Dev tracker: it's what we asked for, so why the negativity? Cheer on SE :)

After a little kick off from some of the devs reports recently (Dev 1037 to keep it current), there have been many threads complaining about this.

Most of which, are about the lack of work SE are doing, and the lack of response from SE. I personally find this as disrespectful and ungreatful.

Lack of response

People are demanding more feedback from devs, what exactly is it you want feedback on? We have had feedback on graphics updates (dev 037), introduction of companies, instancing, more quests, aims on patches 1.17-1.18, letters from the producer etc etc.

Sorry, but how much more feedback can you ask for?? The only thing left is if SE personally ring on your door and talk to eack customer one on one (although by the players negative, i am imagining some sort of Jay and Silent Bob scenario).


Lack of Work

we have been given outlines (without giving away too much) about what to expect within the next month or so. It is clear that SE are pulling out all the stops to save this game (Yes, it was a naff start, we all admit that, and we shoild all be over that to).

We are seeing graphics improvements, Dev members commenting on a number of posts, hinting on what is in store. This includes caracter creation, accessory slots, battle development, the lot.

So, apart from overhauling the entire game (at near 20Gig, thats no small task), how do you propose they can work harder?


Positive conclusion

Why not give SE a break from the complaints? Most the people here are still playing the game, there must be something which is attracting you to it.

Even if that attraction is waiting to see what develops, if thats the case, hold fire on criticisms until ps3 release, many are doing the same. Why not give SE a bit of breathing space and allow them to focus more on the development of the game?

I will close with this, SE have put their hands up in regards to this game, instead of kicking someone when they are down, greet them with a smile.

I hope this is a positive influence :)

Kimiko x

Agreed, Kimiko. ^^

There's nothing wrong with posting your opinions on what you'd like to see fixed, added, or changed in FFXIV. That's what they want us to do.

But it's entirely unnecessary to lob insults at the developers constantly.. even if they aren't personally reading your posts. They'll get more done with positive feedback and support. Unfortunately you can't find a thread on this forum where someone isn't losing their temper and going off on a rant.. Unless the thread is about boobs or cake. Delicious cake.

I personally hope that the lack of developments people seem to think are going on is because of a huge overhaul the game is going under and that will take time. So I am happy to wait for now but I would be lying if I said I didn't want some more news and info from them ASAP.

I think I am going to carry on playing and see how the next few updates turn out but if they don't do something huge soon then I think I will lose faith in their ability to turn the game around.

dam right i dont understand why people keep bitching about not getting what they want in the game. In real life you dont always get things you're way and for it to be into a game would just be choas. Everyone should just be thankful that sqaure enix take there time to look at there post and the big man himself writes us letter with information, (maybe not much but still somethng at least.)

Plus a lot of people i noticed on few post flicking threw some threads there bitch about sqaure not working hard enough right now. GOd they just suffer a huge lose by that wave. If you don't like where the game is going right now then find a game that you do like. Gave sqaure enix some time to get back on there feet and just be thankful that they are trying to fix the game on our idea's Stop the demanding and bitching when they don't say or give you what you.

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There's nothing wrong with posting your opinions on what you'd like to see fixed, added, or changed in FFXIV. That's what they want us to do.

But it's entirely unnecessary to lob insults at the developers constantly

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Thankyou very much Grit. Constructive criticism is great. Like you said, the want that. But as you pointed out, when it just gets insulting, thats a little much.

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I think I am going to carry on playing and see how the next few updates turn out but if they don't do something huge soon then I think I will lose faith in their ability to turn the game around.

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AlexiaKidd (good name btw, used to love playing that), I'm in the same boat. Giving SE a chance to turn things around and pull the rabbit out of the hat. Like you, I truely hope they do well. Fingers crossed.

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Plus a lot of people i noticed on few post flicking threw some threads there bitch about sqaure not working hard enough right now. GOd they just suffer a huge lose by that wave. If you don't like where the game is going right now then find a game that you do like. Gave sqaure enix some time to get back on there feet and just be thankful that they are trying to fix the game on our idea's Stop the demanding and bitching when they don't say or give you what you.

