amount otherwise it will cause problems. If your normal stroke of your wrench turns a bolt 180deg(half circle) and the bolt is supposed to be tighted by 270degrees(3/4 circle), are you going to tighted it 360degrees(full circle) just because that's the size of 2 strokes? Or are you going to use 1 full stroke and 1 partial stroke?
The purpose of crafting is to get to 100% before dura reaches 0, SE says so themself on the lodestone(see quote). So why is the game allowing the last synth to calculate progress OVER 100% and charge you for it?
Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e/craft01.html
In the example I give further above, 20% consumes 8 dura when only 3% was needed. Common sense would tell you that you would have finished that if the game did not let progress calculate to 117%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Square-Enix
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Now on the flip side, I understand Peregrine & Judge Xero's point which can be summed up as, "stop crying, try harder".
It's not like I'm saying, "Wow! Hard synths are hard! I failed some synths, game is broken!!1111wun"
- I agree that when you hit 0 durabiltiy, you should fail, even at 100%.
- Skill and proper timing when using abilities can make even the hardest synths somewhat managble.
- If you fail a synth that is much higher than you, it's because it's much higher than you and you should EXPECT to fail alot.
- I also agree that you should plan for critical failures(unstables) by conserving durabiltiy even when you are 95%, because they DO happen. (this is my personal crafting style)
- I am in no shape or form debating any aspect of difficulty when it comes to crafting.
What I'm proprosing should not create a "free 5%". People should still expect to fail on long shots like you pointed out. If they complain about it, they then don't understand how crafting works or just aren't crafting properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
My point is that this one facet of the crafting system should be changed because it it is illogical and sometimes cheats you. Going over 100% makes no sense and should not be allowed. The last synth should be curtailed and have the possible durability loss pro-rated to match the progress. This would not have a large impact on the system, just those few instances where you blatantly should've finished the synth.I don't think this tweak could be abused or make people "bolder". Players should do the exact same thing they do right now when they have very low dura and only a few percent prog left, hit Standard and hope for the best. No one uses Rapid unless you're over 20% away from finish, even then you have no garauntee that rapid would output 30% for you anyway, not to mention the lower success rate. So the bottom line is, if you screw up, or the synth is too hard, you will still get boned in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
I won't bother trying to prove if I play the game poorly or not, but playing "the game well as-designed" is sort of a problem since the game was a real piece of crap when it was launched. It's only NOW getting better because the developers are listening to the players, which is the purpose of the forums. I am actually glad that people are debating and providing counter points, but please don't think of it as "complaining" when I try to argue an improvment that I earnestly think would make the game better. Please see past the fact that people fail at 100% because they suck, I agree, it's just I'm talking about something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
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04-29-2011, 04:18 AMPeregrine
Every RPG in the history of man has designed Rank 1 rats with 32 HP for Rank 1 heroes who hit for 28. Deal with it. You kill it in two full rounds. Not a round and a little bit of a part of one because you basically killed it.
Seriously, enough with the nickel and diming petitions. It's as if some people have never had to deal with any disappointment on any level in their lives, and this game IS their rank 1 rat that they hit once and it doesn't die.
WHAT? I was supposed to win that one!
No, you weren't.
You're underprepared and underlevelled for that synth. You're blinking red at 3 hp and it's the enemy's turn. Don't argue that they're almost dead, so their attack power should be next to nothing. YOU are almost dead so yours should too if that's the case. They're going to hit you for full damage, or they're going to miss you.
You better pray for a miss, because not even a parry is going to help you.
Again. You're almost dead, and it's the Bronze Hoplon's turn to hit you. Awwe the Hoplon hit you for 8. You are dead.
The Hoplon's not sitting there whining that you have 2 durability left, it should get a prorating on percent completion, because there's no way you can get 20% completion with 2 durability.
If we gave the prorating to you, we should give it to the Hoplon and start nerfing your % completion when you have <10 durability left because you don't have sufficient durability for a full attempt. Why should the Hoplon be subject to 10-30% progress completions when it almost has you whipped if you're not subjected to its full strikes if it has you whipped?
Fair. Moving on. -
04-30-2011, 03:36 AMJesiI already explained in other posts on this thread why I think a battle analogy does not work for crafting, so either you didn't read them or don't care/disagree with them. If by chance you didnt read them, the links are below, but I'll also explain further here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
Post 5 - top section of post
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post108675
Post 16 - middle of post, para starting with "I am positive alot of players", also Example 1 & 2
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post111654
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Side Note
It is a bit ridiculous I have to break it down like this, but I want to be thorough. If anyone readying this already agrees that overkill/over100% progress should not apply to crafting, you can just skip the next section, or just read the end result of the examples.
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Now The issue I'm talking about is just a nuance of the crafting system, not a player being "underprepared and underlevelled for that synth" as you put it. The system itself let's you craft over 100% progress when, logically, it shouldn't. Just to be clear, I'm going to refer to this as "overkill" since battle situations are the most common anaology people use to defend this, just like you did.
