Possible story-based areas for end-game

So I've been playing a lot of FFXI while waiting for ARR beta to start and I had a sudden thought, "How amazing would it be to see an area like sky or sea with ARR's graphics engine?" Now, I was a die-hard FFXI fan for about 4 years, and even though abyssea and GoV parties really ruined the game for me I still find Sea to be one of the most incredible areas in any video game, even with XI's 10 year old graphics.

What I would love to see are areas similar to sky and sea, unlocked after progressing so far into the story missions, and have them be dedicated to end-game. FFXI pulled this off really well because you only had to do the missions and unlock the areas if you were interested in end-game. And I don't know about any of you but I like working for my end-game content, not just slapping a party together, going to the dungeon/primal fight, finishing or wiping, and then disbanding like is seen in so many modern MMOs. You miss out on that sense of community that playing in an MMO should give you. Besides not only does it add end-game content but it also adds to the feel of the storyline, especially in 11, being able to actually go to the places that are mentioned throughout the story was pretty badass.

The sad part about it though is I kinda don't think ARR will have stuff like this, mainly due the fact that they're focusing more on instanced end-game, and I think that's a big mistake. It's way too linear with instanced content, for example, you have the choice to run dungeons A, B, or C, you go finish the dungeon, and that's that. It's the same everytime you run it. With end-game zones though, like sky for example, it's more like, ok we can go farm these NMs and finish a genbu or byakko pop, or try and get both items for a seiryu/suzaku pop. Sea was the same way, but it even had an additional end-game zone inside of it. Both areas offer much more variety in how you want to progress over the course of several days, and you don't get burned out nearly as fast as you would grinding the same dungeons I think. These are just my opinions on the matter, but what do you guys think? Would you like to see unlocked areas as part of the storyline? And Yoshi-P, I trust you with ARR and think you're doing a great job, but if you see this post please, PLEASE, consider what I've said :D

I would love to see something like Tavnazian Safehold, Lufaise Meadows, Sealion's Den, Al'Taieu and Grand Palace of Hu'Xzoi. Was my favorite places to hang out.

I tend to agree with your sentiments. I did feel that FFXIV always lacked a concrete, long-term goal to accomplish with non-gear rewards. People will call it elitism and claim exclusivity is not a virtue, but the feeling you get when you first stepped out onto Sea after months of hard work was exhilarating. The vista alone was beautiful, but even that would not have been the same without the feeling of accomplishment that "I have achieved this view through my own struggles and hard work".

I'd like to see new concepts for these "End-Game Areas", but the idea behind them is awsome. It would be great having open areas accessible only when you reach a desired GC Rank, or complete a particulare mission.

I definitely think there should be a balance of instanced and non-instanced endgame areas and dungeons.

Unfortunately I think 2.0 will be heavily weighted towards instances for all levels. *sadface*

The thing I hate most about instances is the entry requirement. If I just want to try and run around, solo, farm, maybe with beastmaster eventually, I can't. I need 4 people. So annoying.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

I definitely think there should be a balance of instanced and non-instanced endgame areas and dungeons.

Unfortunately I think 2.0 will be heavily weighted towards instances for all levels. *sadface*

The thing I hate most about instances is the entry requirement. If I just want to try and run around, solo, farm, maybe with beastmaster eventually, I can't. I need 4 people. So annoying.

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I too would like some non-instanced dungeons like sky. The thing what I really liked about sky is the nights where I was in Teamspeak while farming items for countless hours. Sure the farming can be boring sometimes but I LOVED the moment a NM popped and the whole LS gets psyched because you claimed it, and not the other PT. I miss the competition over these things.

Have faith in SE they will deliver in grand scale this time around. Great things are coming our way just be patient.

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Originally Posted by Allesasi

Have faith in SE they will deliver in grand scale this time around. Great things are coming our way just be patient.

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Hmmm, in this case, I don't know about that. As I said above, I would love to see this. But it doesn't really mesh with their stated vision. Accessibility is the hot word of the year for FFXIV:ARR, so restricted content like this is something I don't think they would agree with. Yoshi-P - admittedly over-quoted - said that they want this to be a themepark game. Themeparks rarely have a You-Must-Be-This-Tall... wait, bad analogy. Themeparks rarely have gated communities.