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It is horrid to say, but i think alot of people forget that in the "fury of the game". I would rather wait a little longer for Japan to get back on its feet than them to hurry with patches as priority one

I agree, we knew in advance this game would be less time consuming. I played dcuo and imo its in worst shape then ffxi. Its first update/ event was delayed we had a nice week late valentines event. Now their next update is a mnth late and we getting a nice late st patricts day event. With a villian sprouting rainbows making fun of irish. (and our love of green beer) I'm like wtf.... really an irish event and ya make fun of us.

Their chat text is too small to read. PPl say its the players fault for not having an hdtv. Also ppl love how fast it takes to lvl (3 days solo)
the cities are copy and pasted down to the basic layout as are the safe houses. in pvp ever is ontop of everyone so makes leveling asinine.

People on the station forum praise dcuo up and down. Why is ythat game getting praised yet ffxiv is getting well trolled.

Also most the quests are all the same kill each teir enenay run a dingeon kill the main boss. level 30 is the max, but don;t assume u can raid right away. you need xyx gear.

I have no reason to condemn the new team before we see what they can do. Now, if they put out the new stuff and it's terrible that's a different matter entirely. But they haven't even issued their overhaul or their content patch. That will only be the start of making this game what it's supposed to be.

If the game bothers people so much, leave for a month or two and play an offline game or something. It will not only do yourself a lot of good, it will serve the community better as well. Hell, if I have nothing else to do in game I'll just end up playing PSO or Pokemon. Why don't others do the same?

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It is horrid to say, but i think alot of people forget that in the "fury of the game". I would rather wait a little longer for Japan to get back on its feet than them to hurry with patches as priority one

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Yea people just dont seem to get the reason ffxiv was shut down for so long, they act like it never happened. What i just don't get is y they keep yapping at them for doing nothing when there working there asses of, and if they hate where the game is going and so on why not pick a different game up not like ffxiv is really the only game out there in the world. But would be funny if it was lol.

I agree with OP completely, give them a break. They have gave us almost everything they have at the moment and the stuff they want to tell us, they are working on, such as companies. (which im excited about)

Pretty much agree with OP on everything at this point.... they're probably so far up to the ears in work to do that they really can't waste alot of time dedicating people just to keep up with the community on a daily basis.

Not to mention it is quite obvious that the game was rushed/fell behind on schedule... I'm sure they have plenty of their own ideas to work with, they just have yet to implement them due to technical constrains

Quite honestly, the negativity comes from those who have not even a fraction of knowledge of how game development is -- You aren't just sitting on your hands just because you don't say anything every single minute of the day. While true the XI team is more communicative, they also have significantly less work to do than the XIV team does.

We all want to hear stuff we want to hear, but there's a good possibility they already have an outline on what to announce and when, especially given the delay that rightfully happened. What gets me is people commented on every aspect of how the animation and particle effects need to be redone, they announce and literally show us they're working on doing as such, people still complain.

There's a time worn thought process:

"Step by step, inch by inch."

Resizing the animations clearly lets more detail be shown instead of just blowing up a small image on a big mob (current system), then from there they can obviously do more effects.

I agree with OP, and I agree with kidd. I just look forward to weekly letters from the producer.

I always thought that these days they've been pretty good to us, weekly updates on what's going down is pretty nice.

I really have no complains and content is coming soon. Negativity be damned.

It's just the classic example of people b****ing no matter what. There is no way to win.

They don't give us updates; people b****
They give us updates; people b****
They don't give players what they're b****ing about; people b****
They give players what they're b****ing about; people b****.

This is precisely why people who b**** without giving constructive feedback and suggestions for what could be done instead need to be ignored completely.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

It's just the classic example of people b****ing no matter what. There is no way to win.

They don't give us updates; people b****
They give us updates; people b****
They don't give players what they're b****ing about; people b****
They give players what they're b****ing about; people b****.