-== Logic of Overkill in Battle vs Crafting==-
As you mention in your first post on this thread(Post 9), there will always be a cutoff, and that's absolutely right, but that's only half the story. What really matters is what happens if you go past that cutoff point. If we examine real life situations you'll see what I mean.
= Battle =
In battle, your objective is to kill your oponent... or in other words, cease the fuction of the target's body with no regard to the final condition. So essentially, you want to do enough damage to meet or surpass a certain threshold(their max HP).
You can probably figure out where I'm going with each example, but just hear me out.
Let's say your target is a human and their max/current HP is 1000. Dealing damage to different parts of the body will have varying impact on their health.
Example 1- Cut off his big toe
- This alone would yield minimal damage since a toe is not critical to life function. At best the bleeding will yield damage over time until it clots. So that would be about 4hp/min for 10mins, A total of 40HP
- Gradually create skin deep lacerations all over the body from head to toe (chinese torture method)
- Now this would cause many non-fatal wounds, but the combined DoT damage would eventually cause lethal blood loss, resulting in a slow & painful death (which why it's a torture method)
- If 1 cut = 4hp/min for 10mins (40hp), death would occur around 25 cuts depending on the uniformity of the cuts and blood loss (25 x 40 = 1000)
Example 2- A shot or stab to the heart or brain
- This would cause immediate death due to their critical life function. So that would result in an immediate translation to 1000dmg + DoT from severe bleeding caused by high blood flow and difficulty clotting (50HP/min over 20mins, or 1000dmg)
- So, Instant death (1000) + blood loss (1000) = 2000 damage total
- But does that extra damage from bleeding matter? NO! They already died instantly
Example 3 - Extreme Overkill- Burning to death via flamethrower
- This would cause widespread damage on the skin which would not cause instant death by itself, but overheating and internal tissue damage would result in a quick death as it continues.
- So that means it would start around 20HP/second and go up to about 100HP/second after 30seconds as the internal tissue starts to burn. It should continue to burn until all fat content in the body is consumed (30mins? Although, I've heard of corpses burning even longer <.<)
- So 20hp/sec to 100hp/sec over 30sec would be about 1865 damage. Then the other 29.5mins of burn time at 100hp/sec would be 177,000dmg. A grand total of 178,865 damage.
- Does that matter? No lol, they died in the first 30secs when it passed 1000dmg.
Obviously overkill makes sense in battle, so it applies in the battle system of the game. Now on to crafting.
= Crafting =
In crafting your goal is to turn specific materials into a specific shape, form, or condition. That shape/form/condition is the threshold you want to meet, anything else is a failure.
For these examples I specifically chose situations where making "progress" is done by the same type of action from start to finish because it translates to how the game does crafting. So to re-iterate, it's same mode of action, just variations in method, like how hard you turn your wrench or how long you let the pan sit over various amounts of stove heat, etc.
You can make the arguement this is not a direct correletion to when you synth a real life item, for example, building a car, putting on a tire is not really the same type of action as installing a windshield. Yet, if you break it down into multiple smaller synts. it matches the game's system very well. For example putting on a tire would be an entire synth, and tightening the lugnuts would be the repetitive action that is guaged by the progress bar.
Steak- You apply various amounts of heat for at different durations; short high heat for a nice sear, then a long medium heat to cook it without burning
- There is definitive stop point that you want to reach, whether it is rare, medium rare, or well done. If you go past that point, you have failed to make the steak you intended.
Sculpture- You use your chisel with varying amounts of force from your hammer at well placed spots to shape the material into the final product
- Let's say you're working on a sculpture of a cube. Sure, you can pretend you're Thor and use mighty strikes of your hammer to get the general shape, but you cant do that near the end otherwise you'll just cause cracks and/or chip off a chunk you didn't intend to.
- Using excessive force and losing a whole corner of the cube is not acceptable
Gemstones- Use a grinding wheel to shape a raw stone into a precious gem by holding the stone up against the wheel for various amounts of pressure and duration
- You're almost done and only 1 tiny grind is needed to get a perfect shape.
- So would you just mash it against the wheel for awhile like you're just starting with a new piece? If you want to ruin it, yeah go ahead.
Shaping a Metal Plate- How about a Bronze Hoplon like in Peregrine's example.
- You're shaping a metal plate into a specific curved shape by using strikes of your hammer that vary in strength/pressure.
- You're almost done and just need one little tap in the middle to make it perfectly curved just they way you want it.
- Is it ok to just start wailing it like youre IronMan making a new suit now? Maybe go with a light and controlled tap and call it a day and success.
I could go on, but it should be clear that overkill doesn't work when you're creating an item. I even went as far as to choose examples from actual in game synths (except for the scultpure unless you sorta count Crp offhand), so this should apply even more.
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Having said all that, the game mechanics of crafting need to be adjusted to stop letting you craft beyond 100%. It should stop at exactly 100% and end, or enter the "touch up" phase if it's a finished item.
I am not saying this because I'm some whiny crafter who's desparately trying to stop breaking synths, it's because there is a loophole in the logic governing the current crafting system. Saying, "stop crying and try harder by using better judgement with craft actions or using HQ mats" is not a solution to the problem. If you still think that after reading everything I said, you're completely missing the point.