Just remember XI didnt have areas like these either at release. They came with expansions.

Will we see a sky or sea or anything of that sort? Likely since FF titles almost always include areas in the sky and under the water. So optimism is your friend here ^^ the big question is whether or not they will be instanced. I'm hoping they will do a mix of instanced and non-instanced. The mistake I hope they do not repeat is putting non-instanced, highly sought after nm in a far away spot with a 24-48+ hr respawn. Bad enough you had to camp a nm for 4 days non-stop just to loose it to another ls, but it made it all the more rage inducing when you lost it to the armies of bots that always sat there. So instances have there merits.

The only thing I had with sky in xi was that it was very disappointing graphically to me, where sea was wonderous when you first entered. Sky basically was a floating delkfutts with a tree here and there. I was so excited and when I got there I was kindda let down. I have high hopes for anything this dev team does tho, esp since after the cut and paste nightmare of v1 I am sure they are going to try to make areas more unique in 2.0

I'm not really into the whole end game thing (I only did Dynamis once, only went through Nyzul to get to floor 100, went to Sky and Sea only for the story fights/look around/farm Kindred Crests for the later Limit Breaks, etc. in XI and only did what dungeons I had to for my AF in XIV) but I would love areas unlocked by stroyline progress especially if they are amazing and/or unique looking. I agree that the feeeling of accomplishment when I finally got those areas was one of my favourite experiences in XI.

I agree with you OP. I hope for open-world areas/content unlocked through progression of missions or quests. But, I also agree with Hulan in that it doesn't really seem like the direction ARR is headed. I would expect more along the lines of what we've already seen.. similar to the content experienced in MMOs like Rift and WoW (heavily heavily heavily instanced, with some focus on open-world content), at least as far as this year is concerned. If ARR lasts for at least a good couple years it should get some decent expansions that I'd hope will start to incorporate a more open-world and dynamic feel to the game.

There was a thread started by "ThePatriarch" (iirc) that went for a lonngg time addressing this somewhat. It was moreso focused on all open-world content, but your storyline open-world area suggestion would also work perfectly for that thread too. It used to be reviewed by the mods, idk if they still do though (although they should... ARR could still definetly use alot of the suggestions in that thread..)

Pre-requisites for entering end-game areas are fine, imo, as long as they are solo or relatively easy to do with pickup groups, and don't require several weeks to finish.

COP was a pain in the ass to do with pickup groups for a very long time, and really only static groups got through with it. It was a poor design choice. At the same time, totally open, no-requirement end-game content is bland, boring, and doesn't give any sense of satisfaction. I'm looking at you, WOW.

Also that said, there's really no reason not to instance end-game raids. If the argument is "well in Sea you could go to X, Y, or Z", then I can simply give Salvage as an example, or WOW's Naxxramas raid as examples of non-linear, but instanced raids.

Open area and instanced does not automatically imply linear content, that's a different design choice that should not happen and I hope the community will be up in arms about it if it does. I know I will.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

COP was a pain in the ass to do with pickup groups for a very long time, and really only static groups got through with it. It was a poor design choice. At the same time, totally open, no-requirement end-game content is bland, boring, and doesn't give any sense of satisfaction. I'm looking at you, WOW.

Also that said, there's really no reason not to instance end-game raids. If the argument is "well in Sea you could go to X, Y, or Z", then I can simply give Salvage as an example, or WOW's Naxxramas raid as examples of non-linear, but instanced raids. .

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CoP was actually pretty awesome for me, some of my best memories there. I completed all of CoP thru pickups (and this was ofc way prior to Abyssea, I started XI right after ToAU came out) but the key was I was totally comfortable leading and organzing the parties. Just took a little research online of the battle strat, and they only spend up to an hour or so finding the members I need/want. I also always jotted down my party members when doing missions because I'd look for them again (if they weren't completely useless) for later missions and could get my groups together quickly because of that.