This is precisely why people who b**** without giving constructive feedback and suggestions for what could be done instead need to be ignored completely.

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Could'nt have said it better myself :)

sorry reapeated post lol

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It's just the classic example of people b****ing no matter what. There is no way to win.

They don't give us updates; people b****
They give us updates; people b****
They don't give players what they're b****ing about; people b****
They give players what they're b****ing about; people b****.

This is precisely why people who b**** without giving constructive feedback and suggestions for what could be done instead need to be ignored completely.

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I think the phrase for this example is "give someone a bag of gold, they complain how heavy it is" lol

I don't agree. The only thing that's improving about the game are the user interfaces and stability issues.
They continue to underperform in the areas that need work, and new content is the same poor quality as the old content. Nothing's changed. They can be given a break when they produce a single hit that looks inspired and talent-driven. Until then, no. Giving them a break does this game a disservice. This is Final Fantasy. If that name is lost on these developers, there are plenty who would kill for the opportunity. I'm just sayin.

Concern: lack of content
Response: one quest modded 17 times. IMO they did not get reprimanded enough for those quests. They were horrible, and yet we didn't really communicate that to them because so many other things were broken. We didn't do our job at evaluating the new content, and now they've released mediocre new content that just blends in with the old mediocre content. Give them a break? No, the appropriate thing to do is not let up.

Concern: lackluster spells
Response: Double the size. That's not what we were talking about. Doubling the size indicates that they're hearing but not listening. These are not pay to play caliber spell effects. They eventually will need redone. Done over. Started from nothing. That's what we said. We expect more than this.

These are new responses. And yet these are old responses, the same responses that ran this game into the ground.

To me, their development quality has BECOME their subscription fee. I won't give them any breaks, and will continue to indicate that their efforts are still free to play caliber, until they produce a hit.

And let me tell ya, I am not enthusiastic about this 2nd wave of quests. At all.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I don't agree. The only thing that's improving about the game are the user interfaces and stability issues.
They continue to underperform in the areas that need work, and new content is the same poor quality as the old content. Nothing's changed. They can be given a break when they produce a single hit that looks inspired and talent-driven. Until then, no. Giving them a break does this game a disservice. This is Final Fantasy. If that name is lost on these developers, there are plenty who would kill for the opportunity. I'm just sayin.

Concern: lack of content
Response: one quest modded 17 times. IMO they did not get reprimanded enough for those quests. They were horrible, and yet we didn't really communicate that to them because so many other things were broken. We didn't do our job at evaluating the new content, and now they've released mediocre new content that just blends in with the old mediocre content. Give them a break? No, the appropriate thing to do is not let up.

Concern: lackluster spells
Response: Double the size. That's not what we were talking about. Doubling the size indicates that they're hearing but not listening. These are not pay to play caliber spell effects. They eventually will need redone. Done over. Started from nothing. That's what we said. We expect more than this.

These are new responses. And yet these are old responses, the same responses that ran this game into the ground.

To me, their development quality has BECOME their subscription fee. I won't give them any breaks, and will continue to indicate that their efforts are still free to play caliber, until they produce a hit.

And let me tell ya, I am not enthusiastic about this 2nd wave of quests. At all.

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Well here's the thing. As already mentioned in this thread, I don't think anyone has objections to pointing out that something that has been produced by the development team is unsatisfactory. We want a great game, and they want to provide us with a great game. It would be a disservice to let them go ahead and push forward new things for us that we simply do not like.

However, if you find something is not to your liking, how do you go about expressing your dissatisfaction? Do you make a thoughtful well put together post about why you're upset, possibly pointing out ideas on how to improve it. Or do you just sling mud around and waste space? Looking at your post I would imagine you'd do the right thing posting in a constructive manner, and that's all we as fellow community members and the development team can ask for.

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While true the XI team is more communicative, they also have significantly less work to do than the XIV team does.

