Fates

Why do fates give over 10 times the experience per hour that running dungeons do and require nothing but a working 1 key? Spam 1 button/AOE, no thought, no strategy, no teamwork, no skill, no danger, easiest content in the game.

Why will I be spending 75% of my time doing these to level anything but my main class? Why will I be forced to do these to spiritbond level50 gear for materia?

Why is there only ~5 "boss" fates in the entire game? Chim is actually challenging and fun to fight, at level 45-49 I fought it with a full party(8) and had to use tanks LB below 15% or time stuns properly to take it down, and people actually died. Had to avoid lots of damage, super fun. Behemoth and odin are also excellent, cancer I only did with a zerg so can't say, same with the dragon in Coerthas.

There are many bosses in dungeons, can't they be added as fates? Every zone should have a big boss fate that requires people to pay attention and try, and you can easily die in.

Why aren't traditional exp/merit parties doable? They're more fun and scale with your skill(higher chains).

I don't look forward to leveling jobs not my main, I also don't look forward to trying to soulbind my gear at 50 for materia, because the only way to do is is running fates where I do nothing but spam AOE.

Can dungeons perhaps give much more exp? They're good for learning, challenging, fun, hard, and you actually get to play your character to it's full potential. This is a problem for new players as well, because they are REQUIRED to do these dungeons to progress through the story but not many people will be doing them and their queues will be HOURS long. The exp isn't worth it and gear isn't needed to run fates with 8 man parties.

Something needs to be done, fates are not fun in their current form, and their reward/effort ratio is completely out of whack.

This is a really big issue, I really hope something is done about it.

Yeh I couldn't believe the first time I did cancer.. I ran in, I was absorbed by the zerg, I think I smacked cancer once and it was over... I got 28k exp wth

I'm sure (I hope) this is something that will be adjusted/addressed in the near future. I mean, the game is just out of the box, so I'm sure there will be many improvements in the future. But I agree, the FATEs I've seen so far, are just spam fests.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Stop calling for nerfs, please.

I'll edit this for everyone who answered me.

Anyone remember 16 man parties at the release of 1.0 and the way experience points worked, where being in a 16 man was basically the only way to level conj? What happened to that?

Anyone remember running levequests with friends, and leaving one mob alive so we could re-roll the leve over and over again? What happened to that?

Anakhu you are on legacy so I assume you do remember.

Any viable method of experience gain was nerfed to the ground in 1.0.

Now you are asking for nerfs to a viable method of experience gain.

Either you weren't there, or you refuse to learn from the past. Either way, nerfing experience points gains IS NOT the way to keep players/get new ones.

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Originally Posted by BlazeChronic

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Stop calling for nerfs, please.

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SE allowing people to farm that much xp per hour over everything else will leave tons of content excluded , and have so many people to 50's in all DoM/DoW classes that they then find themselves kinda bored unless running primals. and anytime they go do do one of the countless quests they have available still they will be sooo darn easy it will seem even more boring doing them just for the few extra gil.

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Originally Posted by Anakhu

SE allowing people to farm that much xp per hour over everything else will leave tons of content excluded , and have so many people to 50's in all DoM/DoW classes that they then find themselves kinda bored unless running primals. and anytime they go do do one of the countless quests they have available still they will be sooo darn easy it will seem even more boring doing them just for the few extra gil.

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then yells for more content come, and then subs get canceled and new game is found.( this doesn't apply to everyone but a lot of gamers are like this unfortunately)

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Originally Posted by BlazeChronic

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Stop calling for nerfs, please.

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Do you even lift bro? lol

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Originally Posted by Pride_Xiv

Do you even lift bro? lol

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I curl 12oz at 5 every day

Keep in mind once people begin to level multiple classes, quests are gone, leve allowances are low, dungeons may get boring grinding them over and over, so why not have FATEs? That don't spawn so often it's a literal constant flow of exp. sometimes you have to wait. I think it's pretty fair tbh.

I am inclined to disagree here, the players complaining about the experience points are not taking into account the fact you have to level 9 classes. Essentially what you can do is do a mix of Leve Quests, Hunting Log and FATES to level classes when the quests have been used up. this actually allows for steady progression through classes. The game is not about leveling a single class.

The thought that the FATES give too much XP is a bit narrow minded. You need to account that people need to go through the same content over and over with each class, SE has Streamlined the Leveling process to be less time sink and more Oppertunistic. TBH FATES don't compare to the Hunting Log, that can get you some levels.

