Let Me Save Stat Profiles so I can Effectively Play Both my Melee and Mage Classes

The concept of the armory system was one that promised us the flexibility to be any job we want, at any time. Want to be a gladiator? Pick up a sword. Want to be a Chef? Pick up a frying pan.

The merits of this concept are somewhat realized so far, but there are still many obstacles that make using the armory system frustrating for me, and other players.

Problem 1: Stat reassignment cooldown is too long, and doesn't let me reassign everything.

If I've optimized my MRD, that means I have capped VIT, with lots of points in STR and DEX, some points in MND and PIE, and no INT, usually.

If I want to play as my THM, my optimal stat layout is lots of points into INT, MND, and PIE, with a moderate amount of VIT, and no STR or DEX.

However, if I want to transition from one stat setup to the other, I have to "reassign" up to 4 times, while having to wait 2 hours in between each "reassign" cooldown.

This does not fulfill the promise of class customizability and easy job changing.


Problem 2: Assigning points takes too long and requires a bajillion button presses.

At physical level 50, I have a LOT of stat points, and it wears my thumbs out when I have to press the the "confirm" button hundreds of times over and over just to get my stats to where I want them.

In addition, why make me press "enter" 4 times to increase my stats 1 point? Why not let me press "enter" once, and have it automatically deduct 4 points from my bonus point pool? That alone would cut down button presses immensely.


Problem 3: I can't optimize my food consumption if I can't easily change my stats


As you all know, you only get the "divine" optimal boost from food if you eat it while having a specific range of stat points set. It is virtually impossible for me to get divine food effects since my stats are usually never in an optimal state due to the long cooldown of stat reassignments.

If I want to get a divine boost fro Shephard's Pie, I need around 71 STR and 55 FIRE. If I'm tanking a NM, this is probably what I want so I can get as much of an HP boost as possible. However, maybe later I want to transition to a DD role instead, and eat Stuffed Cabbage for the accuracy boost (77 DEX, 60 LIGHTNING).

I might not be able to reassign my stats since the cooldown might not be up yet, and even if it is, I would only be able to get it down to around non-divine levels of optimization.

The only way to avoid this situation is if I had left a bunch of stat points unallocated, in effect gimping my character. Who wants to do that?

It's even worse if I switch from melee to mage, and want to have optimal food effects. It's pretty much impossible.



All I would need is to be able to save certain stat arrangements so that I can play any job to the best of my ability. That would pretty much get rid of all the problems noted above. It would put the promise of a flexible and easy-to-use armory system one step closer to fulfillment.

The idea of stat profiles are pretty nice. I wouldn't mind dealing with the cool down for the initial setup of the profile because then after that it is easy sailing. Excellent idea, You should of put the [dev] tags in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shots

You should of put the [dev] tags in it.

---

Which ones? There weren't any that fit. Unless there are more that I wasn't aware of. I don't think there were any dev tags that related to stat-allocation, specifically.

I don't have much to add to this. I am in agreement with most of your points. (Also a way to save abilities/traits as well would be excellent.) I would also like a visible change in food effects on stats, personally, but that's another thread, surely. =)

I think we should wait devs decision about physical levels. Maybe there will be no more points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldaena

I don't have much to add to this. I am in agreement with most of your points. (Also a way to save abilities/traits as well would be excellent.) I would also like a visible change in food effects on stats, personally, but that's another thread, surely. =)

---

Yeah, there was a thread earlier about improving food effects.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ull=1#post3700

ya this was brought up in the latest player poll, and was stated we may be getting rid of this system all together

Totally this is a no-brainer. Stats, gear, abilities, and point allocations should all be saved to each class, and changed immediately upon switching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eruantien

ya this was brought up in the latest player poll, and was stated we may be getting rid of this system all together

---

Perhaps. Stat auto-allocation comes into effect (The Diablo III method), then the point is moot. They'd still have to change how food effects are calculated, however.

Personally, I'd like physical levels stay in place. Job ranks should be able to be ranked up at a moderately decent pace, like it can be currently. This pleases the folks who like to rank up at a quicker pace.

Physical levels should be gotten much more slowly since you gain EXP no matter what job you are. Right now there is no obvious "status symbol" that shows you ranked up lots of jobs. A Job Rank 50 should be easy to get to. A physical Level 50 should be hard to get to, and only achievable if you had gotten enough EXP through ranking up multiple rank 50 jobs.