It was a good experience for me, but I can understand it being a pain for those who'd rather not try to form their own parties. I couldn't always take everyone who may have done an earlier mission with me, and even long after I completed CoP, I'd still see shouts for those same ppl trying to get that same mission done, like 6 months later.. You either had to catch the hype when the expansion was released, or take initiative and setup and organize the party yourself (different from just recruiting 6 members and being like 'uh, so what should we do now..?')

Salvage was one of the few things in XI I barely touched, only entered it once (I was still focusing up maxing out my AU rank and grinding Nyzul) but I didn't realize it was an instance. I thought they were separate zones, like Dynamis, that only one group could enter at a time? Either way, yea XI did have it's instances, but it wasn't like the instanced content we get these days, which are pretty linear indeed.

I honestly never really had a problem with CoP, but then again I ran the parties and found my own people. Sure there were times I got a horrible group and we wiped a lot but I still wouldn't trade that experience. It was fun, and I definitely hope they create areas that require party oriented storyline to be unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

COP was a pain in the ass to do with pickup groups for a very long time, and really only static groups got through with it. It was a poor design choice. At the same time, totally open, no-requirement end-game content is bland, boring, and doesn't give any sense of satisfaction. I'm looking at you, WOW.

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I think the only thing that was bad about CoP was the fact that after every battle mission you had 2 more with jp midnight restrictions and 3 that required you to cross the world 5 times to speak with 2 npcs back and forth. The actual battle content and lvl restricted areas were loads of fun and when you finished them you really felt like you accomplished something.

I did the entirety of all the expansions with pugs since my ls was dyna/salvage/MMM/etc and had little issue. Yes there was always that one idiot who didnt know left from right but we generally would d2 them or leave them for dead after they died the 10th time. Same went for endgame too, our dyna runs always had a ls member who was a blm in each group to just d2 the idiots. If you cant follow simple instructions like "walk dont run, and stay close to the wall" yep byebye, u lost your chance at the win, any drops and another chance for us to take you.

The nice thing we will have in ARR is the content finder, hopefully if it works the way Im hopin it will, there wont be a need to sit in ul'dah and /sh for 2 hrs to put together a group. And the bad or jerk players get a rep real quick. The only players I would cut any slack were the ones who may have been bad but were trying to learn and if their gear was sub-par, well if you wanna make a real effort I was there to help. These players also get a rep and tend to get helped more and eventually become first class in their fav jobs.

From a design perspective, I think the main problem most people have with mission limited content (such as zones) is the difficulty finding people who need it. This is certainly a valid concern - I've never had an issue with it myself, but it's undeniable that some people are just going to come late to the party and find it very difficult to find enough kindred spirits.

The solution, as I see it, is offering completion credit to players who finish a mission multiple times. A similar series of ideas is mentioned in Achievement Ideas Anyone. Basically, tangible and intangible cumulative rewards for helping other people complete missions. Certainly, I know if we had gotten GC seals for doing To Kill A Raven people would have been shoving to help out people who hadn't finished yet.

Yep dangle those achievements in front of us and here we come lol

Other than that unless your helping a friend or linkmate who does things twice without reward?

Thats one of the reasons my ls had a "help a noob" policy, we always had at least 1 person we were helping through content and what not. Idk how many times ive climbed nyzul 1-100 just to get someone their key but I must say I enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by Exn

CoP was actually pretty awesome for me, some of my best memories there. I completed all of CoP thru pickups (and this was ofc way prior to Abyssea, I started XI right after ToAU came out) but the key was I was totally comfortable leading and organzing the parties. Just took a little research online of the battle strat, and they only spend up to an hour or so finding the members I need/want. I also always jotted down my party members when doing missions because I'd look for them again (if they weren't completely useless) for later missions and could get my groups together quickly because of that.

It was a good experience for me, but I can understand it being a pain for those who'd rather not try to form their own parties. I couldn't always take everyone who may have done an earlier mission with me, and even long after I completed CoP, I'd still see shouts for those same ppl trying to get that same mission done, like 6 months later.. You either had to catch the hype when the expansion was released, or take initiative and setup and organize the party yourself (different from just recruiting 6 members and being like 'uh, so what should we do now..?')