When I wanted to LVL one of my classes, I followed the Hunting Log Doing Fates along the way and a set of the Leve's at each camp. this allowed me to level steadily, doing FATES as that came up while still roaming the lands for my hunting log entries. Sometimes there were multiple uses for FATES included getting some hunting log entries done

I like being able to run into random events and get something worthwhile for it. If you want challenge go ram yourself against the "challenging" bosses in dungeons. Doesn't affect me to see you do it, OP. Now if you want my experience to be less rewarding because of whatever false sense of superiority you want to feel fueled by whatever e-peen drives you, then we're going to have a problem.

There are many times where I've run of quests and get bored of leves. Duty finder can be over an hr if you are a dps class (healers get instaqueue). So FATES are a good alternative. I do admit, it gets really boring after doing them for hours but there is nothing else to do in between levels. My story line is always stuck at a part where I need to do a dungeon and unless I get a healer friend or a healer from guild to queue with me, I can wait hours and nothing pops. So FATES are good and bad. And no, they don't plan on nerfing FATES:

From http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...-Prime-13.html

"Mr. Yoshida explained that the team realizes that FATEs are quite popular right now and that the system doesn’t scale well for the amount of players that are showing up to do them, but they are currently betting on this being less of an issue once people move through the game and the “mad dash” is over."

Sorry I didn't see this post here before I made mine.
I totally agree with OP...
FATEs are ruining the game for me :( (But some are fun, especially the ones where there is hardly anyone else around)

There is also an issue of "sub boss" or "boss" fates(they have a different icon than mob zerg fates), and not to be confused with the boss fates with cool music. They're just normal mobs that have enhanced size, HP, defense, and maybe damage(they don't seem to hit very hard). Kinda boring, there's a plasmoid one that's just a plasmoid that's bigger and only spams thunder and is just tank + spank. There's also a pink phurble one that's the same. Most of the boss fates are like this. That's not very fun or interesting. The only fun fates I experienced were behemoth, chim, and Odin so far.

Why aren't there more interesting fates?

Fates aren't going anywhere and neither are the mechanics because if you look at past games that used them
(they were just called something else) they worked for people who don't want to do anything else like leves and dungeons
plus like some have said it's a great way to level your second class for that job you want. If your complaining about them
it's probably because you never played Warhammer or GW2 which is where SE got the idea from when Yoshi said that he was
playing GW2 and checking out there system of FATES....

I don't see a problem with Fates but I wish they would implement linked FATES more often like the one in Dragonhead. Fates
is also a great way to change the environment and outcomes which right now is not in place. If the FATE fails then the whole
area would change somehow in favor of the enemy NPC and likewise.

Leveling 30 to 50 in 2 nights is ridiculous, and that's basically what my Entire LS is doing. They get in a Fate Party at level 35 and when I log off at the end of the night their 40+ and when I see them the next day their 48 questing out the rest of 50...

IMO dungeons should be the best experience bar none, or people will stop running them once they get past the story line requirement to run it. In fact I reckon the story line requirements to run them are the only reason people are not experiencing 2hour+ que times to run one.

I've already seen that braybonx longstep is showing que times over 2 hours for healers even.

People don't really need the gear either. They run fates and get so many flame seals (or w/e seals if your not with the immortal flames) and they go to their quarter master and rank up to Sergeant/Captain and buy the gear with the set bonus which is pretty good gear.

So IMO, yeah they need nerfed. Fate EXP is crazy. I walk in all the time and smack 2 mobs and get full credit for 8,000+. Up to as much as 20,000+.... 33 to 34 I knocked out near costa del sole in less than 30 minutes doing 5 quests, 4 leves, and every fate I ran into in the process. Cancer even... which had so many people he was zerged down in like 3 minutes.

As to boss fates. I fought some pugil in Upper Los Noscea last night. I was the only one around and no one in sight. So I engaged it just for a good laugh. To my suprise I was able to solo it to 20% hp... But I failed because I couldn't kill it fast enough and ran out of time. But still got 6,000 exp for trying. He would cast screw driver over and over again and I would just get out of the way and pop my hp drain and +healing buffs and stay over 1000k hp the entire encounter.

Wasn't challenging at all.

I totally agree, I have played A LOT of MMOs (I hope not most, maybe it's that bad). Anyways, out of all the MMOs with a dynamic event system in place, FFXIV is probably the worst implementation of it I have seen to date.

I love so many things about this game, obviously, but the FATEs are a real downer. There's barely any game design to it, they just scripted a bunch of mobs to spawn, or one big mob to spawn. Pretty sad.

With the rest of the game being so polished, it is disappointing to see so little effort put towards this mechanic. The most slapstick filler in the game by far IMO.