This encourages the horizontal leveling that the armory system establishes, and it'll give both "casual" and "hardcore" players something to strive for. An easy goal: job ranks, and a harder goal: physical levels.

While there's really not a lot of difference between 100 and 200 str on HQ rates for blacksmith, this would still be nice. I still spec over to full str for aeolian synths because who knows, but it really jacks my mage up. The more I craft, the more my PIE goes to 1. The more I cast, the more my GS and BS primary stats go to 1.

Yet another thing to keep in mind until after the stat overhauls though. Everything will probably change by summer.

This sounds like a fabulous idea, it is very annoying to keep re-adding and adjusting your actions every time you switch jobs. I do like the flexibility of the base system but it would be nice if certain functionality like this one could be added to make the system that much more enjoyable.

With the new added changes to how stats affect gathering classes, it's even more important to let people save their stat profiles so that they can freely change classes at will.

It's nigh impossible to have an optimal stat loadout for a gathering, crafting, melee, and mage class all a the same time.

It's inevitable that this change will come its just a matter of when.

I'm pretty sure, based on the last players' poll results, they're scrapping Physical Level and each class is getting its own stat points to allot as you see fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mack

I'm pretty sure, based on the last players' poll results, they're scrapping Physical Level and each class is getting its own stat points to allot as you see fit.

---

It wasn't set in stone. I don't think Yoshi P has posted yet on what is definitely going to happen yet. Personally, I'd still want to see physical levels, just so that there's an indicator of who has ranked up multiple jobs to R50. In my opinion, phys level should increase very slowly (with more tangible benefits for having a higher phys level), while rank should increase at the pace it currently does.

Technically having more physical lvl's does have a monster impact on your jobs effectiveness. Its a shame that currently the attributes just play such a minor role in your dmg calculations and its all dLVL. Agreed if they keep physical lvl they should make it so you need 5-6 50's to hit the physical 50 cap.

I would add that we should be able to save a row of skills for each job so that when you change jobs you could quickly load up the saved row of skills. I could have bars labeled like:
WHM-[sacrafice],[cure],[roaming soul],[protect],[shell],[shock spikes],[stone skin]
ENFEEBLE-[bio],[dia],[poison],[slow],[absorb.def],[absorb.att],[bind],[sleep]
LNC main-[heavy thrust],[invigorate],[ferocity],[skewer],[twisting vice],[speed surge]

Macro's are an antiquated way of changing skills or gear, I don't want or need a fancy drag and drop interface I just want to save my current bars and name them.

I'd rather they fix stats so they were worth having.

Right now 100 STR gives a bonus of like 20 Damage in the end game when fighting a similar level monster. Pointless.

I'd love it if they wiped Point Allotment off the field and replaced it with a Blue Mage Skills grant Stats system like in FFXI.

Equip Simian Thrash at level 50, get 10 STR. etc.

I still want to manually set my stats for each job and I will tell you why... What if you want to set up your Conj to be a healer instead of DD or other way around, what if they come out with two handed weapons or dual wielding for gladiator, you may want your gladiator at that point to be a DD instead of tank. with preset stats you cant do this effectively.

IIRC, stats get capped by Rank and fairly easily, plus they don't affect your damage by a noticeable amount (especially when you're starting to spend 3 Points to raise a stat by 1).

All this points to the sign that "it doesn't really matter how you distribute your stats."

Stuff needs some fixin'.

I think stats allocations is getting the axe anyways (thank god) so not sure this suggestion will get much merit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It wasn't set in stone. I don't think Yoshi P has posted yet on what is definitely going to happen yet. Personally, I'd still want to see physical levels, just so that there's an indicator of who has ranked up multiple jobs to R50. In my opinion, phys level should increase very slowly (with more tangible benefits for having a higher phys level), while rank should increase at the pace it currently does.

---

You can't tell what a character's physical level is by examining them. You need to look them up on the Lodestone to see their physical level, in which case you can see if they have multiple 50s or not by a simple glance, so that is a moot point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nikita

You can't tell what a character's physical level is by examining them. You need to look them up on the Lodestone to see their physical level, in which case you can see if they have multiple 50s or not by a simple glance, so that is a moot point.