Salvage was one of the few things in XI I barely touched, only entered it once (I was still focusing up maxing out my AU rank and grinding Nyzul) but I didn't realize it was an instance. I thought they were separate zones, like Dynamis, that only one group could enter at a time? Either way, yea XI did have it's instances, but it wasn't like the instanced content we get these days, which are pretty linear indeed.

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I did COP before TOAU, but they relaxed it some in TOAU as well (and you also had new jobs, gear, and battle mechanics to use).

Don't get me wrong, being among the first 20-something people who got Sea access on the server felt good, and the zone's design will always stand out to me as among the best in any MMO I've played.

But reflecting on it now, after years of playing and trying other MMOs, putting end-game content at the end of a very long, hard, and multiplayer-required quest chain frustrates a lot of people. What's worse, is that if very few people actually get to do that content, you've basically wasted money, time, and effort creating something that your playerbase won't really get to enjoy.

You need a mid-way between gating your content, and laying it all out from the beginning. I was a huge fan of Salvage, Dynamis, Assault Missions, because they had some fairly minor entry requirements, and you built up to the later stages by completing previous stages. I was also a fan of how attunements were done in WOW:BC; you needed to do a few 5-man dungeons to get access to the entry level raid, an effort that took at most a day if you dedicated your time to it. Every raid after simply required you to beat the previous one.

What I don't like is FFXI's Sea that most people didn't get to see (heh) after months of trying; and new WOW-style raids that can all be hit up as soon as you reach max level, even if you haven't completed the previous tier.

Also Dynamis is still technically an instance, it's just that only one was available at a time. You had all the characteristics of an instance: other groups couldn't come in and join you or steal your stuff, the mobs were generated fresh each time, it was a totally separate zone, it was on a timer, etc.

Yeah Sky didn't come until Rise of the Zilart expansion and Sea came with Chains of Promathia, so I hope we get something like this with future expansions of ARR. It felt awesome getting access to these kinds of areas. I remember looking on search and seeing folks in these zones and feeling like this is something i've got to get access to, they are so cool being up there in these weird zones that I can't even pronounce lol, and I worked toward it until i got in.

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Originally Posted by GatoGrotto

So I've been playing a lot of FFXI while waiting for ARR beta to start and I had a sudden thought, "How amazing would it be to see an area like sky or sea with ARR's graphics engine?" Now, I was a die-hard FFXI fan for about 4 years, and even though abyssea and GoV parties really ruined the game for me I still find Sea to be one of the most incredible areas in any video game, even with XI's 10 year old graphics.

What I would love to see are areas similar to sky and sea, unlocked after progressing so far into the story missions, and have them be dedicated to end-game. FFXI pulled this off really well because you only had to do the missions and unlock the areas if you were interested in end-game. And I don't know about any of you but I like working for my end-game content, not just slapping a party together, going to the dungeon/primal fight, finishing or wiping, and then disbanding like is seen in so many modern MMOs. You miss out on that sense of community that playing in an MMO should give you. Besides not only does it add end-game content but it also adds to the feel of the storyline, especially in 11, being able to actually go to the places that are mentioned throughout the story was pretty badass.

The sad part about it though is I kinda don't think ARR will have stuff like this, mainly due the fact that they're focusing more on instanced end-game, and I think that's a big mistake. It's way too linear with instanced content, for example, you have the choice to run dungeons A, B, or C, you go finish the dungeon, and that's that. It's the same everytime you run it. With end-game zones though, like sky for example, it's more like, ok we can go farm these NMs and finish a genbu or byakko pop, or try and get both items for a seiryu/suzaku pop. Sea was the same way, but it even had an additional end-game zone inside of it. Both areas offer much more variety in how you want to progress over the course of several days, and you don't get burned out nearly as fast as you would grinding the same dungeons I think. These are just my opinions on the matter, but what do you guys think? Would you like to see unlocked areas as part of the storyline? And Yoshi-P, I trust you with ARR and think you're doing a great job, but if you see this post please, PLEASE, consider what I've said :D

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I think this is my favorite OP ever. I played and loved XI for 6.5 years. I have to hope and believe that we will get the same expansion treatment for XIV, and that we will get plenty of open world content, in addition to the abundant instanced content. I also love XIV and many of its differences/improvements over XI. Anything to add to the immersion and the community imo is the best ingredients for a game to be loved, played and subscribed to for years. If you don't feel like you are there, and if you don't feel like you are with friends, no matter how great the gameplay and/or story is you may have fun for a while but no one will stick around for long.