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I wouldn't say so. They are simply telling the community things we have been aware of for months already, and stuff that would have been already implemented in past patches here.

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They continue to underperform in the areas that need work

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How can you judge their performance when they haven't even shown the results to us yet?

"Hey, here is the 3D polygonal model of the new Auction House, it's a bit unfinished but we just wanted to implement it anyway. This is the code we are using to develop it, see how much we've progressed!?"

This is what you want to see? Lol.

They won't show us anything before there is something to show. Some things take more time to complete than the others. Guess which ones take longer- the small UI improvements or the massive combat and class system rehauls?

At this point, their version of the game is vastly different from ours. Yet it's probably filled with bugs and unfinished aspects that need to be taken care of before they can actually release it.

In this arena, MLK Jr tactics get steamrolled. Loud voices get heard. My largest concern is that Square Enix is taking advantage of your all's goodhearted nature and easy appeasy demeanor right now, because that's what Yoshi-P was brought on to do as the best business strategy. He is very good at making you think he's on your side, but is the game better? No, it is not. The user interface and stability is starting to look like retail product, but not the game. Not even the new content of the game.

I see the last three consecutive new releases...those quests...these spells...that holiday...as smoke and mirror tactics meant to divert your attention and pacify you, not correct their deficiencies. If plied well enough, and spun softly enough, they can divert player attention from problems that are not being solved and look like they are presenting solutions when they really aren't.

They have cut so many corners in these new releases, that there isn't any more easy, low-caliber content left to try to divert with. They're out of chaff. They burned another holiday event. That's not going to help any concerns. Doubling the size of spells doesn't make them pay to play caliber effects. Those quests don't add any value to the product at all. They were all easy, simple, pseudofixes. Pseudofixes.

I've been a fan of SE long enough to know when they're trying to pull a fast one and get out of a situation by careful management of a crisis instead of fundamental improvement of what got them there. God love em, but they just don't change in the end. They're the same company they've ever been.

This is one of those times when you just need to backhand them and tell them you know what they're trying to do and it's not going to work.

If that second batch of quests come out like crap...you will have to pull me off a moderator here. We can't continue at this current trajectory. Those quests are going to come out before the battle engine and PVE content and job overhaul is my guess, and they will be proof as to what SE's commitment to quality actually is, or if they're just overwhelmed to the point of decompensation.

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I see the last three consecutive new releases...those quests...these spells...that holiday...as smoke and mirror tactics meant to divert your attention and pacify you, not correct their deficiencies.

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Then what the hell do you suggest them do? What is your superior alternative?

Real fixes take longer to complete. That is a fact, simple as that. Should they not do anything before said real fixes are done, or should they at least make it look like they are making steady progress? This is the difference between monthly and tri-monthly patches. Smoke and mirrors vs. everything at once.

As the end result is the same regardless, I like monthly patches. It gives us something to look forward to every month, even if the big stuff takes longer to develop.

So, I ask you once again- what the hell is this superior alternative to smoke and mirrors? You don't develop any larger fix in a month. Or even two months. We get either nothing or something small. That won't change no matter how you slice and dice it.

It was clear from the very beginning that when you are working on rehauls of the core game features, you won't see the results before enough time has passed. We are just now approaching that stage.

"The evil corporation is tricking you all! Because I say so!".

Please...

I agree completely with the OP. I'd rather have them at work on the game than on humoring me with detailed reports that don't really add much to my enjoyment of the game.
I'm judging every update as it comes, and I will do so in the future. So far they have done a good job, and if they'll continue doing a good job in a reasonable time (something that certain people have absolutely no idea of, with their "I want it now!" attitude), then I'll stay. Otherwise I'll just find myself another game. This one has already provided me with plenty fun and gameplay to justify it's initial cost anyway.