The best use of dynamic events was probably Warhammer Online, RIFT, and Guild Wars 2. FFXIV unfortunately might be the worst dynamic events mechanic I have seen yet :/

I wanna fate in which need cast spell on inactive player which makes them follow you.
Then bring them in the fate zone and when the fate is complete AFKer's should be logged out.

I notice that a lot of the people saying FATEs are ruining the gameplay for them are already level 50 (including the OP)...

One of my biggest pet peeves in MMOs is when a company allows excessive rewards for the first couple of weeks and then nerfs it to hell and back, so that only the hardcore players can take true advantage of them. Once those hardcore players are sitting on maxed characters, with amazing gear, they all jump on forums and scream "OMG THE REWARDS ARE EXCESSIVE! NERF IT! NERF IT QUICK BEFORE ANYONE HAS A CHANCE TO CATCH UP TO ME!"

I disagree with the previous post. I'm level 34 and I think their excessive. I don't want to be sitting on 10 maxed classes before the end game content even comes out.... I feel like we should be struggling to make it to 50 by november, not there in the first two weeks. For me leveling is part of the journey of an MMO and it should require effort. Call it a Grind, call it w/e you want, to me that's part of an MMO and it isn't one without the ('Grind'). I want my progress to feel rewarding, like I accomplished something.

Right now it feels like I'm running around and the developers forgot to take the Fast Level Cheat off before launch.... The only reason I'm not 50 is because I leveled my Gladiator to 21, my Warrior is 34, and I've been running dungeons as tank a lot to help FC members progress their story line.

Now imagine it even more if your FC is rank 6+ and has all the experience perks... O.o like ours does.

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Originally Posted by Boonshniggle

I totally agree, I have played A LOT of MMOs (I hope not most, maybe it's that bad). Anyways, out of all the MMOs with a dynamic event system in place, FFXIV is probably the worst implementation of it I have seen to date.

I love so many things about this game, obviously, but the FATEs are a real downer. There's barely any game design to it, they just scripted a bunch of mobs to spawn, or one big mob to spawn. Pretty sad.

With the rest of the game being so polished, it is disappointing to see so little effort put towards this mechanic. The most slapstick filler in the game by far IMO.

The best use of dynamic events was probably Warhammer Online, RIFT, and Guild Wars 2. FFXIV unfortunately might be the worst dynamic events mechanic I have seen yet :/

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I agree, events were my favorite part of guild wars 2. They were tons of fun, and the best part of the game for me. They changed the zones, were epic chains, fun, a bunch of fun bosses that were slightly challenging and tons of different and interesting ones. They made the world feel alive. I leveled so many classes in GW2 to level cap just because the leveling experience was so good - the complete opposite of FF14, were I feel the leveling experience is the worst of any MMO I've played besides Aion.


Events(fates) in this game just seem like they were added in 5 minutes, there's barely any variance in them, they don't change the world, they rarely chain, failing them doesn't make your town get taken over or capture npc's or change the world in the slightest, there's some that if you win you unlock a NPC that sells a minion, but nothing near the scale of GW2's. Even the boss ones that aren't behe/odin/chim are just beefed up normal mobs made bigger in size that can be duod/solod. They just aren't interesting in the slightest, and they aren't fun.

The Fate parties remind me of the GW2 zerg...

You spot one, get in there, 5 seconds later everything is chugging because 35 people rolled in.

Wish there was settings to reduce visual effects of other players.

I hope they dont ever change the fate system cause its great the way it is now. Once I hit lvl 50 on my main class I would like to get my other classes up to 50 without much of a hassle and I'm sure MOST of the people who play this game would agree with me on that. In fact Yoshi already said that they won't be touching fates so I'm happy about that.

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Originally Posted by Robinthehood

I hope they dont ever change the fate system cause its great the way it is now. Once I hit lvl 50 on my main class I would like to get my other classes up to 50 without much of a hassle and I'm sure MOST of the people who play this game would agree with me on that. In fact Yoshi already said that they won't be touching fates so I'm happy about that.

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I don't see how buffing dungeon exp and leve quest exp makes it any less of a hassle to get to 50 on other classes. Or making traditional exp parties exist and be competitive with other exp methods. That would make it less of a hassle, because you'd have more options and more things to do and less chances of being bored/burned out. More options is always better.

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

I notice that a lot of the people saying FATEs are ruining the gameplay for them are already level 50 (including the OP)...