This is off topic from expansions and new areas, but there is one thing that I remember Yoshi saying in the final night Live letter that housing would be limited at first to encourage community building. Sheer brilliance in recognizing what really will continue to drive people to play for a very long time. A strong community is the number one aspect to build on. I bet everyone who played XI (perhaps any mmo?) would say the reason they kept playing so long is simply their friends.

yoshi-p said they be a sea and sky area for FFXIV i remember the old or maybe new dev team talking about a Castle in the sky. Yoshi-p said that people really enjoy sea area more but he enjoy sky so he may end up doing sky first then sea later so there you go.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Also Dynamis is still technically an instance, it's just that only one was available at a time. You had all the characteristics of an instance: other groups couldn't come in and join you or steal your stuff, the mobs were generated fresh each time, it was a totally separate zone, it was on a timer, etc.

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Actually I see Dynamis as another zone. And other groups could (and sometimes would!) come in anytime after entry if they got their hands on your hourglass. This actually happened to one of my dyna LS's twice in row when we (and every other major dyna shell) were spamming Dyna-Xarc. Things got kinda nasty when LSs started disregarding the Dynamis scheduler.

Multiple instances, whereby I imagine the term 'instance' is coming from, were never used for Dynamis, Einherjar, Salvage (I believe), etc in XI. A single zone (that was actually searchable from outside and inside the zone showing which group was using the zone) was used for each location/wing/tier or whatever, that would only refresh once it was empty. In some of them (ie Einherjar) you could actually still target (not-actionable) and see party members in the event, while standing outside. Unlike Nyzul, where there were multiple instances running at the same time, and seaching it would just list every who's running the instance at that time, with no way to separate who's in what instance with who. Anyway, I guess it's an arguement in semantics which isn't important, and I think we agree that we'd both like to see some more non-instanced content.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Hmmm, in this case, I don't know about that. As I said above, I would love to see this. But it doesn't really mesh with their stated vision. Accessibility is the hot word of the year for FFXIV:ARR, so restricted content like this is something I don't think they would agree with. Yoshi-P - admittedly over-quoted - said that they want this to be a themepark game. Themeparks rarely have a You-Must-Be-This-Tall... wait, bad analogy. Themeparks rarely have gated communities.

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Don't worry, this will not be a theme park by any means. SE always states that these kind of games can be played casually and you can get a lot done that way but make no mistake SE always makes their games very challenging and time consuming for those who want to achieve the most they can. The best things in the game will not come easy and will never be achieved whyle casually in a short period of time.

Ishguard, al'mihgo, and the garleans? Have you not followed any lore? I'm sorely behind on knowing whats going on and even i know there are areas they have yet to introduce...

@OP: You forget that in FFXI (specially in the case of CoP) you had zones that were designed for the story rather than the story designed around the zones. Most of those zones were too far out of the way to be of any real use to players at large.

In the case of Al'taieu and Tu'Lia, sure you had bosses that you could pop and fight the bosses out of order, but it wasn't that different than running a raid. You're putting too much value on being able to fight the bosses out of order and devaluing the fact that because instances are designed with the bosses in mind, the fights tend to be much more mechanically involved.

I'm not against having zones connected to endgame, but I am more in favor of world-relevant zones over story-relevant zones. This is not mentioning that with quests being one of the main ways to level in 2.0, you technically do get zones that are unlocked as you advance the story. This should not stop the devs from introducing well-designed and memorable zones, though.

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Originally Posted by GatoGrotto

What I would love to see are areas similar to sky and sea, unlocked after progressing so far into the story missions, and have them be dedicated to end-game. FFXI pulled this off really well because you only had to do the missions and unlock the areas if you were interested in end-game. And I don't know about any of you but I like working for my end-game content, not just slapping a party together, going to the dungeon/primal fight, finishing or wiping, and then disbanding like is seen in so many modern MMOs. You miss out on that sense of community that playing in an MMO should give you. Besides not only does it add end-game content but it also adds to the feel of the storyline, especially in 11, being able to actually go to the places that are mentioned throughout the story was pretty badass.