Continuously screamed unconstructive bashing helps no one and is absolutely unsightly to see and read. People that think that by "backhanding" (without the slightest idea of how game development works, and of the work the team is actually doing) they can help the game improve need a reality check. Unconstructive radio noise isn't even relayed to the developers. They have plenty enough to read with all the actually constructive and useful posts.
All the shouting, bashing and "backhanding", has the sole effect of sinking the aforementioned constructive and useful posts, and making the job of the community team harder in distinguishing legit signals from the radio noise, while creating reports for the devs to read.
Not only it's not useful, but it's detrimental.

Constructiveness is the only way to help.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

So, I ask you once again- what the hell is this superior alternative to smoke and mirrors? You don't develop any larger fix in a month. Or even two months. We get either nothing or something small. That won't change no matter how you slice and dice it..

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Apologies for those quests before they were relased would be a start. Assurances that they do not represent the standard that SE envisions AS THEY ARE RELEASED. They should admit that the spell sizes isn't their primary response to what we think of the spells. They should admit that their first batch of quests are low-caliber and simple. They should come right out and say that the holiday event caused no delays in any MEANINGFUL content.

They continue to hype free to play caliber content instead of being honest with the players. I want them to tell me they know those quests weren't representative of their intended quality, before I have to point that fact out.

The superior alternative is some humility for humiliating content.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Apologies for those quests before they were relased would be a start. Assurances that they do not represent the standard that SE envisions AS THEY ARE RELEASED. They should admit that the spell sizes isn't their primary response to what we think of the spells. They should admit that their first batch of quests are low-caliber and simple. They should come right out and say that the holiday event caused no delays in any MEANINGFUL content.

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Basically what you want is just a bunch more negativity.

There's no apology owed to anyone for *optional* content, that actually gives some nice insight on several areas of the game's lore, and implements the system for bigger pieces of content in the future.
You don't enjoy them? It's not doctors' orders to play them. I do.

Anyone with a shred of logic knew very well that the first quests to be implemented were the most basic ones, that take less time to be developed. That's what they're called SIDE-quests.
Developers owe no apologies for personal and unrealistic expectations.

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They continue to hype free to play caliber content instead of being honest with the players. I want them to tell me they know those quests weren't representative of their intended quality, before I have to point that fact out.

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They're "hyping" absolutely nothing. They're simply communicating. Please quote a single developer post that states that any of those changes you complain so much about (and that others quite evidently enjoy) will have any big impact on the game.
Otherwise, the devs aren't the ones using smoke and mirrors here.

I am grateful for all the works SE, the mods, the translators, etc. are doing. Receiving news on the forum from time to time is much better than none at all! :D

I just hope our threads get read and are brought to the devs before they are drowned in the flow of other threads.
Since we can't send suggestion directly to SE now, I fear some good suggestions may fall in the dept of the forum before they are brought to the devs if they don't catch enough attention at the right time.

Other than that, I think the forum is a great way of communication between us and SE, good work!

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Apologies for those quests before they were relased would be a start. Assurances that they do not represent the standard that SE envisions AS THEY ARE RELEASED. They should admit that the spell sizes isn't their primary response to what we think of the spells. They should admit that their first batch of quests are low-caliber and simple. They should come right out and say that the holiday event caused no delays in any MEANINGFUL content.

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This is all fluff that does not affect the end result in any shape or form. They have already stated quite explicitly that improving the core game features is their number one priority, not putting out additional content. Once content becomes a larger priority for them, the quality will also get better. Right now it is not their primary concern. You may disagree with the approach, but now that is just a subjective opinion at best.

They do not "hype" anything. They tell us what they are about to do. They have not stated "this will be awesome!". Quite the opposite in-fact. They state things how they are. This is smoke and mirrors and far as I am concerned, and I have not received any statement from the developers that would lead me to believe something else. You hype yourself by thinking they can somehow make a miracle happen in a month, or because you think they focus on your selfish needs while in fact they do not, and then expect an apology for that. They have decided that getting the core features on-par is more important than making sure the content is of high quality for the time being. Deal with it.

A thread complaining about complainers, never seen this before on the internetz.

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Originally Posted by Mega

A thread complaining about complainers, never seen this before on the internetz.