---

So show a player's phys level when you check them, it's not so hard. My overall point was the restructuring of the importance of phys level, however.

yes please to saving stats for each of our classes, other games all u have to do is log into your other classes. in this game they need to make it just as easy for the one account we use. or after we hit on our main we gonna be bored an quit, no way in hell this time around i'm playing blackmage every event, and every restriction to versatility is one inch closer to me being out the door and u guys ain't get a buck from me yet.

a memory for gear changes like in ffxi would go a long way as well, have it so every class remembers what u were wearing for it and gears it on when u switch that weapon. also it is slow as crap now, and u can't do anything till it's done so it's anoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morticous

I still want to manually set my stats for each job and I will tell you why... What if you want to set up your Conj to be a healer instead of DD or other way around, what if they come out with two handed weapons or dual wielding for gladiator, you may want your gladiator at that point to be a DD instead of tank. with preset stats you cant do this effectively.

---

Most game do this with gear or talents trees, if stats are locked in they will have to balance the game for both DD and healing.

It would just be that healing would favor MND and DD would favor INT.

They may make stat allotment depend on your job in the future, which i think would not be great, because then people will have a lot less playstyle options.
But im weird because honestly i wouldnt mind if they had player selected stats that were very tough to reallocate. IE you basically choose who you are. Of course then you can never be the best at everything but ehhhh i thought people wanted people to not all be the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

They may make stat allotment depend on your job in the future, which i think would not be great, because then people will have a lot less playstyle options.

---

This is what happens when player-set stat points become meaningless because there is only one good way of assigning stat points, i.e. the "Diablo II Syndrome". This is why in Diablo III, stat allotment is automatically set depending on your class.

Personally, I think FF14 can avoid this problem since there are many optimal stat allocation setups that are viable depending if you want your character class to be a tank, support, or DPS role (e.g. DPS pugilist vs Tank pugilist)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

But im weird because honestly i wouldnt mind if they had player selected stats that were very tough to reallocate. IE you basically choose who you are. Of course then you can never be the best at everything but ehhhh i thought people wanted people to not all be the same.

---

Making stats hard to reassign directly contradicts with the philosophy of the armory system - that you can change your class whenever you want and do whatever you want.

The fact that I have to wait 3 hours for even one chance at a partial respec to change from my melee build to my mage build flies right in the face of the "flexibility" of the armory system.

Sure, I could just leave all my stats at 80, but if that's the case, why even bother letting me chance my stats in the first place?

The devs have to make a choice here. Either:

1. Make stats be automatically allocated depending on what class you are so that players don't even have to bother with it (Diablo III method)

or

2. Let players set stats themselves but be free to do it as often as they wish so that it does not interfere with the supposed freedom of the armory system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

This is what happens when player-set stat points become meaningless because there is only one good way of assigning stat points, i.e. the "Diablo II Syndrome". This is why in Diablo III, stat allotment is automatically set depending on your class.

Personally, I think FF14 can avoid this problem since there are many optimal stat allocation setups that are viable depending if you want your character class to be a tank, support, or DPS role (e.g. DPS pugilist vs Tank pugilist)



Making stats hard to reassign directly contradicts with the philosophy of the armory system - that you can change your class whenever you want and do whatever you want.

The fact that I have to wait 3 hours for even one chance at a partial respec to change from my melee build to my mage build flies right in the face of the "flexibility" of the armory system.

Sure, I could just leave all my stats at 80, but if that's the case, why even bother letting me chance my stats in the first place?

The devs have to make a choice here. Either:

1. Make stats be automatically allocated depending on what class you are so that players don't even have to bother with it (Diablo III method)

or

2. Let players set stats themselves but be free to do it as often as they wish so that it does not interfere with the supposed freedom of the armory system.

---

well i kind of see it more like saaayyy final fantasy tactics 2
you can be any job you want, in fact to get some jobs you have to level others, but what job you are when you level effects how your stats are alloted. Essentially you have on one side being able to be any job, and have some cross class abilities, but you stat growth is different, and ends up becoming some combination in relation to race and the jobs you leveled.