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THIS.

I'd love to have something like this, too. Finally gaining access to those areas felt great, and it actually gave end-game, you know, that end-game feeling, unlike pretty much every other game, where "end-game" is there as soon as you hit max or near max level and is basically the start of the game (which is kind of contradictory given the term "end-game"...).

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I honestly never really had a problem with CoP, but then again I ran the parties and found my own people. Sure there were times I got a horrible group and we wiped a lot but I still wouldn't trade that experience. It was fun, and I definitely hope they create areas that require party oriented storyline to be unlocked.

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^ I did CoP when getting off of the first 2 floors of Promyvion were near impossible as no one had any idea about anything. Aka in 2004.

I'm full in support of this as I love going through challenges and using storyline (with people, MMORPG remember.) and unlocking final areas. Zilart and CoP is why I felt like FFXI was actually a FF game. You don't just wander up to an airship, talk to an NPC and go straight to the Red Moon, nor do you go straight to the northern crater in FFVII not to mention I'm pretty sure you don't talk to Queen Brahne and get sent to the Crystal World, especially "by yourself."

The only issue as stated is when most are said and done with it, but the problem with that mainly is in comparison to FFXI, XI added a new expansion every year basically, Zilart in 2003, CoP in 2004, ToAU in 2006 and WotG in 2007, so people who moved on went to the next line of missions and new people were stuck. XIV we don't even know if they'll have one expansion (for argument sake) or updates that are expansive enough to push everyone forward like that so there's a good chance the same issue wouldn't happen.

In XIV the only real issue was trying to do early GC missions where no one liked helping people, THAT is a more likely problem than from a game design perspective, you can offer 8 million gil to repeat it and people still won't help after awhile.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

^ I did CoP when getting off of the first 2 floors of Promyvion were near impossible as no one had any idea about anything. Aka in 2004.

I'm full in support of this as I love going through challenges and using storyline (with people, MMORPG remember.) and unlocking final areas. Zilart and CoP is why I felt like FFXI was actually a FF game. You don't just wander up to an airship, talk to an NPC and go straight to the Red Moon, nor do you go straight to the northern crater in FFVII not to mention I'm pretty sure you don't talk to Queen Brahne and get sent to the Crystal World, especially "by yourself."

The only issue as stated is when most are said and done with it, but the problem with that mainly is in comparison to FFXI, XI added a new expansion every year basically, Zilart in 2003, CoP in 2004, ToAU in 2006 and WotG in 2007, so people who moved on went to the next line of missions and new people were stuck. XIV we don't even know if they'll have one expansion (for argument sake) or updates that are expansive enough to push everyone forward like that so there's a good chance the same issue wouldn't happen.

In XIV the only real issue was trying to do early GC missions where no one liked helping people, THAT is a more likely problem than from a game design perspective, you can offer 8 million gil to repeat it and people still won't help after awhile.

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The biggest problem I have with XIV currently story line wise is I don't feel challenged. There's nothing the game has that reminds me of doing the "Airship" fight or hell even those stupid pots in Sea. Van Darnus was fairly "average" in terms of difficulty, and the riding the airship to the final encounter like you said was sort of dull. Perhaps it would have been cooler to fly that pile of rocks and have us go through a raid or something then fight a beef van darnus. Then again obviously given the overall situation with XIV and ARR, we all know that never would have happened.

Not everyone will agree, but personally for my story content I want the highest difficulty version first. I don't like running through easy mode, then hard mode. Stop wasting my time and let me choose hard first (betters my experience). Then let me unlock future areas that have NMs and/or end game content. That's what I hope to see in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

@OP: You forget that in FFXI (specially in the case of CoP) you had zones that were designed for the story rather than the story designed around the zones. Most of those zones were too far out of the way to be of any real use to players at large.