One of my biggest pet peeves in MMOs is when a company allows excessive rewards for the first couple of weeks and then nerfs it to hell and back, so that only the hardcore players can take true advantage of them. Once those hardcore players are sitting on maxed characters, with amazing gear, they all jump on forums and scream "OMG THE REWARDS ARE EXCESSIVE! NERF IT! NERF IT QUICK BEFORE ANYONE HAS A CHANCE TO CATCH UP TO ME!"

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exactly that. not everyone will no-life grind fates. some of us like to spend our time craft/gathering. now to compare dungeon exp vs fate exp is just plain retarded as dungeons are intended for challenging content and gear where fates are just purely exp/gil/grand companyseals. its better to compare fates and leves together.

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Originally Posted by Rage89

exactly that. not everyone will no-life grind fates. some of us like to spend our time craft/gathering. now to compare dungeon exp vs fate exp is just plain retarded as dungeons are intended for challenging content and gear where fates are just purely exp/gil/grand companyseals. its better to compare fates and leves together.

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IIRC Yoshi said he wanted people leveling up via dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I don't see how buffing dungeon exp and leve quest exp makes it any less of a hassle to get to 50 on other classes. Or making traditional exp parties exist and be competitive with other exp methods. That would make it less of a hassle, because you'd have more options and more things to do and less chances of being bored/burned out. More options is always better.

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Even if they did buff the exp you get from dungeons it wouldn't be as good as fates are since it takes forever just to get in and leves gets old really fast. Also fates would still be the best option to level secondary classes with since it not only gives out xp but seals as well which will help in gearing out that secondary class.

FATEs get harder. Some involve some basic reasoning skills like "See a red circle on the ground? Red circle equals bad. It causes booboo, even permanent nappy time. What should you do when you see red circles on the ground? Stand in them? No." Otherwise, most NM FATEs are just slugfests, but there is some level of consideration for the mechanics, and you CAN die by pulling aggro but because you're spamming ONE skill, no one's healing. Or tanking. And Archers are trying to kite the boss away by doing this one-button spamming.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

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I agree with this Ryios guy. I saw 50's on my server the day I bought the game (the first day it came out) with artifact gear already. People are just grinding fates and it completely destroys all other forms of gaining XP. I have no problem with fates being a good option for leveling, but to be SO far ahead of everything else in terms of not only XP but seals is too much. They also are the best way to level up your FC which is a big deal for some people as well.

I don't want to see everything else be buffed in XP to catch up with FATE's because hitting max level in like 3-4 days is too fast IMO. Dungeons should be the best way to get XP, or at least comparable to the best way to get XP (since DD's have such long queues). I am of the opinion that FATE XP needs to be nerfed because it is way too unbalanced in terms of how fast people can level grinding them.

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Originally Posted by Onnslaught

I agree with this Ryios guy.I saw 50's on my server the day I bought the game (the first day it came out) with artifact gear already. People are just grinding fates and it completely destroys all other forms of gaining XP. I have no problem with fates being a good option for leveling, but to be SO far ahead of everything else in terms of not only XP but seals is too much. They also are the best way to level up your FC which is a big deal for some people as well.

I don't want to see everything else be buffed in XP to catch up with FATE's because hitting max level in like 3-4 days is too fast IMO. Dungeons should be the best way to get XP, or at least comparable to the best way to get XP (since DD's have such long queues).I am of the opinion that FATE XP needs to be nerfed because it is way too unbalanced in terms of how fast people can level grinding them.

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I agree with everything you say.
Fates should be fun side activity, not the main way to get exp.

Haha, this thread kinda reminds me of the Guild Wars 2 release, as people also ran in circles doing such events, which was even more boring than in this game.

FFXI - log in and wait for hours to find ppl to PT with then take 30mins or more to find and get to a camp that is not taken or to a camp that is taken and have to fight over mobs with the other PTs and remain in ONE corner of the world and grind on ONE kind of mob with ONE job till your eyes bleed from lack of diversity

FFXIV - log in and IMMEDIATELY begin to roam the ENTIRE world and fight many different kinds of mobs in fates on many different classes/jobs and do some levequests on many different classes/jobs while being able to gather items along the way as well with my miner/botanist/fisher all while waiting in queue for a group of ppl that would like to run dungeons that have mobs to grind on that we do not have to fight ANY OTHER PTs for!