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It's actually a quite nice thread that encourages constructive behavioir. There should be more of those on the internetz.

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Originally Posted by Mega

A thread complaining about complainers, never seen this before on the internetz.

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Is it wrong to ask for a bit of civility and constructive feedback for the developers?

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This is all fluff that does not affect the end result in any shape or form.

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Should be the top of every single update until something that isn't fluff is released. They have the fanboys. The fringe players look at these updates and laugh.

Looks like their solution, and it's a terrible solution. Doubling the spell sizes. Boy that will sure change our tune.

Announcing that they're doubling the spell sizes without reminding players that they plan spell effect overhauls makes them look like buffoons. Because size wasn't the problem. Them being mediocre in their entirety is.

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A thread complaining about complainers, never seen this before on the internetz

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As both Abriael and Spellbinder have pointed out, this is not a complain thread. This thread is to encourage constructive feedback, not feedback which is derogitory and uses everything SE announces as an excuse to rant more about how people feel the game is at fault.

Of course, if someone has an opinion about something, it makes sense to share it. But in a respectful and constructive manner, please. Not the "Whatever you change is not good enough, I demand more. Oh, and a free bike". Take this chance to express your concerns, but in a way which moves the descussions forward :)

Kimiko x

The best constructive criticism I can give the devs right now is to do exactly what they're doing already, which is to take the game back into the shop and give it an overhaul.

After further examination of things in the game as well as going back through the story line quests on youtube to brush up on my lore, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the state in which the game was allowed to release is horrendous.

Yoshi and his crew can take all the time they need, as I imagine they'll need every second they can get.

Somehow that laundry list of things to do in his Letters doesn't seem as comprehensive as it might need to be... >.>

People can't see the forest for the trees.

I find myself having to constantly defend them now, not because I think the game is particularly good, but because I think people judging them based on the stupidest and least insightful opinions they can muster.

We don't know what they have and haven't done. We have no way of telling and, considering the fact we're not even paying for the damn thing, no right to demand any more of them.

EDIT: To add, read that Gamasutra interview, SE is paying out of its own pocket for this game, I can GUARANTEE you that the higher ups won't be letting a single person in that dev team slack at all.

Also, I think it's about time we had a thread like this to try and counter-balance the ridiculous and ecessive negativity the unwashed masses are spreading for little to no good reason other than throwing their shit out the pram because they think they could design a game better.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

I find myself having to constantly defend them now, not because I think the game is particularly good, but because I think people judging them based on the stupidest and least insightful opinions they can muster.

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This part sums it up really well. Nothing left to say.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Should be the top of every single update until something that isn't fluff is released. They have the fanboys. The fringe players look at these updates and laugh.

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No, the actual changes to the game are never fluff. Them "apologizing" and telling how they "appreciate the players" or otherwise doing something that doesn't affect the game in any shape or form is fluff.

Size was the problem. For both monsters and the particle effects. Whether that is the only thing that needs fixing or not is irrelevant. The fact is that it needed to be fixed. And to be frank, it's better to get the fast fixes out of the way that make a noticeable difference before tackling the more challenging problems. That is not "a terrible solution". It is a solution that makes sense. Although in a way, I can see why you would consider such solution "terrible".

You are simply clueless.

OT: now topic where devs reply are marked with a crown :D c'mon, cry on the "dev aggro icon" !

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The best constructive criticism I can give the devs right now is to do exactly what they're doing already, which is to take the game back into the shop and give it an overhaul.

After further examination of things in the game as well as going back through the story line quests on youtube to brush up on my lore, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the state in which the game was allowed to release is horrendous.

Yoshi and his crew can take all the time they need, as I imagine they'll need every second they can get.

Somehow that laundry list of things to do in his Letters doesn't seem as comprehensive as it might need to be... >.>

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You sir, are the model example which I was expressing. Opinons, expressed in a construtive way. With luck, many will follow your example and think about what they are posting. You never know, you may start off a trend :)

I truely hope so

Kimiko x