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What you forget is that the majority of zones in XI all were designed that were based on story elements as well. In CoP there were some zones purely made for story purposes, but that was outweighed by the regular zones introduced. The only story related zones are:

R. Site A01/B01
Sacrarium (doubles for NM fights and subligar farming)
Phomina Aquaducts (though doubles for other stuff like subligar farming)
Promyvions
Pso`Xja (doubles for other stuff)

This is ignoring the BCNM areas and regarding the capped period. Otherwise a lot of zones were designed to be unlocked and explored through the story then later on your own (you know, like a FF game tends to do.) Everything in XI was world relevant and story relevant because the lore and storylines fit into the world like a good RPG.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

What you forget is that the majority of zones in XI all were designed that were based on story elements as well.

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There's a difference between a zone that fits into the story and a zone that is designed for the story. Zi'tah and Bibiki Bay are good examples of the former. Attowa Chasm and Riverne being of the latter. I'm against the latter while being for the former.

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Otherwise a lot of zones were designed to be unlocked and explored through the story then later on your own (you know, like a FF game tends to do.) Everything in XI was world relevant and story relevant because the lore and storylines fit into the world like a good RPG.

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As always, you and I are not going to agree on that. What CoP did is use the tried and true "cluster of zones" that is typical of an expansion with a couple of scraps added to the main continent. Problem is that they created the zones exclusively for the story, and it shows when there is no real reason to be in the Archipelago outside of the CoP missions barring one or two extra things like subligar farming. Even if you were to go back in time and convince Tanaka to not put in the three promyvion requirement, the zones as designed are not inviting. You wouldn't see the kind of shift to the Archipelago as you did when Bibiki Bay opened up, much less the shift to Bafflau Thickets when TAU hit.

It's good to see that most of you agree with this topic. The storyline is really what makes FFXI and XIV unique from other MMOs, they incorporate the stories of the game with the content so well. It would be a shame to see ARR follow in the footsteps of today's mainstream MMO where you really don't even know why you're going to an area or running a dungeon in the first place and the sense of playing an rpg is lost. Iirc though GW2 did an open world event recently that opened a new dungeon after the players beat it. I would love to see stuff like this more often, get the players to work together to get something that benefits everybody.

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Originally Posted by GatoGrotto

It's good to see that most of you agree with this topic. The storyline is really what makes FFXI and XIV unique from other MMOs, they incorporate the stories of the game with the content so well. It would be a shame to see ARR follow in the footsteps of today's mainstream MMO where you really don't even know why you're going to an area or running a dungeon in the first place and the sense of playing an rpg is lost. Iirc though GW2 did an open world event recently that opened a new dungeon after the players beat it. I would love to see stuff like this more often, get the players to work together to get something that benefits everybody.

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There are other players in GW2? I stopped playing it because there not being anybody around ever in the lvl 30 and below zones lol the stories were also very lackluster, disjointed and boring.

I love the FF storytelling and I hope it stays. If you dont like it you can skip cs or enter thru it fast but I know alot of people who love it and it makes the game worthwhile. Not only do you care more about the game but you start to care more for the NPCs. How many of us cried when we though ol' Lou died to a megaflare to the face? Or when Aerith was run thru by Seph, or the tragic heartrenching scene that was the end of crisis core. Dont get that in many games and certainly not in other MMOs. If there is one thing SE excels at, its storytelling.

I just wanted to say something.

Walk of Echoes

PS> Only FF game I ever cried at was ten, at the end. Probably because it was my first play through and i read every word of it. Felt a little like Tidus back in those days...

For it to be recognisable as a Final Fantasy game, it needs to have certain areas that you can only access when you reach certain points in the story. Even games outside of FF don't let you access all of the areas all at once. It adds to that sense of progression and, for many, it doubles up as an achievement of sorts when you finally step foot into the area you've long heard of.

I would like to see all zones like that also being used for more than just driving along the story. There were many zones in XI that looked great and the music for some of them were equally so. But for the most part, there wasn't any real reason to go to them once you'd finished what story there was to do there. There needs to be something interesting and exciting in every area/zone that gets added in and made to feel like a part of the world and not just some tacked on area for the purpose of getting to one or two NMs/bosses (outside of the areas which are designed to be the throne of said boss).