I pick option 2 ~_^;

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Originally Posted by Crica

FFXI - log in and wait for hours to find ppl to PT with then take 30mins or more to find and get to a camp that is not taken or to a camp that is taken and have to fight over mobs with the other PTs and remain in ONE corner of the world and grind on ONE kind of mob with ONE job till your eyes bleed from lack of diversity

FFXIV - log in and IMMEDIATELY begin to roam the ENTIRE world and fight many different kinds of mobs in fates on many different classes/jobs and do some levequests on many different classes/jobs while being able to gather items along the way as well with my miner/botanist/fisher all while waiting in queue for a group of ppl that would like to run dungeons that have mobs to grind on that we do not have to fight ANY OTHER PTs for!


I pick option 2 ~_^;

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No one is asking for option #1. Not a single person is asking for option #1. Please keep the discussion on topic and actually read posts.

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ppl want xp pts in open world...so they can fight other pts for the camps i guess?

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No one is asking for option #1. Not a single person is asking for option #1. Please keep the discussion on topic and actually read posts.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

No one is asking for option #1. Not a single person is asking for option #1. Please keep the discussion on topic and actually read posts.

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ppl want xp pts in open world...so they can fight other pts for the camps i guess?

Not disagreeing with the FATE argument the OP brought, but not going to completely agree with it either. Not even 50 yet (hope to change that today), but when I can go in drop Bio on every mob hanging around and get full participation, its kinda crazy. However nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and saying "You MUST do this to level." I've done FATES to gain a couple levels, worked great for what I needed at the time, but i don't think I should get full points for running in at the end. Just my 2 cents.

Completely agree.

Actually I got trolled by a bunch of fate grinding lovers when I said "I Hope FATES get nerfed".

So many great dungeons, so many well structured quests, but nothing like a full party spamming on a FATE to get all the exp I want. If they are going to keep the fates like they are now, it would be better to just erase all the leveling content on the game and just make a super big map full of fates, people would do exactly the same they do now. I suppose the normal answer would be "If you don't like it then don't play FATES", but I want to see my playtime rewarded, and it's not nice knowing I work that hard when almost everyone else is just leveling to 50 in 5 - 7 days with just spam of 1 skill, I even heard people saying "grinding dungeons is for retarded, you get better exp on FATES"... seriously this comment almost made me lose my hopes on the game.

I agree with the OP. Fate's Exp is very very cheap.

It simply ruins the game. People getting to Lv50 the 3rd day of Early Access, really?...

People keeps saying thing like:
Why do Dungeons? I get better Exp from FATES
Why do Story Quest? Better Exp from FATES
Why do Sub-Quests? Better and faster Exp from FATES
Why doing missions and suplies for Grand Company Seals? Its more rewarding with FATES
Why doing mates for Grand Company Seals? same ^

I remember I saw a message from beta 3 when I unlocked the Grand Company saying "Seals from FATES will be only available to adquire during Beta 3". I rememeber I thought "Good, because they are so easy to get". I dont FATE too much (just if the FATEs spawns in my face or is a boss FATE near) and I already have over 30k seals without doing any mission or mates from the Grand Company NPCS.

Now, people dont find other players to play for dungeons because FATEs, the maps are crowded with full partys of "Grind FATES" like Costa del Sol, Coerthas, etc. Thats the mayor reason behind all the problem to find people in your current server to play the dungeons, people went to Duty Finder and the DF collapses.

Whats the reason to have nice, beautiful and very well done content, dungeons and quests if you can get everything you need so easy with FATEs?

FATEs Exp need a nerf and in my opinion remove the company seals from FATEs too.

Some people like the game content, some people like to do the quests, and some people really want to do dungeons, and its really impossible because the majority just like to run over the entire map, killing mobs, smashing one button, and getting better rewards in less time than the players enjoying the real content. FATEs is the cancer of FFXIV.

FATE xp doesn't necessarily need a nerf; it needs to be in equilibrium with other aspects of the game. When a singular activity is:

1. The easiest (skill wise and organisationally) of all possible options.
2. Offer the best rewards in both experience and item acquisition via GCs.
3. Offers the best (and very close to only) method of ranking up GCs.

it is not balanced and essentially cheapens the development time put into other activities.

Calling for nerfs is the wrong way to go about it - whether or not it needs a nerf or other activities need a buff is a call for the devs. What it needs is BALANCE. I don't want people who do like fates to stop doing fates, that would be equally bad. I want to be ABLE to choose dungeons and not suffer for it. Statements that I can choose to do other content if I want to are asinine; the vast majority of the user base aims for efficiency over all else - certainly when the discrepancy is as large as it is currently.

When talking about a nerf I don't mean reducing the exp you get from FATES, I am talking about reducing the effectiveness FATES have on grinding in comparison with other systems, in any case it is called nerf too. Still, I agree with you.