I find the concept interesting because your charachter ends up being unique based on how you play, however im not surprised a lot of people want perfect stats. personally i feel it gives peoples charachters some uniqueness, dedicate your life to the sword, and you are better at the sword than at magic, although you can use it to some extent.

anyhow, in this game, i dont know if they expected people to go around with 11 int and 190 str, they probably assumed people would be more balanced, I mean if the game had no resets, im not sure there would be too many people running around with virtually no stats in certain things.

regardless i think they want to remove or alter physical levels, so some change is gonna come to stats in some way shape or form.

may have misunderstood, but i want to be able to move my stats around manually yes, but i want it to save the last set of stats i have though so i don't have to keep doing it when i'm changing classes. Yes save, No to standard stats for each class.

I vote for Rentahamster's option two.

I like being able to set my stats as I please regardless of effectiveness. If I want to be a mage tank Lalafell with a lot of VIT I should be able to do that.

Cutting down on options makes it way to cookie cutter.

You shouldn't be able to do it when engaged with a monster and there should be a cooldown between fights/class changes to prevent abuse of it but nothing drastic like half an hour. The current time for KO is fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhomagus

The current time for KO is fine.

---

I assume you mean cooldown time? For a physical rank 50 character, the time between "reassign"s is over 2 hours, and it doesn't even fully reset your stat points.

I would rather pay Gil to an NPC in town to redistrubute my points, Tanaka spoke about this originally.

1) It's a gil sink (most modern MMO's have a skill/stat reset NPC)
2) There needs to be some form of restriction in that you have to go back to town to reset your stats (perhaps they could add NPC's at the Aethryte to make it more user friendly)

Of course each class should still have their own separate stat profile.

Automatically is the best choice, since we should need to do it to crafter classes and battle classes.
it should suck a lot.

what ever they chose to do they need to make it way easier to change from one class to another. lot of players want to play multiple classes not just one. other mmo's all uneed to do is log the fuck out and log into u'r other class and bam u got u'r class set up, and hell u might have new people to talk to, more dungeons u can chose to do. this is also another reason other games might do better. i never played wow, just some warhammer for a year, played ffxi for 5years. and i'm sorry playing same class is a no thank you. being stuck going blm to every event is a no thanks, having to spend hours a day changing stats,gears is a no thanks. as is now its not fast enough to change. gotta spend a day to redo stats just not fast enough to pop in and out of different events later, or grind for an hour or 2 and then do event, then a diff event or what ever. flexible on this would make the life of game little more better.

Added new tags for "in development".

I'm going to need a little more info about where they're going regarding stat point allocation before I can comment about the new direction they're taking with this. If it leads to less time having to wait around and respec, then it can't be all bad.

I am very mch for being able to save builds, or stat set ups ffrom class to class. I am not okay with it being usable without some reprocussions. Be that a cool down to the nxt time we are alowed to change or something of that nature. I am not for being able to change from a fully defence build GLD to a full offence build THM to a fully healer built CON andback again at will, But I am okay with doing so every couple of hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

I am not for being able to change from a fully defence build GLD to a full offence build THM to a fully healer built CON andback again at will, But I am okay with doing so every couple of hours.

---

Why not? It'll let me change my class freely, which is the point of the armory system.

Think about it: if I was able to change my class freely and have my stat/skill/gear loadout change freely with it as well so that it would revert to the state it was in the last time I was that job, how would that be able to be used to exploit the game? I can't think of any. Can you?

I agree on the why not since its not like you can change class mid fight anyway, if you fancy changing class from mob to mob, go ahead, Cant see any reasons you would want to, but if you fancied it, go ahead.

yeah agreed, the opposite though is being stuck using the same class for years and years. for those who like this can, cause the others like me that like using multiple classes can freely change to what is needed or what they are in the mood to play. set the change in stone then make game play according, i don't think there is any exploits that can happen, and if any they can't fix.

Hey everyone, I know you're all excited to see how allocating stats will change in the future! While we can't give away too many specific details, we did confirm with the team that on class rank up the process of allocating points will still be controlled by the player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey everyone, I know you're all excited to see how allocating stats will change in the future! While we can't give away too many specific details, we did confirm with the team that on class rank up the process of allocating points will still be controlled by the player.

---

Very nice! Dat Opo-opo brings the juicy fruits of info.

I hope that it works well with the incoming stat balancing so that each stat has decent relative importance to the others, depending on what kind of character the player wants to create.

In other words some sort of strategy to minimize the problem we have now of certain stats being useless compared to other stats (like how VIT, MND, and PIE scale linearly in effectiveness, while the other stats have diminishing returns)

Basically, it's the same problem Diablo II has.